Hard mode for core story

Watching wooden potatoes playthrough of the story has been highly interesting on the account of all the trivia and npc details and references he includes. However he alludes at one point to how facerollingly easy it is to get through the main story, and how little it feels like an rpg with important levelling choices, and more just a railroaded ride.

I'd suggest adding some difficulty settings to the story instances. easy is what it would be now, but for new players there should be a choice of medium. Enough challenge to keep people form falling asleep, but not enough to frustrate. Once the main story is completed once, a hard and perhaps even later an expert/impossible mode should come out, making the repeating of story experiences on new characters less of a chore and more of a personal challenge.

To go even further, completing these modes could even have achievements and rewards attached to them.

One small design flaw could be players making the hard modes easier by first ignoring the story and getting gear that will make them stronger in the story despite scaled stats, but in my opinion players should be allowed to do this if they really really want to.

Difficulty settings for the vanilla story instances aren't a bad idea, but I don't see them being implemented anytime soon. Personally, I don't see the vanilla story being easy as a problem. It being facerollingly easy depends highly on your knowledge with the profession you're playing and how you craft gear and builds with it. Also, the vanilla game is F2P, thus allowing new players to learn how to play the game. Besides, look at Heart of Thorns and how the exact opposite happened.

I don't think Anet's going to touch legacy content aka things available for free accounts.

@Fipmip.7219 said:Watching wooden potatoes playthrough of the story has been highly interesting on the account of all the trivia and npc details and references he includes. However he alludes at one point to how facerollingly easy it is to get through the main story, and how little it feels like an rpg with important levelling choices, and more just a railroaded ride.

I'd suggest adding some difficulty settings to the story instances. easy is what it would be now, but for new players there should be a choice of medium. Enough challenge to keep people form falling asleep, but not enough to frustrate. Once the main story is completed once, a hard and perhaps even later an expert/impossible mode should come out, making the repeating of story experiences on new characters less of a chore and more of a personal challenge.

To go even further, completing these modes could even have achievements and rewards attached to them.

One small design flaw could be players making the hard modes easier by first ignoring the story and getting gear that will make them stronger in the story despite scaled stats, but in my opinion players should be allowed to do this if they really really want to.

Sure difficulty setting is fine, but no exclusive rewards or achievements. You want challenge right? Not exclusive rewards and bragging rights?

Just take of your gear, weapon only, done. We used to run low level dungeons in one of the game I played, naked. Was fun to get wiped to a boss we could one shot.

I had played Guild Wars for years, and had no issues after all that time in that game. But, I remember, back at launch and for some time after, how difficult some of the story instances were in this game. Of course, they are 'face-roll' easy now, but they sure weren't back then, when I didn't know 1/50th of what I know now. I think the Core Personal Story is fine; remember...it's new players that play that content, as well as the Core maps. Don't forget we all were new and learning when we started.

I don't think the Core Personal Story will be changed much, if at all. 'Challenging' content is the newer L80 content, which newer players who boost to L80 have quite a difficult time with, if the posts we see on the forums are any indication.

Perhaps, we, as veterans, forget the challenge some of those old instances provided back then.

@YoukiNeko.6047 said:

Sure difficulty setting is fine, but no exclusive rewards or achievements. You want challenge right? Not exclusive rewards and bragging rights?

I think there should be a reward at the end for the simple reason that people expect such things. Nothing too crazy, perhaps a title or a unique skin. Something that makes the effort feel all the sweeter once the end is reached. I'd feel fairly cheated if I had no commemorative aspect to completing a long and difficult challenge, especially when the game rewards you for every other such feat.

@phs.6089 said:Just take of your gear, weapon only, done. We used to run low level dungeons in one of the game I played, naked. Was fun to get wiped to a boss we could one shot.

The point is to improve the solo experience of levelling, choosing traits, skills and making gear choices as you progress through the story. sure I could strip naked and run into the final battle. I could also ignore the story and get max traits and gear before starting it. but both would defeat the purpose of role playing in what is supposed to be an mmorpg.

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I had played Guild Wars for years, and had no issues after all that time in that game. But, I remember, back at launch and for some time after, how difficult some of the story instances were in this game. Of course, they are 'face-roll' easy now, but they sure weren't back then, when I didn't know 1/50th of what I know now. I think the Core Personal Story is fine; remember...it's new players that play that content, as well as the Core maps. Don't forget we all were new and learning when we started.

I don't think the Core Personal Story will be changed much, if at all. 'Challenging' content is the newer L80 content, which newer players who boost to L80 have quite a difficult time with, if the posts we see on the forums are any indication.

Perhaps, we, as veterans, forget the challenge some of those old instances provided back then.

Yes, I took that into consideration in my original post. unlocking hard mode for people that finish the game is the suggestion here.

@Fipmip.7219 said:

@YoukiNeko.6047 said:

Sure difficulty setting is fine, but no exclusive rewards or achievements. You want challenge right? Not exclusive rewards and bragging rights?

@phs.6089 said:Just take of your gear, weapon only, done. We used to run low level dungeons in one of the game I played, naked. Was fun to get wiped to a boss we could one shot.

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I had played Guild Wars for years, and had no issues after all that time in that game. But, I remember, back at launch and for some time after, how difficult some of the story instances were in this game. Of course, they are 'face-roll' easy now, but they sure weren't back then, when I didn't know 1/50th of what I know now. I think the Core Personal Story is fine; remember...it's new players that play that content, as well as the Core maps. Don't forget we all were new and learning when we started.

I don't think the Core Personal Story will be changed much, if at all. 'Challenging' content is the newer L80 content, which newer players who boost to L80 have quite a difficult time with, if the posts we see on the forums are any indication.

Perhaps, we, as veterans, forget the challenge some of those old instances provided back then.

Well the challenge should be your reward or else you just want new exclusive rewards.When I decide to do a CS:GO round with bots, the game doesn't reward me in anyway if the bots are set to the highest difficulty.So why should you get rewarded more than the most players that find the content challenging enough?

Back in the days when I wanted bigger challenge from the dungeons I usually tried to solo them. But I did it for the fun of it.So you can easily wear all whites on the level that the story unlocks with lets say only turrets as engi or spirit weapons as guardian.

Balthazar deserved a cm tbh while ps wont really benefit from it.

I totally agree with @Inculpatus cedo.9234 . When I did the personal story for the first time, with bad gear and without knowing well my class (that I still don't know...) and what to do, I died many times. I recently played the last but one chapter and killed the boss in 15 seconds and I was baffled to think that I spent something like 5-6 minutes the first time.Also, apparently ArenaNet said that it's too difficult to add the replayability of the personal story (I once asked because I wished I could replay it, like the other stories). You can't put achievements on a content that cannot be replayed.

Would like to see this, mostly because I think the game would benefit from having some/more difficulty settings, considering how people have such vastly different proficiency with the combat/class/build mechanics of this game.

But I'm fairly certain ANet won't do this, they've indicated in the past that making the Personal Story re-playable is very difficult/not worth it for them. And they've avoided changing things in old core material as much as possible.

If it is difficult to create mechanics around replaying the personal story I understand. But I'm talking about when you create a new character and decide to get through the story again. In addition to seeing what you might have missed, I want to look forward to actually fighting with the encounters rather than just looking at it as a chore to get to the next bit. furthermore I have witnessed my friends enthusiasm for the details and combat system deteriorate with the repeated easy encounters.

@YoukiNeko.6047 said:

Well the challenge should be your reward or else you just want new exclusive rewards.When I decide to do a CS:GO round with bots, the game doesn't reward me in anyway if the bots are set to the highest difficulty.So why should you get rewarded more than the most players that find the content challenging enough?

Back in the days when I wanted bigger challenge from the dungeons I usually tried to solo them. But I did it for the fun of it.So you can easily wear all whites on the level that the story unlocks with lets say only turrets as engi or spirit weapons as guardian.

I don't, actually. I'm suggesting both the challenge and reward. I'd still be happy if Anet decided to add only the challenge, but in my opinion it would be improved further still with the reward. It's that simple.

Also saying that most players find the content challenging enough is unfounded. As I said the reward should be included because the game would be inconsistent if it didn't, which would probably upset some people reaching the end of hard mode only to find there's no lasting achievement, unlike what happens when you complete hard mode fractals or hard mode dungeons

CSGO does not reward you at all for playing with pffline bots, hard or easy. what point are you trying to make here? CSGO is a game that rewards people the better they do, and is based around getting better at playing the game. GW2 is a game that rewards people in a similar way, with higher level and difficulty challenges leading to typically better rewards, in general.

@Fipmip.7219 said:If it is difficult to create mechanics around replaying the personal story I understand. But I'm talking about when you create a new character and decide to get through the story again. In addition to seeing what you might have missed, I want to look forward to actually fighting with the encounters rather than just looking at it as a chore to get to the next bit. furthermore I have witnessed my friends enthusiasm for the details and combat system deteriorate with the repeated easy encounters.

@YoukiNeko.6047 said:

Well the challenge should be your reward or else you just want new exclusive rewards.When I decide to do a CS:GO round with bots, the game doesn't reward me in anyway if the bots are set to the highest difficulty.So why should you get rewarded more than the most players that find the content challenging enough?

Back in the days when I wanted bigger challenge from the dungeons I usually tried to solo them. But I did it for the fun of it.So you can easily wear all whites on the level that the story unlocks with lets say only turrets as engi or spirit weapons as guardian.

I did give CSGO as example because you actually get something from playing against harder bots - you learn more about the game.GW2 personal story is mostly lore, with the latest LS adding more challenging mechanics, but still it was mostly about the lore, not the rewards or anything else.

You want challenge mode - and I'm okay with that, then again you can make it challenging for yourself quite easily.But instead of handicapping yourself to make it more challenging you want the devs to add difficulty settings and then even rewards for them.How adding more exclusive rewards help the game? We already have raid skins and legendary armor for that exclusive feeling.

And about the players having problem with the content, well just look around the forums. Players still have trouble with most LS bosses (even after some of them were nerfed.)

So while I'm okay with ANet adding difficulty settings, I'm against them adding special rewards for the higher difficultly.The rewards should be the same no matter the difficulty (and players should receive the reward only once - no matter what difficulty they decided to play it).

I have to ask. Since we have fractals and raids why don't you just stick to them for challenging content and unique rewards?

@YoukiNeko.6047 said:But instead of handicapping yourself to make it more challenging you want the devs to add difficulty settings and then even rewards for them.

Again this ridiculous argument, and the answer is still the same: handicapping yourself doesn't create more interesting/exciting mechanics, it only turns something boring into something frustrating.

About the actual topic now, I doubt they will touch any old content again. If you want a more challenging story play the expansions or the living story. Since story cannot be replayed for technical reasons, making changes to it (and adding new rewards and achievements no less) is pointless. Not really worth it.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@YoukiNeko.6047 said:But instead of handicapping yourself to make it more challenging you want the devs to add difficulty settings and then even rewards for them.

Handicapping yourself can be fun. If you can't figure it how, then too bad for you.WoW for example have some pretty nice Iron Man challenge rules why don't you try some of them in GW2?Or is it too hard to play outside the theme park?

@"YoukiNeko.6047" said:Handicapping yourself can be fun. If you can't figure it how, then too bad for you.

No it can't be fun handicapping myself because it doesn't give my enemies more exciting mechanics to deal with. I get my fun from content by dealing with complex mechanics that require me to think and use my brain, use the proper skills and builds to beat them, not by making mobs take longer to kill or deal more damage. The pre-Heart of Thorns high end Fractals were full of 1-shot-kill damage sponges with infinite amount of hit points, I'd never call that "challenging", engaging or fun to play (thank god they changed that). How are people finding this kind of artificial "difficulty increase" fun is beyond me.

What I find fun in this kind of discussion is how I should "handicap" myself and use sub-optimal gear/build to make the content more challenging, while those struggling with the content can't use optimal gear/build to succeed in it and demand it being lowered in difficulty because they find it hard to play.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"YoukiNeko.6047" said:Handicapping yourself

can

be fun. If you can't figure it how, then too bad for you.

Have you tried soloing AC? Or using non meta build?If fun for you is using meta builds and burning content using guides, then yes the game is boring and it would never be challenging.But then again even Dark Souls is boring once you learn the basic patterns and timings.

I've actually had fun trying to solo different bosses or use strange builds/stats combos.Did you find Liadri the Concealing Dark fun?

@"YoukiNeko.6047" said:Or using non meta build?

Why would I use a build that is not appropriate for the content I'm playing just to "make it harder"? The game gives you all those tools to play with and you want to trash them to make it "more challenging"? This is the equivalent to the "get gud" argument that appears when someone tells you the game is too hard, only this time you say "get bad"! If the game is too easy for you, "get bad!" And has the exact same impact as the "get gud" and "l2p" arguments on those other threads: approximately zero.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"YoukiNeko.6047" said:Or using non meta build?

Just because a build is not meta doesn't mean it's bad. "get gud" and "l2p" are sometimes actually valid.If you can't figure for yourself how to make the content more challenging, then you are bound to get bored pretty fast.Because the devs can put only a limited amount of content targeted at a much wider audience.The reason why many games are trying to offload the content generation to the players and reason why Minecraft is so successful, is because the players are given toolsand they can do whatever they want with them. In theme park games like GW2, WoW, Call of Duty you need to think outside the box or else you will get bored way to fast.

I've already answered this partially.

@Fipmip.7219 said:

The point is to improve the solo experience of levelling, choosing traits, skills and making gear choices as you progress through the story. sure I could strip naked and run into the final battle. I could also ignore the story and get max traits and gear before starting it. but both would defeat the purpose of role playing in what is supposed to be an mmorpg.

Fractals raids, expansions and LW are end game content. This post is about the character building and the rpg and replayability experience. If I build a new character one way to get to 80 is to replay the story. This is an experience that can be improved in multiple ways, for instance adding challenge settings, and even some rewards for completing them.

I've played this game for a while and am currently playing through with some friends that I have introduced to the game. As we churn through the content at basically running speed I can feel the pressure of just wanting to get to the end and witness the story, and then get to the interesting challenging stuff like dungeons and expansions. What do you want me to tell them? just remove the gear you've been getting to make it harder? Is this what we have to do to make the game fun?

You can't tell an entire demographic to just 'go make your own fun.' what if the game had no dungeons or raids, would you tell people to just do meta events in nothing but white gear?

@YoukiNeko.6047 said:If you can't figure for yourself how to make the content more challenging, then you are bound to get bored pretty fast.

Or expect the developers to release ever more challenging content, without the player actually needing to do anything. Fortunately the developers at Arenanet continue to improve their game and make it progressively more challenging.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@YoukiNeko.6047 said:If you can't figure for yourself how to make the content more challenging, then you are bound to get bored pretty fast.

I see. Well then lets hope they keep delivering.

Well its not so far fetched they added Hard Mode in Guildwars after it was like 4 years old. Changed the game so anywhere you could pick hard mode or normal mode except pvp type stuff of course. Not sure how it would work here though since Guildwars is all instanced except for towns and outposts. I guess all instanced content could have that choice.

Just gonna remind people that the game used to be quite a bit harder, yet ANet has trivialized a lot of it over the years.

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I had played Guild Wars for years, and had no issues after all that time in that game. But, I remember, back at launch and for some time after, how difficult some of the story instances were in this game. Of course, they are 'face-roll' easy now, but they sure weren't back then, when I didn't know 1/50th of what I know now. I think the Core Personal Story is fine; remember...it's new players that play that content, as well as the Core maps. Don't forget we all were new and learning when we started.

I don't think the Core Personal Story will be changed much, if at all. 'Challenging' content is the newer L80 content, which newer players who boost to L80 have quite a difficult time with, if the posts we see on the forums are any indication.

Perhaps, we, as veterans, forget the challenge some of those old instances provided back then.

When I first played Guild Wars in the summer of 2005, I somehow managed to beat Prophecies and using only henchmen (with the exception of that one mission I absolutely had to group up with other players, Thirsty River I think it was). Armor? Well, I did manage to get a set of Elite Noble for my mesmer, but I never added any sigils or runes, simply because I didn't know what to do with them. However, I plodded along, being very careful to not over-aggro, until I finally beat the game and talked to everyone at the end celebration. Managed to complete Sorrow's Furnace that way too. It was pretty difficult, to me anyways.

It was only later when someone explained to me what sigils and runes do, that I realized just how ignorant I was, and then amazed that I got anything done at all.

So yes, I agree that the Core Personal Story is fine as it is.