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Downed state - Nerf it ?


Caedmon.6798

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Are you EVER going to take a serious look at downed state and how much it carries ? I can't count the times i'm fighting 2vs 5+ where downed state is carrying so hard because ressing is faster than finishing for some reason,and cleaving isn't enough either alot of the times.And the ridiculous 4x downed in one minute,get rid of it.All that downed state does is making people rely on others to back them up in a fight where they went down 3x and still because of that stupid mechanic able to win a fight they should have lost.Downed state is for casuals and it only shines when you outman the other side.Do something about this ridiculous carrying mechanic already.By reducing the res speed and making it so people can go down once but the 2nd time theyre dead.

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@Hot Boy.7138 said:i like downed state. It's fair because you also have a downstate, everyone has a downstate. I'm not gonna lie, it can be annoying. But most of the time it's exciting trying to stop the enemy from ressing. I find that it adds to the action, intensity, and desperation of trying to survive.

Its far from being fair because it only favors the side with more people,hence the post.When you fight more people it can be nearly impossible to finish off people and having to rely on downing them 4x to fully finish them off.When i go down myself i know i lost,i dont even wanna be ressed and should be dead.But i assume most people playing wvw rely on this mechanic anyways,very exciting gameplay,indeed.

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It's annoying if you down multiple people but can't cleave through their healing from allies, ultimately just killing you by having a higher collective health pool in small scale or solo fights, but it should exist. The no downstate week showed us how much fun not having downstate can be however and in the end I'll have to agree that it could do with a slight nerf.. Reduce downstate HP so that you can get killed by a single person more easily. Only thing this will do is make situations where you get killed before you even get into the proper downstate happen at a lower player count, but I think that might just be okay.

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@Blocki.4931 said:It's annoying if you down multiple people but can't cleave through their healing from allies, ultimately just killing you by having a higher collective health pool in small scale or solo fights, but it should exist. The no downstate week showed us how much fun not having downstate can be however and in the end I'll have to agree that it could do with a slight nerf.. Reduce downstate HP so that you can get killed by a single person more easily. Only thing this will do is make situations where you get killed before you even get into the proper downstate happen at a lower player count, but I think that might just be okay.

Im asking for a nerf,not the complete removal of it because i know that's never gonna happen with the finishers we have available.If you ever roamed you know what i'm talking about,and it does need a serious nerf.

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@Hot Boy.7138 said:i like downed state. It's fair because you also have a downstate, everyone has a downstate. I'm not gonna lie, it can be annoying. But most of the time it's exciting trying to stop the enemy from ressing. I find that it adds to the action, intensity, and desperation of trying to survive.

It's not very fair at all as it favors the side with more players. I get that it is has been here since the beginning, and probably won't leave aside from some more event weeks...but when I 1v2 and down someone, then start stomping before or at the same time as they get rezzed and the downed gets rez'd before the stomp finishes...feels bad. Especially when the person rezzing is playing a build that you know doesn't use any healing power...

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Cant win a 2v5 which is entirerly possible with good teamwork and stomp skills?

Bring 3 people.

Cant win 3v5 which is even more possible?

Bring 4 people.

Oh they brought another 2 instead so its a 4v7 now and you still cant win?

Bring 5 people.

That's not something unbalanced or broken - that's how WvW works. That's how we get massive battles. If people just won at a whim because "we're better than casuals", what's the point of fighting?

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I think rez speed should be reduced overall. If someone starts stomping at the same time as one player starts rezzing - the stomp should finish before the rez. If 2 people are rezzing, fine, let their "roaming" group continue to be carried by downstate. They dedicated 2 players to out rez 1 stomping player, fair enough.

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If the no downed state wVW weekend has shown us something, is that it should not be removed.

But we could use some adjustments.

Some are way stronger than others. Has anyone ever survived a fight thanks to Vengeful Blast? But then you have skills like Life Leech that have won fights solo after being downed.Symbol of Judgment can revive way too fast, and it appears to be affected by symbol traits and even healing power. There should definitely a trial for Downed state and its skills ignoring player stats and having fixed behaviors.Rangers are particularly obnoxious. Why are pets trying to revive again after you interrupt, launch away or defeat them? Lick Wounds should have to recharge and be used again for the pet to attempt to revive again. And they can even use pet attacks. ALL profession mechanics should be disabled while downed, a pet should not be able to use their F2 skills, the UI isn't even there. Yet rangers can use those skills.

And there could be more ways to finish fast, like the daredevil physical elite. 8 of the professions are missing healing and elite skills for their core skill sets to have the full 6 skills (1 healing, 4 utility, 1 elite), it would be a nice idea to create more elites that can finish enemies. For example, a warrior elite shout could be ""You're All Alone!", that knocks down, cripples and gives weakness to the affected enemy, and finishes or damages downed enemies, but when it finishes an enemy it gets double recharge to compensate, or it could have 2 charges and require and consume both to finish an enemy.Jade Wind or Chaotic Release could deal bonus damage to downed enemies, or Embrace the Darkness could reduce the revive speed for downed enemies next to the revenant.There could be something like an elite engineer gadget that gets attached to an enemy as an effect, and when the timer runs out, the effect explodes, launching up the enemy, and if that enemy goes down before time expires, the effect explodes right away, greatly damaging the downed enemy or instantly finishing them.There could be an elite ranger trap that triggers one of those huge swinging logs with spikes (you can see some in the Lake Doric puzzle under Noran's Safe Room). The trap would swing 3 times, and the 3rd hit would defeat anyone downed.Elementalist could have an Arcane Devastation arcane elite that would create a thin pillar of reddish light for a few seconds, followed by a mass of energy falling on the target area for massive damage that is always critical, and that deals increased damage or instantly finishes to downed enemies.

And so on.

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@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:It's annoying if you down multiple people but can't cleave through their healing from allies, ultimately just killing you by having a higher collective health pool in small scale or solo fights, but it should exist. The no downstate week showed us how much fun not having downstate can be however and in the end I'll have to agree that it could do with a slight nerf.. Reduce downstate HP so that you can get killed by a single person more easily. Only thing this will do is make situations where you get killed before you even get into the proper downstate happen at a lower player count, but I think that might just be okay.

Im asking for a nerf,not the complete removal of it because i know that's never gonna happen with the finishers we have available.If you ever roamed you know what i'm talking about,and it does need a serious nerf.

Never said it had to be removed, just that it gave us a good taste of what could be. I was expecting some follow up changes back then but it never happened, so who knows

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Made this a year ago after experiencing the "magic" of downed state...

I am in the "7 seconds of downed state and then dead if not rallied" camp.

Its an obnoxious mechanic that was put in place to protect the fragile existence of subpar players. I understand and appreciate that. But its time to take the training wheels off.

My suggestion is to make downed state scale down based on wvw rank so new players are not being horribly abused.

wvw rank:0-100: 75% downed state hp, 4 times= dead, 20 sec duration cap101-200: 50% downed state hp, 3 times= dead, 15 sec durartion cap201-300: 25% downed state hp, 2 times= dead, 10 sec duration cap

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@"Justine.6351" said:Made this a year ago after experiencing the "magic" of downed state...

I am in the "7 seconds of downed state and then dead if not rallied" camp.

Its an obnoxious mechanic that was put in place to protect the fragile existence of subpar players. I understand and appreciate that. But its time to take the training wheels off.

My suggestion is to make downed state scale down based on wvw rank so new players are not being horribly abused.

wvw rank:0-100: 75% downed state hp, 4 times= dead, 20 sec duration cap101-200: 50% downed state hp, 3 times= dead, 15 sec durartion cap201-300: 25% downed state hp, 2 times= dead, 10 sec duration cap

Lol Justine that's a great example of what i mean.

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Yeah. The blobs and unskilled will cry as loud as they did on the last thread, about how they "need" downstate. I suck and I think it should be removed. It is a crutch for the unskilled. The blob insta-ressing itself does not make for skilled game play and it isn't making those players any better. If they want to get better, and not have to run across the map, change their build or simply get better.

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I'm in the make it scale off the number of allies and enemies in the area camp. For every enemy in the area (let's say 2000 unit radius from the downed player), you get +10% downed state hp (with a maximum cap of 95%). For every ally in the area (same 2000 unit radius) you get -10% downed state hp (with a cap at 5%). Even fights are not affected.

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@Shining One.1635 said:I'm in the make it scale off the number of allies and enemies in the area camp. For every enemy in the area (let's say 2000 unit radius from the downed player), you get +10% downed state hp (with a maximum cap of 95%). For every ally in the area (same 2000 unit radius) you get -10% downed state hp (with a cap at 5%). Even fights are not affected.

Overall res speed just needs to be reduced and the amount of times someone can go down in one minute.Maybe also add something as doing more damage to downed players,since theyre downed and can't really defend themselves anyway,for easier cleaving.This all doesn't apply to blobbing offcourse,it's strictly the issue in roam/small scale fights which i think anet is overlooking.

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@"Dawdler.8521" said:Cant win a 2v5 which is entirerly possible with good teamwork and stomp skills?

Bring 3 people.

Cant win 3v5 which is even more possible?

Bring 4 people.

Oh they brought another 2 instead so its a 4v7 now and you still cant win?

Bring 5 people.

That's not something unbalanced or broken - that's how WvW works. That's how we get massive battles. If people just won at a whim because "we're better than casuals", what's the point of fighting?

to win? this logic is really bad, you know.

by saying this you effectively mean that the point of fighting is just to bring more and more people. ??

fighting should be fair. I immediately assume everyone who defends downedstate are casual noobs who never leave spawn without at least 5 other people to insta ress them when they "die"

strength in numbers should be enough by itself.

here's an analogy for you:

those that make 250000$ per year pay 5% income tax, but those that make 20000$ a year pay 95% income tax. does that sound fair to you? should those who already have so much get to have it easier even though they already make so much?? no.

so why should the smaller group have less of a chance for OTHER that the fact that they have less players?? uneven matchups happen all the time in roaming, guild v guild and zerg fighting.

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We had a 2v5 today in WvW. The FB rezbot got all 4 of them up again two times. 8 rezzes. When you fight 2v5 (and these 5 have even a healer) you can't save skills for a FB rezz-prevention. It was so ridiculous I couldn't even rage against it.

The no-downstate event was the best thing this game has seen so far!

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