Overhaul to support core ranger to be wanted in squads and WvW — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Overhaul to support core ranger to be wanted in squads and WvW

anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭
edited September 13, 2018 in Ranger

Ranger had a limited support options back in the day. Sadly the visual noise and some other unknown circumstances made Anet to remove that opportunity. Having the other two medium classes filling the niches or burst damage and tank, core ranger could fill somehow the niche with some support capabilities for teams.

Trait line

Nature Magic.
Trait line is redefined grouping the traits to avoid overstacking effects and some traits replaced to define the trait line as team support.
Fortifying Bond trait becomes baseline to core ranger

Minor

Define the trait line as team support.

  • Rejuvenation: you and up 5 allies in 300 radius gain regeneration(5s) when you suffer a damaging condition (bleeding, confusion, poison, torment, burning) ICD 10s
  • Spirited Arrival: It grants Vigor and Protection to nearby allies when swap pets.
  • Lingering Magic: increased attibute to the ranger: +240 concentration. Pet increased boon duration: 20%

Adept

Oriented to provide team sustain.

  • Bountiful Defense: You and your pet gain damage reduction for each boon the ranger has. 1% by boon.
  • Windborne Notes. 20% CD reduction. Both Warhorn skills apply regeneration to nearby allies.
  • Invigorating Bond.

Master.

  • Evasive Purity
  • Instinctive Reaction: ( ICD 20 secs ) Ranger gain quickness when using Heal skill. Gain healing power based in vitality (5%) and toughness (5%). Quickness is precasted when the heal skills is used. The idea is to make the heal skill to cast faster so is more difficult to interrupt.
  • Spirits Bound. Spirits can not move anymore. AoE of passives radius increased to 1000 units. Increased allies affected to 10. Active Radius increased to 600. CD redution to 20 secs (Designed to keep the functionality in stanced content while allowing baseline mobility at the cost of diminished effects)

Grandmaster

This block would be more focused in the offensive support capabilities limited to specific situations .

  • Bountiful Hunter increased damage by 1% for each different boon the ranger has.
  • Protective Ward
  • Nature's Vengeance: Trait is changed to provide additional effects on hit to add offensive capabilities. 6 charges every 6 seconds. 1 charge is consumed by each hit.
    • Water Spirits. Cleanse 1 condition.
    • Stone spirit . Apply slow (3s)
    • Frost Spirit. Increased damage 10%
    • Storm Spirit. Apply 2 vulnerability(10s)
    • Sun Spirit . Apply burn(5s)
    • Life Spirit. Apply resistance(1s)

Skills

Spirits.

Spirits are reworked to look like floating small light balls called Spirit Wisps. This is to reduce visual noise as those also allow to ignore terrain while floating around the ranger.
They follow the ranger baseline. Spririts have 30s CD except the Life spirits which has 60s. The Spirits are designed to be a ranged AoE solution for the ranger.
Spirits last 60 seconds or until used the Active skill which sacrifices them . Spirits can be killed, they possess the equivalent to 2K armor and 20K hp.
As a gameplay change the spirits are not offensive by default, effects trigger when struck . This is so to avoid over buffing ranger using offensive traitlines and spirits while keeping the core functionality.

Pasives: Radius 400 affects up to 5 allies. 1 application every 6 seconds.
It applies 6 charges that last 6 seconds, which are consumed everytime the ranger is struck. The boon is applied every 6 seconds to 400 radius around the ranger.

Actives: 900 Ranged ground target AoE Radius 300. The wisp is launch like a projectile as such may be destroyed or reflected. They benefit from ranger unblockable effect thou

Spirits Wisps are different colors:

  • Water: blue
  • Stone: brown
  • Frost: white
  • Storm: violet
  • Sun: yellow
  • Life: green

Passives:

Consume 1 stack when struck.

  • Water: Heal when struck 1050(0.4)
  • Stone: Apply protection(3s)
  • Frost: Apply chilled(3s) to foes that attack you
  • Storm: apply superspeed(3s)
  • Sun: apply vigor(5s).
  • Life : Apply stability(1s).

Actives.

Removed pulses from actives. Actives should be explosions like of freed energy from the Wisp. Actives scale with ranger's stats. Actives can't crit. Actives affect up to 5 foes.

  • Aqua Surge Additionally cleanses 3 conditions to each ally.
  • Frost Snap Apply chilled(10s) damage (1.6)
  • Stone Spirit: Tectonic Blast: Knockdown(2s) and 5 bleeding(12s). Damage (1.2)
  • Call lighting Damage ( 1.8 )
  • Solar Flare
  • Life Spirit: Entangle Entangle additionally applies Poison(7s) each pulse. Entangle does not apply direct damage anymore.

Weapons.

Warhorn

Small rework to empower the utility skill of Hunter's Call.

  • Hunter's Call Rework to become a 400 radius 1200 ranged AoE skill. Affects 3 targets in that area, Each hit apply 1s revealed on targets.
  • Call of the Wild

Late thoughts

Another lengthy post about how IMHO the ranger should be reworked to keep up with the actual times. Core ranger right now has very limited impact in the game which drag the specialisations down to be memes or useless. Having more options with my suggested changes should improve the possibilities of how ranger can be desired in instanced content and squad for other than the additional buff spirits brings.
This changes could make the sidelines support ranger a thing and a good baseline for specialisations to thrive in their niche design.

Interface

Show spirits and pet in an interface similar to when party view in the squad comp. Thus there is no need to change the UI but the player can keep tabs in the boons/conditions/hp of the minions and pets. This could be beneficial to also other classes as temporal minions may have an specific boon which shows how many seconds are left (as stacks in the boon)

What do you think? Are those changes an step in a good direction for a limited support type or you would like to see other changes?

Comments

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2018

    why take a support ranger instead of a druid?

    memes aside i doubt this would make support ranger (or core ranger in general) more desirable.

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2018

    Why are you trying to change all 3 specs for ranger into support???

    And no, core ranger doesn't need support improvements... Druid needs support improvements.

    Edit- I'm not going to dissect all your various posts on making ranger more viable for wvw, but a quick scan through doesn't show me anything game changing for ranger, or make them more desirable in squads... The only semi-interesting thing would be for spirit reworks, but the way you have it wouldn't do much because they would get killed fast in anything other than a 1v1, just like our subpar pets....

    Big part of the reason why rangers aren't wanted in squads is because there are far better alternatives to druid... playing druid is not fun... not rewarding... it's unnecessarily clunky in design, has a silly gate to heal skills, staff meh... and it's easy to shut down. Almost every ranger weapon stinks for wvw zerg play, except for our LB and Druid staff... and those are still mediocre for zerg play compared. My best advice is to stop niggling about traits, and focus more on how our weapons perform and fixing the crud that needs to get fixed first.

  • the only overhaul needed is with peoples brains. I have seen this stupid tunnel vision before in warcraft. It makes for a toxic community. pretty much you get where we are now in WvW, (almost) everyone is a FB or a Scourge.
    Today I was asked in a really patronising way, why was I in a squad on core guardian. I replied because i like core guardian, why are you asking a total stranger to justify their choices on a video game, who the kitten are you? - no answer.
    just play what you like and if they would rather be 1 man down than 1 ranger up then they are stupid .

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2018

    Yeah i'm going to say no to that.

    Spirits are a big part of my main non elite spec'd Ranger build and I like them just the way they are.

    Having them follow the player not only makes stealth pointless in all game modes (See the hate for Minions lol) but it also makes them annoying to use as a spirit shield which is something I love to do with my build and has saved my butt more times than I can count.
    It's also something I don't often see other players doing either despite it being a very effective tactic for soloing things with a glass build.

    I think your wisp idea would be far better off as a Minion/Gyro style mechanic for a Ranger Elite Spec and that I'd be all for since I really enjoy the Necro Minion Master style play.

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @A State of Trance.3675 said:
    the only overhaul needed is with peoples brains. I have seen this stupid tunnel vision before in warcraft. It makes for a toxic community. pretty much you get where we are now in WvW, (almost) everyone is a FB or a Scourge.
    Today I was asked in a really patronising way, why was I in a squad on core guardian. I replied because i like core guardian, why are you asking a total stranger to justify their choices on a video game, who the kitten are you? - no answer.
    just play what you like and if they would rather be 1 man down than 1 ranger up then they are stupid .

    But it doesn't invalidate the fact that there are a finite number of slots available in WvW maps, and not even enough to effectively cover ground given their size. Player slots are a precious resource, and this creates a mind set concerned with liability and wasted potential. Especially on servers where Pugs are not effective on their own, or can't self organize even with a commander driving them around. This is further compounded by the periodic influx of PvE leeching whenever theres a demand for Gift of Battle, making non-meta builds easy to spot, but also reasonable to presume they aren't being effective enough in what ever task their engaged in.

    Its a community level problem, but one thats not entirely unfounded. And while people are jerks about calling it out, so are people who try to defend their position by claiming they "have value just by being there". Because when a map is queued, and the choice is between a Core Ranger and a Firebrand, the Firebrand is useful in both large and small scale groups, while the Ranger is a lot more limited without Druid being effective in the overall game mode. Add to that an offensive Ranger is projectile heavy, the current meta being heavy on reflects, and ranger having limited uptime on unblockable, Ranger requires a lot more external synergy to be anything other then single target burst.... something Deadeye is pulling ahead with the stealth advantage and the reworked DJ/Malice refire rate.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2018

    It's not only about the unrealistic idea of you play what you want . Which is a lie in all gamemodes. In WvW the game is designed to play in groups, Solo roamers can be possible just with busted builds like permastealth deadeye or permaevade mirage.

    The point given here is

    • Because of the lack of support and AoE damage output no ranger (in any build) is wanted or desired in WvW. That's a fact repeated thousand times in every media outlet is there. Best case scenario you are wasting an squad spot. Worst case you are wasting an spot in the map.
    • Because Rangers are not wanted in any squad a ranger loses the EXP and loot attributed to squad member, because you share the attributions of your party.
    • Because the Ranger loses EXP you are in grave disadvantage in rank gain as it takes much longer to get to get to the higher WvW rank.
    • Because of that you are not earning as many pips as somebody playing necro or guardian. You miss the reward tracks chests and loot.

    In resume, people saying you can play ranger in wvw what really mean is you can go to wvw and waste an slot in map. You will not earn even a faction of either experience, pips in the reward tracks, kills or loot as other player with class which is viable (necro, guardian, revenant...) as those classes have better designed Core than ranger.

    This trait rework is to give the core ranger to have an excuse to be present in an squad. Which the idea is to provide better synergy with a Druid rework .

    The core Class of the ranger must have access in some degree to all aspects of the game so the specializations can be used to tailor some type of game play with the only traitline they bring. This is specially true with the ranger which it really doesn't have anything which is good at . unlike the thief which is clearly designed as burst one shot class as an example.

    It's like building a great castle over sand. It always fall apart.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    While I agree with most of what @anduriell.6280 said, I have to refute a couple of points

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    Best case scenario you are wasting an squad spot. Worst case you are wasting an spot in the map.

    The only way anyone is a wasted spot on a map is if they are sitting afk collecting pips/reward track. If you are actively playing the game, in whatever role, you are not a waste. You may be less effective, sure, but waste is an incorrect designation.

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    • Because Rangers are not wanted in any squad a ranger loses the EXP and loot attributed to squad member, because you share the attributions of your party.

    This only applies in squad vs. players. If you are outside the squad but cap the camp / tower / keep alongside the squad, your rewards are the same.

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    • Because the Ranger loses EXP you are in grave disadvantage in rank gain as it takes much longer to get to get to the higher WvW rank.

    Again, this only applies in squad vs. players. I've seen commanders spend so much time just getting into position, setting up siege only have to fall back, that you could earn far more WXP just by flipping camps on BL maps. But in large scale players vs. player battles, you definitely get more XP as your contributions are bunched in with your squad mates.

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    • Because of that you are not earning as many pips as somebody playing necro or guardian. You miss the reward tracks chests and loot.

    Reward track points are dictated by participation, and anyone can attain LV 6 participation by just playing, be it killing NPCs, Caravans, or using Trebs.
    Pips are earned as a function of your WvW rank and your server's war score. True, the higher your WvW rank the more points you will earn, but you are talking about +1 pip at WvW LV 150, and next bump is at WVW LV 620.

    Having Commitment (completing Wood division the week previous) and Outnumbered buff has a far great impact. I can earn more pips solo roaming on a BL map because of Outnumbered than someone who spends the same amount of time in a zerg in EBG.

    Regarding the OP's post: This is not something new to the game, and it is largely a result of player choice. The current meta revolves around 4/5 profession specs, Firebrand, Spell breaker, Scourge and Elementalist / Herald (depends on who you talk to).

    That isn't to say having a Mesmer in a squad for ports is bad.
    That isn't to say having a Scrapper in the squad for invis or revive is bad.
    That isn't to say having a Ranger in the squad for sniping is bad.
    That isn't to say having a Thief in the squad for sniping, scouting and tagging is bad.

    But by in large, zerg vs zerg, the above 4 professions do not contribute as much to the current zerg meta as the 5 others. BUT, those 4 profession also excel at solo roaming more than the other 5 (although Warrior is pretty solid - again, depends on who you talk to), so it isn't as if they have no place in WvW.

    So if you want to play in a zerg, level a profession that is used in the current zerg meta. Period. End stop. There is no point in fighting it. Some commanders won't care, but the better ones will, and really, who do you want to follow? If you want to play a roaming profession because that is what you like, no problem, just be sure to build them as a roamer and learn what roaming is about, and how you can be most impactful against the enemy teams.

    I have my Soulbeast for when I want to roam for a bit or complete dailies, and when I want to spend a few hours in a zerg, I switch to my Herald. I've taken my Ranger into squads that didn't object, but I knew that I was getting more from them than what I was giving. On my Rev it's a different matter, as I can offer offensive or defensive support as needed, all baked right in to my elite spec.

  • Prophet.1584Prophet.1584 Member ✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    While I agree with most of what @anduriell.6280 said, I have to refute a couple of points

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    Best case scenario you are wasting an squad spot. Worst case you are wasting an spot in the map.

    The only way anyone is a wasted spot on a map is if they are sitting afk collecting pips/reward track. If you are actively playing the game, in whatever role, you are not a waste. You may be less effective, sure, but waste is an incorrect designation.

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    • Because Rangers are not wanted in any squad a ranger loses the EXP and loot attributed to squad member, because you share the attributions of your party.

    This only applies in squad vs. players. If you are outside the squad but cap the camp / tower / keep alongside the squad, your rewards are the same.

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    • Because the Ranger loses EXP you are in grave disadvantage in rank gain as it takes much longer to get to get to the higher WvW rank.

    Again, this only applies in squad vs. players. I've seen commanders spend so much time just getting into position, setting up siege only have to fall back, that you could earn far more WXP just by flipping camps on BL maps. But in large scale players vs. player battles, you definitely get more XP as your contributions are bunched in with your squad mates.

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    • Because of that you are not earning as many pips as somebody playing necro or guardian. You miss the reward tracks chests and loot.

    Reward track points are dictated by participation, and anyone can attain LV 6 participation by just playing, be it killing NPCs, Caravans, or using Trebs.
    Pips are earned as a function of your WvW rank and your server's war score. True, the higher your WvW rank the more points you will earn, but you are talking about +1 pip at WvW LV 150, and next bump is at WVW LV 620.

    Having Commitment (completing Wood division the week previous) and Outnumbered buff has a far great impact. I can earn more pips solo roaming on a BL map because of Outnumbered than someone who spends the same amount of time in a zerg in EBG.

    Regarding the OP's post: This is not something new to the game, and it is largely a result of player choice. The current meta revolves around 4/5 profession specs, Firebrand, Spell breaker, Scourge and Elementalist / Herald (depends on who you talk to).

    That isn't to say having a Mesmer in a squad for ports is bad.
    That isn't to say having a Scrapper in the squad for invis or revive is bad.
    That isn't to say having a Ranger in the squad for sniping is bad.
    That isn't to say having a Thief in the squad for sniping, scouting and tagging is bad.

    But by in large, zerg vs zerg, the above 4 professions do not contribute as much to the current zerg meta as the 5 others. BUT, those 4 profession also excel at solo roaming more than the other 5 (although Warrior is pretty solid - again, depends on who you talk to), so it isn't as if they have no place in WvW.

    So if you want to play in a zerg, level a profession that is used in the current zerg meta. Period. End stop. There is no point in fighting it. Some commanders won't care, but the better ones will, and really, who do you want to follow? If you want to play a roaming profession because that is what you like, no problem, just be sure to build them as a roamer and learn what roaming is about, and how you can be most impactful against the enemy teams.

    I have my Soulbeast for when I want to roam for a bit or complete dailies, and when I want to spend a few hours in a zerg, I switch to my Herald. I've taken my Ranger into squads that didn't object, but I knew that I was getting more from them than what I was giving. On my Rev it's a different matter, as I can offer offensive or defensive support as needed, all baked right in to my elite spec.

    agree with this 100% although i would like to see an effective zerg build for druid or soulbeast.

  • I moslty see @Turkeyspit.3965 points and i agree those are valid which are open discussion point. I'd just like to clarify a little bit my comment "Best case scenario you are wasting an squad spot. Worst case you are wasting an spot in the map." As i now see it came out a little bit harsh.

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    The only way anyone is a wasted spot on a map is if they are sitting afk collecting pips/reward track. If you are actively playing the game, in whatever role, you are not a waste. You may be less effective, sure, but waste is an incorrect designation.

    What i mean with a waste spot in squad and map is :

    • If you are not included in the squad in any form you will not receive the boons from such squad. Which somehow forces you to play back sidelines, a side-liner in main fight the ranger would be picked up by enemy thiefs and mirages which are vastly superior in 1vx combat. Which greatly limits that player impact in the battle.
    • If you are included in an squad because the commander is a polite person, you will be in the "trash party" which is the party were the put thieves and other rangers. You will be in the situation as above.

    Either way your impact in the battle is best case scenario marginal. But there is even worst scenario than being a wasted spot in the squad which is the ranger to be a potential ress-bot for the enemy players. Which is very likely as you lack all the resistance and boons the squad is providing.
    I can't think of a more negative impact in any situation than rally an enemy downed because of your dead.

    Flipping camps and towers is mostly impossible nowadays against T1-T2 servers as those have many pug groups of thieves and mesmers X10 which dedicate themselves to hunt down roamers or smaller groups.

    This limited support changes will add maturity to the core ranger which can be expanded in with the E-Specs in some degree which effectively change how the class is played. Without it the new E-Spec has to bring something completely new to the class and that's not possible with one trait line, one weapon and 5 utilities, and it ends up being a gimick class for the meme as it was druid and it is soulbeast now.

    As Architectural design is extremely difficult to do that without breaking the balance as those skills has to fill in. It did happen when they balanced Druid on removing the broken mechanic (having such an absurd healing numbers without healing and the e-spec become trash) and it will happen to soulbeast too when Anet balance the multipliers which take damage output out of the roof.

    Either way i still can't understand why all the complains to bring back something old that was there before but was removed mostly because of performance reasons (pathing for the spirits, the moving AoEs of those and the chance on hit which increases the server overhead... ). I am not asking for remove something is now there just to have more options.

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