F2 with -3 is incredible slow for support options

I havent played my damage Herald in WvW lately, but it doesnt rely on its F2 that much anyway.After testing support builds I realized that F2 now costs -3 upkeep energy. Thats absolutly ridiculous. The boosts are minimal but still needed for full potential. You can barely use Ventari stance with F2 on, let alone ANY weapon skills will make your energy perma below 20.

I agree but not just for support options, attempting to maintain Facet of Nature on pretty much any build feels bad with the -3 upkeep.

Yeah it does feel terrible in really any Facet. The only one that feels worth it to use is Mallyx if you're playing support for max condi absorption, but only if Draconic Echo is traited. Ventari Facet of Nature is a joke. I did some napkin math in a Reddit post to compare it to Facet of Light (Regen), which is 1 upkeep.

If at 1500 healing power:

Regen: 130 (0.125) every 1 second: 317.5 every 1 second or 952.5 every 3 seconds
Facet of Nature - Ventari: 272 (0.118) every 3 seconds: 149 every 1 second or 449 every 3 seconds.

This is also not factoring in Elder's Respite, which is a 20% increase to regen, which would make it 381 every 1 second or 1143 every 3 seconds. So FoN-V is roughly 2.5x weaker, but 3x the upkeep cost of Facet of Light in WvW/PvE, and 2x the cost in PvP.

I agree that the new Facet of Nature and its corresponding True nature skill is well... subpar. If you ask me the real reason, why the upkeep was changed to -3, was pvp so you cant have IO and facet of shiro passive together (which would be absolultely ridiculous cause you would kill everything by just auto-ing). sad things happen

Yeah, that extra 100 or so damage every 0.5sec really adds up. Totally worth the three points of upkeep.

I'm pretty sure the balance team made the changes to the facet's effects on different legends first and then, thinking it was a significant buff to the skill's utility or something, made it more costly to maintain. I'd say it happening to be just enough to prevent the use of IO is a fluke.

Have a look at Glint's facet of nature effect too. It was made about 40% weaker, the consume skill was made about as relevant as a sparrow's effort trying to stop an oncoming car with a fart, and its upkeep cost was increased by 50%. Makes sense.

@Madara.7435 said:I agree that the new Facet of Nature and its corresponding True nature skill is well... subpar. If you ask me the real reason, why the upkeep was changed to -3, was pvp so you cant have IO and facet of shiro passive together (which would be absolultely ridiculous cause you would kill everything by just auto-ing). sad things happen

Well, at this point, it's not just auto attacking, but using all your energy for a very few seconds of great power. After this short window, you are exhausted and force to swap legend. I wouldn't call it OP.

In WvW zergs as a damage herold, the only legend I use F2 is Jalis. The damage reduction is nice if the damage is not big enough yet (Acs, ranged damage etc) and you grant stability on releasing F2. But Even then I have to make sure to stop this early enough to get enough energy back for dwarf ritual and stability street.

I agree with what people are saying, but even if it added extra damage channeling the f2 and IO, its still at a large cost of energy at -2, and have to cast its consume skill to remove that drain. I'm not sure if they increased the cost because that extra dmg would be game breaking either, seeing how they increased Glints skill dmg/ lower cd no problem... I dont understand why they increased the cost at all honestly, they worked hard on these interesting passives that ended up being ignored because of the cost and how weak the passives are (maybe used for its active for some). All builds cant take advantage of it very well including support where you want to spam other skills and the upkeep isnt close to as good.

I really wanted the f2 to be engaging and usable (in a pvp/wvw context but I imagine for pve as well). Before the f2 changes in wvw I used to upkeep it to benefit my team and now I don't upkeep it at all I just pop it in Jalis for stab and thats the only time I touch it. In Glint I'd rather upkeep other skills so I have them ready to use or have extra boons going out instead of +1/4s or so to boons with a high cost. In Jalis there's no point in upkeeping the -10% dmg reduction passive when I can save my energy for the elite, or gain short stab from the brick road, or extra upkeep dmg from spinning hammers. Same thing for ventari/other legends in my exerience for wvw at least, if this affects pve playstyles in a similar way I'd be curious to know as well.

Imo and from my experience it would be a good thing if it was brought back to -2 then you can have an extra layer of managing your energy for the affect and there's something engaging to be paying attention to and using instead of just being as ignored as before in a wvw context. Or buff the passive affects to be stronger and worth the cost over other skills.