Let's talk stealth

Hey there,

With the recent reworks of classes/E specs, perhaps one may hope for a revision of the mechanic stealth and its impact on the game.

At current, stealth is binary - you are invisible or not; you are countered by revealed or not.Stealth adds a layer of surprise but doesn't give a good way to counter by that of it's binary nature.

I have a few suggestions that no doubt have been mentioned before considering this topic and stealth throughout the years. Criticism, additions or any feedback is certainly welcome.

Not long ago I was watching a streamer of Heroes of the Storm and it came to my attention that stealth characters work on a gradient of seen to outright invisible.They are given a light outline of their location and movement which can be attacked by the player.Something along these lines may indeed work well for guild wars 2.

If at base, within a 150-300 radius surrounding the player character an outline of the character in stealth; this outline shown would depend on the scale of stealth and the scale of reveal.

Scaling of stealth and reveal itself would certainly be based on the classes available to each.

Eg:

A thief would scale higher to stealth and have less of an outline than a warrior would.

A warrior would gain access to lesser scaling stealth but due to being a more open fighter, perhaps higher reveal scaling with 'on my mark'

Additional mechanics:

Ranger certainly brings another addition to the mix of stealth.Camouflage and invisibility may indeed be one and the same.

Invisibility allows for hiding and for the scaling of stealth whilst camouflage allws for the highest scaling to be hidden from sight but breaks on first contact of combat.

Both of these could work in tandem with a dead eye in the manner of stalking the foe to make for maximum damage.Cloaked in shadow as the mark builds and can then gain camouflage for enabling the single damaging shot of Death's Judgement.

This is all more or less theoretical in the hopes to draw discussion for way new way of making stealth and reveal work better across all classes that have access to it and allow for greater play and counter play when it comes to such game play.

Thank you for reading,

-Phyrak

Some classes has enough skills to be almost perms invisible, I you could avoid some stealth detection skills it would mean that they would get even greater chances of doing hit and run and be able to get away with no risk.

How do you think the detection would work, if you get to close and you are detected will you be visible to everyone or just the one who detects you? As of now if you are detected in anyway you are visible to everyone and you go out of stealth, this warns you that you are in "danger". In this game in pvp battles are very fast-paced at least for a thief, if you are found out you would not want to be in stealth anymore or at least get a hint that you are spotted.

I think stealth is fine as is but I wouldn't mind if it had a rework if it's done well. But the thing is that you should not temper with stuff that already works.

@"EdgarMTanaka.7291" said:Some classes has enough skills to be almost perms invisible, I you could avoid some stealth detection skills it would mean that they would get even greater chances of doing hit and run and be able to get away with no risk.

How do you think the detection would work, if you get to close and you are detected will you be visible to everyone or just the one who detects you? As of now if you are detected in anyway you are visible to everyone and you go out of stealth, this warns you that you are in "danger". In this game in pvp battles are very fast-paced at least for a thief, if you are found out you would not want to be in stealth anymore or at least get a hint that you are spotted.

I think stealth is fine as is but I wouldn't mind if it had a rework if it's done well. But the thing is that you should not temper with stuff that already works.

The gradient mentioned of revealed vs stealth is an interesting concept.Both revealed and stealth both have 4 achievable levels shadowed/short sighted - invisible/camouflage/intrinsic sight

If a thief's stealth is level 3 or 4.A warrior could see it with ease if the reveal trait/skill matched or outdid the stealth.Yet, if the trait/skill was below the stealth - then there would be a lesser outline or would be completely invisible.

This allows for minor counter play rather than outright binary outcomes.

As for a WvW Zerg; again this depends on the skills taken by the individuals in the Zerg. Yes it'll be far easier to detect a Zerg diving thief but at the same time - if the skills are maximized for high level stealth, then many people with low level revealed should be counted by it.

Investment vs investment.

It will also mean that taking one tree over another for gameplay of certain mechanics will mean a little more

Okay so where is the benefit to current stealth classes?

@Cyninja.2954 said:Okay so where is the benefit to current stealth classes?

Varying types of stealth:The usual cloaking/shadow magic for thief

Rangers due to their nature of attack may benefit more from camouflage - much as in the wild, an animal be invisible to the naked eye but once it attacks, it is seen.

Engineer could be either of the due to their nature of tinkering.

As for the mechanic itself.Perhaps an easier way to access it if you invest into it and if balanced, allow for an extended period of time in it - this would very much benefit something like the deadeye that needs time to prepare (or at least it did prior to its rework).

Stealth should be in two mindsets.

Stalking the prey; deadeye in a nutshell

Blitzkrieg aggression; ranger or engineer with their respective E specs

things i personally would like to see:

some way that players are alerted to the pressence of stealthed units (and their absence), be it noise or a unique effect among condi's or boons.

alow stealthed players to block enemies from capping. (points are usually small enough that if you know they're on point you could cleave them down with a meelee weapon)

some other changes to make stealth gameplay less of a pain to deal with.

@Phyrak.7260 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Okay so where is the benefit to current stealth classes?

All those things are disadvantages versus the current system. You are correct, a binary system is boring, but in this case it accomplishes what it was designed for. A more interesting or expanded system is not automatically a benefit. Thus I was asking how this specifically would enrich the game play or experience.

Rangers and more classes having access to stealth is not an advantages if you consider that a majority of the player base would be for removing stealth entirely. Existing classes with access to stealth are in most situations worse off with a non binary system.

Balance as a whole would have to be redone on top of all.

This is not me going:"You are wrong." This is me poking to see how much thought you've put into this change since when HotS change the way they did stealth it way accompanied with extensive reworks to all affected classes and the resonance in the community was skeptical.

@derd.6413 said:things i personally would like to see:

some way that players are alerted to the pressence of stealthed units (and their absence), be it noise or a unique effect among condi's or boons.

alow stealthed players to block enemies from capping. (points are usually small enough that if you know they're on point you could cleave them down with a meelee weapon)

some other changes to make stealth gameplay less of a pain to deal with.

I certainly agree with all these points.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Phyrak.7260 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Okay so where is the benefit to current stealth classes?

This is why I bring this topic up.Discussions like these help to bring little things to the surface to bring out future changes - at current as mentioned a binary system works very well but it is rather boring and doesn't give much freedom in its mannerA ground up rework is very much needed to make such discussions fruitful and allow for greater counter play and build freedom.