Instant Death Downstate skill

I've noticed recently (and maybe it isn't all that recent across all servers?) that one method players have employed to troll enemy players in small scale fights, or more specifically 1v1s, is to leave the downed player in a state where they are unable to revive, but also won't spike or do enough damage to quickly finish the player so that it takes a much longer time to actually die. I realize that it is what is and there will always be players who enjoy trolling enemy players, but for once I see an opportunity to "fix" this type of play. My suggestion is to add an "instant death" or "seppuku" skill to the downstate abilities for each class (usable only in WvW and perhaps SPvP? Replaces the Signet of Agony skill only available in PvE) that allows a player to finish him or herself instantly. To offset the fact that an enemy player should still be given an opportunity to spike, the skill would have a 10 second cooldown initiated when the player is first downed.

Just a thought...

@"Ronin.4501" said:I've noticed recently (and maybe it isn't all that recent across all servers?) that one method players have employed to troll enemy players in small scale fights, or more specifically 1v1s, is to leave the downed player in a state where they are unable to revive, but also won't spike or do damage to the player so that it takes a much longer time to actually die. I realize that it is what is and there will always be players who enjoy trolling enemy players, but for once I see an opportunity to "fix" this type of play. My suggestion is to add an "instant death" or "seppuku" skill to the downstate abilities for each class (usable only in WvW and perhaps SPvP? Replaces the Signet of Agony skill only available in PvE) that allows a player to finish him or herself instantly. To offset the fact that an enemy player should still be given an opportunity to spike, the skill would have a 10 second cooldown initiated when the player is first downed.

Just a thought...

Eh, have to gauge the player doing that to you. Sometimes they are being nice and letting you rally. Sometimes they are petty. I don't think a new skill is necessary really. Just keep pressing 1 and 2. Generally you should be getting spiked or cleaved. Best way to deal with someone not doing that to you is to return the favor.

Or you could just take the time to get off your chair, stretch your legs a little, crack your knuckles, drink some water, whatever, before your time is up and you can wp.

There is really nothing so important that you cant chill for a few seconds.

In the past I got some salty whispers because after I Downed them I went for the stomp only for them to use #2 so then they can bleed out. The whispers I use to get is "why didn't you finish me?" I tried but you didn't want to get stomped so you can bleed out instead.

Not sure what the issue is. As there are advantages to downstate, there need to be disadvantages as well. Bleeding out is a legitimate strategy and a feature that should absolutely exist as long as downstate is present in this game. If they are abusing it with you and trolling you, that means you are trying to self-rez, so you are enabling this. Giving downstate an instant-death skill would be giving counterplay to counterplay, which I don't think should be implemented.

Huh. I always thought not stomping was a either a sign of goodwill or an invitation to fight again. Or is it like they let you res to 99% and punt you?

But IMO such an ability would have too much of a drawback. I think there's a small chance you'll hit it by accident and that may cause you to rallybot. I mean, it's not likely to happen, but it would probably happen eventually.

In spvp this is a legitimate tactic because when you're bleeding out you can't contest a point.

Sometimes I down players in wvw so fast I feel bad about finishing them, especially if they're not even bronze on the title. So I don't finish them and leave instead. They can get back up and not have a bad taste of wvw because someone railroaded them.

Why not press 4 and try get yourself revived.If they hit you 1-2 times and walkaway still, then they trolling you.The thing that really irritates me is if i play thief and i see player from my server down, i go to raise him.I have trait set so revive will stealth the player and me and stop the stomp.What does the downed player do? Yeap, press 1 or 2 and reveal himself.

I agree with the OP, I have limited time to play so I don't want to spend any of it relaxing on the dirt while I bleed out with someone jumping/throwing siege on me. Let me die and respawn so I have the chance to continue playing or to get back into the fight. Even add to the skill that they get their stomp as a penalty on me for deciding to use the skill.

Nope. I've had this done to me and it was a troll, BUT, I've done it in small scale especially near a spawn camp with the person outside the ring. I don't want them returning, and I'm going to make sure they don't rally or return until the camp/tower is capped.

The longer you are in downstate, the more time you can't help your server.

I'll do my best to address as many of these comments as I can.

@"Justine.6351" said:Eh, have to gauge the player doing that to you. Sometimes they are being nice and letting you rally. Sometimes they are petty. I don't think a new skill is necessary really. Just keep pressing 1 and 2. Generally you should be getting spiked or cleaved. Best way to deal with someone not doing that to you is to return the favor.

As I said in the initial post this is something I've noticed only recently. If the enemy player was being nice and letting you rally there would be no need for this thread. Typically the enemy player is moving out of range of the 1 & 2 downstate skills, and should you try to use the 4 downstate skill to revive, the player comes back within range to interrupt the heal. Add in /laugh emote or two and it's quite clear they're trolling. And trolling the troll is exactly what I was hoping to avoid. Doesn't this game (and all MMOs) have enough trolling as it is? My suggestion was a means by which to "fix" some small part of this type of play.

@ArchonWing.9480 said:Huh. I always thought not stomping was a either a sign of goodwill or an invitation to fight again. Or is it like they let you res to 99% and punt you?

This is not a duel, where it was commonplace not to spike at the end of a fight so players could duel again. This seems to be a new tactic where the enemy player attempts to keep you in a downstate for as long as possible.

@Dawdler.8521 said:There is really nothing so important that you cant chill for a few seconds.

If this were only a few seconds I wouldn't have an issue, which is why I suggested a cooldown timer before giving access to the skill (and 10s was a suggestion. It could be 15 or 20s). Again, this seems to be a new tactic where the enemy player attempts to keep you in a downstate for as long as possible.

@"Hesacon.8735" said:In spvp this is a legitimate tactic because when you're bleeding out you can't contest a point.

Sometimes I down players in wvw so fast I feel bad about finishing them, especially if they're not even bronze on the title. So I don't finish them and leave instead. They can get back up and not have a bad taste of wvw because someone railroaded them.

I'll admit I don't play SPvP, so it's quite possible adding a mechanic to that aspect of the game would be more detrimental than in WvW. But again, I can assure you this isn't about an enemy player simply leaving and allowing me to revive (I sometimes employ the same tactic as you and leave lower-ranked players the opportunity to revive themselves after I've downed them; I typically skip low-ranked players altogether unless I find them going for a camp/yak, or should they choose to engage me first).

Again, this was my attempt at suggesting a "fix" to combat some of the trolling that seems to be more commonplace as the game goes forward. I'll also add that this is specifically happening when I'm roaming alone, as having another player available to revive me would render this issue moot. All the same, I appreciate everyone who commented in response.

It's a tactic to tilt you in WvW and it is obviously working. The best thing you can do is just spam 1, pretend like you don't even notice - they want you to sit there and do nothing looking helpless so continuing to attack takes that power move away from them.

it's not trolling, it's a legitimate tactic especially in spvp

@derd.6413 said:it's not trolling, it's a legitimate tactic especially in spvp

In sPvP it is. His description IS trolling. I acknowledge that.

However, it is also a legitimate tactic to delay respawns which is why I don't want to see it changed.

If it bothers you that badly there is a 'skill' that can be used: alt-F4

@Strider Pj.2193 said:If it bothers you that badly there is a 'skill' that can be used: alt-F4

Though remember, if you do this you give far greater satisfaction to the one who defeated you.

@Turk.5460 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:If it bothers you that badly there is a 'skill' that can be used: alt-F4

Absolutely!

Which is why I agree with @Dawdler.8521 suggestion in the thread. Take the time for a bio break. Get a drink, get a snack, surface from the basement.. whatever. Just do something other than let them get to you.

There was once an entire upset in the Pro championships because a team prevented the other from rallying or dying for long enough to get all 3 points.Now lets add a skill that entirely deflates the strategic value of the death mechanic, because OP doesn't like it when other people are better at the game than he is.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@derd.6413 said:it's not trolling, it's a legitimate tactic especially in spvp

if i kill a solo player, noone to rez them and they use their 2 skill to interrupt my stomp than this is as much trolling as what i will do afterwards.

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@derd.6413 said:it's not trolling, it's a legitimate tactic especially in spvp

Not necessarily, though. Players will want to try to avoid the stomp to deny your team the extra PPT from bloodlust. Wouldn't call that trolling.

@ReaverKane.7598 said:There was once an entire upset in the Pro championships because a team prevented the other from rallying or dying for long enough to get all 3 points.Now lets add a skill that entirely deflates the strategic value of the death mechanic, because OP doesn't like it when other people are better at the game than he is.

I'll admit I expected more responses like this, rather than the constructive comments everyone else has given. I consider myself to be an average player at best. If I had a problem with other players being better than me, I wouldn't have lasted 10 minutes in WvW. If I had a problem with dying in WvW, I would never run solo. Dying is a part of WvW. I've never had any issue with that.

@Ronin.4501 said: To offset the fact that an enemy player should still be given an opportunity to spike, the skill would have a 10 second cooldown initiated when the player is first downed.Reading comprehension. Learn it. Live it. Love it.

And my counterpoint to keeping a player in downstate being a legitimate tactic is that it's NOT a tactic I see being employed by players engaging in the larger fights or defending structures. It IS a tactic I see being employed by the thieves and mesmers (and more recently holos) who wait near enemy spawns and enjoy throwing siege on their dead opponents. AKA trolls.

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:If it bothers you that badly there is a 'skill' that can be used: alt-F4

I have employed this tactic on occasion in these instances. And I hate to say it, but in some instances this has actually proven to be a quicker method to returning to the fight than allowing oneself to bleed out. But damn if it doesn't make me feel "dirty" to do it!!

@Turk.5460 said:Not necessarily, though. Players will want to try to avoid the stomp to deny your team the extra PPT from bloodlust. Wouldn't call that trolling.

I agree with him completely here. I try to avoid the stomp to give the enemy 1 point rather than 3. And that being the case, I'm in complete agreement with Bravesole's suggestion:

@Bravesole.2684 said:Even add to the skill that they get their stomp as a penalty on me for deciding to use the skill.

@Turk.5460 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@derd.6413 said:it's not trolling, it's a legitimate tactic especially in spvp

if that player is alone and once interrupts my stomp, i could stomp again so no real point in it aside from wasting my time. if they truely want to avoid that point they got to alt+f4.i had players that used their 2 skill to avoid my stomp, so i let them bleed out. they tried to rez, i interrupted several times etc. and then they complained.if their intention was to die without the extra stomp point then they wouldnt have complained about me not finishing them - then i did exactly what they wanted: killed them without stomping.

@Ronin.4501 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:There was once an entire upset in the Pro championships because a team prevented the other from rallying or dying for long enough to get all 3 points.Now lets add a skill that entirely deflates the strategic value of the death mechanic, because OP doesn't like it when other people are better at the game than he is.

@Ronin.4501 said: To offset the fact that an enemy player should still be given an opportunity to spike, the skill would have a 10 second cooldown initiated when the player is first downed.Reading comprehension. Learn it. Live it. Love it.

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:If it bothers you that badly there is a 'skill' that can be used: alt-F4

Understood. But just because it CAN be used as a troll tactic, doesn't mean it should have a counter to it.

It can be used as a valid tactic. Therefore taking that away is not a good option.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Ronin.4501 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:There was once an entire upset in the Pro championships because a team prevented the other from rallying or dying for long enough to get all 3 points.Now lets add a skill that entirely deflates the strategic value of the death mechanic, because OP doesn't like it when other people are better at the game than he is.

@Ronin.4501 said: To offset the fact that an enemy player should still be given an opportunity to spike, the skill would have a 10 second cooldown initiated when the player is first downed.Reading comprehension. Learn it. Live it. Love it.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:If it bothers you that badly there is a 'skill' that can be used: alt-F4

Not to argue your point, as everyone has their opinion on whether it is truly an intended tactic or trolling.

I do wonder if the devs view this mechanic as working as intended or trolling. I mean as a tactic it doesn't seem like it is adding value to the game mode given at the end of the encounter, one player likely dies anyways but it just seems to be a waste of time. I guess if the wasting of time ultimately contributes to your team winning the tick.