Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged] - Page 33 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged]

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  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    My concern is this turning into a common trait every new episode release, which in turn makes it so I don’t feel like playing the episode and thus slowly finding some other game to play, I guess. Which is sad, since I’ve been playing this franchise since 2005 and this is the first time the game has made me feel this way.

    I don't see why, it's the not the first time content has affected prices of mats people want to buy on the TP.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    No, no ... let's think here ... if the sigil didn't change price on the TP when the content was released, what would the complain be here?

    Nice try but that's not relevant. I asked a simple question, why promote and give incentives to rush content? That's the main issue here.

    I don't think that's relevant either ... I don't see what the promotion or incentive is to rush this content ... just like you don't see how all this is related to sigil price on the TP.

    It's simple. Those that rushed and finished the content quickly found out about the sigil, then bought 22.7k sigils (we have the data) at less than 3 silver each. How many players did this is unclear because the gw2bltc or gw2spidy websites update 2 times per day and the episode was released in-between the updates (on purpose probably). Even so, I doubt it was too many, because it was "only" 681 gold to buy all of them, a single player could've bought every single sigil once they rushed and found out what was happening. but let's say it wasn't a single person but a group of early rushers. After they bought all the available supply, they relisted them for 10g each. That's a profit of about 9gold 97 silver PER sigil that they bought, or a profit of about 226319 gold split between those early rushers that bought all the initial supply and then resold those sigils.

    What does this tell the players of this game? Next episode, and the ones after it, rush the content as fast as possible, skip dialogue and cutscenes, in order to see what kind of new collection exists that requires old cheap items, so you can buy them all at their current low market value, then relist them and make an absolutely huge profit. I guess for you, 227k gold in profit isn't enough of an incentive, and now that this non-sense is known, a player could easily do it next time alone (681 gold is nothing), provided they are the FASTEST one. Or the group of fastest ones. And you don't see this as incentive to rush the content? How much extra gold do they need to add as a reward to the first player that finishes an episode to make it enough incentive for you.

    Right ... so again ... how is that not about price? It's completely is. If the sigil had stayed at 3s ... there would be no complaint here. It all relates to the price.

    Yes there wouldn't be profit if the price was the same... there wouldn't be a reward to those that rushed the content if the price was the same. But the price alone is irrelevant, when the price of silk went up it wasn't the same because it wasn't part of an Episode, nor parts of the Episode content required more Silk in order to complete collections. And I can say it again, if it was a NEW sigil added with this content there wouldn't be a problem either. You can't deny that those that rushed the content made an absolutely huge (227k gold) profit out of this situation, nor that it sets a precedent for players in the future to RUSH the content in order to reap this kind of profit.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    If you play this game, it's something you accept because it's intended to function this way.

    This is nonsense. This is the first episode that they did this. This is the first time they rewarded rushers like this, this is the first time they added extra rewards for those that started the collection early and benefited by buying the sigils and then selling them at a higher price. I don't accept this situation and I don't accept that MMORPGs intend to function this way when this is the first time in 6 years that Anet pulled off something like this.

    This is not the first time. A similar thing happened when they released Mawdrey but the degree of change was less.

    Imgur
    Imgur

    There has been other as well(there has been several cases of "if only I acted I could have made a pile of gold) I remember this specific one because there was someone in LA chat recommending people to flip the item.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2018

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    No, no ... let's think here ... if the sigil didn't change price on the TP when the content was released, what would the complain be here?

    Nice try but that's not relevant. I asked a simple question, why promote and give incentives to rush content? That's the main issue here.

    I don't think that's relevant either ... I don't see what the promotion or incentive is to rush this content ... just like you don't see how all this is related to sigil price on the TP.

    It's simple. Those that rushed and finished the content quickly found out about the sigil, then bought 22.7k sigils (we have the data) at less than 3 silver each. How many players did this is unclear because the gw2bltc or gw2spidy websites update 2 times per day and the episode was released in-between the updates (on purpose probably). Even so, I doubt it was too many, because it was "only" 681 gold to buy all of them, a single player could've bought every single sigil once they rushed and found out what was happening. but let's say it wasn't a single person but a group of early rushers. After they bought all the available supply, they relisted them for 10g each. That's a profit of about 9gold 97 silver PER sigil that they bought, or a profit of about 226319 gold split between those early rushers that bought all the initial supply and then resold those sigils.

    What does this tell the players of this game? Next episode, and the ones after it, rush the content as fast as possible, skip dialogue and cutscenes, in order to see what kind of new collection exists that requires old cheap items, so you can buy them all at their current low market value, then relist them and make an absolutely huge profit. I guess for you, 227k gold in profit isn't enough of an incentive, and now that this non-sense is known, a player could easily do it next time alone (681 gold is nothing), provided they are the FASTEST one. Or the group of fastest ones. And you don't see this as incentive to rush the content? How much extra gold do they need to add as a reward to the first player that finishes an episode to make it enough incentive for you.

    Right ... so again ... how is that not about price? It's completely is. If the sigil had stayed at 3s ... there would be no complaint here. It all relates to the price.

    Yes there wouldn't be profit if the price was the same... there wouldn't be a reward to those that rushed the content if the price was the same. But the price alone is irrelevant, when the price of silk went up it wasn't the same because it wasn't part of an Episode, nor parts of the Episode content required more Silk in order to complete collections. And I can say it again, if it was a NEW sigil added with this content there wouldn't be a problem either. You can't deny that those that rushed the content made an absolutely huge (227k gold) profit out of this situation, nor that it sets a precedent for players in the future to RUSH the content in order to reap this kind of profit.

    No the price is NOT irrelevant. If the price didn't change, there would be no incentive to rush, therefore, price IS what is causing people to rush the content. You keep saying it's not about price, then you go on to continue talking about all these people making profit from the content. WTH? If price isn't the issue here, why are you making people profiting from the content and causing others to rush to avoid being gouged the basis of your argument?

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2018

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    There has been other as well(there has been several cases of "if only I acted I could have made a pile of gold) I remember this specific one because there was someone in LA chat recommending people to flip the item.

    Yes the Superior Rune of Scavenging too in 2014 (with the Feature Pack)
    The difference is, with the Rune you needed too few, with Mawdrey it was a material commonly available. as it's more than clear from the graph some people tried to play the market by listing them way too high, but it didn't last because supply of Sunstone is fine. Meanwhile, the Sigil of Nullification is mostly stable, and has been stable for a while now.

    Edit: And another difference, you can finish Mawdrey at any time you wish, there are no event requirements, the Requiem armor, unless Anet changes something, has a time limit, because it's LS content and we all know how deserted LS maps turn after some time. Meanwhile, Mawdrey requires no obscure event completion as parts of the collection.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    There has been other as well(there has been several cases of "if only I acted I could have made a pile of gold) I remember this specific one because there was someone in LA chat recommending people to flip the item.

    Yes the Superior Rune of Scavenging too in 2014 (with the Feature Pack)
    The difference is, with the Rune you needed too few, with Mawdrey it was a material commonly available. as it's more than clear from the graph some people tried to play the market by listing them way too high, but it didn't last because supply of Sunstone is fine. Meanwhile, the Sigil of Nullification is mostly stable, and has been stable for a while now.

    Edit: And another difference, you can finish Mawdrey at any time you wish, there are no event requirements, the Requiem armor, unless Anet changes something, has a time limit, because it's LS content and we all know how deserted LS maps turn after some time. Meanwhile, Mawdrey requires no obscure event completion as parts of the collection.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9tpjrv/fond_of_rhand_still_bugged/ ;)

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    No the price is NOT irrelevant. If the price didn't change, there would be no incentive to rush, therefore, price IS what is causing people to rush the content. You keep saying it's not about price, then you go on to continue talking about all these people making profit from the content. WTH? If price isn't the issue here, why are you making people profiting from the content and causing others to rush to avoid being gouged the basis of your argument?

    I think I answered that in the part you quoted... I even gave an example of price changes (silk), and more in the post responding to Khisanth.2948 (rune of scavenging) that wasn't the same situation at all. Price change alone isn't the problem, the Collection in question being part of a Living World Episode is. They could've added the recipe for Requiem Armor as a Halloween reward and none of this would've happened at all, despite the price change.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not able to complete it due to a bug is different than not being able to complete it due to not having enough players. But I see your point :)

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    To anybody in WvW who wants this armor: Your glow is always orange, so it is a bit meh in there.

    excuuuuuuuuse me the glow on my boots is blue just as I painted it, even on desert borderland (the map where lightining screws alot with dying of the boots making them all gold in some angles instead of blueish-black with gold hints) :P

    Well, there may be slight variations in hue if you have the right colors. I'm red, but I have a bright yellow in WvW and no shade of red changes anything about it.

    Logging out forever.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Again, it's not about simply changing the game, it's about giving those that rush an episode an advantage over those that don't.

    That's not a problem ... that's how the market is intended to work so that there is a equilibrium in the supply of mats;

    Care to explain? Because i've just started to think the gist of the communication problem here is that your arguments seem to be based on the fact that you don't understand the terms you are using.
    (Hint: the situation maddoctor is talking about has nothing to do with market equlibrium. One does not affect the other.)

    By the way, do not think i haven't noticed you haven't yet answered my question about what you think was Anet's gain here.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    My concern is this turning into a common trait every new episode release, which in turn makes it so I don’t feel like playing the episode and thus slowly finding some other game to play, I guess. Which is sad, since I’ve been playing this franchise since 2005 and this is the first time the game has made me feel this way.

    I don't see why, it's the not the first time content has affected prices of mats people want to buy on the TP.

    Not sure honestly. I didn’t freak out when the price of mystic coins went up. Though there are reliable ways of obtaining those too. The same can’t be said for this sigil.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    That just doesn't make sense. You could work on this collection at your leisure as well. The mechanics of obtaining this armor are so similar to crafting, the result would have been the same. You literally dump items into a thing to get some armor ... crafting works the same way. You dump items into a 'thing' called a recipe and you get armor. The only difference is that the recipe here is contained in an object. You're just grasping at straws with pedantic arguments here.

    I don't recall crafting anything in game that required me to sit back and hope I get the result I intended.. this is not crafting this is largely reliant on yourself or others to dance round the lucky loser pole many, many times before the RNG Gods take pity.

    You don't have to do this here either. You feed the necessary mats, you get the skin. No RNG involved. The sigil is available 100% of the time, either from obtaining it yourself while leveling or buying off the TP. You only suffer RNG if you CHOOSE to obtain the sigil that way.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    That's not a problem ... that's how the market is intended to work so that there is a equilibrium in the supply of mats; that's not going to change and it's not new. In fact, it's necessary for the market to function.

    You don't like people having an advantage, but you play an MMO where people who have more time have the natural advantage in the game. That's not something that can or should be avoided. You're thinking boils down to sour grapes; you have this ideal that everything is equal; it's not. That's not unique to GW2 either. That's any game I've ever played.

    As I said multiple times, this has nothing to do with the market, they could've added a NEW item in the NEW zone, make it as rare as they wanted (to make it expensive) and I wouldn't care about it at all.

    Except that's not being truthful because if the sigil didn't change price, people wouldn't be complaining about this content. It comes down to how you spend time in game ... and the people complaining aren't willing to spend the time ingame to do any of the paths available to them to get the sigil. There isn't an incentive to rush through the content here ... Anyone could obtain the sigils independent of their timing to do the content. People are just angry because they feel they missed out, which is unreasonable because it's the nature of MMOs and no different here in a player-driven market. If you play this game, it's something you accept because it's intended to function this way.

    You just validated exactly what I wrote.. thanks.
    As I said it is largely something that is reliant on either others obtaining it for you or getting lucky. Not everyone wants to go rerolling toons 25 times to get sigils, that is just crazy stupid so yes you either rely on others or you get very lucky.. very lucky.
    And because there is a starved supply it means if everyone wanted to use your idea of "TP is the go to means", they can't.. either because they do not have the in game or RL resource to buy them or more to the point there isn't enough supply to be able to get them... so for many it is simply a waiting game, and likely a long one for many if the completion numbers are anything to go by.... perhaps your finally beginning to understand the real crux of this terrabad front centre content killer.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Again, it's not about simply changing the game, it's about giving those that rush an episode an advantage over those that don't.

    That's not a problem ... that's how the market is intended to work so that there is a equilibrium in the supply of mats;

    Care to explain? Because i've just started to think the gist of the communication problem here is that your arguments seem to be based on the fact that you don't understand the terms you are using.
    (Hint: the situation maddoctor is talking about has nothing to do with market equlibrium. One does not affect the other.)

    By the way, do not think i haven't noticed you haven't yet answered my question about what you think was Anet's gain here.

    I’m also wondering why the other items didn’t skyrocket in price. Maybe because there are other reliable methods to obtain these items...

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Again, it's not about simply changing the game, it's about giving those that rush an episode an advantage over those that don't.

    That's not a problem ... that's how the market is intended to work so that there is a equilibrium in the supply of mats;

    Care to explain? Because i've just started to think the gist of the communication problem here is that your arguments seem to be based on the fact that you don't understand the terms you are using.
    (Hint: the situation maddoctor is talking about has nothing to do with market equlibrium. One does not affect the other.)

    By the way, do not think i haven't noticed you haven't yet answered my question about what you think was Anet's gain here.

    Forgive my intruding, but if using terms accurately is important then we waste time talking about the studio's realized gain. We have no way to measure their realized gain. We can with a high level of confidence, describe their intended gains.
    Their number one intention was to control the rate at which players completed the collection by gating access with RNG and the market. The studio can profit from market gating.

    Are you harboring confidence in a different theory of the studio's intent? Do you suspect something more sinister?

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along to quantum cuddle clocks

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2018

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    My concern is this turning into a common trait every new episode release, which in turn makes it so I don’t feel like playing the episode and thus slowly finding some other game to play, I guess. Which is sad, since I’ve been playing this franchise since 2005 and this is the first time the game has made me feel this way.

    I don't see why, it's the not the first time content has affected prices of mats people want to buy on the TP.

    Not sure honestly. I didn’t freak out when the price of mystic coins went up. Though there are reliable ways of obtaining those too. The same can’t be said for this sigil.

    Mystic coins supply is steady and dependant. You don't really pay for MCs. You pay to get them faster, which is one of the points that tones the arguments down. Still, even with them, the situation was so out of control that Anet was eventually forced to intervene, adding new supply sources of them to the game. And they were never even close to the Sigil levels of restricted supply.

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Forgive my intruding, but if using terms accurately is important then we waste time talking about the studio's realized gain. We have no way to measure their realized gain. We can with a high level of confidence, describe their intended gains.
    Their number one intention was to control the rate at which players completed the collection by gating access with RNG and the market. The studio can profit from market gating.

    Are you harboring confidence in a different theory of the studio's intent? Do you suspect something more sinister?

    No, i simply do not agree with you, because i see no point in it. There's no gain in controlling the rate of completing the collection. No profit to be had here. Quite the opposite - it makes a number of players that would otherwise be playing said content disinterested with it and abandon the collection completely.

    So, again, how exactly are they benefitting from the situation?

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Their number one intention was to control the rate at which players completed the collection by gating access with RNG and the market. The studio can profit from market gating.

    I believe they've been trying to find new ways of gating collections through the Living World episodes.
    Istan has the brandstone grind to get the new weapon skins.
    Sandswept has the IG collection that takes you to lots of different places even outside the map
    Kourna has the turret collection
    Now we have the Requiem collection

    Notice how all of the above are meant not to simply gate the collections acquisition (turrets aren't even a collection) but keep players playing on the new map. And I understand this kind of reasoning, they want to find ways to keep players playing the new maps for as long as possible. Even the Requiem collection (outside the sigil) serves that same purpose. But there is no way to get the sigil from that map, it doesn't bring players together to play in the new zone, unlike all the other methods. Instead it sends players away, as there are better gold farms in the game.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2018

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Again, it's not about simply changing the game, it's about giving those that rush an episode an advantage over those that don't.

    That's not a problem ... that's how the market is intended to work so that there is a equilibrium in the supply of mats;

    Care to explain? Because i've just started to think the gist of the communication problem here is that your arguments seem to be based on the fact that you don't understand the terms you are using.
    (Hint: the situation maddoctor is talking about has nothing to do with market equlibrium. One does not affect the other.)

    By the way, do not think i haven't noticed you haven't yet answered my question about what you think was Anet's gain here.

    Don't worry, I have no plans to answer questions I can't give good answers for. I don't know what their gain is because I don't know why they made this content. Maybe they think people want some kind of armor between legendary and 'regular' with some kind of flashy lights, so they gave it in a fitting storyline kind of way instead of just throwing it in the GS or some other lame approach. I don't have data to understand 'gain'; it's a pretty enigmatic term you've decided to latch on here. What I do know; there ARE people that are not frustrated or dissatisfied with the way this content is implemented because it's not a unique thing to buy mats off the TP to get something you want in a crafting/forging like way.

    As for explaining 'equilibrium', that's basically what you get when you have steady in and out of mats, which is balanced by price. So basically ... when mats build up in supply, prices goes down, when mats get scarce, price goes up. Somewhere in the middle is a price where people are happy to buy and sell around the same amount, the number of mats that enter and leave are about equal. BOttomline ... when people dictate the prices, you get that equilibrium because at some point, people looking to buy find people willing to sell at a maximum ... the point of equilibrium. I think Anet has a measure for that and when they see it's not being achieved, they act, like in the case of leather/Doric Lake. I'm probably not describing it with the most economic of terms here ... that's not my gig, but the concept is similar to other fields.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Don't worry, I have no plans to answer questions I can't give good answers for. I don't know what their gain is because I don't know why they made this content. Maybe they think people want some kind of armor between legendary and 'regular' with some kind of flashy lights, so they gave it in a fitting storyline kind of way instead of just throwing it in the GS or some other lame approach. I don't have data to understand 'gain'; it's a pretty enigmatic term you've decided to latch on here. What I do know; there ARE people that are not frustrated or dissatisfied with the way this content is implemented because it's not a unique thing to buy mats off the TP to get something you want in a crafting/forging like way.

    In other words, you have no idea what they wanted to accomplish, and you don't know whether they accomplished it or not. Thus, you really have no basis whatsoever to claim they couldn't have made a mistake in this case. You simply assume so, without having anything to back it up.

    As for explaining 'equilibrium', that's basically what you get when you have steady in and out of mats, which is balanced by price. So basically ... when mats build up in supply, prices goes down, when mats get scarce, price goes up. Somewhere in the middle is a price where people are happy to buy and sell around the same amount, the number of mats that enter and leave are about equal. BOttomline ... when people dictate the prices, you get that equilibrium because at some point, people looking to buy find people willing to sell at a maximum ... the point of equilibrium. I think Anet has a measure for that and when they see it's not being achieved, they act, like in the case of leather/Doric Lake. I'm probably not describing it with the most economic of terms here ... that's not my gig, but the concept is similar to other fields.

    But this has absolutely nothing to with allowing a small number of players to control the market by the grace of being the first few to finish the content (by using a material that is relatively easy to be controlled, due to low initial price and extremely limited supply). It also has nothing to do with encouraging rushing through the content in order to be in that small abovementioned group of people that will profit, instead of the much bigger group of those that will lose out by being late.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Arlette.9684Arlette.9684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2018

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    If you play this game, it's something you accept because it's intended to function this way.

    This is nonsense. This is the first episode that they did this. This is the first time they rewarded rushers like this, this is the first time they added extra rewards for those that started the collection early and benefited by buying the sigils and then selling them at a higher price. I don't accept this situation and I don't accept that MMORPGs intend to function this way when this is the first time in 6 years that Anet pulled off something like this.

    This is not the first time. A similar thing happened when they released Mawdrey but the degree of change was less.

    Imgur
    Imgur

    There has been other as well(there has been several cases of "if only I acted I could have made a pile of gold) I remember this specific one because there was someone in LA chat recommending people to flip the item.

    Cuz we still had John Smith at the helm and he had an idea of where to drive the economy and by how much. Welcome to the Lehman Bros now featured in GW2 straight from the white collar prison. :lol:

    Vae Victus!
    [Hcm] Promotraitor

  • @TwiceDead.1963 said:
    Wow, this is still going?

    I have nothing to contribute. Carry on.

    It's still going because Anet hasn't fixed the problem or even had the balls to say "we wanted this to happen, suck it nerds".

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    They would have been better off having mystic coins as part of the collection or some T6 material instead. Would the price jump up? Sure, a bit, nothing ludicrous, though, much like the other materials in this collection. No one would have bought the entire stock of coins.

    The best thing is, they kind of did. Amalgamated gemstones are required too (as are ecto, quite a lot of them I believe since buying the other two sets requires only ecto and mistonium), but their prices barely changed because... let's see here... you can get those for yourself just by playing the game without kowtowing to the robber barons. Sure is a coincidence, that.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2018

    @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

    @TwiceDead.1963 said:
    Wow, this is still going?

    I have nothing to contribute. Carry on.

    It's still going because Anet hasn't fixed the problem or even had the balls to say "we wanted this to happen, suck it nerds".

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    They would have been better off having mystic coins as part of the collection or some T6 material instead. Would the price jump up? Sure, a bit, nothing ludicrous, though, much like the other materials in this collection. No one would have bought the entire stock of coins.

    The best thing is, they kind of did. Amalgamated gemstones are required too (as are ecto, quite a lot of them I believe since buying the other two sets requires only ecto and mistonium), but their prices barely changed because... let's see here... you can get those for yourself just by playing the game without kowtowing to the robber barons. Sure is a coincidence, that.

    Sure but AMA gems and mystic coins have a reliable source. This sigil doesn’t. The items in this collection have reliable sources, but the sigil.

  • @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

    @TwiceDead.1963 said:
    Wow, this is still going?

    I have nothing to contribute. Carry on.

    It's still going because Anet hasn't fixed the problem or even had the balls to say "we wanted this to happen, suck it nerds".

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    They would have been better off having mystic coins as part of the collection or some T6 material instead. Would the price jump up? Sure, a bit, nothing ludicrous, though, much like the other materials in this collection. No one would have bought the entire stock of coins.

    The best thing is, they kind of did. Amalgamated gemstones are required too (as are ecto, quite a lot of them I believe since buying the other two sets requires only ecto and mistonium), but their prices barely changed because... let's see here... you can get those for yourself just by playing the game without kowtowing to the robber barons. Sure is a coincidence, that.

    Sure but AMA gems and mystic coins have a reliable source. This sigil doesn’t. The items in this collection have reliable sources, but the sigil.

    That was the point I was making, yes.

  • @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    To anybody in WvW who wants this armor: Your glow is always orange, so it is a bit meh in there.

    excuuuuuuuuse me the glow on my boots is blue just as I painted it, even on desert borderland (the map where lightining screws alot with dying of the boots making them all gold in some angles instead of blueish-black with gold hints) :P

    Well, there may be slight variations in hue if you have the right colors. I'm red, but I have a bright yellow in WvW and no shade of red changes anything about it.

    well my blue seems be unaffected, but the metal bits seems very poorly painting with dark colours (it will make no difference between midnight blue, shadow abyss, midnight red and basically everything in this side of scale. While still being much brighter than the same colour on literally-every-other-armor-piece :/

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    No, i simply do not agree with you, because i see no point in it. There's no gain in controlling the rate of completing the collection. No profit to be had here.

    Just because you don't see the point does not mean there is none. Just saying.

    aside from most recent implementation of gating content that is being mostly discussed in this thread giving backlash there is at least one "benefit" of controling how many and how fast players are completing the collections: namely, studio controls how much time absolutely minimum it takes before they get hugeload of people complaining again how there is "nothing left in game to do". and if you were paying attention AN is playing with different waysof time-resource-whatever-gating of certain collections in living story at the very least since season 3.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Notice how all of the above are meant not to simply gate the collections acquisition (turrets aren't even a collection) but keep players playing on the new map. And I understand this kind of reasoning, they want to find ways to keep players playing the new maps for as long as possible. Even the Requiem collection (outside the sigil) serves that same purpose. But there is no way to get the sigil from that map, it doesn't bring players together to play in the new zone, unlike all the other methods. Instead it sends players away, as there are better gold farms in the game.

    that gave me an idea: what if there is "reliable" way of getting those sigils hidden somewhere on the map itself, but hidden in such a place that no one found it just yet, and silence of AN on this aspect is because of them waiting for us to find it? imagines one of AN devs reading the thread with popcorn in hand shouting at monitor "if ya scrubs have spent half the time you are arguing in here on looking you'd find it already!"

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    aside from most recent implementation of gating content that is being mostly discussed in this thread giving backlash there is at least one "benefit" of controling how many and how fast players are completing the collections: namely, studio controls how much time absolutely minimum it takes before they get hugeload of people complaining again how there is "nothing left in game to do". and if you were paying attention AN is playing with different waysof time-resource-whatever-gating of certain collections in living story at the very least since season 3.

    Finishing everything and then waiting to acquire the sigils only also leads to "nothing left in game to do". Getting the sigils isn't content, you farm for them, still nothing new to do. The way the collection is set-up, is also disrupting the flow of the map itself. Play on the new map until you hit the paywall of the sigil, go away of the map to farm the sigil (either leveling or farming in Istan/SW to buy it), go back to the zone, progress the collection again until you hit the next paywall, leave the map again to go farm for the sigil, rinse repeat til the collection is finished. The latest episode has a terrible flow in it, previous map rewards were designed in a way to keep you playing on the new episode maps, farming new currencies, but now the main farming part is away of the zone itself. Not a good way to keep players interested in the new zone at all.

    that gave me an idea: what if there is "reliable" way of getting those sigils hidden somewhere on the map itself, but hidden in such a place that no one found it just yet, and silence of AN on this aspect is because of them waiting for us to find it? imagines one of AN devs reading the thread with popcorn in hand shouting at monitor "if ya scrubs have spent half the time you are arguing in here on looking you'd find it already!"

    That would be hilarious if true :)

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭

    To give a positive change of the sigil spike.
    My brother started playing the game a few months ago. Yesterday he had like 4 gold on his name Imagine the joy when he realized the bow arc that dropped for him was worth 10g

    And can people please stop conflating reliable personal source with a reliable source.

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    My concern is this turning into a common trait every new episode release, which in turn makes it so I don’t feel like playing the episode and thus slowly finding some other game to play, I guess. Which is sad, since I’ve been playing this franchise since 2005 and this is the first time the game has made me feel this way.

    I don't see why, it's the not the first time content has affected prices of mats people want to buy on the TP.

    Not sure honestly. I didn’t freak out when the price of mystic coins went up. Though there are reliable ways of obtaining those too. The same can’t be said for this sigil.

    Mystic coins supply is steady and dependant. You don't really pay for MCs. You pay to get them faster, which is one of the points that tones the arguments down. Still, even with them, the situation was so out of control that Anet was eventually forced to intervene, adding new supply sources of them to the game. And they were never even close to the Sigil levels of restricted supply.

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Forgive my intruding, but if using terms accurately is important then we waste time talking about the studio's realized gain. We have no way to measure their realized gain. We can with a high level of confidence, describe their intended gains.
    Their number one intention was to control the rate at which players completed the collection by gating access with RNG and the market. The studio can profit from market gating.

    Are you harboring confidence in a different theory of the studio's intent? Do you suspect something more sinister?

    No, i simply do not agree with you, because i see no point in it. There's no gain in controlling the rate of completing the collection. No profit to be had here. Quite the opposite - it makes a number of players that would otherwise be playing said content disinterested with it and abandon the collection completely.

    So, again, how exactly are they benefitting from the situation?

    Thank you for responding. Forgive me for calling your bluff, but you must offer your own hypothesis for the studio's intended gain. If we discount the (obvious to any gamer or Tyrian disinterested in tearing down the studio) intended gain from controlling the rate of reward production and market gating then we are left with your vague suspicions that the studio has sinister intent and a way to gain from being sinister.

    Or...

    Are you suggesting that the intended gains I am describing do not correspond to the realized gains resulting in a 'mistake' or 'misjudgement'?

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along to quantum cuddle clocks

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2018

    @yann.1946 said:
    To give a positive change of the sigil spike.
    My brother started playing the game a few months ago. Yesterday he had like 4 gold on his name Imagine the joy when he realized the bow arc that dropped for him was worth 10g

    And can people please stop conflating reliable personal source with a reliable source.

    No, because that is where we find the competitive market as well as the handshake between the studio and every individual Tyrian. Conflating does not mean comparing and contrasting, the overwhelming majority of us from both sides of the discussion are comparing and contrasting, not conflating.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along to quantum cuddle clocks

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Their number one intention was to control the rate at which players completed the collection by gating access with RNG and the market. The studio can profit from market gating.

    I believe they've been trying to find new ways of gating collections through the Living World episodes.
    Istan has the brandstone grind to get the new weapon skins.
    Sandswept has the IG collection that takes you to lots of different places even outside the map
    Kourna has the turret collection
    Now we have the Requiem collection

    Notice how all of the above are meant not to simply gate the collections acquisition (turrets aren't even a collection) but keep players playing on the new map. And I understand this kind of reasoning, they want to find ways to keep players playing the new maps for as long as possible. Even the Requiem collection (outside the sigil) serves that same purpose. But there is no way to get the sigil from that map, it doesn't bring players together to play in the new zone, unlike all the other methods. Instead it sends players away, as there are better gold farms in the game.

    Calling it the number one intention was/is lazy. Controlling the production rate is a primary consideration and since controlling the production rate of rewards is morally ambiguous, how it is accomplished describes art.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along to quantum cuddle clocks

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psientist.6437 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Their number one intention was to control the rate at which players completed the collection by gating access with RNG and the market. The studio can profit from market gating.

    I believe they've been trying to find new ways of gating collections through the Living World episodes.
    Istan has the brandstone grind to get the new weapon skins.
    Sandswept has the IG collection that takes you to lots of different places even outside the map
    Kourna has the turret collection
    Now we have the Requiem collection

    Notice how all of the above are meant not to simply gate the collections acquisition (turrets aren't even a collection) but keep players playing on the new map. And I understand this kind of reasoning, they want to find ways to keep players playing the new maps for as long as possible. Even the Requiem collection (outside the sigil) serves that same purpose. But there is no way to get the sigil from that map, it doesn't bring players together to play in the new zone, unlike all the other methods. Instead it sends players away, as there are better gold farms in the game.

    Calling it the number one intention was/is lazy. Controlling the production rate is a primary consideration and since controlling the production rate of rewards is morally ambiguous, how it is accomplished describes art.

    Huh I didn't call it number one intention that's what you did, I simply compared the different methods used on different episodes for gating access. Only one method sent players away.

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2018

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Their number one intention was to control the rate at which players completed the collection by gating access with RNG and the market. The studio can profit from market gating.

    I believe they've been trying to find new ways of gating collections through the Living World episodes.
    Istan has the brandstone grind to get the new weapon skins.
    Sandswept has the IG collection that takes you to lots of different places even outside the map
    Kourna has the turret collection
    Now we have the Requiem collection

    Notice how all of the above are meant not to simply gate the collections acquisition (turrets aren't even a collection) but keep players playing on the new map. And I understand this kind of reasoning, they want to find ways to keep players playing the new maps for as long as possible. Even the Requiem collection (outside the sigil) serves that same purpose. But there is no way to get the sigil from that map, it doesn't bring players together to play in the new zone, unlike all the other methods. Instead it sends players away, as there are better gold farms in the game.

    Calling it the number one intention was/is lazy. Controlling the production rate is a primary consideration and since controlling the production rate of rewards is morally ambiguous, how it is accomplished describes art.

    Huh I didn't call it number one intention that's what you did, I simply compared the different methods used on different episodes for gating access. Only one method sent players away.

    I was/am calling myself lazy, not you.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along to quantum cuddle clocks

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psientist.6437 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    To give a positive change of the sigil spike.
    My brother started playing the game a few months ago. Yesterday he had like 4 gold on his name Imagine the joy when he realized the bow arc that dropped for him was worth 10g

    And can people please stop conflating reliable personal source with a reliable source.

    No, because that is where we find the competitive market as well as the handshake between the studio and every individual Tyrian. Conflating does not mean comparing and contrasting, the overwhelming majority of us from both sides of the discussion are comparing and contrasting, not conflating.

    We'll then a lot of people are lying when they say their is no reliable source. As long as enough people are playing a consistent amount of sigils get generated.

    If course this is not true on a personal level.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2018

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    The studio can not 'mess up' for six years and have that 'mess up' be that severe of a 'mess up'. Your entire argument, that the studio is simply incompetent, tries to stand on an impossible proposition.

    Oh,can't they? What about the collection items and assault/defence event case? They keep repeating that mistake over and over again, even though they already knew this is a problem years ago. And have made this mistake not once, not twice, but many times over.

    So, yes, they very much can repeat known mistakes for years. It's not only not impossible, but it's something that actually does happen.

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Thank you for responding. Forgive me for calling your bluff, but you must offer your own hypothesis for the studio's intended gain. If we discount the (obvious to any gamer or Tyrian disinterested in tearing down the studio) intended gain from controlling the rate of reward production and market gating then we are left with your vague suspicions that the studio has sinister intent and a way to gain from being sinister.

    Or...

    Are you suggesting that the intended gains I am describing do not correspond to the realized gains resulting in a 'mistake' or 'misjudgement'?

    No, i suggest that there are no gains, because it was not intentional - i am sure they simply messed up. That they picked this item not due to some strategy, but purely for narrativic reasons, and that they forgot to check for potential market consequences. Like they did many times before. It is of course possible that i am mistaken, and they do get something out of it, but so far not only me, but noone was able to say what it might be.

    Any other option i can think of requires Anet to be either actively malicious, or intending to hurt their own business, and both of those i consider to be quite ridiculous.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭

    At the risk of pretending to speak for the studio...

    If we keep the production of recipe items constrained with a zone, we increase the probability that our design forces a player to do something they don't want to do. > @yann.1946 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    To give a positive change of the sigil spike.
    My brother started playing the game a few months ago. Yesterday he had like 4 gold on his name Imagine the joy when he realized the bow arc that dropped for him was worth 10g

    And can people please stop conflating reliable personal source with a reliable source.

    No, because that is where we find the competitive market as well as the handshake between the studio and every individual Tyrian. Conflating does not mean comparing and contrasting, the overwhelming majority of us from both sides of the discussion are comparing and contrasting, not conflating.

    We'll then a lot of people are lying when they say their is no reliable source. As long as enough people are playing a consistent amount of sigils get generated.

    If course this is not true on a personal level.

    Not lying, just speaking from a place where earning themselves has tremendous personal value.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along to quantum cuddle clocks

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    The studio can not 'mess up' for six years and have that 'mess up' be that severe of a 'mess up'. Your entire argument, that the studio is simply incompetent, tries to stand on an impossible proposition.

    Oh,can't they? What about the collection items and assault/defence event case? They keep repeating that mistake over and over again, even though they already knew this is a problem years ago. And have made this mistake not once, not twice, but many times over.

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Thank you for responding. Forgive me for calling your bluff, but you must offer your own hypothesis for the studio's intended gain. If we discount the (obvious to any gamer or Tyrian disinterested in tearing down the studio) intended gain from controlling the rate of reward production and market gating then we are left with your vague suspicions that the studio has sinister intent and a way to gain from being sinister.

    Or...

    Are you suggesting that the intended gains I am describing do not correspond to the realized gains resulting in a 'mistake' or 'misjudgement'?

    No, i suggest that there are no gains, because it was not intentional - i am sure they simply messed up. That they picked this item not due to some strategy, but purely for narrativic reasons, and that they forgot to check for potential market consequences. Like they did many times before. It is of course possible that i am mistaken, and they do get something out of it, but so far not only me, but noone was able to say what it might be.

    When the game was first released, the studio posted a video from the data analytics team demonstrating how much data the game generated and how easily they could query that data set. The studio knows the supply of any item and can place that item within a relative matrix of every other item. If we take the supply of any item and divide it by the number needed for a reward recipe, we get the production rate. If the studio failed to do that calculation, then they did not make a mistake, they committed malpractice.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along to quantum cuddle clocks

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    At the risk of pretending to speak for the studio...

    If we keep the production of recipe items constrained with a zone, we increase the probability that our design forces a player to do something they don't want to do. > @yann.1946 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    To give a positive change of the sigil spike.
    My brother started playing the game a few months ago. Yesterday he had like 4 gold on his name Imagine the joy when he realized the bow arc that dropped for him was worth 10g

    And can people please stop conflating reliable personal source with a reliable source.

    No, because that is where we find the competitive market as well as the handshake between the studio and every individual Tyrian. Conflating does not mean comparing and contrasting, the overwhelming majority of us from both sides of the discussion are comparing and contrasting, not conflating.

    We'll then a lot of people are lying when they say their is no reliable source. As long as enough people are playing a consistent amount of sigils get generated.

    If course this is not true on a personal level.

    Not lying, just speaking from a place where earning themselves has tremendous personal value.

    But then they should say personal source not source. Otherwise we get discussions where people are arguing because they don't understand the point the other is making

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2018

    @Psientist.6437 said:

    No, i suggest that there are no gains, because it was not intentional - i am sure they simply messed up. That they picked this item not due to some strategy, but purely for narrativic reasons, and that they forgot to check for potential market consequences. Like they did many times before. It is of course possible that i am mistaken, and they do get something out of it, but so far not only me, but noone was able to say what it might be.

    When the game was first released, the studio posted a video from the data analytics team demonstrating how much data the game generated and how easily they could query that data set. The studio knows the supply of any item and can place that item within a relative matrix of every other item. If we take the supply of any item and divide it by the number needed for a reward recipe, we get the production rate. If the studio failed to do that calculation, then they did not make a mistake, they committed malpractice.

    Nah, they simply didn't consider it relevant. There's always a ton of things to check, and is easy to forget about one or two. It's something that happens with each episode, and sometimes what they didn't check ends up being way more spectacular. Like "blocking progress bugs" or "map crash" kind of spectacular. Compared to those Sigil is peanuts.

    If you've ever worked on a major programming project, you would know that things like this are quite common.

    (and as for the difference between being able to query a data, and being able to understand and interpret that data, check their explanation for removal of Twilight Arbor Forward/UP path).

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2018

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:

    No, i suggest that there are no gains, because it was not intentional - i am sure they simply messed up. That they picked this item not due to some strategy, but purely for narrativic reasons, and that they forgot to check for potential market consequences. Like they did many times before. It is of course possible that i am mistaken, and they do get something out of it, but so far not only me, but noone was able to say what it might be.

    When the game was first released, the studio posted a video from the data analytics team demonstrating how much data the game generated and how easily they could query that data set. The studio knows the supply of any item and can place that item within a relative matrix of every other item. If we take the supply of any item and divide it by the number needed for a reward recipe, we get the production rate. If the studio failed to do that calculation, then they did not make a mistake, they committed malpractice.

    Nah, they simply didn't consider it relevant. There's always a ton of things to check, and is easy to forget about one or two. It's something that happens with each episode, and sometimes what they didn't check ends up being way more spectacular. Like "blocking progress bugs" or "map crash" kind of spectacular. Compared to those Sigil is peanuts.

    If you've ever worked on a major programming project, you would know that things like this are quite common.

    (and as for the difference between being able to query a data, and being able to understand and interpret that data, check their explanation for removal of Twilight Arbor Forward/UP path).

    I broadly agree except for one thing. The production rate of rewards is not a little thing. If the studio is defined as the center of gravity of an organized system of granular participants, then the most massive participants are preoccupied with the production rate of rewards.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along to quantum cuddle clocks

  • How is this still a problem? especially after having the Halloween festival and the lab farm for the past 3 weeks? Farming the lab has provided hundreds of gold for even the casual player who frequent's the farm once in awhile. Top that off with logging in getting 2g a day, free by the way and people still won't buy the sigil because of the price. Yeah it sucks we missed the 2s train but that's life, but this festival provided simple easy income to buy enough sigils two or three times over. A lot of people say it's not the price it's the fact that there are so few. Blah Blah Blah, I hope anet introduces a way to craft it that cost 10g mats, then we will see people's true colors. It's not the availability, it's the fact people are salty about the price.

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2018

    To the studio
    If player agency is the goal of economic determination then how does RNG enhance a player's agency? How does one find the most improbable thing without compelling that thing from some one else?

    A recipe matrix tied to a material supply matrix where materials are generated from participation and skill in adventures would allow for player agency as comparative advantage. This matrix could contain constrained RNG. The supply of common materials and the chance at rare materials would increase with skill. Each player would experience RNG and general progression as time.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along to quantum cuddle clocks

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    How is this still a problem? especially after having the Halloween festival and the lab farm for the past 3 weeks? Farming the lab has provided hundreds of gold for even the casual player who frequent's the farm once in awhile. Top that off with logging in getting 2g a day, free by the way and people still won't buy the sigil because of the price. Yeah it sucks we missed the 2s train but that's life, but this festival provided simple easy income to buy enough sigils two or three times over. A lot of people say it's not the price it's the fact that there are so few. Blah Blah Blah, I hope anet introduces a way to craft it that cost 10g mats, then we will see people's true colors. It's not the availability, it's the fact people are salty about the price.

    Yes, everything could be about the price. This forum and every fan curated venue could teem with gold earning guides. Gold could be our narrative soul.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along to quantum cuddle clocks

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭

    To the studio

    I want to have done enough to sufficiently demonstrate my unwillingness to tear down the studio and therefore faith in, to make asking the following apropos.

    May the exchange Ai calculate future value? In the context of economic determination that is an important question.

    If we except the demanded patience of putting our important current sea's calculated pegger on the trade floor and the one magnitude change needed in the priced label of goods carried within the important place market, would we get fewer extreme events? Would extreme event qualities remain except that of the extremist? In the context of economic determination that is an important question.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along to quantum cuddle clocks

  • 42 pages
    1600 post
    not a single answer.

    i abandoned hope , forgot map and moved on. it's a pity cause i loved it .

    it's a "don't you have phones?" move .

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2018

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    How is this still a problem? especially after having the Halloween festival and the lab farm for the past 3 weeks? Farming the lab has provided hundreds of gold for even the casual player who frequent's the farm once in awhile. Top that off with logging in getting 2g a day, free by the way and people still won't buy the sigil because of the price. Yeah it sucks we missed the 2s train but that's life, but this festival provided simple easy income to buy enough sigils two or three times over. A lot of people say it's not the price it's the fact that there are so few. Blah Blah Blah, I hope anet introduces a way to craft it that cost 10g mats, then we will see people's true colors. It's not the availability, it's the fact people are salty about the price.

    I think giving people reliable options to obtain the sigil would be a good way to go, much like everything else in the game.

  • xenon.3264xenon.3264 Member ✭✭
    edited November 4, 2018

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    S> @Hanth.2978 said:

    How is this still a problem? especially after having the Halloween festival and the lab farm for the past 3 weeks? Farming the lab has provided hundreds of gold for even the casual player who frequent's the farm once in awhile. Top that off with logging in getting 2g a day, free by the way and people still won't buy the sigil because of the price. Yeah it sucks we missed the 2s train but that's life, but this festival provided simple easy income to buy enough sigils two or three times over. A lot of people say it's not the price it's the fact that there are so few. Blah Blah Blah, I hope anet introduces a way to craft it that cost 10g mats, then we will see people's true colors. It's not the availability, it's the fact people are salty about the price.

    you keep on missing the point:

    it's not the price itself but the fact the the gold would go to tp flippers. let it be craftable with icy runestone. 10 gold each. i just crafted my koda warmth i'd be ok with that

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    To the studio

    I want to have done enough to sufficiently demonstrate my unwillingness to tear down the studio and therefore faith in, to make asking the following apropos.

    May the exchange Ai calculate future value? In the context of economic determination that is an important question.

    If we except the demanded patience of putting our important current sea's calculated pegger on the trade floor and the one magnitude change needed in the priced label of goods carried within the important place market, would we get fewer extreme events? Would extreme event qualities remain except that of the extremist? In the context of economic determination that is an important question.

    Sorry, I’m trying to figure out what your trying to say here.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    How is this still a problem? especially after having the Halloween festival and the lab farm for the past 3 weeks? Farming the lab has provided hundreds of gold for even the casual player who frequent's the farm once in awhile. Top that off with logging in getting 2g a day, free by the way and people still won't buy the sigil because of the price. Yeah it sucks we missed the 2s train but that's life, but this festival provided simple easy income to buy enough sigils two or three times over. A lot of people say it's not the price it's the fact that there are so few. Blah Blah Blah, I hope anet introduces a way to craft it that cost 10g mats, then we will see people's true colors. It's not the availability, it's the fact people are salty about the price.

    How to completely jump into a thread and miss the point .. not by a little bit, but by a country mile.
    Lets all login, use our gold and buy the sigils we all need.... ooh wait, we can't, but, but I got my gold, here take it...

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭

    @xenon.3264 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    S> @Hanth.2978 said:

    How is this still a problem? especially after having the Halloween festival and the lab farm for the past 3 weeks? Farming the lab has provided hundreds of gold for even the casual player who frequent's the farm once in awhile. Top that off with logging in getting 2g a day, free by the way and people still won't buy the sigil because of the price. Yeah it sucks we missed the 2s train but that's life, but this festival provided simple easy income to buy enough sigils two or three times over. A lot of people say it's not the price it's the fact that there are so few. Blah Blah Blah, I hope anet introduces a way to craft it that cost 10g mats, then we will see people's true colors. It's not the availability, it's the fact people are salty about the price.


    you keep on missing the point:

    it's not the price itself but the fact the the gold would go to tp flippers. let it be craftable with icy runestone. 10 gold each. i just crafted my koda warmth i'd be ok with that

    Isn't the initial supply that was bought up already back in the economy?
    The change that flippers would be the ones you're buying from is pretty low.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    aside from most recent implementation of gating content that is being mostly discussed in this thread giving backlash there is at least one "benefit" of controling how many and how fast players are completing the collections: namely, studio controls how much time absolutely minimum it takes before they get hugeload of people complaining again how there is "nothing left in game to do". and if you were paying attention AN is playing with different waysof time-resource-whatever-gating of certain collections in living story at the very least since season 3.

    Finishing everything and then waiting to acquire the sigils only also leads to "nothing left in game to do". Getting the sigils isn't content, you farm for them, still nothing new to do. The way the collection is set-up, is also disrupting the flow of the map itself. Play on the new map until you hit the paywall of the sigil, go away of the map to farm the sigil (either leveling or farming in Istan/SW to buy it), go back to the zone, progress the collection again until you hit the next paywall, leave the map again to go farm for the sigil, rinse repeat til the collection is finished. The latest episode has a terrible flow in it, previous map rewards were designed in a way to keep you playing on the new episode maps, farming new currencies, but now the main farming part is away of the zone itself. Not a good way to keep players interested in the new zone at all.

    that gave me an idea: what if there is "reliable" way of getting those sigils hidden somewhere on the map itself, but hidden in such a place that no one found it just yet, and silence of AN on this aspect is because of them waiting for us to find it? imagines one of AN devs reading the thread with popcorn in hand shouting at monitor "if ya scrubs have spent half the time you are arguing in here on looking you'd find it already!"

    That would be hilarious if true :)

    I'd settle for them reading this and stealth patching it in now, then claiming it had been there all along ;)

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    How is this still a problem? especially after having the Halloween festival and the lab farm for the past 3 weeks? Farming the lab has provided hundreds of gold for even the casual player who frequent's the farm once in awhile. Top that off with logging in getting 2g a day, free by the way and people still won't buy the sigil because of the price. Yeah it sucks we missed the 2s train but that's life, but this festival provided simple easy income to buy enough sigils two or three times over. A lot of people say it's not the price it's the fact that there are so few. Blah Blah Blah, I hope anet introduces a way to craft it that cost 10g mats, then we will see people's true colors. It's not the availability, it's the fact people are salty about the price.

    The fact that pretty much anyone could have earned the gold by now should be a strong indicator to you that price is not the issue. It's weird to me how many ppl have trouble connecting those dots . . .

    I'm so confident that price is not the issue that I am willing to double doggy dare anet to introduce a recipe that requires 10g in mats and see if it doesn't in fact fix the problem . . .

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭

    @yann.1946 said:

    @xenon.3264 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    S> @Hanth.2978 said:

    How is this still a problem? especially after having the Halloween festival and the lab farm for the past 3 weeks? Farming the lab has provided hundreds of gold for even the casual player who frequent's the farm once in awhile. Top that off with logging in getting 2g a day, free by the way and people still won't buy the sigil because of the price. Yeah it sucks we missed the 2s train but that's life, but this festival provided simple easy income to buy enough sigils two or three times over. A lot of people say it's not the price it's the fact that there are so few. Blah Blah Blah, I hope anet introduces a way to craft it that cost 10g mats, then we will see people's true colors. It's not the availability, it's the fact people are salty about the price.


    you keep on missing the point:

    it's not the price itself but the fact the the gold would go to tp flippers. let it be craftable with icy runestone. 10 gold each. i just crafted my koda warmth i'd be ok with that

    Isn't the initial supply that was bought up already back in the economy?
    The change that flippers would be the ones you're buying from is pretty low.

    I think there is some evidence to support the theory that some actors are still attempting to keep the price inflated, though it is surprising to discover it. Regardless, I would agree, not buying the sigils off the tp bc you don't want your gold to go to 'bad ppl' doesn't make much sense this far in. You'd pretty much have to stop using the tp entirely . . .

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