Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged] - Page 35 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged]

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Comments

  • @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    So, perhaps, unlike some people claimed, all fo this wasn't intended after all.

    (and yes, they will definitely need to create a recipe for Nullification, seeing as the main current source for it is salvaging random drops, which will stop giving sigils after the patch)

    It's still intended to be implemented the way it is ... AFAIK, they aren't removing the current approaches to get the sigil. I wouldn't get too excited yet people; I remember when precursor crafting was introduced and people complained it cost MORE to craft than it did to just buy off the TP ... and that was never changed (and I think it's STILL the case) ... But you're all going to tell me this isn't about cost again right? I will remember that.

    Not everyone cared about the costs though. Where the issue arose with me and a number of folks, had to do with where the gold was going. Had there been a flat npc cost then fine. Everyone is equally kitten regardless of due date. No chance, no fluctuations, simple and there, high or low. However, being kitten just because you took some time to soak the content in, and weren't fast enough feels entirely different. Would rather my gold disappear into the ether, then pay for such a blatant kitten over.

    Even if things go south and Anet messes it up, which would be amazing to see how. System still adds sigil salvaging, which means less will clog up my invo, which means I have less clicking if I go to sell. It's a positive no matter what happens far as i'm concerned.

  • Shikigami.4013Shikigami.4013 Member ✭✭✭

    Did noone notice that the official statement is contradicting itself? It explicitly states that it is about sigils that were ONLY available by salvaging, which inclides the Sigil of Nullification. But the Sigil of Nullification was not ONLY available from salvaging. Every char that reached level 64 could get one for free.

    YouTube “L2villagejester”.
    People using belittling wording like whining/qqing" are not taken seriously by me
    Same for people posting only to tell others not to post (“deal with it”-posts)

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2018

    @Shikigami.4013 said:

    Did noone notice that the official statement is contradicting itself? It explicitly states that it is about sigils that were ONLY available by salvaging, which inclides the Sigil of Nullification. But the Sigil of Nullification was not ONLY available from salvaging. Every char that reached level 64 could get one for free.

    I don't think Anet was expecting everyone to level up several characters to obtain several sigils of nullification for this collection. They were freebies in the leveling process.

  • Shikigami.4013Shikigami.4013 Member ✭✭✭

    Yes I don't think they expected everyone to do this either, and I also don't think everyone did it. That is not the point though. The word ONLY was the one word that was explicitly written in caps and italics, making it clearly the most important word of the statement. Just to be followed by mentioning a sigil that does not meet that description of ONLY being available through salvaging.

    YouTube “L2villagejester”.
    People using belittling wording like whining/qqing" are not taken seriously by me
    Same for people posting only to tell others not to post (“deal with it”-posts)

  • Shikigami.4013Shikigami.4013 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2018

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 Thanks. Not a reddit user so a clarification of a statement on THIS forum (in this thread, 1 page before) will be missed by me when made on reddit (your second quote) :)

    YouTube “L2villagejester”.
    People using belittling wording like whining/qqing" are not taken seriously by me
    Same for people posting only to tell others not to post (“deal with it”-posts)

  • @Shikigami.4013 said:
    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 Thanks. Not a reddit user so a clarification of a statement on THIS forum (in this thread, 1 page before) will be missed by me when made on reddit (your second quote) :)

    I keep hoping that someone at ANet will code a little tool to make it easier for ANet employees to publish their reddit quotes to the forums, either in the announcement section or to the parallel thread. For now, we have to rely on the kindness of other players to cross-post for us.

    By the way: I don't have a Reddit account; I just read the the /r/guildwars2 subreddit.
    However, if one of the reasons your not a reddit user is lack of time, you can limit yourself to...
    just posts by ANet employees, made in that subreddit

    Unless they do an AMA, it doesn't take long to see if there's anything you want to have a closer look at.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's great to see a solution in the works not just for this collection but also for junk runes & sigils generally, which could be seen as an even bigger problem depending on your perspective . . .

    Now if they can just work on their communication skills ;)

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well they are also new pvp armor coming out on November 13th, which also have glowy pieces and a combat activated effect as well. I might be skipping the Requiem Armor entirely, we will see.

  • Glider.5792Glider.5792 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Well they are also new pvp armor coming out on November 13th, which also have glowy pieces and a combat activated effect as well. I might be skipping the Requiem Armor entirely, we will see.

    Thats from monthly tournaments AFAIK. Sooooo, best of luck to you!

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeFWMeskOJhk8N-SvOFCJXA
    Fractal speed kills, raids, Black Lion Chest Openings, random.

  • Urud.4925Urud.4925 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2018

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Virtually all runes and sigils that were previously available from ONLY salvaging are receiving a recipe.

    That does include Sigil of Nullification.

    You guys are AWESOME! I knew you didn't ignore this (such as other) thread. And you didn't give us a "fix" but a whole revamp :smiley:
    I'm happy to see that you keep improving the game, even on old and settled things. Yesterday, it was so weird to sell on the TP the minor sigils that I got in the Labyrinth, rather than discard them as I usually did :)
    Ty ty :+1:

  • @Urud.4925 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Virtually all runes and sigils that were previously available from ONLY salvaging are receiving a recipe.

    That does include Sigil of Nullification.

    You guys are AWESOME! I knew you didn't ignore this (such as other) thread. And you didn't give us a "fix" but a whole revamp :smiley:
    I'm happy to see that you keep improving the game, even on old and settled things. Yesterday, it was so weird to sell on the TP the minor sigils that I got in the Labyrinth, rather than discard them as I usually did :)
    Ty ty :+1:

    Don't be so grateful YET. I don't know if you noticed but the crafting of a Sigil or a rune is related with a recipe. The recipe is a rare drop from Tyria. If this rare drop is equally rare as Sam for example (or the invisible shoes :# ), then we will be virtually without any source of Sigils (because the sigil is destroyed in the item salvaging process, returning you some materials). And wait to see the recipe itself - I won't be surprised if the total cost of a crafted Sigil of Nullification will be 5-10-15 times higher than the actual price on TP. A :-) And you need the material guaranteed to drop from salvage AND another one (a mark?) having also a chance to drop. How high is that chance?
    If this is true (I don't want - but I cannot stop thinking it can be), then the only source of Sigil of Nullification will be NOT the TP but the Gem Store: The price of the extractors has been changed - you can buy now 3 at the price of only one until now =)

    As a sidenote: Are the materials obtained by salvaging the sigils and runes marked as crafting materials - that means can we store the materials in deposit? And second: Can we salvage the sigils we have now? Or we can only sell them to vendors?

    Let's wait.

  • Urud.4925Urud.4925 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2018

    Hmm, do we already know that the recipes will be a rare drop? Anyway, this is an additional way to obtain the sigils, so the only source won't be the Gem Store. IN CASE of a very rare recipe, I would still be the same method we had so far. It can't be worse...

    Considering that basically all the MMOs keep increasing the level of RNG (Aion just introduced the RNG to find the entrance of dungeons), this change seems to go in the opposite direction. We still don't know how the recipes will work, true, but the intentions seem good (and I believe that if they decided to create the recipes ONLY for the sigils that were only available as random drop, then it's to reduce the RNG, and thus the prices).
    I know, maybe it's still early to celebrate, but I WANT TO BELIEVE!

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:

    @Urud.4925 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Virtually all runes and sigils that were previously available from ONLY salvaging are receiving a recipe.

    That does include Sigil of Nullification.

    You guys are AWESOME! I knew you didn't ignore this (such as other) thread. And you didn't give us a "fix" but a whole revamp :smiley:
    I'm happy to see that you keep improving the game, even on old and settled things. Yesterday, it was so weird to sell on the TP the minor sigils that I got in the Labyrinth, rather than discard them as I usually did :)
    Ty ty :+1:

    Don't be so grateful YET. I don't know if you noticed but the crafting of a Sigil or a rune is related with a recipe. The recipe is a rare drop from Tyria. If this rare drop is equally rare as Sam for example (or the invisible shoes :# ), then we will be virtually without any source of Sigils (because the sigil is destroyed in the item salvaging process, returning you some materials). And wait to see the recipe itself - I won't be surprised if the total cost of a crafted Sigil of Nullification will be 5-10-15 times higher than the actual price on TP. A :-) And you need the material guaranteed to drop from salvage AND another one (a mark?) having also a chance to drop. How high is that chance?
    If this is true (I don't want - but I cannot stop thinking it can be), then the only source of Sigil of Nullification will be NOT the TP but the Gem Store: The price of the extractors has been changed - you can buy now 3 at the price of only one until now =)

    As a sidenote: Are the materials obtained by salvaging the sigils and runes marked as crafting materials - that means can we store the materials in deposit? And second: Can we salvage the sigils we have now? Or we can only sell them to vendors?

    Let's wait.

    While it is true this could theoretically still be a catastrophe, it seems likely -- though yes, not guaranteed -- that it will increase the overall supply of sigils of nullification, which is the goal . . .

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Glider.5792 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Well they are also new pvp armor coming out on November 13th, which also have glowy pieces and a combat activated effect as well. I might be skipping the Requiem Armor entirely, we will see.

    Thats from monthly tournaments AFAIK. Sooooo, best of luck to you!

    It’s a reward from AT as well as being purchased.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9uqelx/arenanet_seems_to_have_accidentally_leaked_the/

  • @Urud.4925 said:
    Hmm, do we already know that the recipes will be a rare drop? Anyway, this is an additional way to obtain the sigils, so the only source won't be the Gem Store. IN CASE of a very rare recipe, I would still be the same method we had so far. It can't be worse...

    Considering that basically all the MMOs keep increasing the level of RNG (Aion just introduced the RNG to find the entrance of dungeons), this change seems to go in the opposite direction. We still don't know how the recipes will work, true, but the intentions seem good (and I believe that if they decided to create the recipes ONLY for the sigils that were only available as random drop, then it's to reduce the RNG, and thus the prices).
    I know, maybe it's still early to celebrate, but I WANT TO BELIEVE!

    Yes, we know - bellow is the official announcements (the part with the crafting)

    "Many recipes now use the new rune and sigil salvage materials rather than their previous basic crafting materials. We’re also adding several recipes for runes that could previously only be obtained by salvaging them from gear. Numerous recipes will be available from crafting trainers, but you can discover others as rare drops or rewards throughout Tyria."

    And the same method we used until now will be no more available. When you salvage the item containing the Sigil, the Sigil will be salvaged too. So, no more Sigills from weapons containing it. Unless, you use an extractor from Gem Store.

    AAA - you are right, a method still remains unchanged - to raise an alt to lvl 62 and to select the Nullification as reward. 25 times.

  • Glider.5792Glider.5792 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Glider.5792 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Well they are also new pvp armor coming out on November 13th, which also have glowy pieces and a combat activated effect as well. I might be skipping the Requiem Armor entirely, we will see.

    Thats from monthly tournaments AFAIK. Sooooo, best of luck to you!

    It’s a reward from AT as well as being purchased.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9uqelx/arenanet_seems_to_have_accidentally_leaked_the/

    Oh, didnt know Ben repplied to that post. Well, thats lovely.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeFWMeskOJhk8N-SvOFCJXA
    Fractal speed kills, raids, Black Lion Chest Openings, random.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Glider.5792 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Glider.5792 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Well they are also new pvp armor coming out on November 13th, which also have glowy pieces and a combat activated effect as well. I might be skipping the Requiem Armor entirely, we will see.

    Thats from monthly tournaments AFAIK. Sooooo, best of luck to you!

    It’s a reward from AT as well as being purchased.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9uqelx/arenanet_seems_to_have_accidentally_leaked_the/

    Oh, didnt know Ben repplied to that post. Well, thats lovely.

    And apparently there is a combat effect, which gets me all giddy.

  • Urud.4925Urud.4925 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2018

    Alright, thanks @Cristalyan.5728 . Too much euphoria that I didn't read carefully the news. Now I understand your point. Let's see. Crossed fingers.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    I’m watching the sigil price drop as we speak.

    It might.. we haven't seen what the recipe will require yet...…

    Not it might ... it already has. Though I'm sure people complaining it was too high are still looking at the price (current 5G) and thinking "Nope, not yet". Can't wait to see their face when the sigil recipe and its ingredients are released ...

    From the blog post it seems those will all be ingredients you will be able to reliably farm yourself/salvage from other sigils. That's all that matters.

    it's just going to be the same complaints about robber barons buying up all the sigils/runes they could and now everything is too expensive .... but don't forget, they aren't complaining about the costs.

    I wasn't. I could definitely affort it without a problem (and have spent much bigger amounts of gold on visuals before). I never considered that an issue.

    But you can believe anything you want.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Dedicant.6820Dedicant.6820 Member ✭✭✭

    This is such a satisfying resolution. So glad that anet finally listened and improved upon not only this situation but runes and sigils as a whole. Just goes to show that people blindly defending every aspect of the game and rallying against valid critique were wasting their time. Improvements can always be made. I can't wait to be able to craft this for myself reliably as well as the other sigils and runes that were previously rng loot based. Thanks anet!

  • FrizzFreston.5290FrizzFreston.5290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    I’m watching the sigil price drop as we speak.

    It might.. we haven't seen what the recipe will require yet...…

    Not it might ... it already has. Though I'm sure people complaining it was too high are still looking at the price (current 5G) and thinking "Nope, not yet". Can't wait to see their face when the sigil recipe and its ingredients are released ... it's just going to be the same complaints about robber barons buying up all the sigils/runes they could and now everything is too expensive .... but don't forget, they aren't complaining about the costs.

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    Glad to see ANET gave in to reason.

    Anet didn't give into reason ... they said they were working on this new system for a long time now; it's just a coincidence that the release of the new system is happening so soon after people decided this very standard implementation of content was egregious to them. The best part is that they STILL released Requiem armor with this sigil as a mat ... yes, apparently they did so in mistake some people claim.

    It's probably not much different and mostly psychological, but if the game sets the bar people are more willing to accept it than when a "player influenced" market does.

    So I think you're not going to see that much complaints about this sigil in particular.

  • @Obtena.7952 said:

    It's still intended to be implemented the way it is ... AFAIK, they aren't removing the current approaches to get the sigil. I wouldn't get too excited yet people; I remember when precursor crafting was introduced and people complained it cost MORE to craft than it did to just buy off the TP ... and that was never changed (and I think it's STILL the case) ... But you're all going to tell me this isn't about cost again right? I will remember that.

    This time I agree - it seems the implementation of the Sigil was indented. I still don't know if they calculated the consequences. BUT, from the move with the salvageable rune/sigils, I think we can see now the purpose of the last changes. Let's see:

    1. When you salvage an item you cannot get the sigil/rune anymore. You get a guaranteed material and a chance for another material - both needed to craft a rune/sigil.
    2. You also need a recipe to be able to craft a sigil / rune. This recipe may be (for some rune/sigils) a rare drop from Tyria.
    3. The price of the Upgrade Extractor dropped on the TP to 1/3 (that means you can have 3 at the price of one before). That means an extractor costs now around 24 gold - at the current conversion ratio gold to gems.

    So, if you capture an item containing a rune (or sigil) you want - let's say the weapon named Arc, having the Sigil of Nullification, if you salvage it you salvage the Sigil also. You can have some materials back and you can use them to craft .... the Sigil of Nullification :# . This is somehow non logical - to destroy an item you have only to be able to craft it again? With the condition to have the recipe, of course. And this recipe may be a rare drop :# .

    So, in my opinion this is the point where the change in the price of the upgrade extractor makes sense: If you want the sigil (or the rune) you must use an extractor. But to do this, the sigil/rune should be more expensive than the extractor. So, taking the actual cost in gold for an extractor I think that the material cost to craft a sigil/rune will be around 25 gold. If you want to sell it you should put the TP taxes - so the price will be around 29 gold. If you want a little profit the price may be 30 gold.

    In my opinion someone from the market team learned the lesson from the previous failure of the Upgrade extractor and asked a coordinated effort to make it sellable. And this is the reason of the sigil/rune being salvageable. Because without this reason on 13.Nov we should be still able to receive sigils from salvaging and to decide if we want to salvage them also or not (in order to keep a desired sigil / rune). But no, after 13 Nov we will NOT have the freedom to decide if we want to keep a rune from salvage. Because the rune will be salvaged. Unless we use the solution of buying an extractor =)

    This move is not for an healthy ingame economy - ANet will replace the gossamer/orichalcum etc used now in some recipes with the new materials. But the gossamer/orichalcum are already underused materials with a very low value. The value for these materials will become even lower. Not the ingame economy is the target for this but the sales on Gem Store.
    What will happen with the ppl having a lot of BL salvage kits? The only reason to acquire a BLSK was to obtain the rune/sigill. Now this kit behaves as all the other kits - destroying the rune.

    The positive thing in this is that we will have on TP only "good" runes/sigils (the meta ones) - around 5-10 % from all the runes.

    Requests for ANet:

    • Please add to the storage the room required for the new materials obtained from salvage.
  • Haleydawn.3764Haleydawn.3764 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Waiting for the people that don’t craft, and never will, come and complain in 3,2,1...

    Better get a wriggle on.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:
    What will happen with the ppl having a lot of BL salvage kits? The only reason to acquire a BLSK was to obtain the rune/sigill. Now this kit behaves as all the other kits - destroying the rune.

    BL kits are maintaining their current functionality, according to the release . . .

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dedicant.6820 said:
    This is such a satisfying resolution. So glad that anet finally listened and improved upon not only this situation but runes and sigils as a whole. Just goes to show that people blindly defending every aspect of the game and rallying against valid critique were wasting their time. Improvements can always be made. I can't wait to be able to craft this for myself reliably as well as the other sigils and runes that were previously rng loot based. Thanks anet!

    To be fair they just might not consider the critique valid. People might defend features because they like them or consider the alternative worse.

  • @Gop.8713 said:

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:
    What will happen with the ppl having a lot of BL salvage kits? The only reason to acquire a BLSK was to obtain the rune/sigill. Now this kit behaves as all the other kits - destroying the rune.

    BL kits are maintaining their current functionality, according to the release . . .

    Well, taking into account the fact that by using a salvage kit with a less than 100% chance to recover upgrade materials you will have less than 100% chance to salvage the sigil (with other words, if by using a standard kit you recover 3 sigils from 10 salvaged weapons, then from 13 Nov on you will receive the materials from 3 salvaged sigils), I understand that by using a BLSK you are guaranteed to receive some crafting materials for sigils/runes from every item you salvage. Not the sigil/rune itself.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:
    What will happen with the ppl having a lot of BL salvage kits? The only reason to acquire a BLSK was to obtain the rune/sigill. Now this kit behaves as all the other kits - destroying the rune.

    BL kits are maintaining their current functionality, according to the release . . .

    Well, taking into account the fact that by using a salvage kit with a less than 100% chance to recover upgrade materials you will have less than 100% chance to salvage the sigil (with other words, if by using a standard kit you recover 3 sigils from 10 salvaged weapons, then from 13 Nov on you will receive the materials from 3 salvaged sigils), I understand that by using a BLSK you are guaranteed to receive some crafting materials for sigils/runes from every item you salvage. Not the sigil/rune itself.

    Black Lion Salvage Kits will retain their current functionality with a 100% chance to extract upgrades from salvaging gear.

    That's quoted directly from the release. If you're reading that as saying the bl kit will now have a 100% chance to salvage upgrades rather than extract them, you're reading it differently than I am . . .

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Dedicant.6820 said:
    This is such a satisfying resolution. So glad that anet finally listened and improved upon not only this situation but runes and sigils as a whole. Just goes to show that people blindly defending every aspect of the game and rallying against valid critique were wasting their time. Improvements can always be made. I can't wait to be able to craft this for myself reliably as well as the other sigils and runes that were previously rng loot based. Thanks anet!

    To be fair they just might not consider the critique valid. People might defend features because they like them or consider the alternative worse.

    I really very seriously doubt the rune/sigil revamp was a reaction to the issues created by including the sigil of nullification in the collection anyway. For one thing the new system seems extensive enough that they've probably been working on it since before the collection was introduced. Also, the new system seems designed to solve a lot of broader, long-standing problems rather than just this one isolated issue . . .

    If the two are related at all I'd say what's more likely is that the rune/sigil revamp was perhaps initially slated to be released closer to the release of the new ep but got pushed back. Or it could just be a happy coincidence that an unanticipated problem found its solution in an already planned update :)

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Dedicant.6820 said:
    This is such a satisfying resolution. So glad that anet finally listened and improved upon not only this situation but runes and sigils as a whole. Just goes to show that people blindly defending every aspect of the game and rallying against valid critique were wasting their time. Improvements can always be made. I can't wait to be able to craft this for myself reliably as well as the other sigils and runes that were previously rng loot based. Thanks anet!

    To be fair they just might not consider the critique valid. People might defend features because they like them or consider the alternative worse.

    I really very seriously doubt the rune/sigil revamp was a reaction to the issues created by including the sigil of nullification in the collection anyway. For one thing the new system seems extensive enough that they've probably been working on it since before the collection was introduced. Also, the new system seems designed to solve a lot of broader, long-standing problems rather than just this one isolated issue . . .

    If the two are related at all I'd say what's more likely is that the rune/sigil revamp was perhaps initially slated to be released closer to the release of the new ep but got pushed back. Or it could just be a happy coincidence that an unanticipated problem found its solution in an already planned update :)

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Dedicant.6820 said:
    This is such a satisfying resolution. So glad that anet finally listened and improved upon not only this situation but runes and sigils as a whole. Just goes to show that people blindly defending every aspect of the game and rallying against valid critique were wasting their time. Improvements can always be made. I can't wait to be able to craft this for myself reliably as well as the other sigils and runes that were previously rng loot based. Thanks anet!

    To be fair they just might not consider the critique valid. People might defend features because they like them or consider the alternative worse.

    I really very seriously doubt the rune/sigil revamp was a reaction to the issues created by including the sigil of nullification in the collection anyway. For one thing the new system seems extensive enough that they've probably been working on it since before the collection was introduced. Also, the new system seems designed to solve a lot of broader, long-standing problems rather than just this one isolated issue . . .

    If the two are related at all I'd say what's more likely is that the rune/sigil revamp was perhaps initially slated to be released closer to the release of the new ep but got pushed back. Or it could just be a happy coincidence that an unanticipated problem found its solution in an already planned update :)

    I couldn't agree more, i was mostly responding to the person because the fact that they changed it doesn't suddenly make everyone who disagreed that it was a problem wrong. His post suggested that the defenders where doing it "blindly" while their points where mostly valid also.
    I really loath the point he made because its a little two faced. "Because they changed it it was obviously a bad system, so everyone who defended the previous system that A-net implemented has to be blind." seems a little ridiculous to me

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Dedicant.6820 said:
    This is such a satisfying resolution. So glad that anet finally listened and improved upon not only this situation but runes and sigils as a whole. Just goes to show that people blindly defending every aspect of the game and rallying against valid critique were wasting their time. Improvements can always be made. I can't wait to be able to craft this for myself reliably as well as the other sigils and runes that were previously rng loot based. Thanks anet!

    To be fair they just might not consider the critique valid. People might defend features because they like them or consider the alternative worse.

    I really very seriously doubt the rune/sigil revamp was a reaction to the issues created by including the sigil of nullification in the collection anyway. For one thing the new system seems extensive enough that they've probably been working on it since before the collection was introduced. Also, the new system seems designed to solve a lot of broader, long-standing problems rather than just this one isolated issue . . .

    If the two are related at all I'd say what's more likely is that the rune/sigil revamp was perhaps initially slated to be released closer to the release of the new ep but got pushed back. Or it could just be a happy coincidence that an unanticipated problem found its solution in an already planned update :)

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Dedicant.6820 said:
    This is such a satisfying resolution. So glad that anet finally listened and improved upon not only this situation but runes and sigils as a whole. Just goes to show that people blindly defending every aspect of the game and rallying against valid critique were wasting their time. Improvements can always be made. I can't wait to be able to craft this for myself reliably as well as the other sigils and runes that were previously rng loot based. Thanks anet!

    To be fair they just might not consider the critique valid. People might defend features because they like them or consider the alternative worse.

    I really very seriously doubt the rune/sigil revamp was a reaction to the issues created by including the sigil of nullification in the collection anyway. For one thing the new system seems extensive enough that they've probably been working on it since before the collection was introduced. Also, the new system seems designed to solve a lot of broader, long-standing problems rather than just this one isolated issue . . .

    If the two are related at all I'd say what's more likely is that the rune/sigil revamp was perhaps initially slated to be released closer to the release of the new ep but got pushed back. Or it could just be a happy coincidence that an unanticipated problem found its solution in an already planned update :)

    I couldn't agree more, i was mostly responding to the person because the fact that they changed it doesn't suddenly make everyone who disagreed that it was a problem wrong. His post suggested that the defenders where doing it "blindly" while their points where mostly valid also.
    I really loath the point he made because its a little two faced. "Because they changed it it was obviously a bad system, so everyone who defended the previous system that A-net implemented has to be blind." seems a little ridiculous to me

    Meh, planned or coincidental, if it fixes the problem I'm happy either way :)

    Who was or wasn't right about a problem that's no longer a problem doesn't seem very impt to me . . .

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Dedicant.6820 said:
    This is such a satisfying resolution. So glad that anet finally listened and improved upon not only this situation but runes and sigils as a whole. Just goes to show that people blindly defending every aspect of the game and rallying against valid critique were wasting their time. Improvements can always be made. I can't wait to be able to craft this for myself reliably as well as the other sigils and runes that were previously rng loot based. Thanks anet!

    To be fair they just might not consider the critique valid. People might defend features because they like them or consider the alternative worse.

    I really very seriously doubt the rune/sigil revamp was a reaction to the issues created by including the sigil of nullification in the collection anyway. For one thing the new system seems extensive enough that they've probably been working on it since before the collection was introduced. Also, the new system seems designed to solve a lot of broader, long-standing problems rather than just this one isolated issue . . .

    If the two are related at all I'd say what's more likely is that the rune/sigil revamp was perhaps initially slated to be released closer to the release of the new ep but got pushed back. Or it could just be a happy coincidence that an unanticipated problem found its solution in an already planned update :)

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Dedicant.6820 said:
    This is such a satisfying resolution. So glad that anet finally listened and improved upon not only this situation but runes and sigils as a whole. Just goes to show that people blindly defending every aspect of the game and rallying against valid critique were wasting their time. Improvements can always be made. I can't wait to be able to craft this for myself reliably as well as the other sigils and runes that were previously rng loot based. Thanks anet!

    To be fair they just might not consider the critique valid. People might defend features because they like them or consider the alternative worse.

    I really very seriously doubt the rune/sigil revamp was a reaction to the issues created by including the sigil of nullification in the collection anyway. For one thing the new system seems extensive enough that they've probably been working on it since before the collection was introduced. Also, the new system seems designed to solve a lot of broader, long-standing problems rather than just this one isolated issue . . .

    If the two are related at all I'd say what's more likely is that the rune/sigil revamp was perhaps initially slated to be released closer to the release of the new ep but got pushed back. Or it could just be a happy coincidence that an unanticipated problem found its solution in an already planned update :)

    I couldn't agree more, i was mostly responding to the person because the fact that they changed it doesn't suddenly make everyone who disagreed that it was a problem wrong. His post suggested that the defenders where doing it "blindly" while their points where mostly valid also.
    I really loath the point he made because its a little two faced. "Because they changed it it was obviously a bad system, so everyone who defended the previous system that A-net implemented has to be blind." seems a little ridiculous to me

    It also serves as a good explanation as to why no short term fix was implemented since a big revamp was on the horizon. Which again could then be misconstrued as complainers unfairly judging or criticizing Arenanet when there was a very justifiable reason to not intervene in the market.

    I have to agree though that neither argument would be well founded (or true) and in no way be productive.

    Overall a total Sigil and Rune revamp was necessary, so it is a win for everyone that they finally came around to doing it. The question remaining is how well it will affect the game long term, and to that, time will tell.

  • Lambent.6375Lambent.6375 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2018

    @Dedicant.6820 said:
    This is such a satisfying resolution.So glad that anet finally listened and improved upon not only this situation but runes and sigils as a whole. Just goes to show that people blindly defending every aspect of the game and rallying against valid critique were wasting their time. Improvements can always be made. I can't wait to be able to craft this for myself reliably as well as the other sigils and runes that were previously rng loot based. Thanks anet!

    They probably had this planned out long before the release of requiem armor. (the sigil and rune revamp, not this situation)

    Unless the addition of new crafting recipes for sigils was a last minute add on.

    @FOX.3582 said:
    A freaking chair. Woah. I personally can't wait to buy a gem store CHAIR, so all my characters can SIT around in Tyria while other players see me, SITTING there, looking like a [email protected] ...

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lambent.6375 said:

    @Dedicant.6820 said:
    This is such a satisfying resolution.So glad that anet finally listened and improved upon not only this situation but runes and sigils as a whole. Just goes to show that people blindly defending every aspect of the game and rallying against valid critique were wasting their time. Improvements can always be made. I can't wait to be able to craft this for myself reliably as well as the other sigils and runes that were previously rng loot based. Thanks anet!

    They probably had this planned out long before the release of requiem armor. (the sigil and rune revamp, not this situation)

    Unless the addition of new crafting recipes for sigils was a last minute add on.

    No way for anyone to tell, but I am still of a mind this is a knee jerk reaction.. the info surrounding all of this is sketchy at best instead of some clear precise detail. Is the recipe going to be a super rare drop, will the focus now shift to the price of an extractor... it's all still clouded in vagueness and uncertainty imo.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭

    I will take the change as evidence the studio loves where it lives and how it lives. Discovering this love will cause some Tyrians pain and consternation, that may we may all use as a descriptor of bravery.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along to quantum cuddle clocks

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2018

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Lambent.6375 said:

    @Dedicant.6820 said:
    This is such a satisfying resolution.So glad that anet finally listened and improved upon not only this situation but runes and sigils as a whole. Just goes to show that people blindly defending every aspect of the game and rallying against valid critique were wasting their time. Improvements can always be made. I can't wait to be able to craft this for myself reliably as well as the other sigils and runes that were previously rng loot based. Thanks anet!

    They probably had this planned out long before the release of requiem armor. (the sigil and rune revamp, not this situation)

    Unless the addition of new crafting recipes for sigils was a last minute add on.

    No way for anyone to tell, but I am still of a mind this is a knee jerk reaction.. the info surrounding all of this is sketchy at best instead of some clear precise detail. Is the recipe going to be a super rare drop, will the focus now shift to the price of an extractor... it's all still clouded in vagueness and uncertainty imo.

    Six Seven weeks isn’t a long time. And based on how long it takes for them to develop other things, I doubt they started working on this after the last episode released.

    We’ve been working on this project for a long time, and we are looking forward to sharing it with you.

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Lambent.6375 said:

    @Dedicant.6820 said:
    This is such a satisfying resolution.So glad that anet finally listened and improved upon not only this situation but runes and sigils as a whole. Just goes to show that people blindly defending every aspect of the game and rallying against valid critique were wasting their time. Improvements can always be made. I can't wait to be able to craft this for myself reliably as well as the other sigils and runes that were previously rng loot based. Thanks anet!

    They probably had this planned out long before the release of requiem armor. (the sigil and rune revamp, not this situation)

    Unless the addition of new crafting recipes for sigils was a last minute add on.

    No way for anyone to tell, but I am still of a mind this is a knee jerk reaction.. the info surrounding all of this is sketchy at best instead of some clear precise detail. Is the recipe going to be a super rare drop, will the focus now shift to the price of an extractor... it's all still clouded in vagueness and uncertainty imo.

    Six Seven weeks isn’t a long time. And based on how long it takes for them to develop other things, I doubt they started working on this after the last episode released.

    We’ve been working on this project for a long time, and we are looking forward to sharing it with you.

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/

    Whilst I agree with you to a point, we still have no idea what effect the outcry surrounding this recent content had on the detail within this latest project offering, and likely never will. The project may well of been focused around other aspects of the economy but the furore caused by the sigil based on unreliable demand, whether that be from a price or time perspective may of had an effect on this revamp.
    Question is why release content, which would be so obviously out of sync with current supply, or against a new proposed salvage ideology.. as I said its full of vagueness imo. The only conclusion I can pull from this from a conspiracy point of view is that it pull towards gem sales at both ends.. first to buy to convert in order to obtain price hiked supply, now to buy gems and buy extractors and/or a potentially rare recipe (if its not bound of course.. again no details on this surprise surprise)

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's true we don't have all the details of exactly how everything is going to work, but consider that anet had zero response to this issue for weeks then as soon as the sigil/rune rework is announced they were here to point out the sigil of nullification will become craftable on Tuesday. I think it's safe to say that the reason they didn't comment earlier is they were barred from doing so until the revamp announcement, and that they anticipate the revamp -- however it specifically works -- will address the issues created with this collection. Otherwise, why comment at all . . ?

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:
    It's true we don't have all the details of exactly how everything is going to work, but consider that anet had zero response to this issue for weeks then as soon as the sigil/rune rework is announced they were here to point out the sigil of nullification will become craftable on Tuesday. I think it's safe to say that the reason they didn't comment earlier is they were barred from doing so until the revamp announcement, and that they anticipate the revamp -- however it specifically works -- will address the issues created with this collection. Otherwise, why comment at all . . ?

    Yes it will likely push some supply and the sigil price will potentially fall.. my point is are they just shifting the focus onto another item or items that will be required, in this case the extractors maybe and possibly the BL salvage kits if they are still going to offer the same percentages.
    Either way I agree the sigil may have had its day in the market, what actually happens next only time is going to tell.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Perhaps, this is what the Systems Team was so excited about (but couldn't announce) when they were recently on Guild Chat.
    Who knows?

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2018

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Lambent.6375 said:

    @Dedicant.6820 said:
    This is such a satisfying resolution.So glad that anet finally listened and improved upon not only this situation but runes and sigils as a whole. Just goes to show that people blindly defending every aspect of the game and rallying against valid critique were wasting their time. Improvements can always be made. I can't wait to be able to craft this for myself reliably as well as the other sigils and runes that were previously rng loot based. Thanks anet!

    They probably had this planned out long before the release of requiem armor. (the sigil and rune revamp, not this situation)

    Unless the addition of new crafting recipes for sigils was a last minute add on.

    No way for anyone to tell, but I am still of a mind this is a knee jerk reaction.. the info surrounding all of this is sketchy at best instead of some clear precise detail. Is the recipe going to be a super rare drop, will the focus now shift to the price of an extractor... it's all still clouded in vagueness and uncertainty imo.

    Six Seven weeks isn’t a long time. And based on how long it takes for them to develop other things, I doubt they started working on this after the last episode released.

    We’ve been working on this project for a long time, and we are looking forward to sharing it with you.

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/

    Whilst I agree with you to a point, we still have no idea what effect the outcry surrounding this recent content had on the detail within this latest project offering, and likely never will. The project may well of been focused around other aspects of the economy but the furore caused by the sigil based on unreliable demand, whether that be from a price or time perspective may of had an effect on this revamp.
    Question is why release content, which would be so obviously out of sync with current supply, or against a new proposed salvage ideology.. as I said its full of vagueness imo. The only conclusion I can pull from this from a conspiracy point of view is that it pull towards gem sales at both ends.. first to buy to convert in order to obtain price hiked supply, now to buy gems and buy extractors and/or a potentially rare recipe (if its not bound of course.. again no details on this surprise surprise)

    The studio is likely comprised of enough awkward people with all the types trying to deliver something that is indelible. A gem 'em up coming and going conspiracy is possible and I would use proof of it. Consider instead what it would feel like to figure something out and not be sure when to deliver it because it is indelible.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along to quantum cuddle clocks

  • @Gop.8713 said:
    I really very seriously doubt the rune/sigil revamp was a reaction to the issues created by including the sigil of nullification in the collection anyway.

    There's not a chance it was. It includes several new mechanics, new item types, new recipes, and changed functionality. There's absolutely no way they could have pulled this off in less than three months, and LS4.4 launched only two months ago.

    This is a comprehensive type of overhaul, the likes of which have been requested by many people. It addresses many of the concerns that Requiem armor brought to light, about the amount of vendor-trash from standard loot, about upgrades generally, about the costs & supply & demand, about recipes, about ... many other things besides. It might also end up being used as opportunity to create demand for previously low-demand mats. (Or not.)

    or in other words: I'm as sure as possible that @Gop.8713 is correct about this, without an actual quote from ANet (which I doubt we'll get).

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    It's true we don't have all the details of exactly how everything is going to work, but consider that anet had zero response to this issue for weeks then as soon as the sigil/rune rework is announced they were here to point out the sigil of nullification will become craftable on Tuesday. I think it's safe to say that the reason they didn't comment earlier is they were barred from doing so until the revamp announcement, and that they anticipate the revamp -- however it specifically works -- will address the issues created with this collection. Otherwise, why comment at all . . ?

    Yes it will likely push some supply and the sigil price will potentially fall.. my point is are they just shifting the focus onto another item or items that will be required, in this case the extractors maybe and possibly the BL salvage kits if they are still going to offer the same percentages.
    Either way I agree the sigil may have had its day in the market, what actually happens next only time is going to tell.

    This is such a specific problem though, either changing the method of acquisition or increasing the supply would bring a resolution and the revamp will likely do both. The extractors and bl kits aren't relevant bc they only apply to an already existing method of acquisition which is random drops . . .

    While yes they could still screw this up it is a positive development which will almost certainly address the issue with this collection in at least one and perhaps multiple ways. I think it's fair to expect success rather than failure :)

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    It's true we don't have all the details of exactly how everything is going to work, but consider that anet had zero response to this issue for weeks then as soon as the sigil/rune rework is announced they were here to point out the sigil of nullification will become craftable on Tuesday. I think it's safe to say that the reason they didn't comment earlier is they were barred from doing so until the revamp announcement, and that they anticipate the revamp -- however it specifically works -- will address the issues created with this collection. Otherwise, why comment at all . . ?

    Yes it will likely push some supply and the sigil price will potentially fall.. my point is are they just shifting the focus onto another item or items that will be required, in this case the extractors maybe and possibly the BL salvage kits if they are still going to offer the same percentages.
    Either way I agree the sigil may have had its day in the market, what actually happens next only time is going to tell.

    This is such a specific problem though, either changing the method of acquisition or increasing the supply would bring a resolution and the revamp will likely do both. The extractors and bl kits aren't relevant bc they only apply to an already existing method of acquisition which is random drops . . .

    While yes they could still screw this up it is a positive development which will almost certainly address the issue with this collection in at least one and perhaps multiple ways. I think it's fair to expect success rather than failure :)

    As I said.. time will tell. Until next week I think I will sit on the fence and expect the worse so as to be pleasantly surprised... heck I think many players could do with some of that feel good feeling after the past 3-6 months of issues surrounding the game.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:
    Whilst I agree with you to a point, we still have no idea what effect the outcry surrounding this recent content had on the detail within this latest project offering, and likely never will. The project may well of been focused around other aspects of the economy but the furore caused by the sigil based on unreliable demand, whether that be from a price or time perspective may of had an effect on this revamp.

    It's also possible that the content team was planning on the sigil revamp to be done before (or simultaneous with) releasing LS4:4, such that the armor collection would give people an excuse to dig into the new crafting system, and then the revamp got pushed back but they decided not to delay the episode. Explaining the reason for the sigil problems/decision would necessarily let the cat out of the bag on the revamp before it was time, so they just said nothing.

    Hypothetically.

  • Syrus.2174Syrus.2174 Member ✭✭✭

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Virtually all runes and sigils that were previously available from ONLY salvaging are receiving a recipe.

    That does include Sigil of Nullification.

    It is good to finally have an answer from the official side.
    Would have been great to get it earlier, or to get a word about whether this was intended or not, but in the end, at least now we know something is being done that might fix the problem. Better a late reply, than no reply at all.

    The fear of such a badly implemented achievement making rushing the content worth so much next time as well still hangs in the air, but at least there's hope that if such ever happens again, there is a good chance to get a kind of fix for it.

    Now to wait and see how or whether the recipes will improve the situation.
    I do hope though, that they will make this achievement more achievable.

  • Blanche Neige.7241Blanche Neige.7241 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2018

    So, tomorrow is the big day.

    There are still a lot of sigils selling for over 10 golds, and many above 14 golds. Hopeful sellers I guess.

    It will be interesting to see if the market will rise or crash. It would be wise to cancel your buy orders if you have some.

    If the price rise, they will not be filled anyway. If the price crash, you will end up paying way too much for them. If the price don't move, you can always put another buy order on.

  • Tyger.1637Tyger.1637 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blanche Neige.7241 said:
    So, tomorrow is the big day.

    There are still a lot of sigils selling for over 10 golds, and many above 14 golds. Hopeful sellers I guess.

    It will be interesting to see if the market will rise or crash. It would be wise to cancel your buy orders if you have some.

    If the price rise, they will not be filled anyway. If the price crash, you will end up paying way too much for them. If the price don't move, you can always put another buy order on.

    It'll probably be like a washing machine on a full spin cycle as there's a mad rush to hoard the new materials and master crafters make the richest sigils and runes they can to try and gouge the market before it adjusts.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What will happen to the sanity all those sigil and rune buyers if we find out you don't get the new material from salvaging runes and sigils but from gear only?

  • Tyger.1637Tyger.1637 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    What will happen to the sanity all those sigil and rune buyers if we find out you don't get the new material from salvaging runes and sigils but from gear only?

    It's literally the first thing on the news item:

    Runes and sigils are becoming salvageable. That’s right, no more minor runes and sigils clogging up your bag space!
    When runes and sigils are salvaged, they’ll yield a new material called a lucent mote. You’ll also have a chance to salvage rarer materials: symbols from sigils, and charms from runes. Lucent motes can be refined by all crafting disciplines and—along with symbols and charms—used in recipes to create sigils and runes.

    So expect another 44 pages of rage if they go back on this :p

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