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Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged]

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  • At the time of me writing this, the price of nullification sigils is still sitting at about 8 gold. Has anet given a public statement about this yet? This is ridiculous...

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why would they need to? You can craft them now, or get one through leveling up.

  • @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Premium skins have premium costs. Although if you wait, eventually the prices on symbols & charms will start to drop, so I expect the costs to go down.

    Assuming it's not a conspiracy by anet, this "premium" armor was supposed to cost, what, 4 gold before people realized they can hold it hostage under what used to be as high as a 300 gold price tag?
    The sigil used to be merchant fodder and sold for no more than 10 silver and the price jumped only because people saw an opportunity to rip people off, so saying this "premium" armor being expensive is planned (beyond anets hypothetical test) is ridiculous, there were 15k nullification sigil purchases the day before the patch for christs sake...

  • Airdive.2613Airdive.2613 Member ✭✭✭✭

    On the flip side, I definitely like the additional 8 gold for levelling a character.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2019

    @The Witch Doctor.2301 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Premium skins have premium costs. Although if you wait, eventually the prices on symbols & charms will start to drop, so I expect the costs to go down.

    Assuming it's not a conspiracy by anet, this "premium" armor was supposed to cost, what, 4 gold before people realized they can hold it hostage under what used to be as high as a 300 gold price tag?
    The sigil used to be merchant fodder and sold for no more than 10 silver and the price jumped only because people saw an opportunity to rip people off, so saying this "premium" armor being expensive is planned (beyond anets hypothetical test) is ridiculous, there were 15k nullification sigil purchases the day before the patch for christs sake...

    @The Witch Doctor.2301 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Premium skins have premium costs. Although if you wait, eventually the prices on symbols & charms will start to drop, so I expect the costs to go down.

    Assuming it's not a conspiracy by anet, this "premium" armor was supposed to cost, what, 4 gold before people realized they can hold it hostage under what used to be as high as a 300 gold price tag?
    The sigil used to be merchant fodder and sold for no more than 10 silver and the price jumped only because people saw an opportunity to rip people off, so saying this "premium" armor being expensive is planned (beyond anets hypothetical test) is ridiculous, there were 15k nullification sigil purchases the day before the patch for christs sake...

    Assuming Arenanet employees understand very basic supply and demand and their relationship to price and the fact that after months and a rune and sigil change, the sigil retains a specific value above vendor AND the collection not getting changed, we can assume that the 4 gold cost was never intended.

    As such we are left with 1 assumption:
    Premium armor is expensive and working as intended.

    You not liking this fact (and/or not understanding supply and demand) does not change this.

    If you hope to get this collection done for no gold, you will remain disappointed for a long time.

  • @The Witch Doctor.2301 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Premium skins have premium costs. Although if you wait, eventually the prices on symbols & charms will start to drop, so I expect the costs to go down.

    Assuming it's not a conspiracy by anet, this "premium" armor was supposed to cost, what, 4 gold before people realized they can hold it hostage under what used to be as high as a 300 gold price tag?

    Why was it supposed to cost 4g?
    I think you mean that the market value of the materials was 4g, before the demand for the sigil was spiked by the new item.

    The sigil used to be merchant fodder and sold for no more than 10 silver and the price jumped only because people saw an opportunity to rip people off,

    No, it didn't spike because people saw an opportunity to rip people off. People were willing (and are willing) to pay extra. If no one thought the armor was worth 300g, the price would not have increased so easily.

    so saying this "premium" armor being expensive is planned (beyond anets hypothetical test) is ridiculous,

    It's a viable theory and you haven't given any reason why it's unlikely, let along wrong or ridiculous.

    there were 15k nullification sigil purchases the day before the patch for christs sake...

    You mean after the patch. Patch launched on the 18th, the trades took place on the 18th.
    Plus, the amount of sigils entering the market when they were vendor trash was 2-4k per month; that spiked enormously as people sold their oversupply in September, and yet prices didn't drop. That's compelling evidence that people were willing to pay extra, a lot extra, just to get the chieve/skin sooner rather than later.


    The original post asked if ANet had made a comment on this: answer is no. I think any future discussion can take place in one of the existing threads on the topic, which already supply enough facts for people to draw reasonable conclusions. And there will never be enough facts for people who have already decided the 'truth' to reconsider.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2019

    @The Witch Doctor.2301 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Premium skins have premium costs. Although if you wait, eventually the prices on symbols & charms will start to drop, so I expect the costs to go down.

    Assuming it's not a conspiracy by anet, this "premium" armor was supposed to cost, what, 4 gold before people realized they can hold it hostage under what used to be as high as a 300 gold price tag?
    The sigil used to be merchant fodder and sold for no more than 10 silver and the price jumped only because people saw an opportunity to rip people off, so saying this "premium" armor being expensive is planned (beyond anets hypothetical test) is ridiculous, there were 15k nullification sigil purchases the day before the patch for christs sake...

    If the price was EVER an issue that Anet thought would have needed to be addressed, Anet wouldn't have ever chosen a mat that one can purchase of the TP in the first place because Anet doesn't control prices on the TP. There is nothing ridiculous about Anet giving an item value as a tradeable commodity on the TP.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @The Witch Doctor.2301 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Premium skins have premium costs. Although if you wait, eventually the prices on symbols & charms will start to drop, so I expect the costs to go down.

    Assuming it's not a conspiracy by anet, this "premium" armor was supposed to cost, what, 4 gold before people realized they can hold it hostage under what used to be as high as a 300 gold price tag?
    The sigil used to be merchant fodder and sold for no more than 10 silver and the price jumped only because people saw an opportunity to rip people off, so saying this "premium" armor being expensive is planned (beyond anets hypothetical test) is ridiculous, there were 15k nullification sigil purchases the day before the patch for christs sake...

    This armor was supposed to cost w/e the market deem its worth is. They wouldnt use material and items u can trade otherwise.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2019

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    You can be certain the TP barons is twitching to rush through the next episode to find that the next hot crafting material will be for the new weapons.

    I wonder who would profit the most from a new cheap sigil/resource which spikes in value, is it players who are stripped for cash who hope to become instant rich or is it players who are already insanely loaded?

    Your statement is based on 1 simple incorrect assumption (which then cascades to multiple incorrect assumptions): greed to only be present in 1 type of player. That is simply incorrect.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Greed is greed, theres nothing incorrect about it. If something can be exploited it WILL be to milk the ones slow to catch up.

  • Crafting them is quite cheaper than buying them with gold, if you get the materials yourself over time.

    • Pile of Lucent Crystal - Salvage any upgrades until you have enough motes, then make the crystals.
    • Elaborate Totem - Do a few events in a core map that has totems as the current map bonus. Killing tribal enemies and inquest also drops lots of totems.
    • Symbol of Control - Salvage the cheapest control sigils you can get until you get these.
    • Glob of Ectoplasm - Do a few meta events that end with final bosses and salvage the rares you'll get.
  • I missed buying low and just finished crafting enough to finish. I didn't spend to much and wound up low on mistonium more than anything else. Funny though the character I was going to use the armor skin on I haven't been playing now.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Selling a luxury item to people at a price they are willing and able to pay is not, "ripping people off."

  • Etterwyn.5263Etterwyn.5263 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    You can be certain the TP barons is twitching to rush through the next episode to find that the next hot crafting material will be for the new weapons.

    Take January 8th off and beat them to it!

    WvW™ - where you find more Red Rings of Death than an Xbox repair facility.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yes it has been addressed.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It has been 'fixed' in the sense that it has been prevented from recurring. I'm not sure there's much else they can do at this point . . .

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    Greed is greed, theres nothing incorrect about it. If something can be exploited it WILL be to milk the ones slow to catch up.

    True, now show that only TP barons will be among the people profiteering.

    Notice how since you won't be able to show this, your previous statement was nothing but nonsense?

  • Hello!
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/55656/superior-sigil-of-nullification-merged/p37

    Have fun and good luck.

    Oh, and btw, never was not about the price, they said.

  • Susy.7529Susy.7529 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    No it hasn't and sadly it will never be addresed.
    On the other hand, I hope they won't make the same mistake in next week Ep 5's Upgradable Weapon Sets.

  • Actually, just like leveling a character for the Sigil, there are in-game methods of acquiring Extraction Tools or BL Salvage Kits at no real money costs.

  • Odinens.5920Odinens.5920 Member ✭✭✭

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    Actually, just like leveling a character for the Sigil, there are in-game methods of acquiring Extraction Tools or BL Salvage Kits at no real money costs.

    If you are talking about the key farm that is still a real money cost, because players like me that don't have a spare character slot to make and delete toons all the time, have to buy one, which costs gems.

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    omg as if you pve boys not the riches ones in the game ....

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    @Odinens.5920 said:
    Not sure why people keep defending this sigil/rune change when it's clearly negatively affected a whole lot of people.

    1. drops rates for motes/symbols/etc are way too low. More people agree with this than don't.

    Sure, a lot of people would also want legendäres for 1 gold, doesn't make them right or correct from am economic perspective.

    1. as such, it's still faster and easier to use the level up method to obtain ONE sigil. May as well not even have the crafting option, since it clearly hasn't changed ANYthing with regards to this collection.

    It's an OPTION, people demanded an option to the TP. The option does not mean it is free of charge.

    1. on the off chance you get a weapon drop with a null sigil in it (or any rune/sigil for that matter) guess what - if you want to keep that sigil you now have to pay real money to keep it, because the only 2 ways to get it are either an extraction tool or a BL salvage kit, both of which are only obtainable thru the gem store....that's a scam in my book.

    Sell the exotic, buy the sigil. Problem solved.

  • What I'm doing to collect enough Control Symbols is:

    (1) Buy as many stacks of superior and major sigils that are "Control" based. Cheaper options are Sigil of Battle and Sigil of Frailty, check tp. Salvage with a Mystic Salvage kit.
    (2) Crafting superior sigil of bounty (the sigil that gives +9 concentration when killing a foe) because it requires an 3 Symbols of Enhancement but salvaging the sigil gives Symbols of Control. Also requires the Draconic Mons currency. Salvage with a Mystic Salvage kit.

    Hope this helps someone, cheers.

  • Magnus Godrik.5841Magnus Godrik.5841 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This nothing compared to sigil of mischief and snowfall runes, which you need 50 of each, just for a shoulder piece. Take that.

  • Etria.3642Etria.3642 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I have to laugh at the person who said the materials for the armor would only be 4 gold. Did you LOOK at the other materials required?

    I just recently completed the collection after my buy order for the symbols of control filled at 89 silver. The collection also requires a fair amount of amalgamated gemstones and ectoplasm. This was NEVER supposed to be cheap. Fortunately for me in the time it took for the buy order I farmed everything else.

    And now I am loving the prices on ectos and rares to recoup my control investment.

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    @Odinens.5920 said:

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    Actually, just like leveling a character for the Sigil, there are in-game methods of acquiring Extraction Tools or BL Salvage Kits at no real money costs.

    If you are talking about the key farm that is still a real money cost, because players like me that don't have a spare character slot to make and delete toons all the time, have to buy one, which costs gems.

    Daily log-in, four times per 28-day cycle. :)
    I'd guess the players using leveling-up for the Sigil would require a character slot, as well.

  • Diak Atoli.2085Diak Atoli.2085 Member ✭✭✭

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    Actually, just like leveling a character for the Sigil, there are in-game methods of acquiring Extraction Tools or BL Salvage Kits at no real money costs.

    If you are talking about the key farm that is still a real money cost, because players like me that don't have a spare character slot to make and delete toons all the time, have to buy one, which costs gems.

    Daily log-in, four times per 28-day cycle. :)

    Also Daily Fractal reward chests and achievement chests have a chance to drop them.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    Actually, just like leveling a character for the Sigil, there are in-game methods of acquiring Extraction Tools or BL Salvage Kits at no real money costs.

    If you are talking about the key farm that is still a real money cost, because players like me that don't have a spare character slot to make and delete toons all the time, have to buy one, which costs gems.

    Daily log-in, four times per 28-day cycle. :)
    I'd guess the players using leveling-up for the Sigil would require a character slot, as well.

    Ive never gotten a key, or a salvage kit from the daily login. I get nothing but merchants and bankers and defending this by saying that RNG gemstore items is the way to go is laughable.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    Actually, just like leveling a character for the Sigil, there are in-game methods of acquiring Extraction Tools or BL Salvage Kits at no real money costs.

    If you are talking about the key farm that is still a real money cost, because players like me that don't have a spare character slot to make and delete toons all the time, have to buy one, which costs gems.

    Daily log-in, four times per 28-day cycle. :)
    I'd guess the players using leveling-up for the Sigil would require a character slot, as well.

    Ive never gotten a key, or a salvage kit from the daily login. I get nothing but merchants and bankers and defending this by saying that RNG gemstore items is the way to go is laughable.

    Equally laughable as people blindly hating and claiming malice where their is non. But that's trendy I guess.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Premium skins have premium costs.

    It's not a "premium skin", any more than Mark Y Golem or Wayfarer's Henge or the commander banner or any other living story collection was. All of which cost little to no gold to make.

    Those were backpieces, this is an armor set. Not only for the majority of ppl its a bigger deal but it takes way more to make them for anet. I'd say its more of a premium skin than backpieces we get every 1,2 or w/e episodes.

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    Selling a luxury item to people at a price they are willing and able to pay is not, "ripping people off."

    It wasn't sold to the public as a luxury item, it was sold as the flagship feature of the new episode. Something to be obtained by actually playing the game, not playing the TP.

    Idk, if i wanted to get it i could do fractals or play the map events the buy the runes with the gold i collected, i wouldnt play the tp, i dont enjoy that.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    This nothing compared to sigil of mischief and snowfall runes, which you need 50 of each, just for a shoulder piece. Take that.

    The items needed for winter's presence always spike during the winter period.

  • What's the issue? That it's expensive? So are many things in the game. You're not entitled to cosmetic armor skins.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    What issue?
    A full set only costs 25 sigils, just play actively for 25 days and you’re done
    Palawadanmeta nets a lot of gold daily

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    You can be certain the TP barons is twitching to rush through the next episode to find that the next hot crafting material will be for the new weapons.

    I wonder who would profit the most from a new cheap sigil/resource which spikes in value, is it players who are stripped for cash who hope to become instant rich or is it players who are already insanely loaded?

    It is always the second group. The first never has enough gold you need to frontload in it for the investment to pay handsomely. A TP baron can afford to spend 500 g in hopes of massive gain. Poor players neither have that much (because they are, you know, poor) nor do they have enough of understanding of the market to notice immediately that this is something that is going to bring profit.

    So, as always, the rich get richer, the rest end up paying for it.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    You can be certain the TP barons is twitching to rush through the next episode to find that the next hot crafting material will be for the new weapons.

    I wonder who would profit the most from a new cheap sigil/resource which spikes in value, is it players who are stripped for cash who hope to become instant rich or is it players who are already insanely loaded?

    It is always the second group. The first never has enough gold you need to frontload in it for the investment to pay handsomely. A TP baron can afford to spend 500 g in hopes of massive gain. Poor players neither have that much (because they are, you know, poor) nor do they have enough of understanding of the market to notice immediately that this is something that is going to bring profit.

    So, as always, the rich get richer, the rest end up paying for it.

    True, but I would not consider a player who can afford 500-1000 gold a TP baron. There is a ton of normal players with thousands of gold without actively manipulating or working the TP.

    I do agree though that players with less interest or understanding of how to manage their ingame wealth might be disadvantaged.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    You can be certain the TP barons is twitching to rush through the next episode to find that the next hot crafting material will be for the new weapons.

    I wonder who would profit the most from a new cheap sigil/resource which spikes in value, is it players who are stripped for cash who hope to become instant rich or is it players who are already insanely loaded?

    It is always the second group. The first never has enough gold you need to frontload in it for the investment to pay handsomely. A TP baron can afford to spend 500 g in hopes of massive gain. Poor players neither have that much (because they are, you know, poor) nor do they have enough of understanding of the market to notice immediately that this is something that is going to bring profit.

    So, as always, the rich get richer, the rest end up paying for it.

    True, but I would not consider a player who can afford 500-1000 gold a TP baron. There is a ton of normal players with thousands of gold without actively manipulating or working the TP.

    Normal players able and willing to risk that amount of money to buy off a whole TP supply of a single mat in hope of profit? Without a lot of time to decide (remember, it happened in less than an hour from patch - by that time most players, even those that started right after patch, still didn't know the recipe yet)?
    No, i don't think there's a ton of those.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    You can be certain the TP barons is twitching to rush through the next episode to find that the next hot crafting material will be for the new weapons.

    I wonder who would profit the most from a new cheap sigil/resource which spikes in value, is it players who are stripped for cash who hope to become instant rich or is it players who are already insanely loaded?

    It is always the second group. The first never has enough gold you need to frontload in it for the investment to pay handsomely. A TP baron can afford to spend 500 g in hopes of massive gain. Poor players neither have that much (because they are, you know, poor) nor do they have enough of understanding of the market to notice immediately that this is something that is going to bring profit.

    So, as always, the rich get richer, the rest end up paying for it.

    True, but I would not consider a player who can afford 500-1000 gold a TP baron. There is a ton of normal players with thousands of gold without actively manipulating or working the TP.

    Normal players able and willing to risk that amount of money to buy off a whole TP supply of a single mat in hope of profit? Without a lot of time to decide (remember, it happened in less than an hour from patch - by that time most players, even those that started right after patch, still didn't know the recipe yet)?
    No, i don't think there's a ton of those.

    Enough that is doesn't necessary have to be TP barons. Even if some players just bought 10-50 gold worth, we are talking 750 gold total at release of the patch, that is nothing.

  • Magnus Godrik.5841Magnus Godrik.5841 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    This nothing compared to sigil of mischief and snowfall runes, which you need 50 of each, just for a shoulder piece. Take that.

    The items needed for winter's presence always spike during the winter period.

    Actually they dropped in price and will go back up in a few months. And will stay that way until next wintersday when the vicious cycle starts again.

  • Odinens.5920Odinens.5920 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:
    Not sure why people keep defending this sigil/rune change when it's clearly negatively affected a whole lot of people.

    1. drops rates for motes/symbols/etc are way too low. More people agree with this than don't.

    Sure, a lot of people would also want legendäres for 1 gold, doesn't make them right or correct from am economic perspective.

    Nobody is asking for 1g legendaries or even drop rates so high that it floods the market, but you go right ahead and defend the current drop rates like it's a normal thing. Us people that actually realize it's not ok will continue to criticize

    1. as such, it's still faster and easier to use the level up method to obtain ONE sigil. May as well not even have the crafting option, since it clearly hasn't changed ANYthing with regards to this collection.

    It's an OPTION, people demanded an option to the TP. The option does not mean it is free of charge.

    You say option, that people demanded? I already said it's an OPTION that not very many people are even choosing because it's not worth it. Thus not changing or fixing anything with regard to the collection.

    1. on the off chance you get a weapon drop with a null sigil in it (or any rune/sigil for that matter) guess what - if you want to keep that sigil you now have to pay real money to keep it, because the only 2 ways to get it are either an extraction tool or a BL salvage kit, both of which are only obtainable thru the gem store....that's a scam in my book.

    Sell the exotic, buy the sigil. Problem solved.

    Tell me again what salvage tools are for? Sorry, but what they have done with regard to being able to salvage runes/sigils is a shady business practice. You can defend it if you like, but until they make salvage tools do what they used to this will STILL be a shady business practice.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    @Odinens.5920 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:
    Not sure why people keep defending this sigil/rune change when it's clearly negatively affected a whole lot of people.

    1. drops rates for motes/symbols/etc are way too low. More people agree with this than don't.

    Sure, a lot of people would also want legendäres for 1 gold, doesn't make them right or correct from am economic perspective.

    Nobody is asking for 1g legendaries or even drop rates so high that it floods the market, but you go right ahead and defend the current drop rates like it's a normal thing. Us people that actually realize it's not ok will continue to criticize

    yet here you are, criticizing value and gold cost. I was obviously exaggerating to make a point. Same how you are exaggerating about how the end will come if these changes remain (hint: it will not).

    @Odinens.5920 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:
    2. as such, it's still faster and easier to use the level up method to obtain ONE sigil. May as well not even have the crafting option, since it clearly hasn't changed ANYthing with regards to this collection.

    It's an OPTION, people demanded an option to the TP. The option does not mean it is free of charge.

    You say option, that people demanded? I already said it's an OPTION that not very many people are even choosing because it's not worth it. Thus not changing or fixing anything with regard to the collection.

    People complained about the rng nature, similar as precursor crafting. A non rng self-craft method was added. All you see is once again the cost. No one said the cost would drop. It's defined by supply and demand which meets at the TP listing price.

    @Odinens.5920 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:
    3. on the off chance you get a weapon drop with a null sigil in it (or any rune/sigil for that matter) guess what - if you want to keep that sigil you now have to pay real money to keep it, because the only 2 ways to get it are either an extraction tool or a BL salvage kit, both of which are only obtainable thru the gem store....that's a scam in my book.

    Sell the exotic, buy the sigil. Problem solved.

    Tell me again what salvage tools are for? Sorry, but what they have done with regard to being able to salvage runes/sigils is a shady business practice. You can defend it if you like, but until they make salvage tools do what they used to this will STILL be a shady business practice.

    I gave you a solution to your dilemma.

    Salvage tools do exactly what they state. You can disagree with them and how they work. Doesn't change the fact that if you get a Sigil or Rune you want in an exotic, you can sell the exotic which will be at near market value of the rune/sigil and buy the rune/sigil thus circumventing both the rng nature of the salvage tool as well as more expensive extractors.

  • Seems like to me a simple solution that may help the dilemma is to change the recipes for minor/major runes and sigils to stop requiring the symbols and charms to craft them. That way when you have an abundance of lucent motes, you can burn them off and create minor/major sigils to sell or salvage to try and get symbols and charms to create the superior versions. It would also favor new players who may want to craft or buy minor/major sigils to put on gear without having to spend an inflated price on the TP.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TokenG.7863 said:
    Seems like to me a simple solution that may help the dilemma is to change the recipes for minor/major runes and sigils to stop requiring the symbols and charms to craft them. That way when you have an abundance of lucent motes, you can burn them off and create minor/major sigils to sell or salvage to try and get symbols and charms to create the superior versions. It would also favor new players who may want to craft or buy minor/major sigils to put on gear without having to spend an inflated price on the TP.

    Well, yeah, that's one thing not many people notice - the change practically killed minor/major runes/sigils. Sure, there's still a lot of them on the market, but there won't be more. Nobody's going to use black lions on rare/green gear after all, and the cost of crafting is so high almost noone will be getting them that way as well.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Odinens.5920Odinens.5920 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:
    Not sure why people keep defending this sigil/rune change when it's clearly negatively affected a whole lot of people.

    1. drops rates for motes/symbols/etc are way too low. More people agree with this than don't.

    Sure, a lot of people would also want legendäres for 1 gold, doesn't make them right or correct from am economic perspective.

    Nobody is asking for 1g legendaries or even drop rates so high that it floods the market, but you go right ahead and defend the current drop rates like it's a normal thing. Us people that actually realize it's not ok will continue to criticize

    yet here you are, criticizing value and gold cost. I was obviously exaggerating to make a point. Same how you are exaggerating about how the end will come if these changes remain (hint: it will not).

    Please, do show me where I mentioned cost or "the end" in my statement.

    @Odinens.5920 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:
    2. as such, it's still faster and easier to use the level up method to obtain ONE sigil. May as well not even have the crafting option, since it clearly hasn't changed ANYthing with regards to this collection.

    It's an OPTION, people demanded an option to the TP. The option does not mean it is free of charge.

    You say option, that people demanded? I already said it's an OPTION that not very many people are even choosing because it's not worth it. Thus not changing or fixing anything with regard to the collection.

    People complained about the rng nature, similar as precursor crafting. A non rng self-craft method was added. All you see is once again the cost. No one said the cost would drop. It's defined by supply and demand which meets at the TP listing price.

    Again, please show me where I mentioned cost in my Statement. If you had read earlier "worth it" in this case was referring to the time it takes to craft 1 sigil as opposed to leveling up a new character and getting the sigil that way.

    @Odinens.5920 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:
    3. on the off chance you get a weapon drop with a null sigil in it (or any rune/sigil for that matter) guess what - if you want to keep that sigil you now have to pay real money to keep it, because the only 2 ways to get it are either an extraction tool or a BL salvage kit, both of which are only obtainable thru the gem store....that's a scam in my book.

    Sell the exotic, buy the sigil. Problem solved.

    Tell me again what salvage tools are for? Sorry, but what they have done with regard to being able to salvage runes/sigils is a shady business practice. You can defend it if you like, but until they make salvage tools do what they used to this will STILL be a shady business practice.

    I gave you a solution to your dilemma.

    Salvage tools do exactly what they state. You can disagree with them and how they work. Doesn't change the fact that if you get a Sigil or Rune you want in an exotic, you can sell the exotic which will be at near market value of the rune/sigil and buy the rune/sigil thus circumventing both the rng nature of the salvage tool as well as more expensive extractors.

    My previous statement still stands. It's a shady business practice. You can go ahead and keep defending it if you'd like. People wanted the ability to salvage runes/sigils, and to craft them. Nobody asked for auto-salvaging direct from gear and having NO chance whatsoever of keeping a rune or sigil if they so desired, and on top of that making the only way TO keep them is gem store items.

    shady is shady

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    @Odinens.5920 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:
    Not sure why people keep defending this sigil/rune change when it's clearly negatively affected a whole lot of people.

    1. drops rates for motes/symbols/etc are way too low. More people agree with this than don't.

    Sure, a lot of people would also want legendäres for 1 gold, doesn't make them right or correct from am economic perspective.

    Nobody is asking for 1g legendaries or even drop rates so high that it floods the market, but you go right ahead and defend the current drop rates like it's a normal thing. Us people that actually realize it's not ok will continue to criticize

    yet here you are, criticizing value and gold cost. I was obviously exaggerating to make a point. Same how you are exaggerating about how the end will come if these changes remain (hint: it will not).

    Please, do show me where I mentioned cost or "the end" in my statement.

    All you do is complain about the cost of the item. It's literally the only substance to your complaint. Everything else is remedied:

    • it's craft-able
    • it's attainable via game play
    • it can be gained without rng

    You are unhappy with the price of the rune and sigils and the underlying system which causes this. We get it. The system is fine and works as intended. Runes and Sigils are not supposed to be vendor trash. The change was made to achieve this.

    @Odinens.5920 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:
    2. as such, it's still faster and easier to use the level up method to obtain ONE sigil. May as well not even have the crafting option, since it clearly hasn't changed ANYthing with regards to this collection.

    It's an OPTION, people demanded an option to the TP. The option does not mean it is free of charge.

    You say option, that people demanded? I already said it's an OPTION that not very many people are even choosing because it's not worth it. Thus not changing or fixing anything with regard to the collection.

    People complained about the rng nature, similar as precursor crafting. A non rng self-craft method was added. All you see is once again the cost. No one said the cost would drop. It's defined by supply and demand which meets at the TP listing price.

    Again, please show me where I mentioned cost in my Statement. If you had read earlier "worth it" in this case was referring to the time it takes to craft 1 sigil as opposed to leveling up a new character and getting the sigil that way.

    Then don't, farm gold and buy it, level a character, buy the materials, play the game and gather the materials. There are multiple avenues to achieve the goal. Most of them come down to how willing someone is to spend gold.

    What you find to be of value is not the god given all encompassing truth. I seem to find value in the fact that the current system doesn't treat 95% of all runes and sigils as vendor trash.

    @Odinens.5920 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:
    3. on the off chance you get a weapon drop with a null sigil in it (or any rune/sigil for that matter) guess what - if you want to keep that sigil you now have to pay real money to keep it, because the only 2 ways to get it are either an extraction tool or a BL salvage kit, both of which are only obtainable thru the gem store....that's a scam in my book.

    Sell the exotic, buy the sigil. Problem solved.

    Tell me again what salvage tools are for? Sorry, but what they have done with regard to being able to salvage runes/sigils is a shady business practice. You can defend it if you like, but until they make salvage tools do what they used to this will STILL be a shady business practice.

    I gave you a solution to your dilemma.

    Salvage tools do exactly what they state. You can disagree with them and how they work. Doesn't change the fact that if you get a Sigil or Rune you want in an exotic, you can sell the exotic which will be at near market value of the rune/sigil and buy the rune/sigil thus circumventing both the rng nature of the salvage tool as well as more expensive extractors.

    My previous statement still stands. It's a shady business practice. You can go ahead and keep defending it if you'd like. People wanted the ability to salvage runes/sigils, and to craft them. Nobody asked for auto-salvaging direct from gear and having NO chance whatsoever of keeping a rune or sigil if they so desired, and on top of that making the only way TO keep them is gem store items.

    shady is shady

    People wanted stuff FOR FREE. It was literally the same situation as with precursor crafting. No, a revised system will hopefully NOT repeat the mistakes of the past. Arenanet wants Sigils and Runes to hold value no matter how meta they might be.

    If you want to salvage runes you have that option:

    • buy extractors from the gem store
    • use Black Lion Salvage kits
    • buy the invite extractor off the TP

    Those items were in place before the change and they remain in place after the change. There was never a realistic scenario in which these items were made obsolete. I already gave you alternative approaches as to how to circumvent the use of these items.

    What you are calling shady business practices is simply a proper implemented system which makes use of ALL items involved. You want shady business practices? Go check out some of the micro-transactions in other games which were implemented AFTER the games were released and which actually force you to spend money. Or better yet, go play a subscription based MMO, I hear they are way fairer on the monetization.

    Is the current system perfect? No. Was the previous system perfect? No. Does the current system fit better with the games monetization and itemization model? Yes. Does the new system force players to shell out tons of additional gold and gems? Not if you both manage your resources wisely and approach sigils and runes as not a disposable resource.