From the Ashes instance is unfair to some classes - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

From the Ashes instance is unfair to some classes

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  • Henri Blanche.8276Henri Blanche.8276 Member ✭✭
    edited January 4, 2019

    There needs to be a way to bypass an encounter like this. Oh sure, no rewards, no achievements, no nothing. Other than being able to move on with the story.

  • Thorgald.2485Thorgald.2485 Member ✭✭
    edited January 8, 2019

    @Henri Blanche.8276 said:
    There needs to be a way to bypass an encounter like this. Oh sure, no rewards, no achievements, no nothing. Other than being able to move on with the story.

    This, so much this! If A-net can't be bothered to construct a FAIR engagement then they should also give us the option to skip them.

    @Warscythes.9307 said:
    Some instances will always favor some classes. Unless you want everything homogenized then this will always be a thing.

    Not true, not even a little bit. ONLY true if you have too little experience designing things like this, or worse, can't be bothered..

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Whats unfair about the encounter?

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Whats unfair about the encounter?

    Read the thread for the answer.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Whats unfair about the encounter?

    Read the thread for the answer.

    I read that u can use mounts and with the endurance share mastery u can do the whole arena easily. If so do ppl not have choose not to use the mounts they have access to?

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2019

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Whats unfair about the encounter?

    Read the thread for the answer.

    I read that u can use mounts and with the endurance share mastery u can do the whole arena easily.

    If that's what you read, then i suggest you should look again. There are posts that say more clearly what mounts can (and can't) do in that instance. You must have missed those.

    Hint: it's neither whole arena, nor easily.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭

    there are many bosses that favor classes with better armor or pets, compared to thief. like that battle against caudecus in a confined small space with lots of aoe's and other attacks, as a glass cannon thief, you run out of evades quick, since it's your only defense against them, and you have no pets to keep attacking it. it was a nightmare fight as a thief. there will always be quests and zones that will favor certian classes.

  • Gehenna.3625Gehenna.3625 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Whats unfair about the encounter?

    Nothing's unfair about it. You actually have to pay attention to what you're doing a little and learn how to move across the open area. The first time I got there I died. Second time I won. Even got the timed achievement. I play a guardian in celestial gear without speed boosts. I'm sure it's easier to do it with speed boosts but it's not needed to do it. So it comes down to player skill.

    And I won't say it's completely easy, it really is a bit tricky but what people mean when they say it's unfair to the classes, is that it's too hard for them to figure out how to do. I won't judge that but it's not about the classes, it's about the players. Of course nobody likes to admit they can't manage it. So let's just say that it's too hard for some people to do and then ArenaNet can see their metrics to measure how many people actually can't handle this fight. If it's enough it'll be nerfed, if not then a small number of players will have to learn to be better. Not a judgment, just where I feel things really stand.

    "In my experience, if you can't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say. The details are everything." ~ Minister Durano

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I did it this morning, and missed the time achievement by a few seconds. Knowing now that trying to use mounts (or even the Griffon!) is a bad idea once she gets to position #2, I would certainly die less in a retry and therefore lose less time.

    I did it as a Power GS Guardian. GS 3, Aegis, and Shield 5 helped me to avoid/block many of her shots. I was pressed for time so I played this more Leeroy than I should have, but I found it to be a challenging but not impossible instance fight.

    But I also agree with many posters, on my Daredevil this fight would be cheese, even without resorting to stealth. Eat some Endurance regen food and you could probably bounce / SB 5 your way across the entire courtyard.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @coso.9173 said:
    there are many bosses that favor classes with better armor or pets, compared to thief. like that battle against caudecus in a confined small space with lots of aoe's and other attacks, as a glass cannon thief, you run out of evades quick, since it's your only defense against them, and you have no pets to keep attacking it. it was a nightmare fight as a thief.

    Just spam pistols and run around him in circles. As long as you keep moving you should be perfectly safe.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @coso.9173 said:
    there are many bosses that favor classes with better armor or pets, compared to thief. like that battle against caudecus in a confined small space with lots of aoe's and other attacks, as a glass cannon thief, you run out of evades quick, since it's your only defense against them, and you have no pets to keep attacking it. it was a nightmare fight as a thief.

    Just spam pistols and run around him in circles. As long as you keep moving you should be perfectly safe.

    it is what i did, but still you'll get an explosion to the face sometimes and thief has no defense, only evades, so once you're thrown away on the ground you'll most probably die for the damage you get before you can get up.

  • Durzlla.6295Durzlla.6295 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thiazi.1250 said:

    @Kal Spiro.9745 said:

    @Thiazi.1250 said:
    Specifically, trying to move from cover-to-cover heavily favors classes with high mobility. I played through the story on my Reaper, and it felt incredibly unfun, because I had to make do with Summon Flesh Wurm/Necrotic Transversal, and Death's Charge (which costs precious life force that I need for the fights themselves, made worse by the poison gas). Meanwhile, a Thief could just spam Infiltrator's Arrow, and Mirages have Blink, Mimic, and Jaunt.

    I understand that not much can be done to change it at this point, but please take things like this into account in designing future encounters.

    This is incorrect. I did this on my Ranger, but I didn't use speed boost, swiftness, or anything else that might help. I did this exclusively by running at normal run speed and dodging appropriately and I got the achievement for not being shot on my first try. I then crashed right at the end and had to do it a second time. This time I was more careless, attempting to do it faster and I still only got shot twice. No big deal.

    It's not incorrect though. My point isn't that it's impossible to do as a Reaper (I completed it), or even just running and dodging. My point is that some classes have tools that can make this instance much easier, while others don't.

    This isn't me whining that it's too hard. I'm trying to point out that some classes are much better equipped to do this in others, which I believe should not be the case in story content. If it was a raid, fractal, a dungeon, or even just achievements, I wouldn't care. Those are good places to let classes play to their individual strengths. This, however, is the story, which is intended for pretty much everyone to play; having some classes with a huge advantage or disadvantage is bad design, in my opinion.

    Honestly I feel like this is a good thing, we have a part in the story with a lot of movement so the mobile classes get to have their time to shine and feel good about it. Just like when other classes get to shine with AoE, or having tons of stab or near condi immunity etc.

    "But my children sing to me. Listen. They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family. As their mother, I have to grant them their wish."

  • @Henri Blanche.8276 said:
    There needs to be a way to bypass an encounter like this. Oh sure, no rewards, no achievements, no nothing. Other than being able to move on with the story.

    @Thorgald.2485 said:
    This, so much this! If A-net can't be bothered to construct a FAIR engagement then they should also give us the option to skip them.

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Whats unfair about the encounter?

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Read the thread for the answer.

    The thread offers examples of people who succeeded at the instance who don't consider themselves "good at games." In addition, anyone can use LFG to get help. Given that, how is the encounter "unfair"?

    I hope it's obvious that ANet thinks the encounter is 'fair', otherwise they wouldn't have included it in the live version of the game. So it's important to be specific about why exactly "there needs to be a way to bypass" or what exactly "an encounter like this" means.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • NaramSin.2693NaramSin.2693 Member ✭✭
    edited May 2, 2019

    You are right, but ANet did this in many other story instances, so nothing really changed, this is mainly due to a bad design, but to produce fun and engaging contents is not easy at all, I found LS4 one of the worst and boring ever, my opinion, maybe many of the designers that did this cr*p were fired recently for this reason :D
    I think they just made more difficult this kind of story because many toxic endgamers whined the story is too easy, so now You must do Your PERSONAL Story using LFG (a nonsense) a clever use of CM would be a better solution but this imply more work, more money, more effort and so on.
    Let's hope things will be better in the future, for now, just rush this horrendous story and leave it behind as soon as possible, maybe with the help of your guild mates or LFG, this is the sad real world for now.

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