Does anyone else hate relying on healers/support? - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Does anyone else hate relying on healers/support?

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Comments

  • Gw 2 dont lock classes to same roles like in other games

  • @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    I'm not quoting a particular thing you said, because, well, everything you said i can see and feel.

    It's the reason I use GW2 as a main (now) or second MMO to play. I play WoW as well. Thats the holy trinity game where you absolutely need a healer or GG. Raiding becomes a second job. It's actually pathetic. I play games to relax and have fun, not work. (which is why i can never be a youtuber. twitch maybe, but not a youtuber). tanking (at least back in B.C. and WotLK) was so exhausting and stressful that it made me quit for 2 years.

    GW2 for me is or was so completely different that it became a shining example of, we can be different and still be good. Action based combat, no need for a dedicated healer, when played right all classes should be able to take a hit and keep themselves alive. If you wanted to be a more supportive player, go for it. Sold on the spot. Seriously, I preordered off of what they said they wanted to do for GW2 (it also helped that I played GW1 for a number of years as well lol).

    Then they added stand alone raids for like 5% of the player base. Why they did this and not more open world stuff is beyond me. There are 2 wickedly good raiding games out there right now in both FF and WoW. Why the player base cant go back to those is beyond me. GW2 is not those games.

    I refuse to raid in this game. I refuse to help it get better. I bash it everytime i get the chance. if i want to raid, I go play WoW, and even then.. what if im not in the mood to raid at 7pm on wednesday? or what if i dont want to play my chrono today (in the case of GW2).

    Now that being said, i do like the fact that supportive roles are better off now. It was pointless to have a water based ele with healing gear pre-HoT. I think the player base of any game generally wants "easy mode". I remember the zerker gear craze to speed clear runs pre-hot. and now, people just want to watch t.v. while they play so they need that "back up support" because they arent really playing...

    paying attention use to be the most important aspect to this game

    Gw2 raids compared to other games is a joke. And there is more than 5% raiders

    "are" a joke.

    sorry. 10%. there are not as many as you think there is.

    But if they enjoy it like the insane ppl who plays cm t4s why make it hardee

    I see you missed the point but continued on anyways. Not once did I mention making it harder. where did you get that from? if you think i want it harder its because the overall player base struggles with dodge mechanics.

    GW2 is NOT a raiding game. it wasn't designed as such from the beginning either. The "raids" we did have were all outdoor. ArenaNet could have left it this way, just like dragon strand, but added a couple of more full on meta type maps.

    those 10% who enjoy raiding so much should go play a raiding game like I do when i feel a need for it. GW2 is not a raiding game and they made certain things easier because the vocal community like to afk auto-attack farm. They also completely neglected PvP and some aspects of WvW. A lot of people use to use WoW as the raiding game and GW2 as the PvP / WvW game.

    you say the raids here are a joke compared to other games. so why are they even here when the mass majority of the player base doesnt even care and would rather have better fixes and updates in other aspect of the game?

    Characters: Iiri Ventari, Sylvari - Scourge; Ralistu, Asura - Mirage; Olaf Sifhalla, Norn - Dragonhunter; Jahin Vabb, Sylvari - Renegade; Shonek Alcazia, Human - Weaver (Tempest soonish).
    Backburner: Englaka, Asura - Ranger. Ikotag, Charr - Thief

  • Grogba.6204Grogba.6204 Member ✭✭✭

    Open world has been a joke for years (getting better though) but you don't see me running around crusading against a type of content I don't enjoy.

  • @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    I'm not quoting a particular thing you said, because, well, everything you said i can see and feel.

    It's the reason I use GW2 as a main (now) or second MMO to play. I play WoW as well. Thats the holy trinity game where you absolutely need a healer or GG. Raiding becomes a second job. It's actually pathetic. I play games to relax and have fun, not work. (which is why i can never be a youtuber. twitch maybe, but not a youtuber). tanking (at least back in B.C. and WotLK) was so exhausting and stressful that it made me quit for 2 years.

    GW2 for me is or was so completely different that it became a shining example of, we can be different and still be good. Action based combat, no need for a dedicated healer, when played right all classes should be able to take a hit and keep themselves alive. If you wanted to be a more supportive player, go for it. Sold on the spot. Seriously, I preordered off of what they said they wanted to do for GW2 (it also helped that I played GW1 for a number of years as well lol).

    Then they added stand alone raids for like 5% of the player base. Why they did this and not more open world stuff is beyond me. There are 2 wickedly good raiding games out there right now in both FF and WoW. Why the player base cant go back to those is beyond me. GW2 is not those games.

    I refuse to raid in this game. I refuse to help it get better. I bash it everytime i get the chance. if i want to raid, I go play WoW, and even then.. what if im not in the mood to raid at 7pm on wednesday? or what if i dont want to play my chrono today (in the case of GW2).

    Now that being said, i do like the fact that supportive roles are better off now. It was pointless to have a water based ele with healing gear pre-HoT. I think the player base of any game generally wants "easy mode". I remember the zerker gear craze to speed clear runs pre-hot. and now, people just want to watch t.v. while they play so they need that "back up support" because they arent really playing...

    paying attention use to be the most important aspect to this game

    Gw2 raids compared to other games is a joke. And there is more than 5% raiders

    "are" a joke.

    sorry. 10%. there are not as many as you think there is.

    But if they enjoy it like the insane ppl who plays cm t4s why make it hardee

    I see you missed the point but continued on anyways. Not once did I mention making it harder. where did you get that from? if you think i want it harder its because the overall player base struggles with dodge mechanics.

    GW2 is NOT a raiding game. it wasn't designed as such from the beginning either. The "raids" we did have were all outdoor. ArenaNet could have left it this way, just like dragon strand, but added a couple of more full on meta type maps.

    those 10% who enjoy raiding so much should go play a raiding game like I do when i feel a need for it. GW2 is not a raiding game and they made certain things easier because the vocal community like to afk auto-attack farm. They also completely neglected PvP and some aspects of WvW. A lot of people use to use WoW as the raiding game and GW2 as the PvP / WvW game.

    you say the raids here are a joke compared to other games. so why are they even here when the mass majority of the player base doesnt even care and would rather have better fixes and updates in other aspect of the game?

    Gw 2 was not a game with mini raids like fractal either yes i call fractals mini raids for its what they are

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    I'm not quoting a particular thing you said, because, well, everything you said i can see and feel.

    It's the reason I use GW2 as a main (now) or second MMO to play. I play WoW as well. Thats the holy trinity game where you absolutely need a healer or GG. Raiding becomes a second job. It's actually pathetic. I play games to relax and have fun, not work. (which is why i can never be a youtuber. twitch maybe, but not a youtuber). tanking (at least back in B.C. and WotLK) was so exhausting and stressful that it made me quit for 2 years.

    GW2 for me is or was so completely different that it became a shining example of, we can be different and still be good. Action based combat, no need for a dedicated healer, when played right all classes should be able to take a hit and keep themselves alive. If you wanted to be a more supportive player, go for it. Sold on the spot. Seriously, I preordered off of what they said they wanted to do for GW2 (it also helped that I played GW1 for a number of years as well lol).

    Then they added stand alone raids for like 5% of the player base. Why they did this and not more open world stuff is beyond me. There are 2 wickedly good raiding games out there right now in both FF and WoW. Why the player base cant go back to those is beyond me. GW2 is not those games.

    I refuse to raid in this game. I refuse to help it get better. I bash it everytime i get the chance. if i want to raid, I go play WoW, and even then.. what if im not in the mood to raid at 7pm on wednesday? or what if i dont want to play my chrono today (in the case of GW2).

    Now that being said, i do like the fact that supportive roles are better off now. It was pointless to have a water based ele with healing gear pre-HoT. I think the player base of any game generally wants "easy mode". I remember the zerker gear craze to speed clear runs pre-hot. and now, people just want to watch t.v. while they play so they need that "back up support" because they arent really playing...

    paying attention use to be the most important aspect to this game

    Gw2 raids compared to other games is a joke. And there is more than 5% raiders

    "are" a joke.

    sorry. 10%. there are not as many as you think there is.

    But if they enjoy it like the insane ppl who plays cm t4s why make it hardee

    I see you missed the point but continued on anyways. Not once did I mention making it harder. where did you get that from? if you think i want it harder its because the overall player base struggles with dodge mechanics.

    GW2 is NOT a raiding game. it wasn't designed as such from the beginning either. The "raids" we did have were all outdoor. ArenaNet could have left it this way, just like dragon strand, but added a couple of more full on meta type maps.

    those 10% who enjoy raiding so much should go play a raiding game like I do when i feel a need for it. GW2 is not a raiding game and they made certain things easier because the vocal community like to afk auto-attack farm. They also completely neglected PvP and some aspects of WvW. A lot of people use to use WoW as the raiding game and GW2 as the PvP / WvW game.

    you say the raids here are a joke compared to other games. so why are they even here when the mass majority of the player base doesnt even care and would rather have better fixes and updates in other aspect of the game?

    Gw 2 was not a game with mini raids like fractal either yes i call fractals mini raids for its what they are

    How are fractals mini raids you can go in with 5 dps and still do any fractal, it will just take longer.
    Now try to do any raid boss with only dps specs.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    I'm not quoting a particular thing you said, because, well, everything you said i can see and feel.

    It's the reason I use GW2 as a main (now) or second MMO to play. I play WoW as well. Thats the holy trinity game where you absolutely need a healer or GG. Raiding becomes a second job. It's actually pathetic. I play games to relax and have fun, not work. (which is why i can never be a youtuber. twitch maybe, but not a youtuber). tanking (at least back in B.C. and WotLK) was so exhausting and stressful that it made me quit for 2 years.

    GW2 for me is or was so completely different that it became a shining example of, we can be different and still be good. Action based combat, no need for a dedicated healer, when played right all classes should be able to take a hit and keep themselves alive. If you wanted to be a more supportive player, go for it. Sold on the spot. Seriously, I preordered off of what they said they wanted to do for GW2 (it also helped that I played GW1 for a number of years as well lol).

    Then they added stand alone raids for like 5% of the player base. Why they did this and not more open world stuff is beyond me. There are 2 wickedly good raiding games out there right now in both FF and WoW. Why the player base cant go back to those is beyond me. GW2 is not those games.

    I refuse to raid in this game. I refuse to help it get better. I bash it everytime i get the chance. if i want to raid, I go play WoW, and even then.. what if im not in the mood to raid at 7pm on wednesday? or what if i dont want to play my chrono today (in the case of GW2).

    Now that being said, i do like the fact that supportive roles are better off now. It was pointless to have a water based ele with healing gear pre-HoT. I think the player base of any game generally wants "easy mode". I remember the zerker gear craze to speed clear runs pre-hot. and now, people just want to watch t.v. while they play so they need that "back up support" because they arent really playing...

    paying attention use to be the most important aspect to this game

    Gw2 raids compared to other games is a joke. And there is more than 5% raiders

    "are" a joke.

    sorry. 10%. there are not as many as you think there is.

    But if they enjoy it like the insane ppl who plays cm t4s why make it hardee

    I see you missed the point but continued on anyways. Not once did I mention making it harder. where did you get that from? if you think i want it harder its because the overall player base struggles with dodge mechanics.

    GW2 is NOT a raiding game. it wasn't designed as such from the beginning either. The "raids" we did have were all outdoor. ArenaNet could have left it this way, just like dragon strand, but added a couple of more full on meta type maps.

    those 10% who enjoy raiding so much should go play a raiding game like I do when i feel a need for it. GW2 is not a raiding game and they made certain things easier because the vocal community like to afk auto-attack farm. They also completely neglected PvP and some aspects of WvW. A lot of people use to use WoW as the raiding game and GW2 as the PvP / WvW game.

    you say the raids here are a joke compared to other games. so why are they even here when the mass majority of the player base doesnt even care and would rather have better fixes and updates in other aspect of the game?

    Gw 2 was not a game with mini raids like fractal either yes i call fractals mini raids for its what they are

    How are fractals mini raids you can go in with 5 dps and still do any fractal, it will just take longer.
    Now try to do any raid boss with only dps specs.

    Is actually possible. On a lot of bosses atleast.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2018

    I hate relying on healers because it does go against one of the reasons i do play this game, i wish they where removed(i know an unpopular opinion). I do however have an appreciation for support classes/specs and wish the "healers" where instead relegated to support duty that didnt force them to be used for things like raids for just healing.

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    I'm not quoting a particular thing you said, because, well, everything you said i can see and feel.

    It's the reason I use GW2 as a main (now) or second MMO to play. I play WoW as well. Thats the holy trinity game where you absolutely need a healer or GG. Raiding becomes a second job. It's actually pathetic. I play games to relax and have fun, not work. (which is why i can never be a youtuber. twitch maybe, but not a youtuber). tanking (at least back in B.C. and WotLK) was so exhausting and stressful that it made me quit for 2 years.

    GW2 for me is or was so completely different that it became a shining example of, we can be different and still be good. Action based combat, no need for a dedicated healer, when played right all classes should be able to take a hit and keep themselves alive. If you wanted to be a more supportive player, go for it. Sold on the spot. Seriously, I preordered off of what they said they wanted to do for GW2 (it also helped that I played GW1 for a number of years as well lol).

    Then they added stand alone raids for like 5% of the player base. Why they did this and not more open world stuff is beyond me. There are 2 wickedly good raiding games out there right now in both FF and WoW. Why the player base cant go back to those is beyond me. GW2 is not those games.

    I refuse to raid in this game. I refuse to help it get better. I bash it everytime i get the chance. if i want to raid, I go play WoW, and even then.. what if im not in the mood to raid at 7pm on wednesday? or what if i dont want to play my chrono today (in the case of GW2).

    Now that being said, i do like the fact that supportive roles are better off now. It was pointless to have a water based ele with healing gear pre-HoT. I think the player base of any game generally wants "easy mode". I remember the zerker gear craze to speed clear runs pre-hot. and now, people just want to watch t.v. while they play so they need that "back up support" because they arent really playing...

    paying attention use to be the most important aspect to this game

    Gw2 raids compared to other games is a joke. And there is more than 5% raiders

    "are" a joke.

    sorry. 10%. there are not as many as you think there is.

    But if they enjoy it like the insane ppl who plays cm t4s why make it hardee

    I see you missed the point but continued on anyways. Not once did I mention making it harder. where did you get that from? if you think i want it harder its because the overall player base struggles with dodge mechanics.

    GW2 is NOT a raiding game. it wasn't designed as such from the beginning either. The "raids" we did have were all outdoor. ArenaNet could have left it this way, just like dragon strand, but added a couple of more full on meta type maps.

    those 10% who enjoy raiding so much should go play a raiding game like I do when i feel a need for it. GW2 is not a raiding game and they made certain things easier because the vocal community like to afk auto-attack farm. They also completely neglected PvP and some aspects of WvW. A lot of people use to use WoW as the raiding game and GW2 as the PvP / WvW game.

    you say the raids here are a joke compared to other games. so why are they even here when the mass majority of the player base doesnt even care and would rather have better fixes and updates in other aspect of the game?

    Gw 2 was not a game with mini raids like fractal either yes i call fractals mini raids for its what they are

    How are fractals mini raids you can go in with 5 dps and still do any fractal, it will just take longer.
    Now try to do any raid boss with only dps specs.

    The only ones that ive had take longer with 5dps specs where challenge modes, the rest went sooo much faster with just 5 DPS(provided they know how to play).

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2018

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    I'm not quoting a particular thing you said, because, well, everything you said i can see and feel.

    It's the reason I use GW2 as a main (now) or second MMO to play. I play WoW as well. Thats the holy trinity game where you absolutely need a healer or GG. Raiding becomes a second job. It's actually pathetic. I play games to relax and have fun, not work. (which is why i can never be a youtuber. twitch maybe, but not a youtuber). tanking (at least back in B.C. and WotLK) was so exhausting and stressful that it made me quit for 2 years.

    GW2 for me is or was so completely different that it became a shining example of, we can be different and still be good. Action based combat, no need for a dedicated healer, when played right all classes should be able to take a hit and keep themselves alive. If you wanted to be a more supportive player, go for it. Sold on the spot. Seriously, I preordered off of what they said they wanted to do for GW2 (it also helped that I played GW1 for a number of years as well lol).

    Then they added stand alone raids for like 5% of the player base. Why they did this and not more open world stuff is beyond me. There are 2 wickedly good raiding games out there right now in both FF and WoW. Why the player base cant go back to those is beyond me. GW2 is not those games.

    I refuse to raid in this game. I refuse to help it get better. I bash it everytime i get the chance. if i want to raid, I go play WoW, and even then.. what if im not in the mood to raid at 7pm on wednesday? or what if i dont want to play my chrono today (in the case of GW2).

    Now that being said, i do like the fact that supportive roles are better off now. It was pointless to have a water based ele with healing gear pre-HoT. I think the player base of any game generally wants "easy mode". I remember the zerker gear craze to speed clear runs pre-hot. and now, people just want to watch t.v. while they play so they need that "back up support" because they arent really playing...

    paying attention use to be the most important aspect to this game

    Gw2 raids compared to other games is a joke. And there is more than 5% raiders

    "are" a joke.

    sorry. 10%. there are not as many as you think there is.

    But if they enjoy it like the insane ppl who plays cm t4s why make it hardee

    I see you missed the point but continued on anyways. Not once did I mention making it harder. where did you get that from? if you think i want it harder its because the overall player base struggles with dodge mechanics.

    GW2 is NOT a raiding game. it wasn't designed as such from the beginning either. The "raids" we did have were all outdoor. ArenaNet could have left it this way, just like dragon strand, but added a couple of more full on meta type maps.

    those 10% who enjoy raiding so much should go play a raiding game like I do when i feel a need for it. GW2 is not a raiding game and they made certain things easier because the vocal community like to afk auto-attack farm. They also completely neglected PvP and some aspects of WvW. A lot of people use to use WoW as the raiding game and GW2 as the PvP / WvW game.

    you say the raids here are a joke compared to other games. so why are they even here when the mass majority of the player base doesnt even care and would rather have better fixes and updates in other aspect of the game?

    Gw 2 was not a game with mini raids like fractal either yes i call fractals mini raids for its what they are

    How are fractals mini raids you can go in with 5 dps and still do any fractal, it will just take longer.
    Now try to do any raid boss with only dps specs.

    Is actually possible. On a lot of bosses atleast.

    What raid bosses would that be I havent seen one were atleast 1 healer aint taken.

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I hate relying on healers because it does go against one of the reasons i do play this game, i wish they where removed(i know an unpopular opinion). I do however have an appreciation for support classes/specs and wish the "healers" where instead relegated to support duty that didnt force them to be used for things like raids for just healing.

    @Linken.6345 said:
    How are fractals mini raids you can go in with 5 dps and still do any fractal, it will just take longer.
    Now try to do any raid boss with only dps specs.

    The only ones that ive had take longer with 5dps specs where challenge modes, the rest went sooo much faster with just 5 DPS(provided they know how to play).

    Healers as well as tanks to more then just heal and position boss in raids mate.
    There is a reason why the worst healer is usualy taken over the others.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2018

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    I'm not quoting a particular thing you said, because, well, everything you said i can see and feel.

    It's the reason I use GW2 as a main (now) or second MMO to play. I play WoW as well. Thats the holy trinity game where you absolutely need a healer or GG. Raiding becomes a second job. It's actually pathetic. I play games to relax and have fun, not work. (which is why i can never be a youtuber. twitch maybe, but not a youtuber). tanking (at least back in B.C. and WotLK) was so exhausting and stressful that it made me quit for 2 years.

    GW2 for me is or was so completely different that it became a shining example of, we can be different and still be good. Action based combat, no need for a dedicated healer, when played right all classes should be able to take a hit and keep themselves alive. If you wanted to be a more supportive player, go for it. Sold on the spot. Seriously, I preordered off of what they said they wanted to do for GW2 (it also helped that I played GW1 for a number of years as well lol).

    Then they added stand alone raids for like 5% of the player base. Why they did this and not more open world stuff is beyond me. There are 2 wickedly good raiding games out there right now in both FF and WoW. Why the player base cant go back to those is beyond me. GW2 is not those games.

    I refuse to raid in this game. I refuse to help it get better. I bash it everytime i get the chance. if i want to raid, I go play WoW, and even then.. what if im not in the mood to raid at 7pm on wednesday? or what if i dont want to play my chrono today (in the case of GW2).

    Now that being said, i do like the fact that supportive roles are better off now. It was pointless to have a water based ele with healing gear pre-HoT. I think the player base of any game generally wants "easy mode". I remember the zerker gear craze to speed clear runs pre-hot. and now, people just want to watch t.v. while they play so they need that "back up support" because they arent really playing...

    paying attention use to be the most important aspect to this game

    Gw2 raids compared to other games is a joke. And there is more than 5% raiders

    "are" a joke.

    sorry. 10%. there are not as many as you think there is.

    But if they enjoy it like the insane ppl who plays cm t4s why make it hardee

    I see you missed the point but continued on anyways. Not once did I mention making it harder. where did you get that from? if you think i want it harder its because the overall player base struggles with dodge mechanics.

    GW2 is NOT a raiding game. it wasn't designed as such from the beginning either. The "raids" we did have were all outdoor. ArenaNet could have left it this way, just like dragon strand, but added a couple of more full on meta type maps.

    those 10% who enjoy raiding so much should go play a raiding game like I do when i feel a need for it. GW2 is not a raiding game and they made certain things easier because the vocal community like to afk auto-attack farm. They also completely neglected PvP and some aspects of WvW. A lot of people use to use WoW as the raiding game and GW2 as the PvP / WvW game.

    you say the raids here are a joke compared to other games. so why are they even here when the mass majority of the player base doesnt even care and would rather have better fixes and updates in other aspect of the game?

    Gw 2 was not a game with mini raids like fractal either yes i call fractals mini raids for its what they are

    How are fractals mini raids you can go in with 5 dps and still do any fractal, it will just take longer.
    Now try to do any raid boss with only dps specs.

    Is actually possible. On a lot of bosses atleast.

    What raid bosses would that be I havent seen one were atleast 1 healer aint taken.

    Gors, Sab, MO, samarog, deimos.
    And during the epibounce Era no druids where taken on speedclears

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    I'm not quoting a particular thing you said, because, well, everything you said i can see and feel.

    It's the reason I use GW2 as a main (now) or second MMO to play. I play WoW as well. Thats the holy trinity game where you absolutely need a healer or GG. Raiding becomes a second job. It's actually pathetic. I play games to relax and have fun, not work. (which is why i can never be a youtuber. twitch maybe, but not a youtuber). tanking (at least back in B.C. and WotLK) was so exhausting and stressful that it made me quit for 2 years.

    GW2 for me is or was so completely different that it became a shining example of, we can be different and still be good. Action based combat, no need for a dedicated healer, when played right all classes should be able to take a hit and keep themselves alive. If you wanted to be a more supportive player, go for it. Sold on the spot. Seriously, I preordered off of what they said they wanted to do for GW2 (it also helped that I played GW1 for a number of years as well lol).

    Then they added stand alone raids for like 5% of the player base. Why they did this and not more open world stuff is beyond me. There are 2 wickedly good raiding games out there right now in both FF and WoW. Why the player base cant go back to those is beyond me. GW2 is not those games.

    I refuse to raid in this game. I refuse to help it get better. I bash it everytime i get the chance. if i want to raid, I go play WoW, and even then.. what if im not in the mood to raid at 7pm on wednesday? or what if i dont want to play my chrono today (in the case of GW2).

    Now that being said, i do like the fact that supportive roles are better off now. It was pointless to have a water based ele with healing gear pre-HoT. I think the player base of any game generally wants "easy mode". I remember the zerker gear craze to speed clear runs pre-hot. and now, people just want to watch t.v. while they play so they need that "back up support" because they arent really playing...

    paying attention use to be the most important aspect to this game

    Gw2 raids compared to other games is a joke. And there is more than 5% raiders

    "are" a joke.

    sorry. 10%. there are not as many as you think there is.

    But if they enjoy it like the insane ppl who plays cm t4s why make it hardee

    I see you missed the point but continued on anyways. Not once did I mention making it harder. where did you get that from? if you think i want it harder its because the overall player base struggles with dodge mechanics.

    GW2 is NOT a raiding game. it wasn't designed as such from the beginning either. The "raids" we did have were all outdoor. ArenaNet could have left it this way, just like dragon strand, but added a couple of more full on meta type maps.

    those 10% who enjoy raiding so much should go play a raiding game like I do when i feel a need for it. GW2 is not a raiding game and they made certain things easier because the vocal community like to afk auto-attack farm. They also completely neglected PvP and some aspects of WvW. A lot of people use to use WoW as the raiding game and GW2 as the PvP / WvW game.

    you say the raids here are a joke compared to other games. so why are they even here when the mass majority of the player base doesnt even care and would rather have better fixes and updates in other aspect of the game?

    Gw 2 was not a game with mini raids like fractal either yes i call fractals mini raids for its what they are

    How are fractals mini raids you can go in with 5 dps and still do any fractal, it will just take longer.
    Now try to do any raid boss with only dps specs.

    Is actually possible. On a lot of bosses atleast.

    What raid bosses would that be I havent seen one were atleast 1 healer aint taken.

    Gors, Sab, MO, samarog, deimos.
    And during the epibounce Era no druids where taken on speedclears

    Guess I havent been in the pro squads then and now when you say it I could see the better players pulling those off.
    Are 5 out of 18 bosses really enough to call fractals mini raids tho?

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Ralistu.1965 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    I'm not quoting a particular thing you said, because, well, everything you said i can see and feel.

    It's the reason I use GW2 as a main (now) or second MMO to play. I play WoW as well. Thats the holy trinity game where you absolutely need a healer or GG. Raiding becomes a second job. It's actually pathetic. I play games to relax and have fun, not work. (which is why i can never be a youtuber. twitch maybe, but not a youtuber). tanking (at least back in B.C. and WotLK) was so exhausting and stressful that it made me quit for 2 years.

    GW2 for me is or was so completely different that it became a shining example of, we can be different and still be good. Action based combat, no need for a dedicated healer, when played right all classes should be able to take a hit and keep themselves alive. If you wanted to be a more supportive player, go for it. Sold on the spot. Seriously, I preordered off of what they said they wanted to do for GW2 (it also helped that I played GW1 for a number of years as well lol).

    Then they added stand alone raids for like 5% of the player base. Why they did this and not more open world stuff is beyond me. There are 2 wickedly good raiding games out there right now in both FF and WoW. Why the player base cant go back to those is beyond me. GW2 is not those games.

    I refuse to raid in this game. I refuse to help it get better. I bash it everytime i get the chance. if i want to raid, I go play WoW, and even then.. what if im not in the mood to raid at 7pm on wednesday? or what if i dont want to play my chrono today (in the case of GW2).

    Now that being said, i do like the fact that supportive roles are better off now. It was pointless to have a water based ele with healing gear pre-HoT. I think the player base of any game generally wants "easy mode". I remember the zerker gear craze to speed clear runs pre-hot. and now, people just want to watch t.v. while they play so they need that "back up support" because they arent really playing...

    paying attention use to be the most important aspect to this game

    Gw2 raids compared to other games is a joke. And there is more than 5% raiders

    "are" a joke.

    sorry. 10%. there are not as many as you think there is.

    But if they enjoy it like the insane ppl who plays cm t4s why make it hardee

    I see you missed the point but continued on anyways. Not once did I mention making it harder. where did you get that from? if you think i want it harder its because the overall player base struggles with dodge mechanics.

    GW2 is NOT a raiding game. it wasn't designed as such from the beginning either. The "raids" we did have were all outdoor. ArenaNet could have left it this way, just like dragon strand, but added a couple of more full on meta type maps.

    those 10% who enjoy raiding so much should go play a raiding game like I do when i feel a need for it. GW2 is not a raiding game and they made certain things easier because the vocal community like to afk auto-attack farm. They also completely neglected PvP and some aspects of WvW. A lot of people use to use WoW as the raiding game and GW2 as the PvP / WvW game.

    you say the raids here are a joke compared to other games. so why are they even here when the mass majority of the player base doesnt even care and would rather have better fixes and updates in other aspect of the game?

    Gw 2 was not a game with mini raids like fractal either yes i call fractals mini raids for its what they are

    How are fractals mini raids you can go in with 5 dps and still do any fractal, it will just take longer.
    Now try to do any raid boss with only dps specs.

    Is actually possible. On a lot of bosses atleast.

    What raid bosses would that be I havent seen one were atleast 1 healer aint taken.

    Gors, Sab, MO, samarog, deimos.
    And during the epibounce Era no druids where taken on speedclears

    Guess I havent been in the pro squads then and now when you say it I could see the better players pulling those off.
    Are 5 out of 18 bosses really enough to call fractals mini raids tho?

    We'll I don't think so because they are structured differently (although 100cm absolutely can be called that)

    The problem I feel is that people are so used to think in terms of healer dps and tank that most people don't realist that only dps is the "pure" roll we have

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ralistu.1965 said:
    I see you missed the point but continued on anyways. Not once did I mention making it harder. where did you get that from? if you think i want it harder its because the overall player base struggles with dodge mechanics.

    GW2 is NOT a raiding game. it wasn't designed as such from the beginning either. The "raids" we did have were all outdoor. ArenaNet could have left it this way, just like dragon strand, but added a couple of more full on meta type maps.

    What's the problem with raids in GW2 if you don't play or don't like to play them? Even if you think raiders only are 5% of the player base. What does it matter to you in terms of having a heal or support class? The overwhelming majority of the content isn't played by support or heal classes since I haven't heard about the need to play a healer in the living story instances or on the open world maps. Even for festivals like Halloween I don't see any place in which you need to play something special. Almost all content in the game is like "Play How You Want".

    those 10% who enjoy raiding so much should go play a raiding game like I do when i feel a need for it. GW2 is not a raiding game and they made certain things easier because the vocal community like to afk auto-attack farm. They also completely neglected PvP and some aspects of WvW. A lot of people use to use WoW as the raiding game and GW2 as the PvP / WvW game.

    Why should people play a different game if they like the aspect of being able to switch modes within a single game? Lots of people like the possibility to do different stuff during their play time. Why should people be forced to invest a huge amount of time to get appropriate gear & stuff in 2 different games which would mean invest more time than absolutely needed? Also, like I mentioned above most of the game was & is still very easy. The introduction of raids have nothing to do with it. It has been like that before and nowadays.
    PvP and WvW didn't fail because raids got in the game. Both game modes are treated stepmotherly because the company is too small to have enough and qualified staff.
    Last but not least I doubt that a "lot of people" play both - GW2 and WoW - as it's rather either you like GW2 and don't like WoW or the other way round. Sure, there are some players that do both but that's definitely not the norm.

    you say the raids here are a joke compared to other games. so why are they even here when the mass majority of the player base doesnt even care and would rather have better fixes and updates in other aspect of the game?

    Even with no raid team the game wouldn't have faster fixes and updates. Your assumption that the raid team bundles resources of other content is wrong and was already declined by Anet. In addition the LS teams are much bigger than the little core raid team and still they need more than 3 months to release a map. With developers it's the same like with cooks: Too many cooks spoil the broth.

  • Search for the Medditrapper build, you will have extra heal and fury at the same time.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    About the quote, an interesting way to read it. Though, not one I agree with. Feels more like they went backwards on that idea. The game used to be easier as far as support roles were concerned. Everyone did their small part of said support but nobody was forced to take the full responsibility. This certainly changed and keeps getting worse. The Fractal support Chronomancer (which is mostly played in combination with a warrior and three full damage dealers) comes to mind. They have absolutely everything pushed on them to allow everyone else to focus on damage dealing (outside of a few minor things).
    The Chronos build the entire car, set everything up perfectly to allow their team to apply a pretty paint job at the end.

    You're agreement on that quote is not necessary, that it is what it is.

    So moving along.

    Now see, that is what is wrong with the whole role or task based system. In your explanation, everyone ends up waiting on the Chrono, just like in Archaic games like EQ, where invariably everyone ended up waiting on the Cleric. IMHO, there is no worse game design then when you have players waiting on some specific class to enable their game play as opposed to being able to just grab some friends, take whatever you have, and go on an adventure and have some fun.

    See role based games are actually counter intuitive to community based games, because at the core of role games, when something goes wrong, they can't help each other, so they end up looking for the someone to blame for the failure.. who did not do their mandatory task like a good little cog!

    Now, Originally, GW2 had a great design where you could play whatever class you liked, and could join your friends and go have fun, as everyone took full responsibility for the run, anyone could step in and do whatever needed to get done, needed some support, healing, buffs, DPS, whatever, anyone could handle it for a bit, so unlike role based play where everyone only focuses on their task, it was a team of people all actually working together towards a common goal, and could back each other up as needed, if someone made a mistake, others could step in and carry, recover, and move on. If someone died, the rest of the team was not hapless to continue on and finish the encounter. Which is really what a good team play is about, where no one is stuck waiting on someone else to enable them to keep going.

    Which, going back to EQ, which started this whole strict role based classes, if while doing a dungeon crawl, like in lower Guk, for example, if the Cleric or the Enchanter Died, it did not matter what other classes made up the party, you were suddenly at a choice of two, die where you stand, or flee. That was to me, the worst way to build class design that I could have ever thought of. I mean, the whole "Trinity" ideas as it were, was horrible at it's core, it basically meant if anyone single one of them failed, everyone failed. Really? This is what people find fun? Being hapless and helpless if someone else makes a mistake? That is what people think is good team play?

    No, Good Team Play, is where we as a team can work together, we can cover for each other, and we can get the job done, that means we can all step up or step in for any role to keep things moving along, to assist each other.

    To give an analogy.

    Role Based Play is like a Professional Sport Team, where you have a bunch of entertainers that are getting paid to do a specific task, each one basking in their own glory about how well they can do their specific chosen task and the rewards they will reap for doing so. All the wile they never actually need to care about the other members of their team, or what they are doing, since they are myopic in their task, they are powerless to do anything if another team member screws up anyway.

    I really don't see the attraction to that kind of game play, but obviously enough people must love this.

    Team Play or Team Work, as it were, is like a Military Unit. Yes, they may have a demolitions expert, but everyone else on the team is also trained in Demolitions, just in case they need to step in and handle the situation, or just help the expert out getting things done faster. Equally so, everyone is trained in Combat, Physical, Blade, and Gun. The whole team work in this venture is that each person on that team might excel and be the best at a specific task, all of them are cross trained so that all of them can cover for each other, in case something goes wrong, as such, all of them are looking out for each other and assisting each other as needed.

    I for the life of me, cannot fathom why anyone would not want to play that kind of game, which is what GW2 was at first made to be like.

    With that said, as odd as this may be, people hated being able to step in and step up to help each other so much, they got the game to become where everyone is now waiting on a chrono and/or druid.

    And for the sake of fairness, I sometimes miss the former focus on combo fields and finishers even if I do not dislike how things work now.
    However, evolution is simply inevitable if we wish to stop anything from stagnating. We'd still be using horse carriages if we had refused to let our system of personal transport evolve. There are many downsides to cars but they still allowed our society to do a huge leap. People might dislike certain changes or features introduced with the expansions but they were ultimately needed to allow the game to evolve.

    The thing here that you seem to miss, is that GW2 was an evolution from it's predecessors like EQ and WoW, as such, seeing people want to go back to Role based Classes, is a devolution, it akin to watching angry masses unhappy with their Tesla Roadster and demanding we go back to Horse and Wagons.

    I don't get it.. I will never get it.. and I cannot for the life of me see any benefit to what happened to this game. It's a sad tale.

    Never said my agreement, or yours for that matter, is in any way required for anything. You still don't have it either way.

    The game of analogies...
    GW2 hardly devolved back to horses and carriages. They simply decided to move away from their previous idea of only allowing electric cars which turned to be a little too impractical and rather restrictive. The only races those cars were able to compete in ended up being boring and stale.
    The game, if anything, is using plug-in hybrids now. Not the most futuristic but certainly not completely outdated. Those hybrids even went through a lot of further polishing and upgrading to provide an all around pleasing driving experience.

    Anyways, I am done with agreeing to disagree here.

    Nothing is particularly hard if you divide it into small jobs. Henry Ford

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2018

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    And there is more than 5% raiders

    Are you sure? Notice, that the gw2efficiency numbers (the only ones we have) are almost certainly inflated. And most likely not in a small way.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2018

    @zombyturtle.5980 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    Now, Originally, GW2 had a great design where you could play whatever class you liked, and could join your friends and go have fun, as everyone took full responsibility for the run, anyone could step in and do whatever needed to get done, needed some support, healing, buffs, DPS, whatever, anyone could handle it for a bit, so unlike role based play where everyone only focuses on their task, it was a team of people all actually working together towards a common goal, and could back each other up as needed, if someone made a mistake, others could step in and carry, recover, and move on. If someone died, the rest of the team was not hapless to continue on and finish the encounter. Which is really what a good team play is about, where no one is stuck waiting on someone else to enable them to keep going.

    I couldnt disagree more if I tried. Old style gw2 grouped combat was basically 5 people, playing the same content alone, but along-side each other. You could not support or help your teammates at all outside of pressing F if they went down. Support was so useless it basically didnt exist, and if you did try and play a class with supportive based skills, you were laughed out of content. There literally was no 'support,healing or buffs'. Noone was working together, outside of contributing some damage towards reducing the bosses healthpool.

    I see the problem now, you never learned how to play as a team, so much so, when you were not given a static role or task to do, you, and yours, could not figure out how to work as a together with what you had. Which is explains when given the chance to be able to work together in a new way you could not figure it out, and instead opted to all pick the same static role and cry that the game was boring. This was a fault on your part, not with the game itself.

    See, Group Abilities and Dynamic existed in GW2, and those of us who understood this, had a totally different experience with grouping and dungeon running in GW2 as Anet had put in a very complex and dynamic grouping features that worked on many levels, if and only if you took the time to learn them. Case in point, I remember my first explorer dungeon run (and I wager like many others before and after me) was in Ascalon Catacombs, where we all met Lieutenant Kholer for the first time.

    Kholer had this ability where he would pull people in and do a spin attack, I would hold my "Stand your Ground" shout till he made the choreographed opening move, and give stability to the group so he would not pull us all in, and thus not down us. We would jump back out of his range, and I would follow that up with a Light Field, which other players would use with finishers to cleanse, or someone would drop a water field so we could regenerate as we attacked him.. and swiftly Kholer was a fast take down, IF you knew how to work as a group.

    In fact, using those basic tactics of group play,from simple group buffs to fields and finishers, most dungeons and fractals were very easy, with any combo of classes or builds, it's all about knowing how to play together and knowing your classes abilities.

    When I ended up with people like yourself for example, that only knew how to work together by hitting F is someone was downed and otherwise was just a DPS player, we often ended up needing to call the cave troll.

    But thanks.. I see through your own admittance that the original grouping system and team work design was in fact too complex for a player like yourself, and that you needed to regress back to some stone age system or roles to be able to do anything for your team mates.

    Maybe the next game that comes out, the players themselves will have advanced enough to be able to do more then a monothematic task.

    But thanks, now I understand why so many players needed roles, as they could not think outside doing a single role, I will never embrace that kind of play, and I still think it is an abomination to MMO's in general to implement such designs and make up, it may have worked back in the day of single player games, where we built a group and everyone had to do a set function, but it simply bad design for something as complex as an MMO can be.. but again.. games are as limited as their players it seems.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • @STIHL.2489 said:

    @zombyturtle.5980 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    Now, Originally, GW2 had a great design where you could play whatever class you liked, and could join your friends and go have fun, as everyone took full responsibility for the run, anyone could step in and do whatever needed to get done, needed some support, healing, buffs, DPS, whatever, anyone could handle it for a bit, so unlike role based play where everyone only focuses on their task, it was a team of people all actually working together towards a common goal, and could back each other up as needed, if someone made a mistake, others could step in and carry, recover, and move on. If someone died, the rest of the team was not hapless to continue on and finish the encounter. Which is really what a good team play is about, where no one is stuck waiting on someone else to enable them to keep going.

    I couldnt disagree more if I tried. Old style gw2 grouped combat was basically 5 people, playing the same content alone, but along-side each other. You could not support or help your teammates at all outside of pressing F if they went down. Support was so useless it basically didnt exist, and if you did try and play a class with supportive based skills, you were laughed out of content. There literally was no 'support,healing or buffs'. Noone was working together, outside of contributing some damage towards reducing the bosses healthpool.

    I see the problem now, you never learned how to play as a team, so much so, when you were not given a static role or task to do, you, and yours, could not figure out how to work as a together with what you had. Which is explains when given the chance to be able to work together in a new way you could not figure it out, and instead opted to all pick the same static role and cry that the game was boring. This was a fault on your part, not with the game itself.

    See, Group Abilities and Dynamic existed in GW2, and those of us who understood this, had a totally different experience with grouping and dungeon running in GW2 as Anet had put in a very complex and dynamic grouping features that worked on many levels, if and only if you took the time to learn them. Case in point, I remember my first explorer dungeon run (and I wager like many others before and after me) was in Ascalon Catacombs, where we all met Lieutenant Kholer for the first time.

    Kholer had this ability where he would pull people in and do a spin attack, I would hold my "Stand your Ground" shout till he made the choreographed opening move, and give stability to the group so he would not pull us all in, and thus not down us. We would jump back out of his range, and I would follow that up with a Light Field, which other players would use with finishers to cleanse, or someone would drop a water field so we could regenerate as we attacked him.. and swiftly Kholer was a fast take down, IF you knew how to work as a group.

    In fact, using those basic tactics of group play,from simple group buffs to fields and finishers, most dungeons and fractals were very easy, with any combo of classes or builds, it's all about knowing how to play together and knowing your classes abilities.

    When I ended up with people like yourself for example, that only knew how to work together by hitting F is someone was downed and otherwise was just a DPS player, we often ended up needing to call the cave troll.

    But thanks.. I see through your own admittance that the original grouping system and team work design was in fact too complex for a player like yourself, and that you needed to regress back to some stone age system or roles to be able to do anything for your team mates.

    Maybe the next game that comes out, the players themselves will have advanced enough to be able to do more then a monothematic task.

    But thanks, now I understand why so many players needed roles, as they could not think outside doing a single role, I will never embrace that kind of play, and I still think it is an abomination to MMO's in general to implement such designs and make up, it may have worked back in the day of single player games, where we built a group and everyone had to do a set function, but it simply bad design for something as complex as an MMO can be.. but again.. games are as limited as their players it seems.

    Wow lol im amazed you could possibly be so rude and make so many assumptions about me. For what its worth you are totally wrong but with that attitude you obviously arent going to listen. Glad you posted this so everyone can see what kind of person you are.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zombyturtle.5980 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @zombyturtle.5980 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    Now, Originally, GW2 had a great design where you could play whatever class you liked, and could join your friends and go have fun, as everyone took full responsibility for the run, anyone could step in and do whatever needed to get done, needed some support, healing, buffs, DPS, whatever, anyone could handle it for a bit, so unlike role based play where everyone only focuses on their task, it was a team of people all actually working together towards a common goal, and could back each other up as needed, if someone made a mistake, others could step in and carry, recover, and move on. If someone died, the rest of the team was not hapless to continue on and finish the encounter. Which is really what a good team play is about, where no one is stuck waiting on someone else to enable them to keep going.

    I couldnt disagree more if I tried. Old style gw2 grouped combat was basically 5 people, playing the same content alone, but along-side each other. You could not support or help your teammates at all outside of pressing F if they went down. Support was so useless it basically didnt exist, and if you did try and play a class with supportive based skills, you were laughed out of content. There literally was no 'support,healing or buffs'. Noone was working together, outside of contributing some damage towards reducing the bosses healthpool.

    I see the problem now, you never learned how to play as a team, so much so, when you were not given a static role or task to do, you, and yours, could not figure out how to work as a together with what you had. Which is explains when given the chance to be able to work together in a new way you could not figure it out, and instead opted to all pick the same static role and cry that the game was boring. This was a fault on your part, not with the game itself.

    See, Group Abilities and Dynamic existed in GW2, and those of us who understood this, had a totally different experience with grouping and dungeon running in GW2 as Anet had put in a very complex and dynamic grouping features that worked on many levels, if and only if you took the time to learn them. Case in point, I remember my first explorer dungeon run (and I wager like many others before and after me) was in Ascalon Catacombs, where we all met Lieutenant Kholer for the first time.

    Kholer had this ability where he would pull people in and do a spin attack, I would hold my "Stand your Ground" shout till he made the choreographed opening move, and give stability to the group so he would not pull us all in, and thus not down us. We would jump back out of his range, and I would follow that up with a Light Field, which other players would use with finishers to cleanse, or someone would drop a water field so we could regenerate as we attacked him.. and swiftly Kholer was a fast take down, IF you knew how to work as a group.

    In fact, using those basic tactics of group play,from simple group buffs to fields and finishers, most dungeons and fractals were very easy, with any combo of classes or builds, it's all about knowing how to play together and knowing your classes abilities.

    When I ended up with people like yourself for example, that only knew how to work together by hitting F is someone was downed and otherwise was just a DPS player, we often ended up needing to call the cave troll.

    But thanks.. I see through your own admittance that the original grouping system and team work design was in fact too complex for a player like yourself, and that you needed to regress back to some stone age system or roles to be able to do anything for your team mates.

    Maybe the next game that comes out, the players themselves will have advanced enough to be able to do more then a monothematic task.

    But thanks, now I understand why so many players needed roles, as they could not think outside doing a single role, I will never embrace that kind of play, and I still think it is an abomination to MMO's in general to implement such designs and make up, it may have worked back in the day of single player games, where we built a group and everyone had to do a set function, but it simply bad design for something as complex as an MMO can be.. but again.. games are as limited as their players it seems.

    Wow lol im amazed you could possibly be so rude and make so many assumptions about me. For what its worth you are totally wrong but with that attitude you obviously arent going to listen. Glad you posted this so everyone can see what kind of person you are.

    I have no idea what you are talking about, I made no assumptions at all. After all this is what you said.. I even quoted it.

    @zombyturtle.5980 said:
    I couldnt disagree more if I tried. Old style gw2 grouped combat was basically 5 people, playing the same content alone, but along-side each other. You could not support or help your teammates at all outside of pressing F if they went down. Support was so useless it basically didnt exist, and if you did try and play a class with supportive based skills, you were laughed out of content. There literally was no 'support,healing or buffs'. Noone was working together, outside of contributing some damage towards reducing the bosses healthpool.

    So I am going to quote it again, and you can tell me how you meant this some other way then how I took it.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    And yes.. I hold people who need to play role-based games in contempt, because I view it as the lowest form of gaming, akin to being nothing more then some NPC in a single player game group make up.. We have Black Mage, White Mage, Red Warrior, Yellow Monk, and Green Ranger.. go mighty myopic task force.

    Yes it was a regression from this games original design, back to a stone age of game design to put in roles into this game.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • zombyturtle.5980zombyturtle.5980 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2018

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    I see the problem now, you never learned how to play as a team, so much so, when you were not given a static role or task to do, you, and yours, could not figure out how to work as a together with what you had.

    When I ended up with people like yourself for example, that only knew how to work together by hitting F is someone was downed

    But thanks.. I see through your own admittance that the original grouping system and team work design was in fact too complex for a player like yourself, and that you needed to regress back to some stone age system or roles to be able to do anything for your team mates.

    Last time I will bother replying. You make the assumption multiple times that I dont understand how supportive buffs or combo fields work. I do and did back in 2012 too.

    You assume the system was too complex, implying im too stupid to understand it. Thats incredibly rude, since you know nothing about me or how I play.

    I will reiterate 1 more time. I understand the combat system gw2 had at launch. My point is, using all these systems, like buffing stability on kholer and using light fields to cleans conditions were pointless and useless for even the average pug, considering the boss could just be dpsed down, before he even began casting the pull.

    This was true for 90% of group content. Any oher bosses that took longer could just be dodged. No reason at all to sacrifice dps for support when everyone except totally new players could dodge and complete dungeons without it. And this pointlessness of skills was a direct result of anets design policy on group content, which was a failure. I explained this above.

    If anet had decided to require certain classes in content. Like stability was NEEDED to beat kholer or the group instawiped, I would probably agree with you that there was team play at gw2's lauch. But that didnt happen.

  • Morte de Angelis.7986Morte de Angelis.7986 Member ✭✭
    edited November 9, 2018

    Kholer example was a bad one of teamplay. I did AC many times and not once was "Stand your Ground" required or even used. You can dodge the attack, meaning that you don't get pulled nor require the Condi cleanse and you don't even need the DPS to kill him before that to boot.

    My first run of AC was mostly one or two experienced people carrying 3 lowbie kitten through AC. They had never met before but knew how / what to dodge. They were 100% reliant on only themselves. They used no combo fields in the entire fight with Ghost Easter and only used teamwork when it was required (Ghost Traps). Being 100% reliant on only yourself in my mind isn't teamwork. You don't require anything from the team and I would suspect that given enough time those two players could of cleared the run solo. If I can clear something myself but a team just speed it up then it isn't teamwork. There is no I in Team.

    Whether forced to or not, a team is a team. Its not "your" team and just a temporary team but is it a team. You also don't need healers in raids. You mention a few times about picking up a bunch a friends playing whatever build they want and just running into a Dungeon and completing it. Well why don't you do that with raids? I don't really see what you are trying to do with this post other then complain about raids, which you are not forced to do, and say that the game no longer has teamwork. Druids aren't just healers, they also buff. A chrono isn't just a tank, they also buff. The off-Chrono isn't even a tank and is just a buffer. A Warrior is a DPS that also buffs. VG has been done with two people. The "Tank" Chrono and a Druid. The Druid could be replaced with pretty much any other healer. The "Tank" Chrono could be replaced with any other classes with tanky gear as they as they could survive. The other 8 people could die at the first hit and you could still complete the encouter.

    I really do not understand people that will go out of their way to complain about a game mode that on the whole does not affect them. Open World can be done with pretty much any build under the sun that the changes done to classes because of raids is negligible(?). The Dev team responsible for raids / fractals is completely different to the Dev team responsible for Open World and Living Story. So raids does not affect Dev time for those people who only play Open World. I personally dislike Open World where most of it comes down to just farming for things and a lot of people auto attack afking just so they can get carried by other people so they can get loot off other people's work but you don't find me making a thread every week about how pointless I find Open World. So I really don't get the people that do the same for raids.

    But I guess thats where my understanding ends. I enjoy raids because they offer a challenge that not other part of the game has I guess some people just don't like that and that's okay. Different people like different things. There's no need to be rude or condescending to either side however and I apologise in advance if I come across as rude or condescending in this post.

  • Grogba.6204Grogba.6204 Member ✭✭✭

    Why even dodge/stability against kholer when reflects broke the majority of dungeon fights.

    Lupicus. Feedback/Wall of Reflection.
    /Thread
    :wink:

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2018

    @Grogba.6204 said:
    Why even dodge/stability against kholer when reflects broke the majority of dungeon fights.

    Lupicus. Feedback/Wall of Reflection.
    /Thread
    :wink:

    LOL, wish I had thought of that.. we would stack speed buffs on a thief, they would kite him around and we would beat him up.. again.. while using speed buffs like save yourself.

    @zombyturtle.5980 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    I see the problem now, you never learned how to play as a team, so much so, when you were not given a static role or task to do, you, and yours, could not figure out how to work as a together with what you had.

    When I ended up with people like yourself for example, that only knew how to work together by hitting F is someone was downed

    But thanks.. I see through your own admittance that the original grouping system and team work design was in fact too complex for a player like yourself, and that you needed to regress back to some stone age system or roles to be able to do anything for your team mates.

    Last time I will bother replying. You make the assumption multiple times that I dont understand how supportive buffs or combo fields work. I do and did back in 2012 too.

    You assume the system was too complex, implying im too stupid to understand it. Thats incredibly rude, since you know nothing about me or how I play.

    I will reiterate 1 more time. I understand the combat system gw2 had at launch. My point is, using all these systems, like buffing stability on kholer and using light fields to cleans conditions were pointless and useless for even the average pug, considering the boss could just be dpsed down, before he even began casting the pull.

    This was true for 90% of group content. Any oher bosses that took longer could just be dodged. No reason at all to sacrifice dps for support when everyone except totally new players could dodge and complete dungeons without it. And this pointlessness of skills was a direct result of anets design policy on group content, which was a failure. I explained this above.

    If anet had decided to require certain classes in content. Like stability was NEEDED to beat kholer or the group instawiped, I would probably agree with you that there was team play at gw2's lauch. But that didnt happen.

    Needing Stability would be Lame. Having it as an Option is what makes it work. You could dodge, you could use stability, you could use fields/finishers, reflects, there was a LOT of options open and all of them worked.... the fact that people didn't didn't use them... meant they didn't know how to play.

    But I get it.. players could not figure out how to work as a team using the tools they were given, so they took the most simpleton path they could think of, which was trying to win by using crude mindless brute force via DPS, and with that said.. Raids haven't been an improvement on that method either, as VG is really just a timed DPS challenge.. the Irony.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Grogba.6204 said:
    Why even dodge/stability against kholer when reflects broke the majority of dungeon fights.

    Lupicus. Feedback/Wall of Reflection.
    /Thread
    :wink:

    It's even simpler: stack next to the pillar and kill him before he even uses his pull skill. It requires the players to know how to play and be competent of course, terrible groups will dodge, use stability, or reflects to beat Kholer and most dungeon bosses. They are open world loot pinatas anyway

  • Grogba.6204Grogba.6204 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2018

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    It's even simpler: stack next to the pillar and kill him before he even uses his pull skill. It requires the players to know how to play and be competent of course, terrible groups will dodge, use stability, or reflects to beat Kholer and most dungeon bosses. They are open world loot pinatas anyway

    One shotting Lupicus is faster though.

    Besides, which time are we talking? current? so just chrono, warr and soulbeasts and instagib him?

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Grogba.6204 said:
    Why even dodge/stability against kholer when reflects broke the majority of dungeon fights.

    Lupicus. Feedback/Wall of Reflection.
    /Thread
    :wink:

    It's even simpler: stack next to the pillar and kill him before he even uses his pull skill. It requires the players to know how to play and be competent of course, terrible groups will dodge, use stability, or reflects to beat Kholer and most dungeon bosses. They are open world loot pinatas anyway

    Or just kite him to the troll.. why bother playing at all..

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Grogba.6204 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    It's even simpler: stack next to the pillar and kill him before he even uses his pull skill. It requires the players to know how to play and be competent of course, terrible groups will dodge, use stability, or reflects to beat Kholer and most dungeon bosses. They are open world loot pinatas anyway

    One shotting Lupicus is faster though.

    Besides, which time are we talking? current? so just chrono, warr and soulbeasts and instagib him?

    It was more about Kholer, I don't think you can kill Lupi before he can do any of his big attacks

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2018

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Grogba.6204 said:
    Why even dodge/stability against kholer when reflects broke the majority of dungeon fights.

    Lupicus. Feedback/Wall of Reflection.
    /Thread
    :wink:

    It's even simpler: stack next to the pillar and kill him before he even uses his pull skill. It requires the players to know how to play and be competent of course, terrible groups will dodge, use stability, or reflects to beat Kholer and most dungeon bosses. They are open world loot pinatas anyway

    Actually this a great example of Myopic Simple minded play, where when given a ton of tools to work with, they instead chose to just go mindless DPS, which just exonerates @zombyturtle.5980 point about players not grouping or working together at all, but instead just being solo DPS players running in the same path.

    Pitiful that this is perceived as some meta style of group play, when it is the apex example of an inability to work together at all, and a prime display at how players can praise the most rudimentary of skill sets, where as opposed to wanting to use all the tools open to them and expand their interaction, they opt to just be crude hammers.. and worship this as meta.

    Anyway.. I will never understand the desire for Role's in a game.. but as I said, the a game can only progress as far as it's players, so I see why they ended up putting them in. I still think it is sad and a regression to how great this game could have been, like return to the stone age of gaming.. but then again.. this post shows that is all the players really understood.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Grogba.6204Grogba.6204 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2018

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    So, why someone would want to use more complicated, harder to execute tactics with lower chances of success over a simple, easy to pull off and highly succesful one?

    Boss design in a nutshell. Unless failing the mechanic kills your party (Arkk Bombs and Solar Blossoms or many breakbars in Raids) it's more of a hassle to execute the mechanic "properly" than to play around it i.E. VG greens, Gorse updrafts, Cairn greens, dedicated kiters for Dhuum and Deimos, etc.

  • I can't hate what I do not do.

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭

    I miss my GW monk. It's fun to heal and do something else then getting the K's on Damage.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Grogba.6204 said:
    Why even dodge/stability against kholer when reflects broke the majority of dungeon fights.

    Lupicus. Feedback/Wall of Reflection.
    /Thread
    :wink:

    It's even simpler: stack next to the pillar and kill him before he even uses his pull skill. It requires the players to know how to play and be competent of course, terrible groups will dodge, use stability, or reflects to beat Kholer and most dungeon bosses. They are open world loot pinatas anyway

    Actually this a great example of Myopic Simple minded play, where when given a ton of tools to work with, they instead chose to just go mindless DPS, which just exonerates @zombyturtle.5980 point about players not grouping or working together at all, but instead just being solo DPS players running in the same path.

    No, it is a great example of simple solutions working best. Your solution is more complicated than the situation warrants, and gives several points of failure that can easily wipe a group. Pillar tactics is simple, and really hard to fail. So, why someone would want to use more complicated, harder to execute tactics with lower chances of success over a simple, easy to pull off and highly succesful one?

    No, what is really happening, is people are given a rudimentary method that works, and then as opposed to looking for other solutions and expanding their of skills, branching off and challenging themselves, they just parrot what their betters have told them to do.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2018

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    No, what is really happening, is people are given a rudimentary method that works, and then as opposed to looking for other solutions and expanding their of skills, branching off and challenging themselves, they just parrot what their betters have told them to do.

    Yes. Because that "rudimentary" method works better than those other solutions. It doesn't matter if they "parrot" what they've been told by their "betters" or not - the end result is still exactly the same. The tactics they use is the best one. There's no gain whatsoever in picking those other options over it.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    No, what is really happening, is people are given a rudimentary method that works, and then as opposed to looking for other solutions and expanding their of skills, branching off and challenging themselves, they just parrot what their betters have told them to do.

    Yes. Because that "rudimentary" method works better than those other solutions. It doesn't matter if they "parrot" what they've been told by their "betters" or not - the end result is still exactly the same. The tactics they use is the best one. There's no gain whatsoever in picking those other options over it.

    No.. it did not work BETTER, it was just Crudely Effective, and had a low skill cap to reproduce, as such it was the easiest tactic, not the best one. Which is ironic that people that would praise the use of the most crude simpleton methods would be the ones asking for more "challenge" in their game, don't you think?

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    No, what is really happening, is people are given a rudimentary method that works, and then as opposed to looking for other solutions and expanding their of skills, branching off and challenging themselves, they just parrot what their betters have told them to do.

    Yes. Because that "rudimentary" method works better than those other solutions. It doesn't matter if they "parrot" what they've been told by their "betters" or not - the end result is still exactly the same. The tactics they use is the best one. There's no gain whatsoever in picking those other options over it.

    No.. it did not work BETTER, it was just Crudely Effective, and had a low skill cap to reproduce, as such it was the easiest tactic, not the best one. Which is ironic that people that would praise the use of the most crude simpleton methods would be the ones asking for more "challenge" in their game, don't you think?

    Well, even if you don't dps bosses like Kholer down in seconds the better player in the group would either have dodged his spin attack and kill him afterwards while 4 players are down or having an own utility slot with stuff like "Endure pain" on war and kill Kholer after usage while - here we go again - the other 4 are in downstate. That's the best option in pugs. Better than relying on the others, rez them and possibly go down as well. If having a reflect would be the best option it would be mandatory for the group otherwise it isn't the best option.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I hate how necessary support chrono is because I want to play power chrono DPS or mirage in peace but have to instead joinLFG's as a different class to not be expected to go support chrono so I can swap back to mesmer DPS when the group fills and receive complaints about playing mesmer DPS instead of DH/weaver/daredevil.

    Chrono/druid unique utility is simply too oppressive to comp diversity.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2018

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    No, what is really happening, is people are given a rudimentary method that works, and then as opposed to looking for other solutions and expanding their of skills, branching off and challenging themselves, they just parrot what their betters have told them to do.

    Yes. Because that "rudimentary" method works better than those other solutions. It doesn't matter if they "parrot" what they've been told by their "betters" or not - the end result is still exactly the same. The tactics they use is the best one. There's no gain whatsoever in picking those other options over it.

    No.. it did not work BETTER, it was just Crudely Effective, and had a low skill cap to reproduce, as such it was the easiest tactic, not the best one. Which is ironic that people that would praise the use of the most crude simpleton methods would be the ones asking for more "challenge" in their game, don't you think?

    None of the options you mentioned worked any better, and all of them had, as you yourself said, higher skill cap. That's why it was (and still is) the best tactics. Why should you use a more complicated tactics with a higher failure rate if it offers you no advantage over an easier one? That's a question you haven't answered so far.

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    I hate how necessary support chrono is because I want to play power chrono DPS or mirage in peace but have to instead joinLFG's as a different class to not be expected to go support chrono so I can swap back to mesmer DPS when the group fills and receive complaints about playing mesmer DPS instead of DH/weaver/daredevil.

    Chrono/druid unique utility is simply too oppressive to comp diversity.

    That has nothing to do with chrono superiority and a lot with power mesmer being subpar compared to other dps options (Mirage i see noone complaining about if it's one of the bosses it's good on. Only when you try to use it where it't not that good that people might ask for switch - but then, the same is with other dps-es).

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Deepcuts.9740Deepcuts.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    I am starting to see the hate for relying on healers.
    Being a Druid main, when I am on my Guardian and have to rely on others for boons and healing....and seeing lots of Druids giving very few boons with very low duration and crappy heals most of the time, I really do start seeing the hate some people have.
    Then, once in a blue moon, I get a very good Druid and I forget about it.

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