Kralkatorrik (Ep 4 spoilers)

I was just wondering what do you guys think would happen if Kralkatorrik permanently stayed in the Mists m, how screwed up would the All get for Tyria. I get that the theory is reality itself will shatter. Kralkatorrik is holding a considerable amount of magic and as the current dialogue states, getting more of it from the Mists.

@Tyson.5160 said:I was just wondering what do you guys think would happen if Kralkatorrik permanently stayed in the Mists m, how screwed up would the All get for Tyria. I get that the theory is reality itself will shatter. Kralkatorrik is holding a considerable amount of magic and as the current dialogue states, getting more of it from the Mists.

Well, the Mists is incredibly vast. It is essentially the uni-/multiverse. So I assume if Kralk managed to collapse Tyria and stay in the Mists indefinitely, there would eventually be a point in which he just explodes from all the Magic.

We've effectively taken a closed-circle and turned it into a spiral. If they never run out of magic, will the dragons still have need to enter sleep? This event will prove to be a huge game-changer or shark-jumping. Not sure which, yet.

I’m more thinking of the consequences of Kralkatorrik in the Mists in terms the magical balance of the All in Tyria. Technically he has just removed a large portion of magic with him.

Yes, but his absence may allow new magic to seep in that much faster. We're now at 3 out of 6 magic containment dragons, that are actually in Tyria. So Eir is right in a way, we need to fix this. And quickly, before Kralky becomes unfixable. Let's hope we'll manage without doing even greater damage in the long run.

The first thing to understand is that there are three types of existence in Guild Wars 2 - Worlds, the universe, and the Mists.

All of these things are quite complex and intertwined, for example we know there is an infinite number of variations on Tyria ("worlds") which do battle in the Mist War, and we've seen alternate timelines, realities, etc., but we also know that Tyria exists in physical space/the universe and has stars, and there is clearly an entire galaxy similar to the Milky Way visible from the Domain of Istan Astralarium, so it stands to reason that there are other planets and solar systems as well. And then the Mists are a proto-reality that connects all of it somehow, and seems to basically be a physical(?) manifestation of subspace that even bridges multiple universes together.

Because of this is it is presumed that the Mists are the origin of The All, not Tyria, as all things seem to begin and end there. Assumptions about it being specific to Tyria are likely outdated thinking and we have learned alot in the last few years.

It is known that the Human Gods, and probably Humans as well, had a place The All, and they were from another world. As the Asura say, "everything has a place in the Eternal Alchemy", which is something that could not be true if The All was exclusive to Tyria, as many of its own inhabitants aren't even native. Wind Riders for example, do not come from Tyria yet clearly have a part to play in its ecosystem.

What is happening right now is that we've basically unleashed an invasive species into an environment in which it has no natural predators, and of course there will be ramifications of such, but The All probably existed long before Tyria, and probably long after it.

Balthazar, an ancient god with knowledge far beyond ours, said it clearly: "Your home is Trivial."

I’m also wondering if Kralkatorrik could have branded the awakened before absorbing Zhaitan’s death sphere or if just another ability of the death magic, since the awakened are technically dead. Would be interesting to see if Kralkatorrik makes more use of the mind sphere he consumed from Mordremoth.

@Tyson.5160 said:I’m also wondering if Kralkatorrik could have branded the awakened before absorbing Zhaitan’s death sphere or if just another ability of the death magic, since the awakened are technically dead. Would be interesting to see if Kralkatorrik makes more use of the mind sphere he consumed from Mordremoth.

it's already mentioned that the branded achieved some more advanced Kind of hivemind compared to pre mordremoths death(somewhere during an Event/ Story while raiding the dice with the olmakhan)

@Tyson.5160 said:I’m also wondering if Kralkatorrik could have branded the awakened before absorbing Zhaitan’s death sphere or if just another ability of the death magic, since the awakened are technically dead. Would be interesting to see if Kralkatorrik makes more use of the mind sphere he consumed from Mordremoth.

I would personally think that he could, since Joko had already reanimated them and he wouldn't have had to do that.

Honestly I believe we will follow him into the mists and kill him there, allowing Aurene to soak up his magic without it causing too much trouble when being released on Tyria.

Then, through the insane amount of magic released another power will either awaken or be lured in, giving us a villain for season 5, with the release of another expansion at the end of it.

@norbes.3620 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:I’m also wondering if Kralkatorrik could have branded the awakened before absorbing Zhaitan’s death sphere or if just another ability of the death magic, since the awakened are technically dead. Would be interesting to see if Kralkatorrik makes more use of the mind sphere he consumed from Mordremoth.

Yeah, no I realized that, hence why I said more use of the mind sphere. We see Kralk using Death Magic a lot in Season 4.

Seems that when Kralk raises a minion from the dead they become a death branded minion. Can kinda see this with the Shatterer, death branded centaur and Hierarch Chikere (who got killed, again). We don’t seem to see the regular awakened that are branded as death branded.

@Blocki.4931 said:Honestly I believe we will follow him into the mists and kill him there, allowing Aurene to soak up his magic without it causing too much trouble when being released on Tyria.

Then, through the insane amount of magic released another power will either awaken or be lured in, giving us a villain for season 5, with the release of another expansion at the end of it.

i expect something similar but the realeas of magic will draw in the deep sea dragon for the next expansion, and s5 after it. and i just hope its themed after chtulhu.

I personally feel like Season 5 will likely have us traveling back in old areas of Orr and Heart of the Maguuma to find ways to replace Zhaitan and Mordremoth and bring some conclusion to the stories involved in that.

I always figured the Pale Tree and possibly the last king of Orr would replace Mordremoth and Zhaitan. One of the reasons I thought this was how Sadizi in the Way Forward described the replacements as entities rather then dragons.

@Tyson.5160 said:I always figured the Pale Tree and possibly the last king of Orr would replace Mordremoth and Zhaitan. One of the reasons I thought this was how Sadizi in the Way Forward described the replacements as entities rather then dragons.

But ghosts go mad when exposed to a lot of magical energy. The Pale Tree will likely be fine, but Reza would suffer the same fate as the bounties.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:I always figured the Pale Tree and possibly the last king of Orr would replace Mordremoth and Zhaitan. One of the reasons I thought this was how Sadizi in the Way Forward described the replacements as entities rather then dragons.

Leaves a bit of a pickle on who could replace Zhaitan.

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:I always figured the Pale Tree and possibly the last king of Orr would replace Mordremoth and Zhaitan. One of the reasons I thought this was how Sadizi in the Way Forward described the replacements as entities rather then dragons.

Things didn't seriously go haywire with Ley-Line anomalies and mistwalking elder dragons until Mordremoth was defeated. LW1/LW2 didn't show too many ill-effects, it might be possible to get away with 5 elder dragons instead of 6. The problem is feeding a replacement magic already absorbed by other elder dragons. If Aurene defeats Kralkatorrik, she could absorb it all then and there. Zhaitan and Mordremoth's magic is long since dispersed.

A solution to that is the chak, since it seems they can filter dragon magic.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:I always figured the Pale Tree and possibly the last king of Orr would replace Mordremoth and Zhaitan. One of the reasons I thought this was how Sadizi in the Way Forward described the replacements as entities rather then dragons.

There are some spirits who appear to be no madder than before (King Jahnus comes to mind) and generally the bounties in POF depict various possible effects of the magical energy on the creature´s mind, but I have to agree: Would you really risk it? There is however the big question where the elder dragon came from at the very beginning. Looking at the Gods, I would not be surprised if history repeated itself and the dragons from today once started out the same way Aurene is featured now: As a replacement for a former Dragon. This leaves the already answered question: Why are they all so evil? Well, with great power comes even greater madness. While it has never come up in the story until now, I have my doubt that Aurene would be any different. Maybe she will last for a few thousand years, but I am sure she will slowly lose the battle with madness the same way all the other Elder Dragons did. This is only a theory, but it would explain why the numbers of Elder Dragons appears to be a constant (Depending on how you interpret The All of course), despite them being so “easy” to kill. Don’t get me wrong, they are objectively immensely powerful, but just judging from Zhaitan and Mordremoth, I have my doubts that they are mighty enough to survive long enough to be as old as Tyria.

@Hesacon.8735 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:I always figured the Pale Tree and possibly the last king of Orr would replace Mordremoth and Zhaitan. One of the reasons I thought this was how Sadizi in the Way Forward described the replacements as entities rather then dragons.

It's technically possible to "get away" with only 4 Elder Dragons. Per S3 and POF, it's when a third Elder Dragon dies that the world ends. One shows minimal effects, two has overflowing Ley lines, three ends the world.

@"ThatOddOne.4387" said:A solution to that is the chak, since it seems they can filter dragon magic.If the problem was just magic quantities, you'd be right. But if that was the problem, then there would be no problem in letting Balthazar absorb magic from the Elder Dragons and killing them. The problem lies with The All and its balance. We need "Elder Dragons", not just "magic regulators". A Bloodstone could hold magic, but it won't balance The All.

@"Nikolai.3648" said:There are some spirits who appear to be no madder than before (King Jahnus comes to mind) and generally the bounties in POF depict various possible effects of the magical energy on the creature´s mind, but I have to agree: Would you really risk it?

"Insane spirits are still insane when exposed to magic that makes sane spirits insane" is not exactly a compelling argument for "some ghosts can absorb magic safely" either way.

This leaves the already answered question: Why are they all so evil? Well, with great power comes even greater madness. While it has never come up in the story until now, I have my doubt that Aurene would be any different. Maybe she will last for a few thousand years, but I am sure she will slowly lose the battle with madness the same way all the other Elder Dragons did. This is only a theory, but it would explain why the numbers of Elder Dragons appears to be a constant (Depending on how you interpret The All of course), despite them being so “easy” to kill. Don’t get me wrong, they are objectively immensely powerful, but just judging from Zhaitan and Mordremoth, I have my doubts that they are mighty enough to survive long enough to be as old as Tyria.

Keep in mind that with Zhaitan, while he was asleep, the Six Gods had drained him of power (see Arah Seer path), this would have weakened him even before we exploited his weakness and made him more vulnerable to killing. With Mordremoth... honestly, we just got lucky with the Pale Tree having a connection to the Dream just like Mordremoth, thus giving us - through her offspring - access to his weakness. If we had been stuck with Malyck and his tree (who have no connection to the Dream) or no sylvari/Pale Trees, then we would have been incapable of killing Mordremoth. And the same goes towards Kralkatorrik, his weakness is his own crystalline corruption, so without Glint being purified, there would be no means to exploit his weakness.

This seems to be the first cycle where dragon minions got purified and were able to rebel against their master. Of course with absolutely no knowledge on the dragonrises before the previous, it's impossible to know for certain, but the last dragonrise certainly didn't seem to have someone like Glint or the Pale Tree.

Without being able to exploit their weaknesses, Mordremoth seems pretty much immortal due to his ability to body-hop. The others might have been killable, but would need a lot more effort (especially Kralkatorrik) - of course, this depends on whether the "unique weakness" is "weakens them enough to make them easy to kill" or "weakens them so that they can actually be killable". If it's the later, then Mordremoth would be truly immortal, while Kralkatorrik, Jormag, and Primordus would be nearly so.

Come to think of it, maybe the Sanguinary Blade was an attempt to make a weapon to fell Primordus? Would make sense, given the dwarves cared about Primordus more, it always seemed off they would make a weapon out of Jormag's corruption, when Jormag was not in Central Tyria when he went to sleep (was near the arctic sea per kodan lore). I do question just how much Jormag's and Primordus' "unique weakness" is truly each other and not simply "magical fire" / "magical ice" (or something completely different, given the hints that Mordremoth's and Zhaitan's magics are counteractive).

I more meant the method chak use would be a solution to filter out different dragon spheres of magic (Zhaitan's, Mordremoth's etc) from the current Elder Dragons so that magic can then be given to whatever or whoever replaces those two respectively. If it can be replicated.

About Zaithan: Kralk and maybe aurene can awaken him from dead.So there are a possibility an Awaken Branded Zaithan could be under the control of Kralk or aurene.

If aurene can take under her control zaithan could be replace by himself.

so what if we kill kralkatorrik and then Bubbles takes the death magic and makes now chtulhu like tentacle monstrocities, Bubbled Zhaitan, Bubbled Mordremoth and Bubbled Kralkatorrik.