saerni.2584 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Currently this:Immobilize/KnockdownVulnerability x15PoisonProposed:immobilize/knockdown Vulnerability x10PoisonReveal on target (5 seconds) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Using Revealed for balance should be automatically rejected. Explore other solution. In fact, start with the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted September 26, 2018 Author Share Posted September 26, 2018 I’m not saying using reveal for balance is good.I’m saying if Anet is using it to balance then thief or at least DE should be able to use it.I’m suggesting a limited reveal. One skill is enough. Binding Shadows makes sense thematically as a reveal. I wouldn’t want anything more than that. It’s just silly when most of the professions can reveal when even a stealth master like DE can’t do anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 If it was given a visual/audio tell when the caster is in stealth, perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 First, all of the Thief's skill should be beneficial to the Thief. This means that any skill that is self-depreciating should be reworked, which includes all skills that applies Revealed and Exhaustion.Second, tweak only professions that is actually under-performing against a Thief. Slapping a Revealed or Exhaustion on the Thief's skill or trait is just plain laziness.Third, why is it necessary for Binding Shadow to be nerfed and for what game mode? The fact that this is not specified implies that this is to be done across the board, which I strongly disagree.Lastly, Revealed is a very bad mechanic that shut out the whole Shadow Art trait line that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. It's been, what, 6 years that we have to deal with Revealed? This needs to be seriously addressed and Revealed to be removed from the game forever. Instead, replace Revealed with Detected or Spotted the simply removes invisibility and not stealth status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 @Turk.5460 said:If it was given a visual/audio tell when the caster is in stealth, perhaps.Binding deals damage, so if used in stealth, it will Revealed the Thief. With the OP's suggestion, it will make the Revealed 8s long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted September 26, 2018 Author Share Posted September 26, 2018 Uh, no.I want it to reveal the target. Not the caster.Edit: Updated OP to clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@Turk.5460 said:If it was given a visual/audio tell when the caster is in stealth, perhaps.Binding deals damage, so if used in stealth, it will Revealed the Thief. With the OP's suggestion, it will make the Revealed 8s long.The damage is only dealt on the delayed portion of the attack. The activation is what you would need to dodge to avoid the knockdown/immob/damage/vuln/boonrip. When cast from stealth, there is no visual or audio tell to your target, so this is the setup: Stealth, Binding Shadow, Mark - and voila, the knockdown/immob is applied at the same time as the mark, allowing for followup burst. Great tactic and all but needs more counterplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted September 26, 2018 Author Share Posted September 26, 2018 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hook_StrikeJust leaving that for comparison. The general counter to knockdown is a stunbreak. As far as unavoidable. Backstab and plenty of other attacks have no tell because stealth intentionally is designed to hide animations. I don’t think a utility like BS should be special in this regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 @saerni.2584 said:Uh, no.I want it to reveal the target. Not the caster.Edit: Updated OP to clarify.I still do not agree the further use of Revealed for balance, but thanks for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 @Turk.5460 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@Turk.5460 said:If it was given a visual/audio tell when the caster is in stealth, perhaps.Binding deals damage, so if used in stealth, it will Revealed the Thief. With the OP's suggestion, it will make the Revealed 8s long.The damage is only dealt on the delayed portion of the attack. The activation is what you would need to dodge to avoid the knockdown/immob/damage/vuln/boonrip. When cast from stealth, there is no visual or audio tell to your target, so this is the setup: Stealth, Binding Shadow, Mark - and voila, the knockdown/immob is applied at the same time as the mark, allowing for followup burst. Great tactic and all but needs more counterplay.One shot every 30 seconds does not necessitate an update. It is balanced against most stun break cooldown, resistance, invul, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 @"saerni.2584" said:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hook_StrikeJust leaving that for comparison. The general counter to knockdown is a stunbreak. As far as unavoidable. Backstab and plenty of other attacks have no tell because stealth intentionally is designed to hide animations. I don’t think a utility like BS should be special in this regard. Hook strike is only 2 seconds, doesn't apply 10stacks of vulnerability, immob, or remove boons like aegis or protection. It requires melee range, and it is already very hard for a staff DrD to get or maintain stealth. I appreciate your comparison but it's not as similar as you think. The Knockdown of hook strike also immediately lets you know a Thief is on top of you visually, Binding Shadow knockdown already has TRB spam under quickness incoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 @Turk.5460 said:@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:@Turk.5460 said:If it was given a visual/audio tell when the caster is in stealth, perhaps.Binding deals damage, so if used in stealth, it will Revealed the Thief. With the OP's suggestion, it will make the Revealed 8s long.The damage is only dealt on the delayed portion of the attack. The activation is what you would need to dodge to avoid the knockdown/immob/damage/vuln/boonrip. When cast from stealth, there is no visual or audio tell to your target, so this is the setup: Stealth, Binding Shadow, Mark - and voila, the knockdown/immob is applied at the same time as the mark, allowing for followup burst. Great tactic and all but needs more counterplay.I used to love Cursed Bullet for the similar sequence. I've been using Scorpion Wire for awhile in place of Binding Shadow and I really miss that cooperative mechanic often but it does feel insanely good as an opener rather than a utility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted September 27, 2018 Author Share Posted September 27, 2018 @Turk.5460 said:@"saerni.2584" said:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hook_StrikeJust leaving that for comparison. The general counter to knockdown is a stunbreak. As far as unavoidable. Backstab and plenty of other attacks have no tell because stealth intentionally is designed to hide animations. I don’t think a utility like BS should be special in this regard. Hook strike is only 2 seconds, doesn't apply 10stacks of vulnerability, immob, or remove boons like aegis or protection. It requires melee range, and it is already very hard for a staff DrD to get or maintain stealth. I appreciate your comparison but it's not as similar as you think. The Knockdown of hook strike also immediately lets you know a Thief is on top of you visually, Binding Shadow knockdown already has TRB spam under quickness incoming. Of course it is weaker but it also comes with the advantage of being every stealth attack on the weapon. In general, it’s also about how the lack of a tell in stealth isn’t unusual and the counterplay is comparable to other stuns or Immobilize.I agree the vulnerability might be overtuned with the reveal. That’s why I suggested decreasing it as a trade off. I’m open to alternative adjustments that could make the addition of reveal not op.Not that I think just adding it would be automatically op, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted September 28, 2018 Author Share Posted September 28, 2018 Or:Rending Shade:Stealth Attacks apply reveal to targets (2 seconds)Boon ripNo longer reduces damage from boonless foes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 @saerni.2584 said:Or:Rending Shade:Stealth Attacks apply reveal to targets (2 seconds)Boon ripNo longer reduces damage from boonless foesI'd drink to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyForgotten.4276 Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 Like this suggestion for BS. It would be a nice reward for getting the proc off on an opposing DE, not to mention giving us a good way to force an opening in a permastealth fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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