Holosmith - Static Elixirs is Broken. This is not fun at all. OP

So many classes are broken here but Holosmith - Static Elixirs among other builds is way over the top atm. You can Condi or power vs Holosmith. Don't matter. Holosmith just heals-sustain & passives immunities with out even pressing a button. Need's only to Boom boom static & Blast you in 2 shots. Rinse & repeat. Over the top. Not even gonna ask for a nerf cuz everything is broken & needs a look at. But this season Holosmith takes the OP BRoken prize.

Photon forge needs a +5s cool down. And that's not to mention all of the other smaller slightly broken mechanics on Holo that gives it unnecessary advantages. But like Mirage, I assume absolutely nothing will be done about the issue.

Holos have been nerfed to kitten. Quit trying to face tank them, some classes are just better at dueling. Moving to elixirs has hurt holo damage as static discharge is unpredictable and doesn’t hit half the time when tossing elixirs.

@Tehologist.5841 said:Holos have been nerfed to kitten. Quit trying to face tank them, some classes are just better at dueling. Moving to elixirs has hurt holo damage as static discharge is unpredictable and doesn’t hit half the time when tossing elixirs.

Yep, they got nerfed so much to kitten that they are on Top Meta chart. That's how nerfed they got. Good point you bring up..good job.

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@"Tehologist.5841" said:Holos have been nerfed to kitten. Quit trying to face tank them, some classes are just better at dueling. Moving to elixirs has hurt holo damage as static discharge is unpredictable and doesn’t hit half the time when tossing elixirs.

Look at patch notes affecting holosmith since PoF launched -- they have been nerfed almost every balance patch.

Somehow they're now everyone's favorite class to complain about though.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/August_2018 - Cooldown increases overall, some damage reductionhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/July_2018 - Elixir U changed functionality, rest was focused on condi engihttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/June_2018 - Spectrum Shield functionality made multiplicative instead of additive (nerf)https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/May_2018 - No significant changes to Holo, improvements to underwater and medkithttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/March_2018 - Reduction to minesweeper damage, passive trait cooldowns greatly increased, major reductions to forge attack damage, plus stability nerf for corona burst, spectrum shield cooldown and duration increased -- If there's any balance patch you should look at, this one is big.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/February_2018 - Changes to core that weakened alchemy as a defensive trait line, but made inventions better at removing condihttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/December_2017 - Nothing effecting holo in a meaningful wayhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/November_2017 - Addition of combo finishers to forge skills (which weren't in the game properly like they should have been from the get go)

Those are all the significant changes to holosmith over the last year. The only straight buff has been the addition of combo finishers to skills that should have had them to begin with. Everything else was either a mixed bag or a nerf.

Holo has not been nerfed to kitten. It had a few cds increased and it is still in the meta.

Turrets got nerfed to kitten.

Holo did not.

If you're struggling to fight holos (which is understandable since they are engi on easy mode) I suggest playing one for a bit. Learn the big tells.

Seismic hammer and corona burst are the 2 maim ones to dodge and are well telegraphed.

Only problem is if one +1s you from behind, or from stealth then it's a one way ticket to cc city.

@Peutrifectus.4830 said:Holo has not been nerfed to kitten. It had a few cds increased and it is still in the meta.

Turrets got nerfed to kitten.

Holo did not.

If you're struggling to fight holos (which is understandable since they are engi on easy mode) I suggest playing one for a bit. Learn the big tells.

Seismic hammer and corona burst are the 2 maim ones to dodge and are well telegraphed.

Only problem is if one +1s you from behind, or from stealth then it's a one way ticket to cc city.

Naaa, i'm sorry. But as i mentioned above. To much sustain, healing with such a low CD. & Too much CC with too much damage on there attacks. It's really a wash rinse & repeat thing with no counter play in the end. No counter no matter how much you kite or dodge there attacks. As i said, other classes has there problems but this one is way over the top.

The nerfs to Holo were tiny compared to the elixir buff patch. Now the Holo has a bit too much of everything, sort of like Mirage. That's what people are complaining about. I could go into much detail as to every little thing that puts it over the top, but what's mostly important to point out is its quickness uptime. That quickness literally doubles it's damage output and also halves the amount of time it takes for it to run through healing rotations.

Imo things that can cast water fields, that have many leap & blast finishers, should NOT be receiving self sustained high quickness uptime buffing. It's game breaking actually because it allows something designed for DPS to be able to heal as much or more than something designed for bunking or support, which is messed up and in no way balanced for competitive play.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:The nerfs to Holo were tiny compared to the elixir buff patch. Now the Holo has a bit too much of everything, sort of like Mirage. That's what people are complaining about. I could go into much detail as to every little thing that puts it over the top, but what's mostly important to point out is its quickness uptime. That quickness literally doubles it's damage output and also halves the amount of time it takes for it to run through healing rotations.

Imo things that can cast water fields, that have many leap & blast finishers, should NOT be receiving self sustained high quickness uptime buffing. It's game breaking actually because it allows something designed for DPS to be able to heal as much or more than something designed for bunking or support, which is messed up and in no way balanced for competitive play.

If i was you i would go into details before someone says your all wrong & stuff & tries to debunk you.

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Peutrifectus.4830 said:Holo has not been nerfed to kitten. It had a few cds increased and it is still in the meta.

Turrets got nerfed to kitten.

Holo did not.

If you're struggling to fight holos (which is understandable since they are engi on easy mode) I suggest playing one for a bit. Learn the big tells.

Seismic hammer and corona burst are the 2 maim ones to dodge and are well telegraphed.

Only problem is if one +1s you from behind, or from stealth then it's a one way ticket to cc city.

Oh I agree mate, i was expecting holo 3 & 5 to get bigger cooldowns or have the dmg toned down across the board. I main engi and im not in denial that its still a.bit too much atm. Like I.said, its endi on easy mode.... but you can at least save yourself a bit of pain by dodging the big ones.

Intact there's several over tuned classes that have turned PvP into a pain disco of flashing lights, high burst and a dance floor that won't let you off it.

You can l2p against the player in front of you only to be deleted by the one behind.

I can empathise with the frustration that's clear on the forum atm. Every other thread to nerf this and nerf that...

Life was simpler before HoT, sigh.

I do game balance and playtest for table top wargames and I'm only guessing that its probably more complex for this But still....

I started playing GW2 because of PvP. Would I have been so addicted to it if I had started playing in the current climate?... maybe, maybe not.

Part of me wished that they would do a top down review of every class and trait line to base line the lot.

:/ feeling disenfranchised

Meta holo has something like 2x leap and 3 blast finishers? Kinda crazy sustain when you can blast water field 3 times and even manage to get a leap of it too.

When a mesmer main complains that another class is OP......

how much they got nerfed is irrelevant. theyre still way over the top.

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:The nerfs to Holo were tiny compared to the elixir buff patch. Now the Holo has a bit too much of everything, sort of like Mirage. That's what people are complaining about. I could go into much detail as to every little thing that puts it over the top, but what's mostly important to point out is its quickness uptime. That quickness literally doubles it's damage output and also halves the amount of time it takes for it to run through healing rotations.

Imo things that can cast water fields, that have many leap & blast finishers, should NOT be receiving self sustained high quickness uptime buffing. It's game breaking actually because it allows something designed for DPS to be able to heal as much or more than something designed for bunking or support, which is messed up and in no way balanced for competitive play.

I'll help.

• Holo has too many must-dodge skills: corona burst (twice) if you want to deny them stability and avoid the aoe damage. Holo Shockwave - huge very long range aoe cc. It's too fast and goes too far to avoid with anything but a block or dodge. Prime Light beam - if you don't dodge this, you lose. It's very slow, yes, but the problem is, you very likely already wasted your dodges on corona burst and holo shockwave. Unblockable really hurts. You need to either eat one of the previous two skills (preferably corona burst) or block them instead of dodge so you can have dodge up for PLB.
• That's also not counting the other Photon Forge skills which hit like a truck. The autoattack, the leap, and blitz (4), which all do significant damage.
• That's just from Photon Forge, which holo gets for free on top of base engineer. That's not even taking account any of the other engi skills they'll be bringing alongside it. (granted, most holos just fill their bar with defensive skills because it's more effective to just defend and stall until PF is up again)
• Holo also gets a free heal with photon forge - I think it's like ~6.5k per heat cycle.

I would suggest a few things:

1. make holo more vulnerable in forge - maybe cut the sustain a bit, maybe make overheat more likely or mandatory
2. halve the range on holo shockwave - moving out of its range ought to be viable counterplay and it currently just isn't
3. move the stability on corona burst to 2 stacks on the first pulse and nothing on the second. You shouldn't have to dodge/block twice to deny the holo stab.
4. nerf some of the holo defensive utilities

Overall, Holo is supposed to be a glass cannon, but it doesn't play like one right now.

Can't we just riptide it?

@"coro.3176" said:

2. halve the range on holo shockwave - moving out of its range ought to be viable counterplay and it currently just isn't

You can move / jump out of it if the Holo didn't start using it at close range. If he did, try to place yourself right on top of him, then the skill doesn't hit you.

@Silinsar.6298 said:

@"coro.3176" said:

2. halve the range on holo shockwave - moving out of its range ought to be viable counterplay and it currently just isn't

This hasn't been my experience. If you're anywhere within ~400 range, you're going to get hit. If you're at the far edge, like 500+ range from the holo, sure you can probably get out in time. Does moving in work? I haven't noticed a safe zone directly on top. It sure feels like I always hit people close to me even if I'm right on top of them.

@coro.3176 said:

@Silinsar.6298 said:

@coro.3176 said:

2. halve the range on holo shockwave - moving out of its range ought to be viable counterplay and it currently just isn't

It's pretty narrow, but yes. Tested again today. It's doable since Holo's can't move while casting it. I think increasing the "safe" radius would be a nice nerf, allowing for more counterplay and making it more difficult for holos to set up the CC.

My fights vs. Holo go pretty much like this:

Dodge, Dodge, get bounced around the map for the rest of the fight, die.

The only thing truly OP about Holosmith is the Elixer U buff was overkill and could use a revert.

@"coro.3176" said:I would suggest a few things:

1. make holo more vulnerable in forge - maybe cut the sustain a bit, maybe make overheat more likely or mandatory
2. halve the range on holo shockwave - moving out of its range ought to be viable counterplay and it currently just isn't
3. move the stability on corona burst to 2 stacks on the first pulse and nothing on the second. You shouldn't have to dodge/block twice to deny the holo stab.
4. nerf some of the holo defensive utilities

Overall, Holo is supposed to be a glass cannon, but it doesn't play like one right now.

1. There is no sustain actually built into forge. The only "sustain" that comes from it is the stability from corona burst, which is traited (and has conditions attached to it now). All other "sustain" skills in forge are actually utilities or heal skills.
2. I do agree that the range on the shockwave is large. Should be 400 instead of 600.
3. That... wouldn't actually do much to affect gameplay, other than encouraging burstier builds even further.
4. They have been nerfed, repeatedly, especially things like the additive -> multiplicative change to spectrum shield, and significant cooldown increases all around.

If you want to nerf holo, nerfs should be aimed directly at holo itself.

@Rufo.3716 said:My fights vs. Holo go pretty much like this:

Dodge, Dodge, get bounced around the map for the rest of the fight, die.

My fights against other holos goes:

• Bait out their burst skills, do some light damage.
• Proceed to stomp with impunity.

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Meta holo has something like 2x leap and 3 blast finishers? Kinda crazy sustain when you can blast water field 3 times and even manage to get a leap of it too.

Technically 2 leap finishers and 2 blast finishers, but chaining them together (2x blast, 1x leap) is a move of desperation.

For example, if I need to blast my water fields twice and throw in a leap, it's because I'm really low on health and have no alternatives. It uses up a huge amount of my heat bar for survival's sake. Usually the only other skill I can throw in at that point is a corona burst and then deactivate forge. Hope it hits before casting as many of my other CC's as I can until my other cooldowns come back.

Most of what I'm reading are people asking for nerfs to core engineer (elixirs, etc), which I'm 100% against (I would like a reversion to the Elixir U change, mainly for the toolbelt though). Core engineer is not viable in PvP, nor is scrapper, and nerfing core hurts both, making engineers railroaded even more into using holo than they currently are.

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"coro.3176" said:I would suggest a few things:

1. make holo more vulnerable in forge - maybe cut the sustain a bit, maybe make overheat more likely or mandatory
2. halve the range on holo shockwave - moving out of its range ought to be viable counterplay and it currently just isn't
3. move the stability on corona burst to 2 stacks on the first pulse and nothing on the second. You shouldn't have to dodge/block twice to deny the holo stab.
4. nerf some of the holo defensive utilities

Overall, Holo is supposed to be a glass cannon, but it doesn't play like one right now.

1. There is no sustain actually built into forge. The only "sustain" that comes from it is the stability from corona burst, which is traited (and has conditions attached to it now). All other "sustain" skills in forge are actually utilities or heal skills.
2. I do agree that the range on the shockwave is large. Should be 400 instead of 600.
3. That... wouldn't actually do much to affect gameplay, other than encouraging burstier builds even further.
4. They have been nerfed, repeatedly, especially things like the additive -> multiplicative change to spectrum shield, and significant cooldown increases all around.

Heat Therapy is built-in. That's a 6500ish heal per heat cycle. That's like a free heal per 20s. I'd consider that, the 15% reduced damage trait, and the CB barrier (basically the only trait people will ever run in pvp) to be pretty good sustain.

What would you suggest instead?

@"coro.3176" said:

Heat Therapy is built-in. That's a 6500ish heal per heat cycle. That's like a free heal per 20s.

The trait "Heat Therapy" is bugged , you get healing somewhere in the range of 80% of what the tooltip says.(https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/658248#Comment_658248)and the healing is only usefull when your Health bar is not full ofc.With traits like "light Density Amplifier" "Crystal Configuration: Storm" and "Thermal Release Valve" all affecting heat generation/loss in combinations with various levels of endurance regenerations, maybe it's best to not tie health gained to heat loss to make balancing sustain simpler (if sustain is considered a problem).

Lock utilitys and tool beltsduring photo form just like shroud mechanic, that would make holosmith equal to reapers (but still better).