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Crazy idea to introduce open world players to Raids


anduriell.6280

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So following the idea from the Queen's Gauntlet, When a raid is cleared more than X times before the reset, one of the bosses of that Raid goes to a PvE map to do havoc.
Similar mechanics (just adapted to the increased number of players and map size) which will provide Raid rewards to each player once more until the reset.

So raiders get an opportunity to get more raid rewards and Open world players get the opportunity to get introduced in a "easy" raid.

What's your opinion?

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a) next time try to make the opinion you dislike less insulting to take

b) what anet really needs to do is teach players how to play the game in general (not raid encounters, basic stuff like breakbar) and maybe add a training run tab to lfg (but that will probably be spammed with raid sells)

c) having bosses randomly appear in random places will cause issues with population (what if you're in an overflow map or ppl aren't interested)

d) alot of raid bosses are designed around/with their arena and you can't just remove that

e) a great part of raid design is around orginazation which you can't just expect in open world

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I think that whatever you're smoking is bad for you and you should stop it.

For me personally, this would completely remove the need for me to go into any raid cause I get them the way I want them. I stay away from structured group content because I don't want to deal with people and I find the combat system too uninteresting to overcome that and care about beating bosses with enrage timers.

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Honestly the idea of taking somthing, lets say a boss encounter any of them and upon reaching certain community benchmarks triggering extra encounters of variant encounters is at its core a great idea, your post though not so much.

Lets say for example, every X amount of times shattered observatory is completed aspects of the mists apear throughout tyria due to the destabilisation of the fractals from arkks work. (such as certain bosses or enviromental affects)or in another vain, affter a world boss is killed x amount of times by the community a tempered / variant version appears either as a replacement for its next spawned time or elsewhere in the world.

If implimented well it could add a bit more to tyrias living world.

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As a non raider, we don't need an intro, plus we have Triple Trouble and Serpents Ire which double up as harder open world bosses anyway. And without raid experienced commanding they wouldn't happen either since they require a level of organisation and coordination most of us open world players don't really attune with.

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I do not raid, but what gives you the impression that world bosses are hard? Many of them can be soloed and Most of them can be done with 5 players or so (assuming you know what you are doing). Man, people already cry rivers that HoT maps are hard. Some even complain that story bosses are hard (to be fair these are mostly tedious and lame).

More important, open world should be easy enough that kids and people with disabilities could play them without issues. Accessibility is the open world standard.

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@Gehenna.3625 said:I think that whatever you're smoking is bad for you and you should stop it.Ehhhh...... Isn't that just pure toxic without adding any value to the conversation?

@Ayrilana.1396 said:No. Anet had dumbed down versions in LS3 and it didn’t change anything.I also still stand by that if players want the raid rewards then they have to earn them like everyone else and actually do (or participate) in the actual raids.

Bigger picture! You are being blinded by the rock and don't see the rest of the beach!

This change will accomplish two things:

  • No raiders will have an opportunity to sample the Raids mechanics and lose the fear to begin with it.
  • It will introduce no-raiders to raids rewards. Having access to an small sample of the long term rewards will make some start raiding just to be able do something with those LI. It works with the black lion chests i don't see i can't work with this.
  • To avoid failing to meet the weekly quota probably more players will join.
  • Hardcore raiders will have an opportunity to play the raid once more but somehow different! For more rewards!
  • More people playing the content (Raids) in words of MightyTeapot means more resources from the company to develop more content!

But Hey! I see most of the voters here(62% at this moment) (Raiders i guess?) don't want new opportunities for new players to join! And then here complain about why it takes so long to develop a raid...

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As a player who dislikes any kind of bullet sponge boss in any game and repetitive rotation based gameplay, this would do nothing to make me want to play raids. I prefer enemies similar in caliber to the player, where fights can be over in seconds or a game of trying to outsmart/land a hit, or being swarmed by multiple weaker opponents in TPS/FPS style - kill or be killed and it's all about style/flow. I don't get any satisfaction from learning and executing a skill rotation for ages slowly grinding down a huge hp bar and memorising contrived mechanics - of course I respect players who do and fully recognise that there is a lot of skill and huge amount of game knowledge involved in executing this to a high level, but I just don't enjoy it - likely nothing will ever change that.

This doesn't mean I don't like pve - on the contrary in games like warframe or mass effect 3 multiplayer, pve is a lot of fun - because of the multiple "player sized" opponents that still pose a huge threat but can be easily and quickly killed through application of skill. Thinking back to mass effect 3 multiplayer, you could get wrecked fast if a husk jumped you or a marauder elbowed you in the face for example - but at the same time if you were in the zone you could flow through enemies like butter, as long as you didn't trip up and get sync killed by a phantom or something (sure that was contrived bs, just like geth stunlock bs, but the point stands that you could dispatch them in seconds).

As it is the only reason I ever played fractals was rewards/achievements (stuff like infusing/attuning rings/backpiece), the only reason I participated in "organised open world map metas" such as Dragon's Stand again for rewards/achievements, and so on. I don't play them for fun. Maybe part of me enjoys the map environments and opponent aesthetics like Shattered Observatory, but the fights themselves are not my cup of tea. Actually the one fractal where I enjoy the fights is Urban Battleground - especially the opening. I love the fast paced, dodge all the arrows and fighting through "normal" sized opponents - and even the "bosses" in there aren't hugely tanky which is nice. You can kill everything in that fractal pretty fast but equally can get wrecked by the siege/arrows etc if not careful - this is fun.

It's a shame I'll never get to enjoy the raid map environments - especially the new one of Zommoros, but it is as it is. I want to, I really want to like doing gw2 pve, but in reality unless there is some drastic improvement in enemy AI that makes them similar to players, it's never going to be more than completing it for the sake of reward/achievement or casually chilling out.

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@derd.6413 said:a) next time try to make the opinion you dislike less insulting to take

b) what anet really needs to do is teach players how to play the game in general (not raid encounters, basic stuff like breakbar) and maybe add a training run tab to lfg (but that will rpobably be spammed with raid sells)

c) having bosses randomly appear in random places will cause issues will cause issues with population (what if you're in an overflow map or ppl aren't interested)

d) alot of raid bosses are designed around/with their arena and you can't just remove that

e) a great part of raid design is around orginazation which you can't just expect in open world

I agree with all of this.

A lot of instanced bosses can't simply be 'copied and pasted' into a different map - a lot of their mechanics are build into the map rather than the boss, or require things in the map to function so it would be a significant piece of work for Anet to move them to a new map, and would have to be done separately for each map (and each place on the map) where the boss needs to appear.

And even if they did that it wouldn't have the effect you want. A lot of open-world bosses already have similar mechanics to raid bosses. What makes them difficult is that in raids you're restricted to 10 people. Doing something like the Legendary Corrupted Facet with 10 players (or less) is quite similar to fighting a raid boss. Add another 10 people however and most of them can ignore the mechanics and simply fight the same way they normally would because even with mediocre damage there will generally be enough to kill it (assuming the full group started attacking when the boss was triggered - if someone triggers it then calls people in it gets much harder) and you're less likely to be hit with special attacks or effects enough to need to worry about them. Add a full squad of 50 players and it's simply a matter of dodging AoE's and attacking in between until it's dead.

And anyone who isn't currently interested in raids is in exactly the same position they are now - they don't need to do them because they're entirely optional. Even more so because now they can get the rewards without entering an actual raid.

Basically this is a way for raiders to get an easy 2nd set of rewards...and probably complain that those rewards are no longer exclusive to raiders. If you want the rewards increased you could just say so. Although I think Anet are unlikely to agree to double them.

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@anduriell.6280 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:I think that whatever you're smoking is bad for you and you should stop it.Ehhhh...... Isn't that just pure toxic without adding any value to the conversation?

@Ayrilana.1396 said:No. Anet had dumbed down versions in LS3 and it didn’t change anything.I also still stand by that if players want the raid rewards then they have to earn them like everyone else and actually do (or participate) in the actual raids.

Bigger picture! You are being blinded by the rock and don't see the rest of the beach!

This change will accomplish two things:
  • No raiders will have an opportunity to sample the Raids mechanics and lose the fear to begin with it.
  • It will introduce no-raiders to raids rewards. Having access to an small sample of the long term rewards will make some start raiding just to be able do something with those LI. It works with the black lion chests i don't see i can't work with this.
  • To avoid failing to meet the weekly quota probably more players will join.
  • Hardcore raiders will have an opportunity to play the raid once more but somehow different! For more rewards!
  • More people playing the content (Raids) in words of MightyTeapot means more resources from the company to develop more content!

But Hey! I see most of the voters here(62% at this moment) (Raiders i guess?) don't want new opportunities for new players to join! And then here complain about why it takes so long to develop a raid...

You’re blinded by the desire to get raid rewards without putting in the effort it takes to learn and complete them.

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@"anduriell.6280" said:Ehhhh...... Isn't that just pure toxic without adding any value to the conversation?Your poll is worded to insult those that disagree with you. It's just a reflection of your own toxicity back to you.

Uncalled for, maybe. But not unfair.

Bigger picture! You are being blinded by the rock and don't see the rest of the beach!

This change will accomplish two things:

  • No raiders will have an opportunity to sample the Raids mechanics and lose the fear to begin with it.
  • It will introduce no-raiders to raids rewards. Having access to an small sample of the long term rewards will make some start raiding just to be able do something with those LI. It works with the black lion chests i don't see i can't work with this.
  • To avoid failing to meet the weekly quota probably more players will join.
  • Hardcore raiders will have an opportunity to play the raid once more but somehow different! For more rewards!
  • More people playing the content (Raids) in words of MightyTeapot means more resources from the company to develop more content!

But Hey! I see most of the voters here(62% at this moment) (Raiders i guess?) don't want new opportunities for new players to join! And then here complain about why it takes so long to develop a raid...

Let's be clear, many of us "no raiders" are fully well aware of how raids work. We're not afraid of them (insulting, by the way) or ignorant of the rewards. We just don't like them. Many of us have raided in other games, and came to this game in part to stay away from that kind of content.

But let's look at that again, and see the REAL reason you're suggesting all of this:

  • Hardcore raiders will have an opportunity to play the raid once more but somehow different! For more rewards!That's what it always comes down to, isn't it? People that cry for harder content, raids, or whatever are often just after the special rewards they expect to come with it. The idea that "the content IS the reward" isn't what's motivating you here. You're not suggesting this because you think it's fun. You just want to drag us annoying "no raiders" through the content you like so you can get more.
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@anduriell.6280 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:I think that whatever you're smoking is bad for you and you should stop it.Ehhhh...... Isn't that just pure toxic without adding any value to the conversation?

It's just a joke. Geez, can't say anything anymore without someone calling it toxic or being offended. Again it was just a simple joke, nothing deeper to be found in that.

I could've said without humor that I felt it was a terrible idea and then you probably wouldn't have reacted and yet, it means exactly the same thing just without the tongue-in-cheek.

So no, it's not pure toxic. It was a simple joke that you seem to be taking way too seriously for some reason.

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@anduriell.6280 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:I think that whatever you're smoking is bad for you and you should stop it.Ehhhh...... Isn't that just pure toxic without adding any value to the conversation?

@Ayrilana.1396 said:No. Anet had dumbed down versions in LS3 and it didn’t change anything.I also still stand by that if players want the raid rewards then they have to earn them like everyone else and actually do (or participate) in the actual raids.

Bigger picture! You are being blinded by the rock and don't see the rest of the beach!

This change will accomplish two things:
  • No raiders will have an opportunity to sample the Raids mechanics and lose the fear to begin with it.
  • It will introduce no-raiders to raids rewards. Having access to an small sample of the long term rewards will make some start raiding just to be able do something with those LI. It works with the black lion chests i don't see i can't work with this.
  • To avoid failing to meet the weekly quota probably more players will join.
  • Hardcore raiders will have an opportunity to play the raid once more but somehow different! For more rewards!
  • More people playing the content (Raids) in words of MightyTeapot means more resources from the company to develop more content!

But Hey! I see most of the voters here(62% at this moment) (Raiders i guess?) don't want new opportunities for new players to join! And then here complain about why it takes so long to develop a raid...

You're either a troll, or you're providing a loaded question with one sided answers.

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Fighting a boss with 50+ that will die in seconds usually before I can get a hit in because it was designed to be killed by 10 people? Plus since raid rewards drop a lot of sellable mats don't forget all the idle folks and bots.

I'm only just barely getting into raids(12 LI) but this just sounds like someone wanting double rewards to me.

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There are already open world bosses that use mechanics parallel to, similar to, or nearly identical to those found in raids and fractals. A lot of time, that has resulted in complaints from those who choose to avoid challenging instanced content. Rarely has it resulted in more people learning mechanics: those who get mechanics figure it out anyhow, those that don't just get frustrated.

I still think ANet is doing the right thing by including a variety of challenges, by giving boss fights a chance to fail. I also think it's naive to think it's all they've got planned for helping the community learn more. (Although, it's unclear whether they have anything coming up soon to address the learning gap.)

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The part of the open world PvE crowd that doesn't know about game mechanics like dodging or CC will be carried by the rest of the crowd, get the rewards anyway and will have learnt nothing. The players who do know this stuff don't need it shoved into the open world. Your suggestions helps no one except ppl who want more rewards for less effort.

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ANet continues to release raid encounters. They continue to release persistent world boss encounters. The only real differences between the status quo and the OP's idea would be: (potentially) harder mechanics for a persistent world boss; and ANet issuing raid-exclusive rewards in the persistent world. The former seems to be a divergence from the preferences of open world players, would result in under-use of the new encounters and divisiveness of the player-base when some people feel the need to blame others for failure. The latter seems counter to the entire reward structure raids are built around.

As others have said, the wording of the OP's poll is extremely biased. The message is, "Support my idea or be lumped in with those who disdain challenge."

No, thanks, to the idea and the poll.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:I think that whatever you're smoking is bad for you and you should stop it.Ehhhh...... Isn't that just pure toxic without adding any value to the conversation?

@Ayrilana.1396 said:No. Anet had dumbed down versions in LS3 and it didn’t change anything.I also still stand by that if players want the raid rewards then they have to earn them like everyone else and actually do (or participate) in the actual raids.

Bigger picture! You are being blinded by the rock and don't see the rest of the beach!

This change will accomplish two things:
  • No raiders will have an opportunity to sample the Raids mechanics and lose the fear to begin with it.
  • It will introduce no-raiders to raids rewards. Having access to an small sample of the long term rewards will make some start raiding just to be able do something with those LI. It works with the black lion chests i don't see i can't work with this.
  • To avoid failing to meet the weekly quota probably more players will join.
  • Hardcore raiders will have an opportunity to play the raid once more but somehow different! For more rewards!
  • More people playing the content (Raids) in words of MightyTeapot means more resources from the company to develop more content!

But Hey! I see most of the voters here(62% at this moment) (Raiders i guess?) don't want new opportunities for new players to join! And then here complain about why it takes so long to develop a raid...

You’re blinded by the desire to get raid rewards without putting in the effort it takes to learn and complete them.

And you're blinded by this notion that raids are somehow special and deserve bigger rewards, when its its the exact opposite in intent...... they made the thing harder so less people would consistently get the reward. The reward is the bait, and the only reason anyone would put the effort into it; which is why raiders feel threatened when that exclusivity aspect is removed, because they spent all that effort on a sub-optimal path.

Personally I find the whole reward system to be the problem, since so much of the "end game/hard content" rewards directly exist to make repeating that process easier. Whats the point of "challenging the player" if the goal is to reduce the challenge?

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