Creating Awakened and the loss of Joko — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Creating Awakened and the loss of Joko

I’m not sure if this is covered in the lore but how exactly were Awakened created? What I mean by this is what role did Joko have in the process? Now that he’s gone, does this mean that more Awakened cannot be created? What happens to those that are already Awakened?

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  • If that is the case, then I am curious how in Vabbi they were creating more awakened in the name of Joko at the Necropolis. Or did I misunderstand what was happening? I very much feel like one of the judges was mad that they were continuing to make awakened without Joko present, but I could be misremembering.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2018

    just a theory but
    what I assume happens is, Joko binds the soul, with magic (for fuel) to the original corpse.
    Then the corpse serves as a vessel to hold the soul/spirit until either the magic runs out, or the vessel is too damaged to hold the spirit.
    Prior, Palawa could endlessly restore the spirits to the broken bodies, making them 'seem' immortal.
    Now that he's gone, the remaining awakened are still here, with their souls intact. but Joko is not around to revive them if their bodies break again.
    So while they are immortal age-wise, they can now 'die' again.
    But I assume that since they are undead, they don't regenerate their magic passively like living beings do, meaning every action is consumed through
    magic rather than stamina, and death occurs when that runs out.

    So an awakened could essentially sit out until the end of time if he sat down in a cave never doing anything.
    But living, fighting, and using magic will risk breaking his vessel, or running out of magic.

    (just a theory, to complement Connor's. There is no evidence to say what actually is true, until Connor tells us more)

    but now that we're on the subject, there's something with prior undead that I'm interested in.
    Zhaitan, necromancers, and Joko all seem to use different kinds of undead.
    The undead of Zhaitan feel like animated corpses, who access the memories of the corpses they posess. Hence they are not the 'real' ghosts, but simply fractions of Zhaitan controlling the body, using whatever knowledge the brain had in live. hence a Risen Farmer can speak and trade, but can't fight more than flail around a hoe.
    Meanwhile, possessing the body of a general gives the risen access to memories of tactics and combat. Which he can then share with the lesser risen. And ultimately, the risen animals don't have access to more skills than fight and flight skills. This makes risen seem like real ressurections, when they are in fact just copies. I am basing this off the fact that we have conversed with ghosts that are angry or sad seeing their bodies moving and killing. This suggests that they are just puppets with artificial souls.

    The undead of Joko, the awakened, seem to have the actual souls of the people revived. They are stripped from the mists and chained into the corpses. The real thing, the real ego.

    And then there's the undead the regular necromancer uses, an amalgamate of bones and flesh with what I presume to be a soul made of the necromancers magic with ann artifical personality "fight for me", "defend me", "chop this tree for me"

    @Connor Fallon.9408 said:
    All of the Awakened up until this point were created by Joko himself, or by channeling Joko's abilities. No one knows how to make more now that he's dead. That said, those who are already Awakened seem to be sticking around, so he clearly isn't required for their basic existence.

    Historically, we've seen some lower level Awakened in Vabbi collapse during his absence, but we've also seen others who stuck around for hundreds of years even when he wasn't around. We don’t have any data for what happens when he is GONE gone. It's possible they will last forever, it's possible they will all fall apart after some time, or it could vary based on rank or self-care. It's really too early to know.

    Either way, if they are killed in combat or in an accident - without anyone knowing how to re-Awaken them, that will be it, which is why we see so many struggling with the idea of mortality in Episode 4.

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭

    One has to wonder... who awakened Joko?

  • Rognik.2579Rognik.2579 Member ✭✭✭

    @Narcemus.1348 said:
    If that is the case, then I am curious how in Vabbi they were creating more awakened in the name of Joko at the Necropolis. Or did I misunderstand what was happening? I very much feel like one of the judges was mad that they were continuing to make awakened without Joko present, but I could be misremembering.

    As Connor said, others could create Awakened, but they were channeling that power through Joko somehow. Without Joko animated, none of the other Awakened can make new ones.

    @Ben K.6238 said:
    One has to wonder... who awakened Joko?

    Joko wasn't an Awakened, he's a lich. As such, he created the subsection of undead known as the Awakened.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Narcemus.1348 said:
    If that is the case, then I am curious how in Vabbi they were creating more awakened in the name of Joko at the Necropolis. Or did I misunderstand what was happening? I very much feel like one of the judges was mad that they were continuing to make awakened without Joko present, but I could be misremembering.

    Its likely that Joko had placed some sort of vessel there that he either imbued with the power to awaken bodies, or it channeled his power directly to awaken bodies. Now that he is dead, the former could theoretically still work until its current power ran out

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • Wanze.8410Wanze.8410 Member ✭✭✭

    @Connor Fallon.9408 said:
    No one knows how to make more now that he's dead.

    You are implying that he is really dead.

    Fool me once, shame on me....

  • Kallist.5917Kallist.5917 Member ✭✭✭

    @Narcemus.1348 said:
    If that is the case, then I am curious how in Vabbi they were creating more awakened in the name of Joko at the Necropolis. Or did I misunderstand what was happening? I very much feel like one of the judges was mad that they were continuing to make awakened without Joko present, but I could be misremembering.

    Traveling through the maps in Guild Wars 2 can be thought of as traveling through different points in the commanders timeline. Especially in the Expansions and Season content. Each map is locked in that moment, that point in history. A good example would be Tarir is still attacked even though Mordremoth is dead. And The pact are still fighting Teq even though Zhaitan is dead.
    So the reason we are still seeing them argue about awakening without Joko present is because at that point in the timeline, he was still locked away in the afterlife, waiting for us to defeat Balthazar to free him.

  • Agent Noun.7350Agent Noun.7350 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2018

    @Kallist.5917 said:

    @Narcemus.1348 said:
    If that is the case, then I am curious how in Vabbi they were creating more awakened in the name of Joko at the Necropolis. Or did I misunderstand what was happening? I very much feel like one of the judges was mad that they were continuing to make awakened without Joko present, but I could be misremembering.

    Traveling through the maps in Guild Wars 2 can be thought of as traveling through different points in the commanders timeline. Especially in the Expansions and Season content. Each map is locked in that moment, that point in history. A good example would be Tarir is still attacked even though Mordremoth is dead. And The pact are still fighting Teq even though Zhaitan is dead.
    So the reason we are still seeing them argue about awakening without Joko present is because at that point in the timeline, he was still locked away in the afterlife, waiting for us to defeat Balthazar to free him.

    Side note: this is actually something that Final Fantasy XIV does (almost) explicitly. I think it's generally understood that your character's level in FFXIV is roughly equal to a story timeline. If you do a level 50 quest, you can reasonably assume that it takes place around the same span of time as other level 50 quests, which is how the game explains how you can go from a world where Character A is dead to a world where that same character is a major part of a quest--you're basically playing through a flashback. It's also how the game explains running dungeons more than once, doing hard/extreme modes of raids (they're embellished retellings), and even why you come back when you die (that never happened--your character's limited precognition showed you a bad future). They even use that limited precognition ability--which is a major story element--to explain why you see telegraphs for enemy attacks.

    It's not really necessary to directly explain game mechanics in in-universe terms like that but it's kind of fun.

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