deadeye needs nerf.

Deadeye in WvsW is so unbalanced the people that are saying it is balanced is the people that play it.-Whats wrong with it*there is no counter play for deadeye.

*death judgment is 1500 range unblockable massive hit.people say that in order to do dmg with death judge you need to build malice stacks which you dont. Deadeyes just walk up from stealth not even marking you they hit 6-9k. so when they build up malice it's 12-15k death judge. and the fact they can spam it because stealth on dodge roll is some how a thing, so death judge can be used like 3 times in a matter of 15 secs. and cant be reflected or anything so there is no risk for firing the bullet.

*dodge rolling to get stealth is so unbalanced, what happened to actually having to use stealth skills. not just using a dodge roll and gain 4 secs of stealth. so they can use another death judge.

*you cant condi bomb them, because almost all of them use shadow art which cleanses condis from stealth which they can perma stealth.

*power dmg is hard to kill them with, because they have so many evades and again perma stealth. i get perma stealthing as a thief but you shouldnt be able to 1500 range hit people unblockable for 9k with ezz

*apparently the class has no mobility which is not true as shadow step, and deaths retreat so they can get out of combat in a matter of seconds

*the only counter play is reveal. but deadeye has a skill that removes reveal... so you just have to get lucky and get around to using your reveal x3 times so you can catch them with something, and by that stage you are completely out of cooldowns from trying to dodge and invuln all the death judgdments that come from stealth and you can only see them as they got to fire the bullet and thats your only window to evade the hit.

there is just simply no risk reward for deadeyes.they nerf the rifle wars because they found range dmg that high shouldnt be a thing but than deadeyes come out. and i know soulbeasts do alot of dmg from range to but they can be locked down and can see when they are going unblockable.

*it just needs to be made where it can get counted by messing up.for instance removing the remove reveal they have on shadow meld so they can be seen.or making death judgment blockable or can be reflectedor just simply dial down there crazy dmg they can get and having to build malice stacks up to actually do dmg. not have an already high 6-9k death judgment and when stacked they do 11+k dmg..

something needs to be done as there are just more and more of them everyday in WvsW and killing the gamemode. i know a lot of people in the WvsW community and all of them say how broken deadeye is. Full minstrel guardians with 3.5k armor are getting chunked 10k when they have malice stacks up with death judgement.i know people that play deadeyes are going to comment saying its not broken but it is. and especially when you have 3-4 of them all ganking you at the same time.deadeye needs to be looked at and needs a change.

Thanks for reading and let me know what what you think and suggestions on changes.

shadow meld is just a retarded idea for a skill.

Just place a stealth trap. Oh wait.... shadow meld strikes again.

All jokes aside have you tried playing full zerker Gun Flame build? It's the funniest thing watching a thief 1.5k range threshold get dropped like a pancake. At least you'll have x 2 defy pain. It's definitely a gimmick build but you can fight back with it. Most of those pew pew thieves run zerkers so follow up with rifle #3 if they still have some HP. The only downside are the ones that run acro for the get out of jail free card invul/evade thing trait. It should at least send them running back into stealth, enough time for you to be on your way.

Play warrior or SB you can beat them easy mode or partner up with warrior. "On My Mark!" is a 1200 radius reveal for 6 seconds with 25 seconds CD or Sight beyond Sight reveals for 3 seconds and cd is 20 seconds. Play Great sword with axe and shield you can cc with bull's rush or shield bash following massive axe spam in a great sword f1. Or just play condi thief it requires no skill and just spam 333 dodge 1 333 dodge 1 dodge weapon swap and 222. It's dead! Those are the easiest counters I can think off. Minimal skill required. Or you can play condi FB and just lure the deadeye to you and than go into fire tome and spam burn skills, This one is a bit harder but you should be able to roast the little fuzzy ghost hands down. O

Or just be me and play weaver and dodge heal him to death and than spam fire 2 with rotation spam. Fill the little devil with condi and soft cc... we will be dead in time if he stays and fight. Weaver fights are slow but you should have the upper hand tossing him around. But the warrior and condi thief is the best to counter deadeye if you are alone. Or just ask a vet mirage to spam condi clones on him. Deadeye are weak to cc and condi.

Idk wvw, but I tend to just murder Deadeye's with my Reaper. They're very oblivious to boons that don't hurt them, condi's that don't hurt them, and surroundings that don't hurt them. Flesh Wurm/Spectral Armor Reaper sugoi.

Edit: In spvp.

Awful design for the class. Only fun for the deadeye themselves. At least with other good roaming builds you feel like you have some control over the situation and there is counter play. Even though other builds are strong, the challenge can be fun. Deadeye is not like that at all. It's just like playing hide and seek. I'm not saying it's OP, because it's not. It's just dumb to play against.

They said they will have a minor balance update on Tuesday, maybe some issues will be solved? We'll see.

I like fighting deadeyes using other classes. If you know the intricacies of how they work, you can pretty much shut down most of the de's you come across. It's only if you are outnumbered they become a problem, or surprise backstabs if you aren't expecting. I find the success rate of DJ's on me getting lower and lower, that they rarely connect. I'm also a laggy player, so I know this isn't impossible for anyone below 330ms ping. I think I frustrate more de's than they ever could me.

Holo's counter DE pretty well,Soulbeasts ( a good one ) counters them aswell.Good mesmer counters them power/condi both can do the job,another good thief can counter them,a proper spellbreaker can aswell.Theres counter enough to DE,stop lying to yourself,proper uses of reflect also work ( You dodge the dj and reflect after ) and a proper placed reveal STILL fucks them over aswell.Count the shadowmeld, its a 2 ammo count and after that you know its on a 45 sec cd. Also use Los ( Line of sight ),but people dont do that,no people just blast them skills randomly hoping it will hit.

Meaning,you dont pop your reveal at the Start of the fight but try to lose Los and after him revealing himself a couple times or you seeing shadowmeld being used twice its time to strike that reveal.Ive had people countering it pretty well,and some just dont know how to counter it at all.Thats a you issue,practice against them or play the spec yourself to see how and what.

Best way to hurt a Deadeye. Ignore him.

@StabbersTheThird.6053 said:Idk wvw, but I tend to just murder Deadeye's with my Reaper. They're very oblivious to boons that don't hurt them, condi's that don't hurt them, and surroundings that don't hurt them. Flesh Wurm/Spectral Armor Reaper sugoi.

Edit: In spvp.

sadly a reaper is a free kill for DE in wvw, only way to kill them as a reaper is if you catch them by surprise and kill them before they react.

@felincyriac.5981 said:

@StabbersTheThird.6053 said:Idk wvw, but I tend to just murder Deadeye's with my Reaper. They're very oblivious to boons that don't hurt them, condi's that don't hurt them, and surroundings that don't hurt them. Flesh Wurm/Spectral Armor Reaper sugoi.

Edit: In spvp.

Reaper is a free kill for any type of kiting.Warri rifle will eat you up aswell,thats not a DE issue.

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@felincyriac.5981 said:

@StabbersTheThird.6053 said:Idk wvw, but I tend to just murder Deadeye's with my Reaper. They're very oblivious to boons that don't hurt them, condi's that don't hurt them, and surroundings that don't hurt them. Flesh Wurm/Spectral Armor Reaper sugoi.

Edit: In spvp.

I gunned a few Reapers down yesterday as a rifle Berserker because I got bored. Works like a charm, I'm keeping that rifle in my inventory for the future lol

@Slaughter.6379 said:

i know people that play deadeyes are going to comment saying its not broken but it is. and especially when you have 3-4 of them all ganking you at the same time.deadeye needs to be looked at and needs a change.

Thanks for reading and let me know what what you think and suggestions on changes.

OP, who in their right mind would want to pick a fight with 3-4 DE when you know they there to gank you. Then you come here complaining saying the class is too op.A smart person would just walk away from situations like those. Ones that stay are free bags.

You get jumped by 4 of almost anything in the game solo and you're probably dead so that's a silly argument.

@StabbersTheThird.6053 said:Idk wvw, but I tend to just murder Deadeye's with my Reaper. They're very oblivious to boons that don't hurt them, condi's that don't hurt them, and surroundings that don't hurt them. Flesh Wurm/Spectral Armor Reaper sugoi.

Edit: In spvp.

This is the WvW forum.

I think DE's for the most part are fine. You can't really nerf their damage in any meaningful way without hurting the entire spec or without invalidating builds that don't run full zerker/critical strikes, so that's out of the question. DJ being unblockable is fine as long as it has adequate tells which it does. I think the problem lies in DE's ability to avoid counterpressure in 1v1 and small-scale situations which makes them oppressive. Silent Scope and Shadow Meld are the two biggest offenders.

Simple couple of fixes for this:

1. Lower Silent Scope's stealth duration from 3s to 1.5s. Other sources of stealth still give them plenty of stealth access and taking SA means they'd still have plenty of stealth duration.
2. Change Shadow Meld such that only the final charge can remove revealed, but also reduce the icd to 1 second or remove it entirely so they can suddenly blow both charges if they want to remove revealed quickly.

The base duration on any given skill giving stealth (such as Silent scope) is not the issue. That three seconds is needed for many builds to set up their attacks or to take advantage one the skills that pulse on the 4 second mark, such as traiting SA giving two condition cleanses.

Lower those bases and you unduly marginalize those other skills which would require revamp in SA.In DE spec the dodge at 3 seconds base gives more opportunity to set the kneel. Lower that too much and kneel skills much harder to use.

The main issue is STACKING stealth over and over again and where the shave should happen is on that stacking. It is still allowed but it has less a retrun.

When already stealthed ALL stealth adds are reduced by one second from their base. Start here and see how it works. It should force the DE out of stealth more and will somewhat penalize using a second skill to add stealth as it becomes weaker when you do so. Thus a DE using two dodges and traited SA for that extra second gets 7 seconds rather then 8. If he uses Smeld and a Dodge right after the Smeld and is NOT in SA he gets 5 seconds not 6.

Play this out for a while and if it still not enough shave another second off the base add if already stealthed when a stealth skill used. This would allow the INITIAL use of a stealth to still reward those people who take the SA line to garner the added benefits of SE and rejuv while penalizing to a degree those chaining together stealth to remain perpetually hidden. I feel if this done the DE will be much more deliberate about using stealth sources.

This will also impact stealth stacking on other versions of Thief such as the d/p DD builds. One reason why I think this a better method is that there were just as many complainst about stealth stacking prior to DE AND DE relative to DD should maintain a significant edge in stealth access when using the weapon that thematically built around stealth. Taking away Dodges and the like from DD where the DE closes the gap on dodge access is not a good idea and targeting JUST de Stealth access do DD narrows the gap in stealth access is not a good idea. The two specs have to play out differently and not get more sameness.

People try to tell how to fight against deadeye, but it's not like you have any time to fight. You run somewhere and you are dead before you can do anything. It's not like you get any signs than deadeye is close. Even if you see smokefield you can't just dodge random time and hope that deadeye backstab same time.

@Junkpile.7439 said:People try to tell how to fight against deadeye, but it's not like you have any time to fight. You run somewhere and you are dead before you can do anything. It's not like you get any signs than deadeye is close. Even if you see smokefield you can't just dodge random time and hope that deadeye backstab same time.

If the DE is using backstab they not necessarily Rifle specced. They can use d/p to stack stealth and they could always do this. DE does let you know a DE about because you get that MARK above your head. DJ from rifle in such a case is easier to avoid then is that backstab.

The way to counter that incoming malicious backstab is the same means one used to counter a backstab prior to DE. The consequences of failing to counter are worse but you DO have more warning , not less. One thing I like to do on my warrior when marked is rely an about face a lot , do not move in straight lines, use AOE and cleave. He still has to get close up and you do not necessarily have to SEE him to help mitigate that damage. You do not necessarily have to dodge that attack , but if you manage to turn around at the right time, or get weakness on the enemy it will hurt a lot less.

@"babazhook.6805" said:The consequences of failing to counter are worse but you DO have more warning , not less.

Ehh...not really. Where was the warning here? I backstabbed this mesmer at the same time that the Mark's cast time completed.

https://clips.twitch.tv/SneakyIgnorantWheelWTRuck

@Turk.5460 said:

@"babazhook.6805" said:The consequences of failing to counter are worse but you DO have more warning , not less.

You could do that on a non DE build as well. If no malice built the outcome is the same. Again just another reason I think the fix is looking to stealth stacking rather then singling out DE stealth via Rifle.

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:The consequences of failing to counter are worse but you DO have more warning , not less.

Perhaps, but it is much more difficult to maintain permanent stealth as DareDevil, and even harder as Core. I followed that person for a little over 2 minutes in stealth the whole time. As DrD you would also be missing out on the damage from BQoBK, as well as at the very least 3% from the difference between bonuses in the traitlines. Most likely the scenario wouldn't have happened at all since DrD perma stealth requires BP, a much louder and much more obvious tell that a Thief is stalking you.

@Turk.5460 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:The consequences of failing to counter are worse but you DO have more warning , not less.

I am not sure where DD gets more stealth sources then does core. They pretty well the same.

DE should be easier to get stealth and have more of it then DD by design just as DD gets more dodges.

Permastealth thief WAS happening before DE such as with that Ghost Thief and trappers runes were not required. It was certainly easier to spot one stacking it but with DE thief outside the rifle spec with the dodge the tells are there. Smeld has a little puff granted harder to note then BP. Shadow Gust a tell that I find easier to notice then BP etc. The only one that more difficult to read is stealth on dodge but then that Rifle centric. Again I do not think silent scope should ever be accessed by other weaponsets.

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Junkpile.7439 said:People try to tell how to fight against deadeye, but it's not like you have any time to fight. You run somewhere and you are dead before you can do anything. It's not like you get any signs than deadeye is close. Even if you see smokefield you can't just dodge random time and hope that deadeye backstab same time.