Should "Stronghold" get another chance ?

With the release of HoT, A-net released the stronghold gamemode for pvp. at the beginning it was fun, but shortly after it kinda went down the hill to the point that only a few care for it. Therefore i would like to know, what the community thinks about it. Maybe it could use some tweeks and newer features, or more map themes (like shining blade vs white mantle), or maybe a rework, to make it more a MOBA-ish gamemode with three lanes, the normal gates with dodgeable towers and the Lord at the End Chamber.

No, it's a ridiculous concept for an mmo.

I think maybe simple changes like making it an 8v8 and not making it as PvE heavy

Making it player kill focused instead of NPC kill focused, that's the difference between stronghold and MOBAs... MOBAs aren't just 100% PvE time attacks. Needs tweaks to be classified as PvP.

Stronghold is a PVE map that has no place in PVP.

ANET should just add some Heart quests and a couple of Vistas and drop it as an instanced map in Tyria.

As someone who has played a lot more stronghold then most people, I actually think the game mode is pretty good as is and the general dislike is largely because the meta it was released in left a bad first impression for many people. When stronghold was first released bunk mesmer was at its prime which with pre-nerf well of precognition could get uncounterable mist champion summons as well as chaining precog wells to make door breakers nearly invincible. Heal tempest was also much stronger in early hot and the healing was ridiculously good at keeping door breakers alive while being very tough to take down itself. These builds made stopping the initial doorbreaker push very tough to stop and thus gave the impression that the game mode was a pve dps race to either try to dps down the door breakers or kill enemy lord before they kill yours. However those builds were nerfed to the ground and as it currently stands door breakers are fairly glassy unless supported by firebrands which can also be focused down fairly quickly with good burst. Killing pve enemies right now is a very small part of the game mode, where it is much more efficient to preemptively kill players to deny supply while focusing on winning the mist champion summons to secure a push.

However what I have said about how current stronghold meta is fairly speculative because there are very few high tier players that actually play the game mode. Occasionally you run into a merciless legend but for the most part it seems like everyone there has to be silver or some really low rating. We really don't know how the stronghold meta would shape up with the current state of balance because the population is so small with such an immense skill gap you can't know whether your strategy is good or you are just rolling over bads. This is why I would really like to see a stronghold AT added to the daily rotation just to try and lure in some better players so that we can see what the current meta would actually be like and how it plays before we go overhauling it blindly.

Stronghold is clearly ideal for farming, just as courtyard was. That makes it counterproductive for PvP. No map or game mode should favor specific classes or combinations that strongly. Teams spent entire seasons farming stronghold. In the process they likely drove away players. No one likes to be crushed repeatedly.

@sephiroth.4217 said:I think maybe simple changes like making it an 8v8 and not making it as PvE heavy

I've said it before and say it again: This would be a great change for Stronghold.

• Make it so you need to kill all the guards before killing the Lord.
• Widen the lanes a bit so it fits the new 10vs10 or 8vs8 better.

Those changes would drive me back and test the gamemode again.

Leave stronghold as is. Changes been made so many times in the past it's a waste of time and $$$.Leave it, let the players play it or not.But focus time & $$$ on other stuff way much more needed.

I would still very much like GW2 Battle Royale to be a thing.

Battlerite is coming out with a BR mode. So far, it's been going well and has drawn a lot of attention/viewers on Twitch.

GW2 already has gliding, mounts, good combat... I feel like it would do very well if Anet made it happen.

It would essentially be WvW with sPvP standardized equipment, a closing circle, and an emphasis on kills/last man standing rather than objectives.

Anything outside of Conquest deserves a chance

@phokus.8934 said:No, it's a ridiculous concept for an mmo.

How so?Could you explain?What is wrong with the concept?How would you improve it?

Anything but this boring circlequest pvp they claim as competitive. Gw1 right now still has better pvp

@Wolfs Shadow.7234 said:

@phokus.8934 said:No, it's a ridiculous concept for an mmo.

Scrap Stronghold and focus on 2’s and additional automated tournaments.

This absolute failure of a gamemode soaked up more than enough resources already. Cut your losses Anet and focus on something worth developing.

@shadowpass.4236 said:I would still very much like GW2 Battle Royale to be a thing.

Battlerite is coming out with a BR mode. So far, it's been going well and has drawn a lot of attention/viewers on Twitch.

GW2 already has gliding, mounts, good combat... I feel like it would do very well if Anet made it happen.

It would essentially be WvW with sPvP standardized equipment, a closing circle, and an emphasis on kills/last man standing rather than objectives.

Roll a permastealth deadeye, wait for others to kill themselves, delete the last guy standing, congratulations you have won!

Sounds amazingly fun and interactive.

@witcher.3197 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:I would still very much like GW2 Battle Royale to be a thing.

Battlerite is coming out with a BR mode. So far, it's been going well and has drawn a lot of attention/viewers on Twitch.

GW2 already has gliding, mounts, good combat... I feel like it would do very well if Anet made it happen.

It would essentially be WvW with sPvP standardized equipment, a closing circle, and an emphasis on kills/last man standing rather than objectives.

It's pretty easy to kill a deadeye.

Obviously it deserves a fix, but considering the time it takes to have tournaments implemented, i'd rather have them first.

As I said before, trying to reinvent the wheel while ignoring everything that makes a wheel turn is what made it fail.

It needs a rework no matter how you look at it. Right now it's kind of like a moba, but with the very basic elements that mobas have polished for years and makes them work stripped from it. So of course it will not work.

Whatever it is now, it won't work as it is. It should either be reworked into a more moba-like game, with 2 actual lanes and automatically spawning NPCs, or turned into something completely different.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@witcher.3197 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:I would still very much like GW2 Battle Royale to be a thing.

Battlerite is coming out with a BR mode. So far, it's been going well and has drawn a lot of attention/viewers on Twitch.

GW2 already has gliding, mounts, good combat... I feel like it would do very well if Anet made it happen.

It would essentially be WvW with sPvP standardized equipment, a closing circle, and an emphasis on kills/last man standing rather than objectives.

You don't get the point. Deadeye would just hide and let others kill each other, then swoop in to oneshot that poor last guy who has like 6k HP and no CDs.

It has nothing to do with dedeaye sustain.

For a free for all Anet would have to gut stealth access and mobility across the board.

@witcher.3197 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@witcher.3197 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:I would still very much like GW2 Battle Royale to be a thing.

Battlerite is coming out with a BR mode. So far, it's been going well and has drawn a lot of attention/viewers on Twitch.

GW2 already has gliding, mounts, good combat... I feel like it would do very well if Anet made it happen.

It would essentially be WvW with sPvP standardized equipment, a closing circle, and an emphasis on kills/last man standing rather than objectives.

You're assuming the last guy would have 6k HP and no cds... A good player will still have near full health and cds still up if they know how to play properly.

Either way, if that's a viable strategy, then sure. However, in my post I stated that I would like the emphasis on kills as well as last man standing. So, if a deadeye only got 1 kill at the end and won the match, he wouldn't gain as much GW2BR rating as someone who got second but 7 kills.

But yes, while I do agree that perma stealth in BR shouldn't be a thing, I do not agree with nerfing ALL forms of mobility. Instead, I'd say certain movement skills like portal or shadow trap should be disabled in BR, as well as transform effects such as Rampage and Moa. These are just some examples, there are probably other skills that wouldn't be fun. However, everything else would be fair game.

@Ithilwen.1529 said:Stronghold is clearly ideal for farming, just as courtyard was. That makes it counterproductive for PvP. No map or game mode should favor specific classes or combinations that strongly. Teams spent entire seasons farming stronghold. In the process they likely drove away players. No one likes to be crushed repeatedly.

this, and messing with a complete diferent game mode in standar pvp q the first days, people hated stronghold and courtyard for being and entire diferent gamemode that could pop in your queuing for conquest pvp while you have no toon prepared or no mood for this completely diferent gamemode: oh i want play conquest with my roamer/decaper or point holder... shit... courtyard/stronghold... im fucked

I don't like Stronghold; I played it, and it's just not fun to me. But I fully support more options for everyone to play how they want to play. If ArenaNet could take another look at this mode and revamp it to peoples' liking, that would be awesome. :)

Stronghold in its current state is pretty bad. In practically every case, PvE race to win is by far the best option, and you're better off avoiding other players or running away from combat if there are no enemy NPCs present. The people who like stronghold typically don't realize this or just don't care, and they naively believe the developers' sales pitch about lots of roles and strategy.

The crux of the stronghold problems seems to be that the developers had a detailed idea of how they expected it to play out, and they built around their idealized gameplay. When players found an alternative and far better way to play the mode for a win, practically everything the developers designed-in was ignored or worked counter-intuitively. This was evident and communicated after the first public stronghold test, but the developers appeared to have fallen into a common trap where you can't admit to yourself that what you created has deep flaws.

In order to make stronghold a good PvP game mode, it needs to encourage players fighting other players. This will require significant changes to the mode.

@ the two-way lane MOBA crowd:ANet actually tried two-way lanes during stronghold internal development. They found that the game was too stagnate - a team would push a lane forward, but defender advantage would stall it and push the conflict back to the middle again.

I always loved to go in with some guildies and hold the enemy team hostage for 15 minutes and then to win by points