Introduce a tutorial on breakbars in the starter instance.

I'm quite simply tired of getting the "we didn't know what to do" excuse on breakbars, it's been years since they've been introduced but apparently players will only figure out what to do if you force them to learn through a tutorial. So teach them, they won't listen to other players unless we're extremely rude to them to get their attention. then they complain about people being rude to them, and that only gets the ones who are kind of not paying attention to chat unless you yell at them, there's others that don't pay attention to chat whatsoever.

Isn't it strange? Whenever there's a break bar to break people don't know what to do but in situations where it's advantageous not to do it they start spamming their CCs as if their lives depend on it.

The starter instance wouldn’t be a good place for it as you only have skill one autoattack and heal.

It’s best to remember also that the starter instance has players that have never played an mmo before. They are still learning how to move around and attack things. What to do with breakbars is to much information and should be a tutorial on a higher level map.

@"Devildoc.6721" said:I'm quite simply tired of getting the "we didn't know what to do" excuse on breakbars,It's not an excuse. People who don't know something don't know that it's important. It's obvious to you; it's completely opaque to others.

it's been years since they've been introducedOnly for veterans. The whole game is new to new players.

but apparently players will only figure out what to do if you force them to learn through a tutorial.

In fact, a lot of people do not learn through tutorials. Especially if too much is introduced too soon. People tend to try to brute force through long tutorials just to get to the good stuff.

ANet had the right idea with the so-called New Player Experience, by dividing information into more manageable chunks. (The implementation leaves something to be desired, e.g the Old Veteran Experience was diminished and there are some obvious gaps, e.g. defiance, among other mechanics.)

they won't listen to other players unless we're extremely rude to them to get their attentionBeing rude barely works on law school students, fresh inductees to the armed services, and kids in middle school. Being rude to strangers is just going to increase the chance that they stop paying attention to anyone, rude or otherwise.

If it bugs you so much that people who know less... know less, stick to content that requires everyone to know more, e.g. Fractal CM and Raids. Stay away from PUGs.

If you honestly want to improve the situation, then take the time to patiently explain what works before events start up, so that people have time to adjust. Group events in this game don't need everyone to know what to do, just a critical mass, usually a small fraction of the total.

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:The starter instance wouldn’t be a good place for it as you only have skill one autoattack and heal.

It’s best to remember also that the starter instance has players that have never played an mmo before. They are still learning how to move around and attack things. What to do with breakbars is to much information and should be a tutorial on a higher level map.

Probably would be a good idea to add it to the Arah missions though, a few of them have champions still if i recall and all of those have breakbars which honestly if you break them(doesnt take much) they melt super fast.

@Dante.1763 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:The starter instance wouldn’t be a good place for it as you only have skill one autoattack and heal.

It’s best to remember also that the starter instance has players that have never played an mmo before. They are still learning how to move around and attack things. What to do with breakbars is to much information and should be a tutorial on a higher level map.

I would prefer an NPC on each level 60 map with a mob that has a breakbar. The NPC can call out to players and explain what to do. The mob will be invulnerable to damage as long as its breakbar is intact. Breaking the breakbar kills or downs the mob and gives a small reward the first time its done but can be repeated as many times as the player wants.

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:The starter instance wouldn’t be a good place for it as you only have skill one autoattack and heal.

It’s best to remember also that the starter instance has players that have never played an mmo before. They are still learning how to move around and attack things. What to do with breakbars is to much information and should be a tutorial on a higher level map.

That wouldnt be bad either honestly!

@"Tails.9372" said:Isn't it strange? Whenever there's a break bar to break people don't know what to do but in situations where it's advantageous not to do it they start spamming their CCs as if their lives depend on it.

Yeah the TWO possible times it's not advantageous to spam CC's during a breakbar the pugs always break through it too fast.. but when you want them to they fail every single time and I think "why do I even bother bringing 5 hard CC's myself, nobody else is even going to use any"

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:The starter instance wouldn’t be a good place for it as you only have skill one autoattack and heal.

It’s best to remember also that the starter instance has players that have never played an mmo before. They are still learning how to move around and attack things. What to do with breakbars is to much information and should be a tutorial on a higher level map.

For what it's worth, the pearls near the circus in the Ring of Fire can only be opened by breaking defiance (pretty clever I though). Unfortunately, you don't progress the heart more quickly by doing this than you can by killing foes, so there's little incentive to learn it.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

If you honestly want to improve the situation, then take the time to patiently explain what works before events start up, so that people have time to adjust. Group events in this game don't need everyone to know what to do, just a critical mass, usually a small fraction of the total.

People try, the horde of zombie 111111 spammers don't listen. You yell at them and curse them out, a few finally snap out of it and listen, but the bulk majority just ignore chat altogether.

Most people don't know how to play the game properly because the game is simply too easy, it is as simple that. The vast majority of content can be finished by spamming 1 on your keyboard. I don't think the issue is going to be resolved by a tutorial whatsover. People don't have an incentive to learn.

As long as GW2 won't have moderately challenging content here and there, people will most likely never bother to learn. And I don't think GW2 is the type of game that can support challenging content ''here and there' because whenever anything has been remotly hard in past LS episodes, forums usually get flooded with ''I don't have time to play this, Anet promised us a fun experience in their manifesto video but this is just fraustrating''.

This has been an issue for Anet for years. Balancing it out between making the endgame slightly challenging and at the same time appeasing the large of amount of players who simply don't like ''fraustrating content''.

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:The starter instance wouldn’t be a good place for it as you only have skill one autoattack and heal.

It’s best to remember also that the starter instance has players that have never played an mmo before. They are still learning how to move around and attack things. What to do with breakbars is to much information and should be a tutorial on a higher level map.

Yeah something like that.. or maybe even the first time you enter PoF or HoT or high level central tyria maps you go into a story instance that has a mob with a breakbar explaining how to deal with them and you can't zone into any of the maps unless you can break the breakbar Something simple 2 CC's to get through it. Just so they know it takes more than 1.

At the same time they can teach them about environmental weapons too. No class starts with a CC at level 1, so they have to put rocks or bones in the instance for people to pick up and use.

@Devildoc.6721 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

If you honestly want to improve the situation, then take the time to patiently explain what works

before

events start up, so that people have time to adjust. Group events in this game don't need

everyone

to know what to do, just a critical mass, usually a small fraction of the total.

Yelling and cursing isn't trying to help. It's allowing oneself to be so frustrated that the lesson is completely forgotten, by everyone. I've always had success in taking the time to explain before the event, and especially if I mention specific skills people can/should use.

You can't wait for "third bite" in Dragon's Stand to tell people to "cc now." You have to start before people get out there, why waiting helps, how to identify (and ignore) the first & second bite, and what they need to do for the final. It's unreasonable to expect that people who don't already know what's supposed to happen are going to pay attention in the midst of what seems like chaos to them. They are less likely to be impressed with people going ALL CAPS are calling names. And even if they were reading chat, there's almost no chance that any of them could do anything differently at that moment.

Helping people takes time. People don't learn just because you type something; they need time to absorb and internalize the information so they can adapt.

It is a matter of visibility and UI, right now the BB is too plain, not intuitive at all. People learn to avoid AoE's because there's a big marker telling you that you need to dodge. Would be good if the breakbar was more attention-grabbing. Probably flashing perimeter when the breakbar phase is active, perhaps with a sound cue or big, bold text inside the bar that says "BREAK!". That way, players know they need to break the bar or risk defeat, doesn't matter if you're new to the game or a veteran attempting new content.

https://imgur.com/a/klR0rsj

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Devildoc.6721 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

If you honestly want to improve the situation, then take the time to patiently explain what works

before

events start up, so that people have time to adjust. Group events in this game don't need

everyone

to know what to do, just a critical mass, usually a small fraction of the total.

No, yelling and cursing someone out when they screw up after having not listened to you the first time you tried to politely explain is to get their attention, because sometimes that's what it takes. Do you think Boot Camp instructors yell and curse at recruits is out of frustration? No they do it because that grabs immediate attention and causes the person to listen.

Calm and polite is as far as I've experienced both in games and IRL, about as effective as leaving a pamphlet explaining things in a common area in view. Those who are genuinely interested in learning ahead of time will seek out sources of information and ask questions or read things like forums, wiki pages, and other sources of available information, that's the underwhelming minority of players. The majority of people expect to learn by doing, rather than having an explanation told to them ahead of time. Some of those, will respond to being yelled at as it grabs attention. Some it embarasses so they strive to do better to not be yelled at again., then some simply don't care and ignore everything. There is no reaching those people unless the game developers literally force it on them, which is what I'm asking.

Maybe, but im still of the opinion more crucial breakbars are incorrectly tuned. More often than not, breakbars seem beaten, you only have to go to gerent or mouth of mordy to see players do cc even when they arent advisable. Matriarch also appears to scale disproptionately and vnetooth just seems overtuned.

Then you have shatterer which less about equipped cc, but more about not understanding the timings ov f using mechanics such as gliding.

Im not saying training shouldnt exist, but i dnt think it is always as clear cut as not understanding a players skill bar

While I like the idea of a tutorial on it, I don't think it would work. Because there are so many different kinds of break bars, it would be impossible to explain them all in a tutorial in a way that could be remembered.

What's also needed is different-colored break bars, for the various different kinds.

@Daddicus.6128 said:While I like the idea of a tutorial on it, I don't think it would work. Because there are so many different kinds of break bars, it would be impossible to explain them all in a tutorial in a way that could be remembered.

What's also needed is different-colored break bars, for the various different kinds.

Different breakbars? Please tell me more.

Just add a door in every story instance that needs to be CC'd to open.

Some bars decline with chill. Others don't. Same with cripple, slow, and other conditions.

Some break bars regenerate over time. Others only regenerate after the are broken.

Some break bars, when broken, have an effect that weakens the monster. Others make them more powerful.

Some break bars require a high amount of breaking attacks, while others are relatively easy.

Etc.

@Daddicus.6128 said:Some bars decline with chill. Others don't. Same with cripple, slow, and other conditions.

Some break bars regenerate over time. Others only regenerate after the are broken.

Some break bars, when broken, have an effect that weakens the monster. Others make them more powerful.

Some break bars require a high amount of breaking attacks, while others are relatively easy.

Etc.

you have a few outliers, (i only know one OW boss that requires chill) but in generall they all work the same.

There's also a bunch of other problems with break bars: access to CC varies wildly across professions, and between weapons within them (and weapons that are good at CC usually do terrible damage, so players are probably not going to be using them if they even have them at all), soft CC barely even scratches the bar, and the scaling on them is always either too low or too high.

@"Devildoc.6721" said:I'm quite simply tired of getting the "we didn't know what to do" excuse on breakbars, it's been years since they've been introduced but apparently players will only figure out what to do if you force them to learn through a tutorial. So teach them, they won't listen to other players unless we're extremely rude to them to get their attention. then they complain about people being rude to them, and that only gets the ones who are kind of not paying attention to chat unless you yell at them, there's others that don't pay attention to chat whatsoever.

3 things are now guaranteed in life.. Death, Taxes and players whining about breakbars being broken to slowly or too fast.

Oh btw.. tutorials probably wont help, I mean those dodge tutorials are super informative.. yet I still see so many corpses inside red circles on whatever map/event I happen to be passing through :)

@"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:There's also a bunch of other problems with break bars: access to CC varies wildly across professions, and between weapons within them (and weapons that are good at CC usually do terrible damage, so players are probably not going to be using them if they even have them at all), soft CC barely even scratches the bar, and the scaling on them is always either too low or too high.

Considering a lot of these players are also wearing suboptimal gear like green power vitality toughness gear I don't think their dps difference will matter (especially 111111111111 rotations) , I usually consider most people in world bosses to be scaling up the boss more than their "dps" helps anyway.. I'd rather them be able to help with break bars at least.

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@"Devildoc.6721" said:I'm quite simply tired of getting the "we didn't know what to do" excuse on breakbars, it's been years since they've been introduced but apparently players will only figure out what to do if you force them to learn through a tutorial. So teach them, they won't listen to other players unless we're extremely rude to them to get their attention. then they complain about people being rude to them, and that only gets the ones who are kind of not paying attention to chat unless you yell at them, there's others that don't pay attention to chat whatsoever.

Saddly, sometimes you start taking damage before the red circle becomes visible, ive gotten killed several times by such things happening, especially during large events. Not everyone has the ability to see whats going around them in "real time" due to lag or even terrible computers, the former makes it hard to dodge due to lag, the latter makes it hard to see anything, or react in a timely manner.