Sun's Refuge underwhelming?

Being a feature that was heavily marketed for episode 4 i was expecting more of it. It is basically a hub for collection achievements, you do them once, you get a reward of questionable quality, maybe 1npc/item/building will show up after completing a collection and then you can safely abandon the refuge and never come back.So much focus was put on sun's refuge,yet there is nothing there that wants to make you keep coming back. If we compare it to WoW's Warlords of Draenor expansion and the Garrison feature you can see how it could have been implemented better. The Garrison offers dispatch missions for npc soldiers who will bring you back gold or item rewards,allows you to build crafting stations in a desired location,stables where you tame wild animals to turn them into rideable mounts,statues for decoration and quests to upgrade facilities that are more than simple collections you look up on dulfy because you cant bother with riddle hints when you have limited time to play. Overall i was pretty much anticipating Sun's Refuge but after i did all collections,got my chest and title i havent visited that place again. A lot of work seems to have been put into creating it,seeing how it uses so much space on the map but there is nothing worthwhile to do in there. At least the story part of this episode was enjoyable to me on a more positive note

Yeah. That was...... odd. They could have done so much more with it. They could have added the ability to change and build the way you can with Guild Halls and let people do what they want with it. But instead it’s just a minor collection hub which will be abandoned as they’ve said they have no future plans for it. I can’t help but feel they dropped the ball on this idea and didn’t think it through.

Maybe we'll get the odd npc or other addition here and there for it. It's definitely a fun feature, though it's true that it seems a bit odd that they don't intend to do anything with it really

I use it as a free teleport to Jahai Bluffs with my Spearmarshal's Plea. I just wish it had a bunch of merchants, a bank and some nodes to harvest each day.

Unless I missed something it wasn't hyped that much by Anet, they just mentioned that it was coming and it would be an instance you can build up. It was players who were talking about how it could be GW2's version of housing and discussing all their favourite housing features from other games which could be incorporated into Sun's Refuge.

I don't find it that exciting - I'm looking forward to doing the collections (haven't gotten around to them yet) but I can't see myself going back to it after they're done. But I didn't see anything from Anet which lead me to believe it would be anything else.

It would've been better as a home instance replacement. Having a content hub in a game without missions is pointless.

I belive it will come back, but only as a story instance, which will lead us into the next map (west).

Yeah I was a bit surprised at how little use it ended up having. I would actually go as far as to say that it wasn't worth the effort in my view. I understand game devs wanting to try out new things but this one just leaves me wondering why. Moreover I do not see the purpose of the location as an instance. Sure, it makes it easier to do the upgrading stages. but all in all, as described above the upgrading is not very meaningful.

I would've much preferred a hidden location that has a waypoint that you only can unlock via the story. The main point of it are some npc's and you don't need an instance for that. Also the fact that they've responded and said that they didn't have any follow on plans for it, makes it more of a question mark for me.

@Danikat.8537 said:Unless I missed something it wasn't hyped that much by Anet, they just mentioned that it was coming and it would be an instance you can build up. It was players who were talking about how it could be GW2's version of housing and discussing all their favourite housing features from other games which could be incorporated into Sun's Refuge.This! I didn't see Anet hyping it much, it was mostly players picking out that part of the anouncement and running wild with it.

Personally I'm having fun with the collections and the upgrading of the instance, and seeing it in different stages when entering the later story missions with different friends ;) . I'm a big fan of all kinds of fluff and fun in this game :D .

I could see it turning into a season headquarter similarly to how Rata Novus was Taimi's headquarter in season 3, and as such I appreciate the fact that I've got a hand in fleshing out that instance and being able to go there whenever I want (just like I love to go back to Tarir to visit Aurene and see all the souveniers I brought her ... which incidentally Taimi seems to have carried along to Sun's refuge, too).

I know I'm weird, but I actually play this game mainly to have fun, and that kind of fluff is much more fun to me than yet another daily harvesting node :P .

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@"Danikat.8537" said:Unless I missed something it wasn't hyped that much by Anet, they just mentioned that it was coming and it would be an instance you can build up. It was players who were talking about how it could be GW2's version of housing and discussing all their favourite housing features from other games which could be incorporated into Sun's Refuge.This! I didn't see Anet hyping it much, it was mostly players picking out that part of the anouncement and running wild with it.

Well then how about this?

But now we're raising the stakes and we're actually starting to release what we'd consider expansion-level features, alongside these things, when they come online, when they're ready.

We're not saving things for big expansions anymore. These things come online when they're ready and we're going to keep releasing them.Closely to this, we're obviously continuing our storyline, continuing to build our characters, releasing legendary weapons, we're still working on Fractals, and that's in addition to our content that we're working on for World vs. World.

And one other major thing that's coming up is coming with the next episode and it's called Sun's Refuge. This is a personal story instance that will upgrade over time, as the players are playing through Episode 4. The idea is that we're going back to an iconic Guild Wars location and players, through playing the storyline and playing through the open world, will find additional allies that they'll bring back to Sun's Refuge, they're gonna unlock additional horns, upgrade an additional armor set, and there's a ton of collection that will help build up the lore and overall help players understand where we're going moving forward.

This is from an interview with Mike Zadorojny. Link: https://www.shacknews.com/article/107195/guild-wars-2-sixth-birthday-interview-mike-zadorojny-talks-the-living-world

Forgive me, but that sort of language does set expectations.

Frankly, Sun's Refuge reminds me of the player's home bases in WoW that evolved through each expansion, only to be mostly abandoned when the next expansion came out. Right now, once all the achieves are done, I don't see much to keep people coming back there. But this just came out a few weeks ago, so I don't want to be too critical until we see where ANet goes with it. It's still new, so let's give it time.

I dunno, you can only repeat a piece of content so many times before it loses impact - and, unfortunately, some content can only be experienced the first time you play through it. if you've ever played a visual novel, you'll know what I mean - perhaps Sun's Refuge is intended to be like this?

Personally, I didn't really expect Sun's Refuge to be a new player hub for the reason that when we move onto the next episode, people who didn't log in for or buy episode 4 would be unable to complete the content/would experience something different to the people who played Episode 4 at launch. Since HoT, Anet seem to want a uniform experience for everyone, even if they were 6 months late to the party.

At least, that's my observation.

Where did they say that Sun's Refuge will be "abandoned" and only used as part of Episode 4? Maybe we'll get more updates to it in future episodes and make it a staging ground for future content? It has a separate portal scroll after all, they could add it on future releases.

@Gehenna.3625 said:And one other major thing that's coming up is coming with the next episode and it's called Sun's Refuge. This is a personal story instance that will upgrade over time, as the players are playing through Episode 4. The idea is that we're going back to an iconic Guild Wars location and players, through playing the storyline and playing through the open world, will find additional allies that they'll bring back to Sun's Refuge, they're gonna unlock additional horns, upgrade an additional armor set, and there's a ton of collection that will help build up the lore and overall help players understand where we're going moving forward.

Forgive me, but that sort of language does set expectations.Forgive me, but I still don't see how they promised/hyped anything beyond what they were saying. They delivered exactly what's described in that quote of yours, an instance that evolves while you play through the episode.

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:Sun's Refuge underwhelming?

At its current state, yes. But I expect more content to be added with upcoming episodes.

Sun's Refuge. Incredibly overhyped and underwhelming. After finishing all the collections, completely no reason to go there ever again. The divinity city pass remains far the better conivient 'base' for needed activities.

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@"Danikat.8537" said:Unless I missed something it wasn't hyped that much by Anet, they just mentioned that it was coming and it would be an instance you can build up. It was players who were talking about how it could be GW2's version of housing and discussing all their favourite housing features from other games which could be incorporated into Sun's Refuge.This! I didn't see Anet hyping it much, it was mostly players picking out that part of the anouncement and running wild with it.

But what kind of expectations does it set? He said we'll get an instance called Sun's Refuge which we can upgrade while playing through Episode 4 by completing collections to add new NPCs, upgrade an armour set and learn some more of the lore. Isn't that exactly what we've got?

He didn't say we'd keep going back to it during future episodes, or it would become a mission hub or mini-town or any of the other things the OP and other people seem to have been expecting. That's all come from people deciding it sounds similar to a system in another game they've played (not necessarily WoW, although that's one common example) and therefore it will be exactly the same and have all their favourite features from that game.

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Where did they say that Sun's Refuge will be "abandoned" and only used as part of Episode 4? Maybe we'll get more updates to it in future episodes and make it a staging ground for future content? It has a separate portal scroll after all, they could add it on future releases.

Here’s what I found. (Emphasis is mine)

Kirk Williford.2653 ArenaNet › September 18, 2018Sun's Refuge is an experiment that we've wanted to try for awhile. When we first decided on Jahai Bluffs as our open world map, we all agreed that now was the best time to see what we could build. Jahai Bluffs is an extremely dangerous region given recent events, and Sun's Refuge is our opportunity to explore side stories and learn more about the people who live in the area. A personalized hub that grows and reacts to your actions that we're able to launch tons of content tied to the episode from is one of the most unique elements of the episode, and one I'm extremely proud of. :)

We always love to try new things whenever we are able to, and employ what we've learned while looking to the future. We don't have any large scale plans to add to the instance after episode 4, but we are mulling over adding some light character moments.

So, maybe “some light character moments” but that’s only something being considered and no plans for anything beyond that.

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Where did they say that Sun's Refuge will be "abandoned" and only used as part of Episode 4? Maybe we'll get more updates to it in future episodes and make it a staging ground for future content? It has a separate portal scroll after all, they could add it on future releases.

Kirk Williford.2653 ArenaNet › September 18, 2018

Sun's Refuge is an experiment that we've wanted to try for awhile. When we first decided on Jahai Bluffs as our open world map, we all agreed that now was the best time to see what we could build. Jahai Bluffs is an extremely dangerous region given recent events, and Sun's Refuge is our opportunity to explore side stories and learn more about the people who live in the area. A personalized hub that grows and reacts to your actions that we're able to launch tons of content tied to the episode from is one of the most unique elements of the episode, and one I'm extremely proud of. :)

We always love to try new things whenever we are able to, and employ what we've learned while looking to the future.

We don't have any large scale plans to add to the instance after episode 4, but we are mulling over adding some light character moments.

That's really sad. It would've been an excellent opportunity to flesh it out more and give us more content inside in future episodes. Oh well

It seems a lot of ppl have missed the devs statement that thy don't plan to add anything meaningful to it.

Here's the thread with the dev post: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/55379/future-of-suns-refuge#latest

@LucianDK.8615 said:Sun's Refuge. Incredibly overhyped and underwhelming. After finishing all the collections, completely no reason to go there ever again. The divinity city pass remains far the better conivient 'base' for needed activities.

Well, yeah . . .

That's why some of the expectations for it were unreasonable. It wouldn't make sense for anet to release free-on-log-in content that replaced current gem store content. It would also be dangerous for them to make it so useful that players who were not live during ep four would feel forced to get it or play at a disadvantage . . .

That said, while I felt the content was fun I too would have liked to see more reason to go back to it, something between a home instance and a guild hall from a usefulness perspective . . .

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:Yeah. That was...... odd. They could have done so much more with it. They could have added the ability to change and build the way you can with Guild Halls and let people do what they want with it. But instead it’s just a minor collection hub which will be abandoned as they’ve said they have no future plans for it. I can’t help but feel they dropped the ball on this idea and didn’t think it through.

Im still hoping that more functions unlock with the next two options, but as far as now, it's just a room with nothing of use inside. NPCs for collections. And then what?Can't decorate it, can't place your home nodes in it, no activities besides the initial collections.So unless episode 5 and 6 add to the cavern, it's just a random room you'll never visit unless story instances force you

@Danikat.8537 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@Danikat.8537 said:Unless I missed something it wasn't hyped that much by Anet, they just mentioned that it was coming and it would be an instance you can build up. It was players who were talking about how it could be GW2's version of housing and discussing all their favourite housing features from other games which could be incorporated into Sun's Refuge.This! I didn't see Anet hyping it much, it was mostly players picking out that part of the anouncement and running wild with it.

To make it clear, I do not contest that some expectations of players like housing were rather wild and out of control, but I do contest that sunspear's refuge lives up to the language they used when introducing it. It's not a major thing and considering what it actually does, I think they could've used their resources better than to create this rather insignificant personal instance.

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:

And one

other

major thing that's coming up is coming with the next episode and it's called Sun's Refuge. This is a personal story instance that will upgrade over time,

as the players are playing through Episode 4

.

The idea is that we're going back to an iconic Guild Wars location and players, through playing the storyline and playing through the open world, will find additional allies that they'll bring back to Sun's Refuge, they're gonna unlock additional horns, upgrade an additional armor set, and there's a ton of collection that will help build up the lore and overall help players understand where we're going moving forward.

Forgive me, but that sort of language does set expectations.Forgive me, but I still don't see how they promised/hyped anything beyond what they were saying. They delivered exactly what's described in that quote of yours, an instance that evolves while you play through the episode.

They referred to it as something that normally would only be done in big expansions and as something major. I do not see how this delivers on either account, except maybe the programming effort, which I feel could've been used much better if that was the case.

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@"Danikat.8537" said:Unless I missed something it wasn't hyped that much by Anet, they just mentioned that it was coming and it would be an instance you can build up. It was players who were talking about how it could be GW2's version of housing and discussing all their favourite housing features from other games which could be incorporated into Sun's Refuge.This! I didn't see Anet hyping it much, it was mostly players picking out that part of the anouncement and running wild with it.

Nowhere in that article or that paragraph does Mike Z. say he is referring to Sun's Refuge about the 'expansion-level' content. In fact, he says 'one other major thing', so it's not Sun's Refuge.

What was interesting in that article, and I'm surprised no one has discussed it yet on the forums, is the new Mount coming. Then again, maybe it's best that it isn't so ArenaNet doesn't get accused of 'hyping it up too much'. :tongue: