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Best Renegade runes and sigil (all game modes)


Kidel.2057

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You may want to reconsider Sigil of bursting, its much weaker than you think.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_Bursting

Current in the description may be a misnomer. The percentage increase is applied to the base condition damage of the player prior to modifiers from effects and other sources, including traits and signets. Runes, infusions, and food do get converted.

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Is 4x nightmare + 2x trapper with bursting and malice really that good of a combo in general PvE/Fractals?

I'm using 6x balthazar with agony and smoldering right now but hearing about the combination mentioned above makes me wonder. Still, I hesitate to buy those and see the numbers for myself since I don't really wanna spend gold on something that might not work out in the end :/

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@Zin.6170 said:General PvE I like scholars in a duracell build. Though kind of boring just standing there with hammers spinning and auto attacking. Sure is hard to die though, have to go afk.

Well, isn't Herald better for that anyway thanks for the +2% damage for each boon (plus the boons) ?

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@Kidel.2057 said:

@Zin.6170 said:General PvE I like scholars in a duracell build. Though kind of boring just standing there with hammers spinning and auto attacking. Sure is hard to die though, have to go afk.

Well, isn't Herald better for that anyway thanks for the +2% damage for each boon (plus the boons) ?

The way the hammers interact with vindication means you are going to auto apply full might stacks, kallas fervor, and vicisous lacerations almost immediately. This pushes it a good amount ahead of herald if you are tooling around in open world.

Again though, it is boring. I find myself thinking trying to get as many mobs on me as possible and standing in aoe to see what happens. Usually I am OK unless it is a heavy condi circles, I guess that is what the staff is for.

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I did a dps test against raid golem using power herald vs power renegade (both Jalis/Shiro, S/A) and Herald does 2k more dps. Of course the golem is easy to flank anyway.

That was with full buffs. With no buffs and Glint, Herald is way stronger because of permanent 20 might and fury. With no buffs and Shiro (as the previous test) Herald is still ahead of about 1500 dps thanks to the F2 facet that gives 10% damage plus might and fury.

Of course that's 1 mob standing still. You can argue that it's better for group of mobs, but you lose group support and a nice healing skill. Again, I'm not comparing Power Herald to Condi Renegade, just the 2 power ones.

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@Kidel.2057 said:I did a dps test against raid golem using power herald vs power renegade (both Jalis/Shiro, S/A) and Herald does 2k more dps. Of course the golem is easy to flank anyway.

That was with full buffs. With no buffs and Glint, Herald is way stronger because of permanent 20 might and fury. With no buffs and Shiro (as the previous test) Herald is still ahead of about 1500 dps thanks to the F2 facet that gives 10% damage plus might and fury.

Of course that's 1 mob standing still. You can argue that it's better for group of mobs, but you lose group support and a nice healing skill. Again, I'm not comparing Power Herald to Condi Renegade, just the 2 power ones.

If this is in response to me, keep in mind I am talking about general PvE, which means world PvE. Renegade power duracell is better because you can just stay in Jalis and keep might stacked while enjoying the benefits of being super tanky and still doing good damage.

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@Kidel.2057 said:Let's have a civil discussion here. Almost 1 week after launch, what's the best rune+sigil set for Renegade?

Please specify the game mode (general PvE, Raid, Fractal, PvP, WvW).

I'd say 4x nightmare, 2x trapper runes are the best for renegade. As long as your torment isn't at 100% condition duration, expertise effects will always be better than condition damage. As for weapons, the shortbow sucks, so you'll either be running staff if you really need CC, or two sets of mace/axe. For sigils, you'll be running sigil of malice on both(10% condition duration), sigil of geomancy on one set(bleed on weapon swap, makes renegade traits a lot more useful), and sigil of hydromancy on the other set(gives chill, but in traits, chill also gives two stacks of torment). A legend swap lets you activate weapon swap sigils, and then you can get both weapon swap abilities off immediately, increasing maximum dps. If you EVER needed shortbow like a boss where you only need ranged, I'd run sigil of malice and sigil of Torment/Earth, still not sure which one is better.Edit: I actually just calculated it, and sigil of torment does ~1,157 in ~10 seconds, and sigil of earth does ~2670 in ~10 seconds and will keep rising much higher than torment over time. Even on a moving enemy, i think earth out damages torment. After extensive math, Smoldering only does 2.6k extra damage per rotation of all the burning skills, so earth is definitely the sigil to go for.

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@Kidel.2057 said:I did a dps test against raid golem using power herald vs power renegade (both Jalis/Shiro, S/A) and Herald does 2k more dps. Of course the golem is easy to flank anyway.

That was with full buffs. With no buffs and Glint, Herald is way stronger because of permanent 20 might and fury. With no buffs and Shiro (as the previous test) Herald is still ahead of about 1500 dps thanks to the F2 facet that gives 10% damage plus might and fury.

Of course that's 1 mob standing still. You can argue that it's better for group of mobs, but you lose group support and a nice healing skill. Again, I'm not comparing Power Herald to Condi Renegade, just the 2 power ones.

Where is Facet of Nature giving +10% damage? Perhaps you are counting in the elders force trait.

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@LucianDK.8615 said:

@Kidel.2057 said:I did a dps test against raid golem using power herald vs power renegade (both Jalis/Shiro, S/A) and Herald does 2k more dps. Of course the golem is easy to flank anyway.

That was with full buffs. With no buffs and Glint, Herald is way stronger because of permanent 20 might and fury. With no buffs and Shiro (as the previous test) Herald is still ahead of about 1500 dps thanks to the F2 facet that gives 10% damage plus might and fury.

Of course that's 1 mob standing still. You can argue that it's better for group of mobs, but you lose group support and a nice healing skill. Again, I'm not comparing Power Herald to Condi Renegade, just the 2 power ones.

Where is Facet of Nature giving +10% damage? Perhaps you are counting in the elders force trait.

Yes.

@Zin.6170 said:

@Kidel.2057 said:I did a dps test against raid golem using power herald vs power renegade (both Jalis/Shiro, S/A) and Herald does 2k more dps. Of course the golem is easy to flank anyway.

That was with full buffs. With no buffs and Glint, Herald is way stronger because of permanent 20 might and fury. With no buffs and Shiro (as the previous test) Herald is still ahead of about 1500 dps thanks to the F2 facet that gives 10% damage plus might and fury.

Of course that's 1 mob standing still. You can argue that it's better for group of mobs, but you lose group support and a nice healing skill. Again, I'm not comparing Power Herald to Condi Renegade, just the 2 power ones.

If this is in response to me, keep in mind I am talking about general PvE, which means world PvE. Renegade power duracell is better because you can just stay in Jalis and keep might stacked while enjoying the benefits of being super tanky and still doing good damage.

Yes, of course, that's why I specified "Of course that's 1 mob standing still. You can argue that it's better for group of mobs, but you lose group support and a nice healing skill".

@haventr.1630 said:

@Kidel.2057 said:Let's have a civil discussion here. Almost 1 week after launch, what's the best rune+sigil set for Renegade?

Please specify the game mode (general PvE, Raid, Fractal, PvP, WvW).

I'd say 4x nightmare, 2x trapper runes are the best for renegade. As long as your torment isn't at 100% condition duration, expertise effects will always be better than condition damage. As for weapons, the shortbow sucks, so you'll either be running staff if you really need CC, or two sets of mace/axe. For sigils, you'll be running sigil of malice on both(10% condition duration), sigil of geomancy on one set(bleed on weapon swap, makes renegade traits a lot more useful), and sigil of hydromancy on the other set(gives chill, but in traits, chill also gives two stacks of torment). A legend swap lets you activate weapon swap sigils, and then you can get both weapon swap abilities off immediately, increasing maximum dps. If you EVER needed shortbow like a boss where you only need ranged, I'd run sigil of malice and sigil of Torment/Earth, still not sure which one is better.Edit: I actually just calculated it, and sigil of torment does ~1,157 in ~10 seconds, and sigil of earth does ~2670 in ~10 seconds and will keep rising much higher than torment over time. Even on a moving enemy, i think earth out damages torment. Don't waste your 10 gold, get sigil of earth.

Thanks for your work, that's very helpful.Of course 4x nightmare +2x trapper is currently the best option. What would you advise as a cheap or temporary alternative?Rune of the Krait seems nice, with more Torment every 30s and a lot of bleeding duration and additional bleeding.Rune of Tormenting also seems nice if you don't plan on using SB.

What about Rune of the Berserker or Rune of the Renegade?

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@Kidel.2057 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@Kidel.2057 said:I did a dps test against raid golem using power herald vs power renegade (both Jalis/Shiro, S/A) and Herald does 2k more dps. Of course the golem is easy to flank anyway.

That was with full buffs. With no buffs and Glint, Herald is way stronger because of permanent 20 might and fury. With no buffs and Shiro (as the previous test) Herald is still ahead of about 1500 dps thanks to the F2 facet that gives 10% damage plus might and fury.

Of course that's 1 mob standing still. You can argue that it's better for group of mobs, but you lose group support and a nice healing skill. Again, I'm not comparing Power Herald to Condi Renegade, just the 2 power ones.

Where is Facet of Nature giving +10% damage? Perhaps you are counting in the elders force trait.

Yes.

@Zin.6170 said:

@Kidel.2057 said:I did a dps test against raid golem using power herald vs power renegade (both Jalis/Shiro, S/A) and Herald does 2k more dps. Of course the golem is easy to flank anyway.

That was with full buffs. With no buffs and Glint, Herald is way stronger because of permanent 20 might and fury. With no buffs and Shiro (as the previous test) Herald is still ahead of about 1500 dps thanks to the F2 facet that gives 10% damage plus might and fury.

Of course that's 1 mob standing still. You can argue that it's better for group of mobs, but you lose group support and a nice healing skill. Again, I'm not comparing Power Herald to Condi Renegade, just the 2 power ones.

If this is in response to me, keep in mind I am talking about general PvE, which means world PvE. Renegade power duracell is better because you can just stay in Jalis and keep might stacked while enjoying the benefits of being super tanky and still doing good damage.

Yes, of course, that's why I specified "Of course that's 1 mob standing still. You can argue that it's better for group of mobs, but you lose group support and a nice healing skill".

@haventr.1630 said:

@Kidel.2057 said:Let's have a civil discussion here. Almost 1 week after launch, what's the best rune+sigil set for Renegade?

Please specify the game mode (general PvE, Raid, Fractal, PvP, WvW).

I'd say 4x nightmare, 2x trapper runes are the best for renegade. As long as your torment isn't at 100% condition duration, expertise effects will always be better than condition damage. As for weapons, the shortbow sucks, so you'll either be running staff if you really need CC, or two sets of mace/axe. For sigils, you'll be running sigil of malice on both(10% condition duration), sigil of geomancy on one set(bleed on weapon swap, makes renegade traits a lot more useful), and sigil of hydromancy on the other set(gives chill, but in traits, chill also gives two stacks of torment). A legend swap lets you activate weapon swap sigils, and then you can get both weapon swap abilities off immediately, increasing maximum dps. If you EVER needed shortbow like a boss where you only need ranged, I'd run sigil of malice and sigil of Torment/Earth, still not sure which one is better.Edit: I actually just calculated it, and sigil of torment does ~1,157 in ~10 seconds, and sigil of earth does ~2670 in ~10 seconds and will keep rising much higher than torment over time. Even on a moving enemy, i think earth out damages torment. Don't waste your 10 gold, get sigil of earth.

Thanks for your work, that's very helpful.Of course 4x nightmare +2x trapper is currently the best option. What would you advise as a cheap or temporary alternative?Rune of the Krait seems nice, with more Torment every 30s and a lot of bleeding duration and additional bleeding.Rune of Tormenting also seems nice if you don't plan on using SB.

What about Rune of the Berserker or Rune of the Renegade?

Condition duration is irreplaceable, nightmare and trapper runes are actually super cheap, just need to do TA and have a 400 level crafting discipline for trapper runes

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@Kidel.2057 said:

Of course 4x nightmare +2x trapper is currently the best option. What would you advise as a cheap or temporary alternative?

If you can't/don't want to do TA for whatever reason, 4x Tempest runes gives the same condition duration as 4x Nightmare, but only has a +all stats bonus instead of the +condition damage. It's a relatively minor difference (you lose about 55 condition damage), and if you aren't min-maxing every last point, probably barely noticeable as condition damage is still one of the stats it gives (+20 along with extra power, precision and ferocity and the rest).

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@Kidel.2057 said:

@Set.7461 said:Mad King while using Kalla's elite.

what game mode? I assume PvE, but I'm asking just to be clear.

It's still way early for meta to settle down but I've been having ok success in small scale roaming and duels. I've since switched runes but with Mad King, all of the right skillbar minus Razorclaw heals. Keep in mind, I'm running sigil of Draining and there's no ICD. With that, Darkrazor gives me some burst lifesteal, and I only keep Soulcleave up long enough for the birds to finish attacking. I've replaced it due to the stealth nerf which is pretty shitty on ANET's part. A proc on 3 targets(max) have shot my health back up from ~0-100. It's pretty insane.

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@Set.7461 said:

@Kidel.2057 said:

@Set.7461 said:Mad King while using Kalla's elite.

what game mode? I assume PvE, but I'm asking just to be clear.

It's still way early for meta to settle down but I've been having ok success in small scale roaming and duels. I've since switched runes but with Mad King, all of the right skillbar minus Razorclaw heals. Keep in mind, I'm running sigil of Draining and there's no ICD. With that, Darkrazor gives me some burst lifesteal, and I only keep Soulcleave up long enough for the birds to finish attacking. I've replaced it due to the stealth nerf which is pretty kitten on ANET's part. A proc on 3 targets(max) have shot my health back up from ~0-100. It's pretty insane.

seems nice. Would you mind sharing the build?

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http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAV8nnXMvNSum7JRZzVlst5rSY3cWJ4besklNlKdD+gR4fHHylsNAKgHA-jFyHQBjZ/hAcEAGoyv4dRAUk6PZUJIAeAAjT3QAgDgxHPxLew4jP+4jPeFf8iPexHf8xDA-w

For duels/very small scale, I'll swap heartpiercer for All For One. In order to get the protection from AFO, you need be in the radius when you drop the summon.

Yes, I know I took swd over axe. Mace(and SB) has no defense and that nice long evade from swd3 can save you. Although they do nice condi-dmg, the mace skills are hard to land on players. Swd2 procs torment with Abyssal Chill and is nice for poking. I didn't go for Mallyx because it's terrible for small scale. The resistance from Pain Absorption is nice but you can avoid all of that shuffling Shiro's Riposting Shadows, and dodges which suits my active playstyle.

The way I play with this build is to poke with SB to gain energy. Scorchrazor > Spiritcrusher. I mainly swap to swd/axe and use Darkrazor and Icerazor for defense when I get pressured. Icerazor is surprisingly better due to the amount of hits you can land. The x20 hit from Icerazor works out to an extra ~1k dmg/hp(at best) with Devastation's Focused Siphoning and its likely that you'll land most of them if you stack Darkrazor and Icerazor.

Dropping Invocation was easier than I thought. I usually take it for the stunbreak but I found I always Riposting Shadows afterwards(or dodge). Switching from Shiro, Darkrazor's stunbreak on the other hand is good because it "counters" most classes' stun into burst combo. It's also good at ripping stability.

For larger scale, I would use sigil of Frenzy on SB over energy and take heartpiercer. This is my "Vampire Build" that I'm shelving for now. The burst from toggling Soulcleave(Mad King, Diabolical Inferno, Focused Siphoning) was real and it's noticeably weaker since the stealth-nerf.

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@LucianDK.8615 said:You may want to reconsider Sigil of bursting, its much weaker than you think.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_Bursting

Current in the description may be a misnomer. The percentage increase is applied to the base condition damage of the player prior to modifiers from effects and other sources, including traits and signets. Runes, infusions, and food do get converted.

Any suggestion what to pick instead of it??

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