Condi Rev - Mallyx Change for PvP

With the amount of daze/stun in the game, dropping an Unyielding Anguish in a match is more likely to miss than hit. If the leap included an evade frame, it would really help bring condi rev up a bit.

You already have a lack of stability, and subpar stun breaks (even with invo), so I don't think this change would break anything or make it OP.

Pain Absorption could use a 5-10 energy decrease as well or just in general.

None of this would make it any worse to fight than scourge (or anything else for that matter), but some decent quality of life changes. Might even make another viable condi build in the mix! :open_mouth:

-Rev of Boa

I have given up on condi rev long time ago. It just sucks. Weak damage, meh sustainability and extremely susiptible to boon corruption. And with removal of enhanced balwark (additional stability stack) it was like kicking a dead horse.

I should probably give it up, but I enjoy playing it more than anything else. I'm really over the loss of stab now that I'm on invo. It's definitely a lot easier to get locked down and killed if you are playing bruiser playstyle like I do, but overall I've adjusted.

I know if it can get these couple of changes though, I could actually compete.

-Rev of Boa

@Healingz R Us.7240 said:If the leap included an evade frame, it would really help bring condi rev up a bit.

Solid change that would help condi rev's defensive capabilities a lot. I'm also in favor of lowering pain absorption by 5 energy.

But yes you definitely have to enjoy a challenge and not give up easily if you want to play condi rev.

@WraithOfStealth.1624 said:

@Healingz R Us.7240 said:If the leap included an evade frame, it would really help bring condi rev up a bit.

5 energy would probably be fair, and honestly what I would like even more is for them to lower the cast time to 0.25 seconds. Having an expensive stunbreak with a cast time sucks kitten when you can't even get the reward for the energy expenditure. Instant cast would be a dream, but probably asking for too much.

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

@WraithOfStealth.1624 said:

@Healingz R Us.7240 said:If the leap included an evade frame, it would really help bring condi rev up a bit.

Absolutely agree. The cast time is a problem. I sometimes find myself having to just use it for the stun break and dodge out before the cast time is even complete. Almost a waste of 30 energy, which is a huge deal.

There are plenty of stun breaks that have multiple uses for other professions that are instant. PA doesn't even compare.

Oh hey, I have been trying it out lately and it's quite baffling how many oversights Mallyx has as a whole.

Really would need some sort of defensive off hand as well so that something else than Staff be viable, swords actually pretty decent, sword axe as well, but Mace is totally a no go without Heralds shield which is a bummer and when you want to go with Shortbow, you are almost forced to use Staff, but absolutely must use Sword as a main hand otherwise. Sword Axe + Mace Sword can be also interesting, but there really needs to be some sustain skills on the off-hand to make it work, like bringing back Duelist's Preparation, actually posted a topic about that not long ago. There's just not enough weapons to justify the lack of it, they had it right before, although I'm happy with the new Death Strike, the old one was too clunky.

I can see where they are comming from with Pain Absorption, in team fights it's actually decent but in solo? As said, almost necessary to actually evade and waste the skill as a whole. Either make the cast instant, or reduce the cost.

Unyielding Anguish is a weird one, do you think they'd be okay with having two legends at once that can provide evade frames? I'd be honestly in favor of reducing the energy cost of it at 25 or nearly 20 rather than having evade frames, there's no reason why it should have the same cost as Riposting Shadows when the damage is mediocre and self benefits are awful at best, Scourges have it so much easier, I don't see why it would be bad for a Revenant to get slightly closer to the spam of it. While it actually removes no conditions since resistance is applied after and not on skill press, Mallyx do deserve some of that Mobility anyway, you're always screwed most of the time when you swap to it, it's not like they won't be able to catch up to you? Considering how Superior Riposting Shadows still is at the end of the day with not only removing soft CC's but as well of getting endurance while you're most likely not too far away from people catching up to you. Doesn't seem unfair to me.

Lastly, I still think resistance should either be increased by a second on cast when traited, or nerf the cooldown/remove altogether. While it seems OP to just grant yourself resistance on every skill use, I think it's the otherway around considering how Mallyx is supposed to feed and return conditions while it can hardly achieve that because the benefits and window of events are so tightly packed that you barely have a chance to do anything before getting bombarded with conditions again.

Unpopular opinion off topic, all cleansing skills/utilities should grant a new boon that reduce condition damage like protection anyway to highly punish pure condition builds with no power, resistance would cause too much controversy with a bunch of skills like Berserker Stance anyway. This Mirage meta is cheesy to deal with, not impossible, but really cheesy. They really need to come up with a solution that punishes spam, other than returning 20 stacks of confusion and Torment which not all professions can do, but Mallyx Herald does it funnily.

Tbh, I really wish Anet would see this, Revenant is so much fun yet they don't really seem to care that much about it.

Truf... No skill in the game is more deserving of an i-frame than Unyielding Anguish. Especially because of how it's one of the only skills in the game where if you get interrupted, it turns into a straight hard-cc, because you get knocked down... Which, I mean yes, makes sense from a "if you think about it" standpoint, but is a terrible imbalance in actual gameplay. :confounded:

I do agree that UA is a good candidate for an i-frame. Alternatively, it would be cool to turn it into a two-part skill:1. Place the current UA field. You no longer leap to it. 600 range. 20 energy. 1/2 second cast time.

2. Shadowstep to the currently active UA field. Once activated, can place another field. 900 range. 10 energy. 1/4 second cast time.

At the end, you still have to expend just as much energy (and an equal cast time) to get the distance and the field, and you still have the option of spamming it, but with this version, you also:-Can use the skill from a distance, making it much more potent at applying mid-range pressure.-Have better control of your energy usage. If you do not wish to teleport, you can conserve 10 energy. If you want to spam it, you'll still have to teleport.-Can shadowstep from 900 range. The field has a max 600 range, so this cannot be used to increase travel distance, but it allows for better mobility and control while nearby the field. Good juking potential.-Can be used as z-axis mobility. This would be a great buff for PvP.

I have been trying to play it condi rev again with the new trait, Demonic Resistance. And... it looks impressive in theory. I can see what Anet was thinking. These condi rev boys can use Condi/toughness/precision amulet. Now they have 20k HP and 3.2k toughness. They jump in, pop Embrace the Darkness and helalauia.

Needless to say that does not work. Not even remotely. And, condi rev has fundamental issues in both applying damage and how easy to look them down. UA is a perfect example of what does not work. A skill that has some major risks that was designed that way since it used to deal strong damage. The damage has been quite nerfed yet the skill still suffers from major drawbacks. And with almost no access to stability mace is a really terrible weapon in PvP and yet the only useable condi weapon in PvP.

Condi rev, as a whole, has major fundamental issues that go way beyond some trims or buffs.

I totally agree. Small evade on Uyielding Anguish would definitely help condi Rev without breaking the game. Same with Pain Absorption - since it's a cast stunbreak with no evade etc, it could use lesser energy cost.

Won't ever work. I did play the first 50 matches of Season 13 as a condi Renegade, with Shiro + Mallyx, sb/staff. Staff was mandatory to survive. Your damage ramp up is slow and you need to stay in Shiro most of the time just to survive. The weapons which provide the best condi damage give you 0 defense, and despite the Carrion stats you can be deleted in seconds if you are out of Shiro or lack the staff at the moment. Then you can theorize to use condi stats with other weapons, which ends in a hybrid build which plays like power Heralds... while doing less damage and having less sustain. Swapped to power Herald and the thinks went way better until the bug with the legends, then changed to Guard

Condi Rev is a lost cause for anything competitive. Burn guard, which is a one trick pony, is x10 better and still isn't a very advisable build to run; condi Rev/Herald/Renegade is just hopeless.