My Honest Review On The Mesmer Changes — Guild Wars 2 Forums

My Honest Review On The Mesmer Changes

Trigr.6481Trigr.6481 Member ✭✭✭
edited October 3, 2018 in Mesmer

Illusionary Inspiration: This trait now causes mesmers to heal all nearby allies whenever they summon an illusion. Competitive-mode healing effectiveness is 50% of PvE.

The problem with this is that it looks good on paper, however in order for this to be really effective the amount of sustain clone generation is limited. So I'm not quite sure how this is going to play out long term, not to mention the fact that it wipes boon share on phantasm use off the map, which has more effect on pve than pvp. Also the fact that even with menders each clone only heals for 306, which isn't much in the grand scheme of things, esp for a grandmaster trait.

**Confounding Suggestions: **This trait no longer converts dazes into stuns. It now increases daze duration by 50% and stun duration by 25%. It is no longer split between game modes.

I can see the intention behind this change, however the implementation couldn't have been worse. If I had to guess, mantra of distraction was probably the biggest offender on this list of why they set their sights on confounding suggestions, however instead of going after the source "mantra of distraction", and redesigning you instead go after a trait and unintentionally nerf builds in collateral that were already in a good spot from a design standpoint. So now mirage thrust is nerfed, counter blade on off hand sword 4 is nerfed, the second bounce of magic bullet is nerfed, chaos storm is nerfed, and so on. I mean if anything why not just give the mantra of distraction apply immob instead of daze and then revert confounding suggestions? That way everyone wins, mantra of distraction is still pretty lethal, and the mantra and confounding don't interact with each other anymore, everyone wins.

Temporal Enchanter: This trait has been removed from the game.

I don't think too many people are going to be arguing over this change, popping portal was kinda a silly use to get resistance, the only viable glamour that gave you resistance imo was null field. It either to be scrapped or redesigned, they chose scrapped. Although I could see this having bigger impacts on wvw than spvp

Blurred Inscriptions: This trait has been moved to the Inspiration specialization at the Grandmaster tier to replace Temporal Enchanter. Its functionality has been updated. It now grants distortion when using signets and gives all signets improved functionality when active:

I'm torn about all of it, the moving the skill to traitlines, and the tweaking each signet, but my biggest question is why take away the signet cooldown reduction? That's a pretty big nerf, for a now grandmaster trait you should of kept the cooldown reduction back in there, but that's just me.

Signet of the Ether: Grants increased healing.

So with no healing power you're getting a extra 1000 healing, but now a 30 second cooldown instead of 24. That honestly isn't worth it, it would be if the cd reduction was post patch.

Signet of Domination: Strips 5 boons. For a now 45 second cd signet without the cd reduction this needs to be unblockable for it to be viable, and to compete with arcane thievery on a much shorter cooldown, that's unblockable without traiting into a grandmaster.

Signet of Illusions: Summons 1 clone.

1 clone for a 60 second cooldown signet? Really? If anything it should give you three for a minute cd ability.

Signet of Inspiration: Hits 10 targets instead of 5 targets.

This is a wvw pve change that will never mean anything in spvp, great I guess?

Signet of Humility: Applies 10 stacks of vulnerability.

This just seems like you guys ran out of ideas, vuln? For a 180cd? Let it kitten immob the target or something, jesus.

Signet of Midnight: Cures 5 conditions from the player.

This is actually a good buff to signet of midnight, 1 out of 6 ain't bad, but you gotta pump those numbers up , those a rookie numbers.

Egotism: This is a new Master tier Domination trait that replaces the slot left open by Blurred Inscriptions. It increases outgoing damage by 10% against foes with lower health than the mesmer. This trait is now split between modes and increases damage by 5% in PvP and WvW.

No sane person on the planet would ever choose a measly 5% damage boost when it's up against shattered concentration. And I'm not asking to for you just up the damage, I'm asking you to make it comparable in terms of utility to shattered concentration, in whatever way shape or form that could be. I'm willing to give ideas in due time if you actually decide to go this route.

And the best for last.

Elusive Mind: The exhaustion duration of this trait is now split between game modes and has a 6-second duration in PvP and WvW.

What can I say about this? It seems that the vocal minority forums warriors have nerfed this trait, again. At this point I honestly wouldn't be sure as what's better, a 6 second icd to elusive mind or 6 seconds of exhaustion would be worse, I'm actually leaning towards an icd because atleast then we can still dodge while stunned just without breaking the cc when elusive mind is on cooldown, with this we are literally left with nothing. Even if they do change it to a 6 second icd, an easy way of showing when elusive mind is back up is to just just change the dodge bar color from orange to blue when it's ready. Not to mention the fact that by also doing this, you're also nerfing the condition clear as well with this, which is twice as bad. So yeah, I'd honestly rather see a 6 second icd than this. You effectively gutted the trait.

Thanks for reading

Countless

<1

Comments

  • Noha.3749Noha.3749 Member ✭✭✭

    Powermirage will still be strong. "Same" amount of damage, but no stun through daze.
    Elusive Mind will be replaced by IH, which is arguably stronger in alot of situations.

    Supportchrono got slapped a bit, now you need 2 in raids/WvW to make up for the changes.

    With the new coming IH Meta people will start complaining about getting bombed with vulnerability and harder to spot the "real" mesmer.
    IH will increase the damage output through more vuln. Mirages can still dodge when stunned to not get damaged, it just wont stunbreak.

    Hybrid and Condimirages will be more common again, making people cry about that aswell.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I suspect mirage thrust was also in ArenaNet's sights with the confounding suggestions change. In the long run, I could see that being something that makes dazes from mesmers easier to balance overall: in its old form, every daze that mesmers could produce needs to be balanced according to the possibility that it will be a stun instead.

    Your suggestion for changing Mantra of Distraction is a case in point. MoD isn't supposed to be an immobilise. It's an interrupt, one of the last remaining vestiges of the GW1 mesmer's style of interrupts. If it doesn't stop someone from doing what they're trying to do, it's not doing what it's supposed to do.

    Confounding Suggestions, however, turned an interrupt into a complete halt which has a high chance of being fatal if performed well. But it's not supposed to be an immobilise. It's supposed to be an interrupt.

    In the case of Elusive Mind... I've gotta say, this feels like a boonsmiting to me. They don't know what to do with it, so they're making darned sure it's not worth taking until they do come up with something.

  • jportell.2197jportell.2197 Member ✭✭✭

    My thoughts on the changes.

    Temporal enchanter- now makes this THE ONLY skill type without a corresponding trait. Maybe in a future patch?

    Illusionary Inspiration- Scaling with healing power needs to be massively increased to be worth a kitten in PvP.

    Blurred Inscriptions- The only signet that makes this trait viable for PvP is Signet of Midnight. Without a corresponding recharge reduction all of the other actives are meaningless especially since distortion prevents capture contribution.
    Mesmers have other ways of dealing with condis that, including arcane thievery which is a shorter CD and transfers condis not just remove. Still no reason to take inspiration really.

    Confounding Suggestions- I wonder if power mesmer will still take it. I imagine rending shatter with MW does 20% more damage will now be taken. We'll see I guess. Power was still kind of a one hit wonder.

    Egotism- Lol they are prolly gonna Nerf shattered concentration trait to force people to take this. Or they could maybe do something with the useless Furious interruption trait. 🤷🤷🤷

    Elusive Mind- I didn't take it before. kitten sure won't take it now. How long before people are moaning about Infinite horizon.

    Edit: I remember them saying this was gonna be a patch mostly about weapon traits, none of the mesmer weapon traits were touched. Troll level 100 Anet.

  • Nebilim.5127Nebilim.5127 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Core Mes doesn't need any nerfing but Mirage deserved every single bit of nerfing that it has received. Hands down, no argument behind it.

    There is still a lot of ground to cover like mobility and sustain. While i'm happy that EM isn't so oppressive anymore, they still haven't looked at core issue of mirage. Being able to dodge through stunning without EM is really kitten and there is 0 counterplay to that, that's 2 semi stunbreaks every 10 seconds. In matter of fact, with current EM, i would prefer to run this way, there is very few long lasting stuns in the game to not just be able to dodge anyway. Every single other class gets punished for having their class mechanic CC. Druids lose CA uptime, warrs lose their burst bar, necros lose life force. What does mirages lose when cc? Dodge bar? lol

    They need to also gut sword ambush 2 mobility. Reduce range by half and be targetted only. You shouldn't be allowed to have more mobility than thieves while being on a S tier weapon. Remember ride the lightning? I remember.

  • Airdive.2613Airdive.2613 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nebilim.5127 said:
    Druids lose CA uptime, warrs lose their burst bar, necros lose life force. What does mirages lose when cc? Dodge bar? lol

    1. It's not really "lol" seeing as they won't be able to dodge after the stun ends (no endurance left), so it still counts.
    2. Endurance is their special mechanic indeed seeing as they're going to be short on free (protected) casts and ambush skills after the stun ends.

    The opportunity cost for the mirage is already there, you just need to learn to think a bit differently.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Airdive is correct. Less endurance for mirage also means less damage potential because they rely on their ambushes to do stuff. Ofc they can get Ambushes from Distortion as well but it still counts, and that forces a trait choice on the master tier. But also if they want Distortion from Signets, they'll have to go Inspiration which is not optimal. So, what I'm seeing here is more tough choices for Mesmer/Mirage. There are nerfs here for both prevalent builds which I'm happy about. I don't think it's quite enough yet but we'll see.

  • Nebilim.5127Nebilim.5127 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2018

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @Nebilim.5127 said:
    Druids lose CA uptime, warrs lose their burst bar, necros lose life force. What does mirages lose when cc? Dodge bar? lol

    1. It's not really "lol" seeing as they won't be able to dodge after the stun ends (no endurance left), so it still counts.

    You also need to understand that the mirage is effectively not being punished for missing a dodge against a cc. Sure they lose their ambush but it is way better than getting their kitten bursted and killed like every other class that needs to sacrifice a slot for a stunbreak AND a dodge for the burst, that's not mentioning that endurance is much easier to build class mechanic than the other ones. They have basically 2 opportunity as is, they can dodge the cc and attack at same time or fail the dodge and avoid getting punished/killed, thus making the opponent miss their burst and blow cooldowns off. The advantages are way better than the "disadvantage" that is so easily mitigated by a million things that build endurance. Imagine a sigil that gives necros half bar of life force or druids CA or even warriors burst.

  • If Im not wrong, sigil of humility turns you into moa... So you wanted the sigil to, in addition to removing all the possible defences other than dodges, get immob to remove it too? Lol

  • Tiah.3091Tiah.3091 Member ✭✭✭

    @Noha.3749 said:
    Powermirage will still be strong. "Same" amount of damage, but no stun through daze.
    Elusive Mind will be replaced by IH, which is arguably stronger in alot of situations.

    That's kitten. The whole point of taking EM in a Power-Mantra shatter build was condi cleanse. Having at least some form of condi cleanse is mandatory for any competitive build.

    If you run EM you have that "some form". It's not the best cleanse, ofc, but still better than nothing.
    Which allows you some flexibility in your Utilities. In that case - Mantras.

    Now with IH people will have to take either Arcane Thievery, or Null Field.
    Instead of Mantras.
    Which kinda eliminates the point of mantra build, since you won't have a place for mantra, lol.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tiah.3091 said:

    @Noha.3749 said:
    Powermirage will still be strong. "Same" amount of damage, but no stun through daze.
    Elusive Mind will be replaced by IH, which is arguably stronger in alot of situations.

    That's kitten. The whole point of taking EM in a Power-Mantra shatter build was condi cleanse. Having at least some form of condi cleanse is mandatory for any competitive build.

    If you run EM you have that "some form". It's not the best cleanse, ofc, but still better than nothing.
    Which allows you some flexibility in your Utilities. In that case - Mantras.

    Now with IH people will have to take either Arcane Thievery, or Null Field.
    Instead of Mantras.
    Which kinda eliminates the point of mantra build, since you won't have a place for mantra, lol.

    Pretty much this. Portal and Blink are all but stapled to competitive mesmer builds, so that leaves just one slot for another utility. If you're not getting condition cleanse out of your traits, and you're not running chronomancer to get it from Well of Eternity, that's your entire utility bar spoken for.

  • Noha.3749Noha.3749 Member ✭✭✭

    Well, mirages suffering a little bit more versus condibuilds is fair imo.
    Mirage has and is still a really strong duelist and roamer, even pointholder.

    Mesmers in general are strong against most builds out there (most, not all). And every professions has its cons. Now mesmers cons is more obvious than before conditions.

    I think its fine, i dont wanna be "great" versus everything and dont think anything should be great versus everything.

  • Liza.2758Liza.2758 Member ✭✭

    sorry but ...
    all changes are good to me especially the dodge trait one.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    In the case of Elusive Mind... I've gotta say, this feels like a boonsmiting to me. They don't know what to do with it, so they're making darned sure it's not worth taking until they do come up with something.

    Yeah this is certainly what it looks like, a temporary measure. I wonder what they might have planned for it in the future.

    IH hybrid | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Spartacus.3192Spartacus.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    Pretty much this. Portal and Blink are all but stapled to competitive mesmer builds, so that leaves just one slot for another utility. If you're not getting condition cleanse out of your traits, and you're not running chronomancer to get it from Well of Eternity, that's your entire utility bar spoken for.

    Oh heaven forbid you have to use ONE utility skill for condi clear.
    Spellbreaker meta build uses TWO utility slots for condi clear/resistance. Featherfoot Grace AND Shake it Off.
    Core Medi Hammer Guard meta build uses TWO slots, Smite condition and contemplation of purity
    Firebrand mantra bunker meta build uses Contemplation of Purity
    Soulbeast uses Dolyak Stance

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2018

    @Spartacus.3192 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    Pretty much this. Portal and Blink are all but stapled to competitive mesmer builds, so that leaves just one slot for another utility. If you're not getting condition cleanse out of your traits, and you're not running chronomancer to get it from Well of Eternity, that's your entire utility bar spoken for.

    Oh heaven forbid you have to use ONE utility skill for condi clear.
    Spellbreaker meta build uses TWO utility slots for condi clear/resistance. Featherfoot Grace AND Shake it Off.
    Core Medi Hammer Guard meta build uses TWO slots, Smite condition and contemplation of purity
    Firebrand mantra bunker meta build uses Contemplation of Purity
    Soulbeast uses Dolyak Stance

    Agreed. Having to dedicate utility skills to deal with condi cleanse is not new or unorthodox. everyone certainly had to do it to deal with condi mirage and still will.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Airdive.2613Airdive.2613 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nebilim.5127 said:

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @Nebilim.5127 said:
    Druids lose CA uptime, warrs lose their burst bar, necros lose life force. What does mirages lose when cc? Dodge bar? lol

    1. It's not really "lol" seeing as they won't be able to dodge after the stun ends (no endurance left), so it still counts.

    You also need to understand that the mirage is effectively not being punished for missing a dodge against a cc. Sure they lose their ambush but it is way better than getting their kitten bursted and killed like every other class that needs to sacrifice a slot for a stunbreak AND a dodge for the burst, that's not mentioning that endurance is much easier to build class mechanic than the other ones. They have basically 2 opportunity as is, they can dodge the cc and attack at same time or fail the dodge and avoid getting punished/killed, thus making the opponent miss their burst and blow cooldowns off. The advantages are way better than the "disadvantage" that is so easily mitigated by a million things that build endurance. Imagine a sigil that gives necros half bar of life force or druids CA or even warriors burst.

    Hence think differently and try to rely less on a oneshot control-burst combo. Then there's both less need to cry about mirage cloak AND less "oneshot kill" pressure on all other professions who seem to be crying all over the forums about how bursty the meta has become.

  • Nebilim.5127Nebilim.5127 Member ✭✭✭

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @Nebilim.5127 said:

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @Nebilim.5127 said:
    Druids lose CA uptime, warrs lose their burst bar, necros lose life force. What does mirages lose when cc? Dodge bar? lol

    1. It's not really "lol" seeing as they won't be able to dodge after the stun ends (no endurance left), so it still counts.

    You also need to understand that the mirage is effectively not being punished for missing a dodge against a cc. Sure they lose their ambush but it is way better than getting their kitten bursted and killed like every other class that needs to sacrifice a slot for a stunbreak AND a dodge for the burst, that's not mentioning that endurance is much easier to build class mechanic than the other ones. They have basically 2 opportunity as is, they can dodge the cc and attack at same time or fail the dodge and avoid getting punished/killed, thus making the opponent miss their burst and blow cooldowns off. The advantages are way better than the "disadvantage" that is so easily mitigated by a million things that build endurance. Imagine a sigil that gives necros half bar of life force or druids CA or even warriors burst.

    Hence think differently and try to rely less on a oneshot control-burst combo. Then there's both less need to cry about mirage cloak AND less "oneshot kill" pressure on all other professions who seem to be crying all over the forums about how bursty the meta has become.

    Completely irrelevant to the argument and an entire different issue altogether. If there was no bursts, they would be the best point contesters in the game because they actually have mobility on top of chaining evasion.

  • Airdive.2613Airdive.2613 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nebilim.5127 said:

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @Nebilim.5127 said:

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @Nebilim.5127 said:
    Druids lose CA uptime, warrs lose their burst bar, necros lose life force. What does mirages lose when cc? Dodge bar? lol

    1. It's not really "lol" seeing as they won't be able to dodge after the stun ends (no endurance left), so it still counts.

    You also need to understand that the mirage is effectively not being punished for missing a dodge against a cc. Sure they lose their ambush but it is way better than getting their kitten bursted and killed like every other class that needs to sacrifice a slot for a stunbreak AND a dodge for the burst, that's not mentioning that endurance is much easier to build class mechanic than the other ones. They have basically 2 opportunity as is, they can dodge the cc and attack at same time or fail the dodge and avoid getting punished/killed, thus making the opponent miss their burst and blow cooldowns off. The advantages are way better than the "disadvantage" that is so easily mitigated by a million things that build endurance. Imagine a sigil that gives necros half bar of life force or druids CA or even warriors burst.

    Hence think differently and try to rely less on a oneshot control-burst combo. Then there's both less need to cry about mirage cloak AND less "oneshot kill" pressure on all other professions who seem to be crying all over the forums about how bursty the meta has become.

    Completely irrelevant to the argument and an entire different issue altogether. If there was no bursts, they would be the best point contesters in the game because they actually have mobility on top of chaining evasion.

    Entirely relevant in the sense of "if you can't beat them in a control-burst oneshot combo, invent another strategy". That's learning to play 101.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mesmer should never have been able to dodge while cc'd, much less break stun on every dodge.

    While I don't agree that exhaustion is the right way to nerf the trait, I don't think it should exist at all.

  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Mesmer should never have been able to dodge while cc'd, much less break stun on every dodge.

    While I don't agree that exhaustion is the right way to nerf the trait, I don't think it should exist at all.

    Its the right way. How can I explain it? Everything is or should revolve around risk vs reward. Being able to dodge while stunned is A HUGE reward. So what was the risk initially? It really didn't have one. So the way it looks now is that if you are stunned, then use your stun breaker. If your stun breaker is on CD or you don't have one. You take the risk of losing your stamina regen in order to dodge while stunned. That sounds fair since you are able to do a action when normally you would not be able to. Some people say that a ICD would of been better, no it would not be the same. A ICD isn't as punishing as it allows the Mesmer to continue to play like normal after being allowed a action when they were stunned. That isn't a very big trade off what the trait does. Anet made the right move, finally.

  • Imperadordf.2687Imperadordf.2687 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aza.2105 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Mesmer should never have been able to dodge while cc'd, much less break stun on every dodge.

    While I don't agree that exhaustion is the right way to nerf the trait, I don't think it should exist at all.

    Its the right way. How can I explain it? Everything is or should revolve around risk vs reward. Being able to dodge while stunned is A HUGE reward.

    See Mirage Cloak

    So what was the risk initially? It really didn't have one. So the way it looks now is that if you are stunned, then use your stun breaker. If your stun breaker is on CD or you don't have one. You take the risk of losing your stamina regen in order to dodge while stunned. That sounds fair since you are able to do a action when normally you would not be able to.

    Still nothing to do with EM, see Mirage Cloak

    Some people say that a ICD would of been better, no it would not be the same. A ICD isn't as punishing as it allows the Mesmer to continue to play like normal after being allowed a action when they were stunned. That isn't a very big trade off what the trait does. Anet made the right move, finally.

    Still nothing to do with EM, see Mirage Cloak

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think the signets change is a PvE change. It has very limited impact on PvP.

    Power shatter needed a change more than a nerf. If you did not have CC break and cleanse you had very limited counter play against power Mesmer. Removing Stun on daze was a very good change. Alternatively, they could have nerfed F1. I think this works better. My issue is that outside of shatter, GS does not do much in PvP.

    Elusive mind, the change is silly. Honestly, I think this trait should never existed. But making it obsolete does not do anyone any favors. I guess everyone now will use infinite horizon in every game mode. So much for diversity...

  • Imperadordf.2687Imperadordf.2687 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:
    Elusive mind, the change is silly. Honestly, I think this trait should never existed.

    Member when everyone was asking for it to be deleted back in PoF beta? I member..

    But making it obsolete does not do anyone any favors.

    yes yes yes yes
    yes yes yes yes
    yes yes yes yes
    yes yes yes yes

    I guess everyone now will use infinite horizon in every game mode. So much for diversity...

    Wasn't everyone already? heh

  • AngelLovesFredrik.6741AngelLovesFredrik.6741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2018

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @Nebilim.5127 said:

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @Nebilim.5127 said:

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @Nebilim.5127 said:
    Druids lose CA uptime, warrs lose their burst bar, necros lose life force. What does mirages lose when cc? Dodge bar? lol

    1. It's not really "lol" seeing as they won't be able to dodge after the stun ends (no endurance left), so it still counts.

    You also need to understand that the mirage is effectively not being punished for missing a dodge against a cc. Sure they lose their ambush but it is way better than getting their kitten bursted and killed like every other class that needs to sacrifice a slot for a stunbreak AND a dodge for the burst, that's not mentioning that endurance is much easier to build class mechanic than the other ones. They have basically 2 opportunity as is, they can dodge the cc and attack at same time or fail the dodge and avoid getting punished/killed, thus making the opponent miss their burst and blow cooldowns off. The advantages are way better than the "disadvantage" that is so easily mitigated by a million things that build endurance. Imagine a sigil that gives necros half bar of life force or druids CA or even warriors burst.

    Hence think differently and try to rely less on a oneshot control-burst combo. Then there's both less need to cry about mirage cloak AND less "oneshot kill" pressure on all other professions who seem to be crying all over the forums about how bursty the meta has become.

    Completely irrelevant to the argument and an entire different issue altogether. If there was no bursts, they would be the best point contesters in the game because they actually have mobility on top of chaining evasion.

    Entirely relevant in the sense of "if you can't beat them in a control-burst oneshot combo, invent another strategy". That's learning to play 101.

    You can't wither a mesmer down the same you can guard, warrior or Necro. These classes (guard especially) is very cooldown dependant. No evade frames on weapons, very limited mobility and highly telegraphed.
    If the mesmer wishes to disengage, he can. At any time, there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. Except for one-shotting him before he does.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aza.2105 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Mesmer should never have been able to dodge while cc'd, much less break stun on every dodge.

    While I don't agree that exhaustion is the right way to nerf the trait, I don't think it should exist at all.

    Its the right way. How can I explain it? Everything is or should revolve around risk vs reward. Being able to dodge while stunned is A HUGE reward. So what was the risk initially? It really didn't have one. So the way it looks now is that if you are stunned, then use your stun breaker. If your stun breaker is on CD or you don't have one. You take the risk of losing your stamina regen in order to dodge while stunned. That sounds fair since you are able to do a action when normally you would not be able to. Some people say that a ICD would of been better, no it would not be the same. A ICD isn't as punishing as it allows the Mesmer to continue to play like normal after being allowed a action when they were stunned. That isn't a very big trade off what the trait does. Anet made the right move, finally.

    Yeah actually that's a good point.

    If the Mirage dodges the cc's before getting hit by them, like every other class does, they don't incur exhaustion.

  • Airdive.2613Airdive.2613 Member ✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    You can't wither a mesmer down the same you can guard, warrior or Necro.

    I'm still not seeing a problem with professions being actually different from each other.

    These classes (guard especially) is very cooldown dependant. No evade frames on weapons, very limited mobility and highly telegraphed.

    Now this is highly subjective, given guardian's access to several gap closers, including instant ones.

    If the mesmer wishes to disengage, he can. At any time, there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. Except for one-shotting him before he does.

    Well, alright. There goes the mesmer, you capture the node, you win. It's a bit similar to how you approach thieves, but mesmer's cooldowns are more strict (no initiative), meaning they're forced to wait for their cooldowns before they can engage again.
    Also, at least as a thief it's easy for me to follow the mesmer and finish them should they try to escape with low health.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2018

    Zerker chronomancer was in a rather good spot. It was a bit like core guard, highly vulnerable after engagement, but serious damage. Without numerous teleports, stun breaks and evades-while-bursting-lol. You had to think when and where going into a fight and you got punished for wrong decisions - mirage can just hopp out.

    It's still too vulnerable in this meta, of course, but I think that's what high damage specs should be like. You get heavily punished by thieves, guards mirages. Why did it get nerfed?

    €: Oh, yeah, I forgot powercreep expansions.

  • AngelLovesFredrik.6741AngelLovesFredrik.6741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2018

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    You can't wither a mesmer down the same you can guard, warrior or Necro.

    I'm still not seeing a problem with professions being actually different from each other.

    These classes (guard especially) is very cooldown dependant. No evade frames on weapons, very limited mobility and highly telegraphed.

    Now this is highly subjective, given guardian's access to several gap closers, including instant ones.

    If the mesmer wishes to disengage, he can. At any time, there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. Except for one-shotting him before he does.

    Well, alright. There goes the mesmer, you capture the node, you win. It's a bit similar to how you approach thieves, but mesmer's cooldowns are more strict (no initiative), meaning they're forced to wait for their cooldowns before they can engage again.
    Also, at least as a thief it's easy for me to follow the mesmer and finish them should they try to escape with low health.

    What you fail to realize is that mesmer clones / phantasms / conditions keeps the "defending" player in combat for long enough until the mesmer simply disengages and re-engages once OOC.

    As for profession being different from eachother, that's great. When a class has little to no weaknesses, that's where we have an issue.

    Also, guardian being Cooldown based is not highly subjective. You need to cycle through your skills very carefully, because unlike most other classes Condi clears, blocks and what have you comes from set sources instead of being spread out.
    Take the heal for example, Its a 1.6k heal + 1.9k from trait. If you pop this without being able to do damage in order for it to proc the health gain, you're kitten out of luck. If you pop your 1 source of stability right before a necro corrupt, too bad. You don't have a single evade frame outside of your 2 dodges. You have no access to vigor, you can block a grand total of 4 attacks per 37 seconds (this is about half of the attacks staff phantasms does). So, its not subjective. It's the truth.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Airdive.2613Airdive.2613 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2018

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    What you fail to realize is that mesmer clones / phantasms / conditions keeps the "defending" player in combat for long enough until the mesmer simply disengages and re-engages once OOC.

    I fail to realize because this was never an issue for me. I mean, I can understand where a lot of complaints are coming from, but I never realized clones are overpowered. Post-rework phantasms die on their own in what, 2 seconds? And conditions can be applied by you just as well.

    As for profession being different from eachother, that's great. When a class has little to no weaknesses, that's where we have an issue.

    Well, can't really comment on that because I've never had THAT BIG of an issue with mesmers and I haven't played mesmer a lot. So, mesmers are fine for me personally.

    Also, guardian being Cooldown based is not highly subjective. You need to cycle through your skills very carefully, because unlike most other classes Condi clears, blocks and what have you comes from set sources instead of being spread out.
    Take the heal for example, Its a 1.6k heal + 1.9k from trait. If you pop this without being able to do damage in order for it to proc the health gain, you're kitten out of luck. If you pop your 1 source of stability right before a necro corrupt, too bad. You don't have a single evade frame outside of your 2 dodges. You have no access to vigor, you can block a grand total of 4 attacks per 37 seconds (this is about half of the attacks staff phantasms does). So, its not subjective. It's the truth.

    Don't know about your examples, but my radiant hammer build included at least 2 sources of stability, stun breaks, and a few more blocks (including the blocking healing skill). And you're forgetting about blind and possibly protection as sources of damage mitigation.
    I'm sure guardian takes some skill to do well, but I'm also sure it takes some skill to do well as a mesmer.

  • @Airdive.2613 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    What you fail to realize is that mesmer clones / phantasms / conditions keeps the "defending" player in combat for long enough until the mesmer simply disengages and re-engages once OOC.

    I fail to realize because this was never an issue for me. I mean, I can understand where a lot of complaints are coming from, but I never realized clones are overpowered. Post-rework phantasms die on their own in what, 2 seconds? And conditions can be applied by you just as well.

    As for profession being different from eachother, that's great. When a class has little to no weaknesses, that's where we have an issue.

    Well, can't really comment on that because I've never had THAT BIG of an issue with mesmers and I haven't played mesmer a lot. So, mesmers are fine for me personally.

    Also, guardian being Cooldown based is not highly subjective. You need to cycle through your skills very carefully, because unlike most other classes Condi clears, blocks and what have you comes from set sources instead of being spread out.
    Take the heal for example, Its a 1.6k heal + 1.9k from trait. If you pop this without being able to do damage in order for it to proc the health gain, you're kitten out of luck. If you pop your 1 source of stability right before a necro corrupt, too bad. You don't have a single evade frame outside of your 2 dodges. You have no access to vigor, you can block a grand total of 4 attacks per 37 seconds (this is about half of the attacks staff phantasms does). So, its not subjective. It's the truth.

    Don't know about your examples, but my radiant hammer build included at least 2 sources of stability, stun breaks, and a few more blocks (including the blocking healing skill). And you're forgetting about blind and possibly protection as sources of damage mitigation.
    I'm sure guardian takes some skill to do well, but I'm also sure it takes some skill to do well as a mesmer.

    Every viable radiant guard build runs 5 meditations. Shelter gets countered too easily by, fear mark, PLB, power soulbeast, deaths judgement, revenants in general. I'm by no means saying core guard is weak against mesmer, quite the opposite in fact. However, mesmer will never die unless he severely screws up.
    This is where the problem lies, when you as a player can't punish another player. When the only thing that really matters is how good he is. If he times guys defensive cooldown well, he wins. If he doesn't, you win.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • illusionary Inspiration is very lack luster for a grandmaster. it should tie back into the boon theme and grant smaller heal per unique boon you have on yourself when summoning. would be more potent in boon based builds.

    confounding suggestion change was good from a point of removing opening stuns and also gets rid of something that had a icd that you would need keep count of

    don't mind temporal enchanter being removed wish they had at least rolled the glamour recharge reduction ( or was it duration extended, I've forgot) into another trait somewhere

    that signet trait is just stupid with some of its effects. midnight having a 5 condi remove, humility having vul and a kitten buff to the heal plus 1 clone, 1 clone seriously
    the heal one needs a buff
    midnight would be better granting resistance for 3 seconds than the condi removal, mesmers gaining way to much condi removal spread-out throughout trait lines as it is
    don't mind the domination 1 it good for openers (as long as the boons removed first)
    agree that the illusions signet should be 3 clones for its big cooldown
    the elite signet would be better if it extended the moa duration by 1 second as well as the vul

    egotism not got much say about it other than pretty bland might be ok for burst builds

    elusive mind would be better off removed at this point as it getting stupid now. nerf the problem that is mirage cloak ( reason mirages are strong) and get a new trait to replace this rubbish .

  • Trigr.6481Trigr.6481 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2018

    @Trigr.6481 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Core Mes doesn't need any nerfing but Mirage deserved every single bit of nerfing that it has received. Hands down, no argument behind it.

    If you're going to argue against it, state your case.

    I guess you don't have an argument then, which makes sense. Even reading your prior threads about mesmer you don't even go detail at all on what you think is unbalanced before calling for nerfs, other than "mesmer is balanced" and "Goku fighting amongst Street Fighter II characters", which leads me to believe that you haven't got the slightest clue on you think you know about the class other than the fact that it's strong. Which makes even more sense fighting you in ranked a few weeks ago, in a single duel you lost three times, ran into base each time you got low to reset, coming back to fight on a point that wasn't yours, taking yourself out the game. Arguably one of the worst things you could have done instead of rotating elsewhere being useful, the best part about it is that Eura gives me quite a bit of trouble, perhaps you should ask him for tips.

    For someone who invests quite a bit of time writing a novels on the forums on what you should do when it comes to conquest, and rotating etc, you should probably learn to take your own advice. And learn mesmer while you're at it before leaving blanket statements about you think should or should not be nerfed concerning it. Because even if you were unbiased regarding the topic at hand, which you're not, you'd realize that nerfing something into irrelevancy isn't good balance regardless of the class that is at the chopping block, and hurts build diversity as a whole.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trigr.6481

    Nope, no arguments here. Just a statement that is receiving more likes than your OP post.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Spartacus.3192 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    Pretty much this. Portal and Blink are all but stapled to competitive mesmer builds, so that leaves just one slot for another utility. If you're not getting condition cleanse out of your traits, and you're not running chronomancer to get it from Well of Eternity, that's your entire utility bar spoken for.

    Oh heaven forbid you have to use ONE utility skill for condi clear.
    Spellbreaker meta build uses TWO utility slots for condi clear/resistance. Featherfoot Grace AND Shake it Off.
    Core Medi Hammer Guard meta build uses TWO slots, Smite condition and contemplation of purity
    Firebrand mantra bunker meta build uses Contemplation of Purity
    Soulbeast uses Dolyak Stance

    Yeah, those are really not equivalent.

    First, because those professions don't already have multiple slots dedicated just to doing their job. While not as extreme as thieves, mesmers are, at the bottom line, a mobility profession. If they're not packing Portal and Blink, they're doing their team a disservice, especially if their team doesn't have a thief or other mobility profession to pick up the slack. Most professions are free to pick their utility skills according to what benefits them most in a battle - yes, they generally want to have a stunbreak or two and some condition removal in there, but they usually have some discretion to choose what to take to best suit their build and the current environment. Mesmers don't (although, to be fair, Blink does serve as a stunbreak and is reasonably useful in combat purposes as a result, so it's mostly Portal which is an obligatory mobility slot).

    Second... those skills you've just listed are largely being taken because they have multiple uses, not just for condition removal. Featherfoot Grace and Shake it Off are both stunbreaks as well, and the former grants mobility as well. For guardian, Smite Condition adds significantly to your DPS as well while CoP is also a stunbreak and can generate a lot of boons for you, and that's before we even consider Monk's Focus which every sPvP guardian build has: speaking from experience of playing guardian, guardians don't need that much condition removal (particularly since they also get condition removal from F2 and the Smiter's Boon trait), they take it because they can. Dolyak Stance is... oh, look, a stunbreak that provides stability and retaliation, including to your allies if traited.

    Mesmer condition removal skills... don't manage to combine this many things into one package. Traited Signet of Midnight comes closest, but this comes back to making Inspiration indispensable again, and Arcane Thievery could probably work. But this still comes down to all of the utilities being spoken for with no room for anything that complements your specific build.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Spartacus.3192 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    Pretty much this. Portal and Blink are all but stapled to competitive mesmer builds, so that leaves just one slot for another utility. If you're not getting condition cleanse out of your traits, and you're not running chronomancer to get it from Well of Eternity, that's your entire utility bar spoken for.

    Oh heaven forbid you have to use ONE utility skill for condi clear.
    Spellbreaker meta build uses TWO utility slots for condi clear/resistance. Featherfoot Grace AND Shake it Off.
    Core Medi Hammer Guard meta build uses TWO slots, Smite condition and contemplation of purity
    Firebrand mantra bunker meta build uses Contemplation of Purity
    Soulbeast uses Dolyak Stance

    Yeah, those are really not equivalent.

    First, because those professions don't already have multiple slots dedicated just to doing their job. While not as extreme as thieves, mesmers are, at the bottom line, a mobility profession. If they're not packing Portal and Blink, they're doing their team a disservice, especially if their team doesn't have a thief or other mobility profession to pick up the slack. Most professions are free to pick their utility skills according to what benefits them most in a battle - yes, they generally want to have a stunbreak or two and some condition removal in there, but they usually have some discretion to choose what to take to best suit their build and the current environment. Mesmers don't (although, to be fair, Blink does serve as a stunbreak and is reasonably useful in combat purposes as a result, so it's mostly Portal which is an obligatory mobility slot).

    Second... those skills you've just listed are largely being taken because they have multiple uses, not just for condition removal. Featherfoot Grace and Shake it Off are both stunbreaks as well, and the former grants mobility as well. For guardian, Smite Condition adds significantly to your DPS as well while CoP is also a stunbreak and can generate a lot of boons for you, and that's before we even consider Monk's Focus which every sPvP guardian build has: speaking from experience of playing guardian, guardians don't need that much condition removal (particularly since they also get condition removal from F2 and the Smiter's Boon trait), they take it because they can. Dolyak Stance is... oh, look, a stunbreak that provides stability and retaliation, including to your allies if traited.

    Mesmer condition removal skills... don't manage to combine this many things into one package. Traited Signet of Midnight comes closest, but this comes back to making Inspiration indispensable again, and Arcane Thievery could probably work. But this still comes down to all of the utilities being spoken for with no room for anything that complements your specific build.

    You hit the nail on the head well there.

    Remembering in the past for old power shatter it used to be mandatory Blink/Decoy and then either Mantra cleanse or Portal depending if organised team or solo.

    Arcane Thievery is completely useless in certain matchups so really depends on the situation, and Mantra Cleanse while very strong for cleanse again does nothing else - which is good, however as you said mesmer lives and dies by its utilities. It's not possible to compare what's "fair" for one class' utilities with another, because the weapon skills and so on are entirely different.

    And then you have Inspiration - which if you take you can facetank condi and win. I really don't get why they made Sympathetic Visage in there, or put even more cleanse for traiting Signet of Midnight.

    This is why Elusive Mind cleanse was so liberating, because it enabled some new variety in choosing traits/utilities.

    IH hybrid | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @Trigr.6481

    Nope, no arguments here. Just a statement that is receiving more likes than your OP post.

    Or about a hundred topics on this very forum lol

  • Kicast.1459Kicast.1459 Member ✭✭✭

    As always...easy cheesy poor minded changes

    Anet at its level

  • EpicTurtle.8571EpicTurtle.8571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @Trigr.6481

    Nope, no arguments here. Just a statement that is receiving more likes than your OP post.

    Argument ad populum isn't a real argument either. Not that I'm taking either side.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @Trigr.6481

    Nope, no arguments here. Just a statement that is receiving more likes than your OP post.

    Argument ad populum isn't a real argument either. Not that I'm taking either side.

    You're correct sir. Ad populum is not an argument but rather inarguable statistical data that indicates a popular opinion.

  • Schwahrheit.4203Schwahrheit.4203 Member ✭✭
    edited October 5, 2018

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @Trigr.6481

    Nope, no arguments here. Just a statement that is receiving more likes than your OP post.

    Argument ad populum isn't a real argument either. Not that I'm taking either side.

    You're correct sir. Ad populum is not an argument but rather inarguable statistical data that indicates a popular opinion.

    I guess you just had to say "stun breaking on dodge is too broken" when it's already possible to not get caught in the first place as a Mirage (Portal, Z-axis teleport, etc).

    But yeah, honestly Countless just tell a bunch of people to get ANET to make a Classic GW2 server or some kitten. Your build from like before HoT was more fun than these garbage kitten elite specs. Would be the perfect time when every other game is kitten for GW2 to save face again.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @Trigr.6481

    Nope, no arguments here. Just a statement that is receiving more likes than your OP post.

    Argument ad populum isn't a real argument either. Not that I'm taking either side.

    You're correct sir. Ad populum is not an argument but rather inarguable statistical data that indicates a popular opinion.

    Popular opinion isn't always accurate, though, and there's that line about democracy being two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. When it comes to PvP nerfs, every profession is the sheep: people who seriously play more than three professions in PvP at a time are probably few and far between, so any PvP nerf is going to have more people who benefit from it than who are harmed by it.

    Ironically, in fact, the cases where this isn't true are probably going to be the cases when the nerf was needed the most, when you think about it.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2018

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @Trigr.6481

    Nope, no arguments here. Just a statement that is receiving more likes than your OP post.

    Argument ad populum isn't a real argument either. Not that I'm taking either side.

    You're correct sir. Ad populum is not an argument but rather inarguable statistical data that indicates a popular opinion.

    I don't think it's possible to find a collection of less useful opinions than people on an MMORPG forum.

    MMORPG forums are always a hot bed for people who are perpetually angry, bitter, and with huge biases and persecution complexes towards their particular class or favorite subset of the game. It's the way it's always been with every MMORPG I have ever played from WoW, to City of Heros, to Aion to GW2. My build is fine L2P. Every other build is OP. Please nerf.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @Trigr.6481

    Nope, no arguments here. Just a statement that is receiving more likes than your OP post.

    Argument ad populum isn't a real argument either. Not that I'm taking either side.

    You're correct sir. Ad populum is not an argument but rather inarguable statistical data that indicates a popular opinion.

    I don't think it's possible to find a collection of less useful opinions than people on an MMORPG forum.

    MMORPG forums are always a hot bed for people who are perpetually angry, bitter, and with huge biases and persecution complexes towards their particular class or favorite subset of the game. It's the way it's always been with every MMORPG I have ever played from WoW, to City of Heros, to Aion to GW2. My build is fine L2P. Every other build is OP. Please nerf.

    The importance of an opinion is relative to the topic at hand. If we are discussing politics and voting, the opinion of a 3 year old is pretty much negligent. If we are discussing what that 3 year old wants his birthday cake to taste like, his opinion is the only opinion that really matters. So, since this thread was written in the Guild Wars 2 Official PVP Subforum and titled as "My Honest Review On The Mesmer Changes", I'd say the opinions in this thread were not only useful but also important for developers to pay attention to. You know, considering that those opinions are coming from customers and all.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2018

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @Trigr.6481

    Nope, no arguments here. Just a statement that is receiving more likes than your OP post.

    Argument ad populum isn't a real argument either. Not that I'm taking either side.

    You're correct sir. Ad populum is not an argument but rather inarguable statistical data that indicates a popular opinion.

    I don't think it's possible to find a collection of less useful opinions than people on an MMORPG forum.

    MMORPG forums are always a hot bed for people who are perpetually angry, bitter, and with huge biases and persecution complexes towards their particular class or favorite subset of the game. It's the way it's always been with every MMORPG I have ever played from WoW, to City of Heros, to Aion to GW2. My build is fine L2P. Every other build is OP. Please nerf.

    The importance of an opinion is relative to the topic at hand. If we are discussing politics and voting, the opinion of a 3 year old is pretty much negligent. If we are discussing what that 3 year old wants his birthday cake to taste like, his opinion is the only opinion that really matters.

    Irrelevant analogy.

    So, since this thread was written in the Guild Wars 2 Official PVP Subforum and titled as "My Honest Review On The Mesmer Changes", I'd say the opinions in this thread were not only useful but also important for developers to pay attention to. You know, considering that those opinions are coming from customers and all.

    Absolutely not. I can literally make a thread complaining about any build that's even remotely run regardless of whether it's even halfway good or not and easily get 20+ likes on it because by and large people who frequent MMORPG forums are uniformly bitter, biased individuals and their only thought process is "Every other class and build is op. Mine is fine L2P." You know it. I know it. The nerfs to Mirage and Chronomancer have been almost point by point ones that that I recommended, for you should all be grateful to me and my suggestions. The bulk of posting on here were people with garbage nonsense opinions like "Echo of Memory Shouldn't block or summon a phantasm" and "Mirage Shouldn't have a elite spec mechanic" or people straight up saying "Delete Scourge". Not worth listening to because everyone is less intelligent than me regardless of how much they're paying.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    The nerfs to Mirage and Chronomancer have been almost point by point ones that that I recommended, for you should all be grateful to me and my suggestions.

    Only, the Mirage fix was horrible and didn't fix the underlaying issues of the spec. The Nerf to Chrono was also just numbers, which was never the issue with the build.
    So I'll hold off on thanking you for just a bit. And here I thought I was obnoxious.

    Neither those were my recommendations, which is why they were not good changes.

    You can be wrong. I'm okay with that.

    So what nerfs were you talking about? Mind filling us in?

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • If ANET was smart tbh, just gut mirage and gut kitten like Full Counter tbh or w/e the next cancer is going to be. Nerf the evade spamming while attacking garbage already, but nah people are too dumb to understand that this evade spamming while attacking gameplay is obnoxious, and while it is complex in blueprints and c++ code it really just makes PvP anti-fun.

    Like less is more at this point but ANET will never get that.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2018

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    The nerfs to Mirage and Chronomancer have been almost point by point ones that that I recommended, for you should all be grateful to me and my suggestions.

    Only, the Mirage fix was horrible and didn't fix the underlaying issues of the spec. The Nerf to Chrono was also just numbers, which was never the issue with the build.
    So I'll hold off on thanking you for just a bit. And here I thought I was obnoxious.

    Neither those were my recommendations, which is why they were not good changes.

    You can be wrong. I'm okay with that.

    So what nerfs were you talking about? Mind filling us in?

    My post history is right there

    <

    Also you're derailing the primary subject and getting into the weeds. MMORPG forum posts are the absolute worst place to gather opinions about anything as it primarily attracts biased and bitter people.

    (If you want a specific example, rebalancing torch skills to have longer duration at the cost of stacks so they aren't dumping 10 burning on people was specifically my suggestion that caught on here after I pointed out exactly what those skills were doing damage wise. You're welcome.)

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

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