Holy trinity - raids

Can we finally get out of the holy trinity meta?

In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior.

That's pretty damn annoying.

Please anet. Open this up, so other classes get a chance to be played as well.

Tell me 1 class that cant do raids.

@Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 said:Tell me 1 class that cant do raids.

No no no, hyperbole doesn't work if approached with rational thought. No class can raid beside chrono, druid and warrior, TC said so.

@"Nimon.7840" said:Can we finally get out of the holy trinity meta?

In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior.

That's pretty kitten annoying.

Please anet. Open this up, so other classes get a chance to be played as well.

even with these "locked spots" you are able to bring every other class in a 10man team. where is the problem?

@sigur.9453 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Can we finally get out of the holy trinity meta?

In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior.

That's pretty kitten annoying.

Please anet. Open this up, so other classes get a chance to be played as well.

9*3= 27. you can bring all 27 with you? remember, there are 3 specs per class.

I thought raids in GW2 were only 10 mans.

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Can we finally get out of the holy trinity meta?

In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior.

That's pretty kitten annoying.

Please anet. Open this up, so other classes get a chance to be played as well.

Class =/= elite specialization.

There are 9 classes in this game and each can perform in some manner to be able to raid.

EDIT: and if we want to get real technical, there is not even 1 class but professions of which there is 9 (though profession is similar to class from other games) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Profession

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Can we finally get out of the holy trinity meta?

In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior.

That's pretty kitten annoying.

Please anet. Open this up, so other classes get a chance to be played as well.

you want to get real technical then forget about the specs AFTER you link yourself to it. lmao

a tempest and a weaver are different.

specifically, yeah sure all 9 can go. but within those 9 there are at least 27 variations and your 2 chrono are only leaving 8 spots left. that leave 26 specs and not enough room.

stay on the main topic here : "Holy trinity - raids" and "In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior." presumably, this means a "core" warrior can suffice. what the o.p. is talking about, to my understanding, is that you SHOULD be able to take any 10 of the 27 variations and be successful.

you know this quote right: bring the player not the class.

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Can we finally get out of the holy trinity meta?

In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior.

That's pretty kitten annoying.

Please anet. Open this up, so other classes get a chance to be played as well.

Read what it says:Base Proffesion of which there are 9

Elite specialisation of which there are 18.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Can we finally get out of the holy trinity meta?

In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior.

That's pretty kitten annoying.

Please anet. Open this up, so other classes get a chance to be played as well.

whats this say..https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Profession#Compact_profession_icon_table

9 rows of 3 Colosseum = ? ta-da 27

you cant be this daft. and re-read my edit.

@"Ralistu.1965" said:stay on the main topic here : "Holy trinity - raids" and "In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior." presumably, this means a "core" warrior can suffice. what the o.p. is talking about, to my understanding, is that you SHOULD be able to take any 10 of the 27 variations and be successful.

Then raids wouldn't be called raids but rather "very easy 10 player dungeons".

you know this quote right: bring the player not the class.

Try that with random people (without any requirements & restrictions) in GW2 and you'll get a disaster in 99 out of 100 attempts.

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Can we finally get out of the holy trinity meta?

In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior.

That's pretty kitten annoying.

Please anet. Open this up, so other classes get a chance to be played as well.

Read the top please:

There are nine professions, each with a unique style and theme to their combat approach which is emphasized by the use of an important profession-specific mechanic and access to different skill types and effects.

Now going from there, the simple overview gives a fast representation of all 9 professions and all 18 specialization icons. It even names the columns differently. At no point ever are specializations referred to as professions in the entire article.

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@"Ralistu.1965" said:stay on the main topic here : "Holy trinity - raids" and "In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior." presumably, this means a "core" warrior can suffice. what the o.p. is talking about, to my understanding, is that you SHOULD be able to take any 10 of the 27 variations and be successful.

you know this quote right: bring the player not the class.

who said it had to be "very easy", thats a pretty pessimist way to look at things.

well thats because most people struggle to play.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Can we finally get out of the holy trinity meta?

In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior.

That's pretty kitten annoying.

Please anet. Open this up, so other classes get a chance to be played as well.

There are

nine

professions, each with a unique style and theme to their combat approach which is emphasized by the use of an important profession-specific mechanic and access to different skill types and effects.

when you tell someone to read, and they read the WHOLE page, don't get mad when it doesn't fit your thought process. go on, look again. you DONT even have to click on it, you can read it in the link : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Profession#Compact_profession_icon_table

"Compact_profession_icon_table" if there were only 9 professions, there would only be 9 in the box.further more, their reasoning for limiting new players on the topic is "emphasized by the use of an important profession-specific mechanic". to which there would be "9". as you learn about the professions, it brings you to the bottom box, which i have linked to you a second time. Also, reference the O.P. in doing so. again: "Holy trinity - raids" and "In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior." presumably, this means a "core" warrior can suffice. what the o.p. is talking about, to my understanding, is that you SHOULD be able to take any 10 of the 27 variations and be successful.

im done talking to you, youre like a wall.

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Can we finally get out of the holy trinity meta?

In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior.

That's pretty kitten annoying.

Please anet. Open this up, so other classes get a chance to be played as well.

There are

nine

professions, each with a unique style and theme to their combat approach which is emphasized by the use of an important profession-specific mechanic and access to different skill types and effects.

Yes, compact representation of professions and specialization icons which clearly adds the specializations for completions sake.

Just to be clear:

• the text states there are 9 professions,
• the explicit overview clearly distinguishes between professions and sub elite specializations
• the simple overview clearly makes a distinction between profession and specialization in naming the columns

Yet you decide that based off of a similar column now everything is a profession? Quite a leap.

EDIT:

@Ralistu.1965 said:Also, reference the O.P. in doing so. again: "Holy trinity - raids" and "In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior." presumably, this means a "core" warrior can suffice. what the o.p. is talking about, to my understanding, is that you SHOULD be able to take any 10 of the 27 variations and be successful.

Considering that is an impossibility since roles are a thing and not every profession (including elite specializations) has access to the ability to tank or heal, which are essential for certain boss fights, the base assumption that TC is asking for is the ability for each 10 unique combination between the 27 variations should be possible is flawed. Either TCs demand is flawed or your understanding of it.

Now the next assumption would be that all 27 variations are supposed to viable in some form or another, which is possible but balance wise near impossible. Sure that could be a demand.

Finally given that the only rational and possible variation of this is that TC demands that each profession is in some form viable, that is already the case.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Can we finally get out of the holy trinity meta?

In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior.

That's pretty kitten annoying.

Please anet. Open this up, so other classes get a chance to be played as well.

There are

nine

professions, each with a unique style and theme to their combat approach which is emphasized by the use of an important profession-specific mechanic and access to different skill types and effects.

• the text states there are 9 professions,
• the explicit overview clearly distinguishes between professions and sub elite specializations
• the simple overview clearly makes a distinction between profession and specialization in naming the columns

okay. i bite one more time, to tell you for a third time.

further more, their reasoning for limiting new players on the topic is "emphasized by the use of an important profession-specific mechanic". to which there would be "9". as you learn about the professions, it brings you to the bottom box, which i have linked to you a second time. Also, reference the O.P. in doing so. again: "Holy trinity - raids" and "In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior." presumably, this means a "core" warrior can suffice. what the o.p. is talking about, to my understanding, is that you SHOULD be able to take any 10 of the 27 variations and be successful.

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Can we finally get out of the holy trinity meta?

In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior.

That's pretty kitten annoying.

Please anet. Open this up, so other classes get a chance to be played as well.

There are

nine

professions, each with a unique style and theme to their combat approach which is emphasized by the use of an important profession-specific mechanic and access to different skill types and effects.

• the text states there are 9 professions,
• the explicit overview clearly distinguishes between professions and sub elite specializations
• the simple overview clearly makes a distinction between profession and specialization in naming the columns

and I have just replied how your understanding of TCs demand or a flawed demand from TC is already impossible.

EDIT: and I'll repost what I posted further up:

Considering that is an impossibility since roles are a thing and not every profession (including elite specializations) has access to the ability to tank or heal, which are essential for certain boss fights, the base assumption that TC is asking for is the ability for each 10 unique combination between the 27 variations should be possible is flawed. Either TCs demand is flawed or your understanding of it. -> IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO ASK FOR ALL COMBINATIONS OF 10 OUT OF 27 TO BE VIABLE.

Now the next assumption would be that all 27 variations are supposed to be viable in some form or another, which is possible but balance wise near impossible. Sure that could be a demand. -> IT IS POSSIBLE BUT BALANCE WISE NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO DEMAND ALL 27 VARIATIONS ARE VIABLE.

Finally given that the only rational and possible variation of this is that TC demands that each profession is in some form viable, that is already the case. - IT IS POSSIBLE TO ASK THAT ALL 9 PROFESSIONS (INCLUDING THEIR SPECIALIZATIONS) HAVE SOME FROM OF VIABLE BUILD FOR RAIDING. THIS IS ALREADY THE CASE.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Can we finally get out of the holy trinity meta?

In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior.

That's pretty kitten annoying.

Please anet. Open this up, so other classes get a chance to be played as well.

There are

nine

professions, each with a unique style and theme to their combat approach which is emphasized by the use of an important profession-specific mechanic and access to different skill types and effects.

• the text states there are 9 professions,
• the explicit overview clearly distinguishes between professions and sub elite specializations
• the simple overview clearly makes a distinction between profession and specialization in naming the columns

@Ralistu.1965 said:Also, reference the O.P. in doing so. again: "Holy trinity - raids" and "In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior." presumably, this means a "core" warrior can suffice. what the o.p. is talking about, to my understanding, is that you SHOULD be able to take any 10 of the 27 variations and be successful.

I just saw your edit.

it's not impossible, youre pessimistic. it is always incredibly difficult to "balance" an mmo. it would have been easier without the addition of another profession, the revenant. but not impossible. especially with a few years before the first raid release.

I think the "demand" is flawed as i proved to you my opinion based off of what they said. I didnt read between the lines and assume, i read it for face value. you can save a lot of bullshit conversations in your life if you do that.

as long as theres more than 3 classes (tank/heal/dps) there will never be balance and you will always need some sort of trinity for raiding, its built into the system. or, devs need to spend more money on more people to get better balance. business is about profit though.

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Can we finally get out of the holy trinity meta?

In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior.

That's pretty kitten annoying.

Please anet. Open this up, so other classes get a chance to be played as well.

There are

nine

professions, each with a unique style and theme to their combat approach which is emphasized by the use of an important profession-specific mechanic and access to different skill types and effects.

• the text states there are 9 professions,
• the explicit overview clearly distinguishes between professions and sub elite specializations
• the simple overview clearly makes a distinction between profession and specialization in naming the columns

@Ralistu.1965 said:Also, reference the O.P. in doing so. again: "Holy trinity - raids" and "In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior." presumably, this means a "core" warrior can suffice. what the o.p. is talking about, to my understanding, is that you SHOULD be able to take any 10 of the 27 variations and be successful.

It is literally impossible to have all variations be mixed together in every possible way because some of those combinations would leave the group without a tank, a healer or both. This makes success quite literally impossible on certain bosses.

Yes one can ask for all professions an elite specializations to be viable. It is not realistic to assume this is doable.

Finally the only rational assumption or demand one can make is that within the framework of the 9 professions with their added elite specialization permutations one be allowed to be viable within a 10 man group thus as to not have to change profession. That is already possible.

EDIT: and as far as TC is concerned, we all know what he wants and why he once again made a thread about nerfing the established support meta and it has nothing to do with giving access to all professions.

The only real problem here is how good chrono is. Warriors and druids bring slightly better group dps but chronos are just way too strong with with quickness+alacrity+more evades than anyone else. Alacrity should not be a group buff or should come much more limited.

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Can we finally get out of the holy trinity meta?

In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior.

That's pretty kitten annoying.

Please anet. Open this up, so other classes get a chance to be played as well.

I think you discussed this matter enough with cyni.... but.. .I have the option between 9 classes when I make a new character. I can change elite specs on the fly without relogging.... There are 9 classes

@Nimon.7840 said:Can we finally get out of the holy trinity meta?The so-called holy trinity refers to something that doesn't exist in GW2, where the game forces groups to form around specific classes.

In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior.Chronos are tanking and buffing (and dishing some damage). Druids are buffing and healing. Warriors are buffing and doing some damage. None of that is part of the traditional trinity. Groups like them because it makes it easier on everyone else. The game doesn't require them at all; it's a social convention, not a mechanical one.

There are plenty of ways around it, but all of them require that the OP do more than just show up to someone else's group. Changing common practice is incredibly hard, as we've seen repeatedly in how long it takes people to stop using old comps, old builds, old strategies after certain patches.

ofc you can I had a run with scourge tank in trailblazer. Don't let meta, that is optimal builds and classes for speed clear with well trained and cooperating group to fool you. Do what you want, play as you pleased.

@sigur.9453 said:

@Ralistu.1965 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Can we finally get out of the holy trinity meta?

In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior.

That's pretty kitten annoying.

Please anet. Open this up, so other classes get a chance to be played as well.

Then why did you say something?

again. read what the main poster said and referenced. ive been here since beta and even referenced the "9" multiple times. you people are targeting the wrong person. I'm merely adding to the conversation. the lack of reading comprehension is strong with a few of you,. The only person who can "clarify" anything is the o.p. maybe their language skills aren't great. having a pessimistic and elitest tone to them when they got their terminology wrong, didn't help. (i don't mean you specifically)

here: "In all groups there has to be two chronos, one druid and one warrior." wtf is that a reference to? 2 specs and a profession. it seems to me that this "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Profession#Compact_profession_icon_table" reference is 100% in line with the o.p's tone and meaning of that post.

if you aren't adding to the conversion you're just using elitist undertones and pushing newer players away.

@Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 said:Tell me 1 class that cant do raids.

Dont think thats his point.

There will alawqys be some sort of "trinity". As long as some classes can buff others zhere will be one that does it most efectively and that class will be meta and in that trinity. If there are no classes like that then your dps depends only on you. No other sources affect your performance so there will be clearly best dps option and that will be taken. We had this way back with dungeons and warriors.