dagger nerfs because of aesthetics?

The reduction of dagger auto attack damage in pvp modes seamed more of an aesthetic change than an actual balance change. Was there any reason to reduce the aa damage other than for there to be less skills split between modes?As it stands now daredevil builds (aka the only builds using main hand dagger in pvp/wvw as a primary weapon set) are nerfed for no good reason, and the build was already getting phased out by core thief and dead eye. I guess daredevil is slowly joining berzerkers in the 'non viable' corner.

@foste.3098 said:builds are nerfed for no good reasonBalance patches in a nutshell, the number of changes that actually improve the game in a meaningful way pales in comparison to those which are just done for the heck of it.

@foste.3098 said:As it stands now daredevil builds (aka the only builds using main hand dagger in pvp/wvw as a primary weapon set)

In WvW most DE builds have D/P as their secondary to Rifle.

@Turk.5460 said:

@foste.3098 said:As it stands now daredevil builds (aka the only builds using main hand dagger in pvp/wvw as a primary weapon set)

This, or they take sword/dagger. But theres a higher use of dagger cuz of malicious backstab. If you know how to cancle infiltrators shot, it acts like a steal that keeps you in cover.

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@foste.3098 said:As it stands now daredevil builds (aka the only builds using main hand dagger in pvp/wvw as a primary weapon set)

I honestly prefer S/D for deadeye as the evade, gap closer, unblockable strikes and boonsteal are a nice compliment to rifle but I find it hard to justify not using dagger with the amount of spike damage it can do. So hey.

Ok how does dead eye sometimes using d/p as an utility off set, akin how other builds use short bow, relate to dagger auto attacks getting nerfed by 37%??? I think my point just went over some peoples heads.Let me spell it out: d/p as a main weapon set of a build is no longer a good option, this will primarily affect daredevils since the only viable power build for them was d/p and with the weapon set taking a massive nerf bat to its primary damage dealing skill (the aa chian) daredevil might become unplayable in pvp modes the same as berzerker is for warrior. The only other option for this elite spec is a condi build that is outclassed by most other condition based builds.

Even more jarring is that they made this change when no one was complaining about d/p, it was just fine with the one exception being malicious backstab in wvw but this change makes no difference in regards to those. In fact the only build where d/p will be used is dead eye, this will be in place of the short bow as a situational off set.

@"foste.3098" said:Even more jarring is that they made this change when no one was complaining about d/p

Stuff like this really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone anymore.

@Turk.5460 said:

@foste.3098 said:As it stands now daredevil builds (aka the only builds using main hand dagger in pvp/wvw as a primary weapon set)

That's not a good reason to nerf Double Strike and Wild Strike damage: non-DE thieves suffer a lack of damage while DE thieves for sure don't base their damage on dagger chain.

Maybe they have to nerf the no sense Malicious Backstab+Assassin's Signet damage instead of continuing nerf other power thief builds.

Maybe I am wrong but it looks like it's because they buffed thrill of the crime. To compensate for the little increased might they want to decrease it else where.

Haven't tested out how it actually plays yet but I ve been trying out other classes to phrase out of thief. I don't see why I have to press 10 million buttons to try and win a fight when other classes can literally kill things in less than 10 seconds.

I am a returning player. Mained thief for pvp n wvw, was shocked to see d/p nerfed to the ground. It used to be something to be feared. Now it just plays the role of running away and pot shooting people.

The auto dagger dmg feels like a wetnoodle. 1-3k. Power mesmer auto hits atre 3k 5k 7k from range...

I could be wrong but isn't the current change a buff to dagger autos a buff?

The changes read as follow :

Double Strike: This skill is no longer split between PvP and WvW and will now use the lower 8% value in all game modes.Wild Strike: This skill is no longer split between PvE and competitive modes and will now use the lower 7% value in all game modes.

Before patch both of these skills were lowered by 19% in PvE and 15% in PvP respectively when they were split per game mode before tuesday's patch.

Sources : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Double_Strikehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wild_Strike

They keep on nerfing it so D/P can't 1v1 or spike kill as easily. The unfortunate side affect of nerfing the auto-attack and relying on your abilities is that you will need to focus more on dodges and initiative. It pushes D/P heavily into Trickery and Daredevil now to do anything. Non-meta builds suffer.

@"Griever.8150" said:I could be wrong but isn't the current change a buff to dagger autos a buff?

The changes read as follow :

Double Strike: This skill is no longer split between PvP and WvW and will now use the lower 8% value in all game modes.Wild Strike: This skill is no longer split between PvE and competitive modes and will now use the lower 7% value in all game modes.

Before patch both of these skills were lowered by 19% in PvE and 15% in PvP respectively when they were split per game mode before tuesday's patch.

Sources : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Double_Strikehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wild_Strike

They need to clarify this, cause it's confusing AF.

@DragonSlayer.1087 said:

@"Griever.8150" said:I could be wrong but isn't the current change a buff to dagger autos a buff?

The changes read as follow :

Double Strike: This skill is no longer split between PvP and WvW and will now use the lower 8% value in all game modes.Wild Strike: This skill is no longer split between PvE and competitive modes and will now use the lower 7% value in all game modes.

Before patch both of these skills were lowered by 19% in PvE and 15% in PvP respectively when they were split per game mode before tuesday's patch.

Sources :

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Double_Strike

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wild_Strike

This is how I read the release notes regarding the Thief Dagger AA since the first nerfs starting back in March:(most of this is a copy/paste from the notes)

March 27th Release notes:•Dagger Autoattack: Reduced damage by 15% overall in PvP and WvW.

Individually:Double Strike: Reduced the damage dealt by this skill by 8%Wild Strike: Reduced the damage dealt by this skill by 7%= 15% total reduction in PvP & WvW

July 24 Release notes:•Double Strike: Reduced the damage dealt by this skill by 19% in PvE only.•Wild Strike: Reduced the damage dealt by this skill by 18% in PvE only.= 37% total reduction in PvE

Now ALL game modes are the same, which means the PvE version got a lot of its juice back:Double Strike: Reduced the damage dealt by this skill by 8%Wild Strike: Reduced the damage dealt by this skill by 7%= 15% total reduction (like PvP and WvW were reduced back in March)

So this is why the October 2nd notes read:"•Double Strike: This skill is no longer split between PvP and WvW and will now use the lower 8% value in all game modes.•Wild Strike: This skill is no longer split between PvE and competitive modes and will now use the lower 7% value in all game modes."

Sadly, though, I still think the Dagger AA hits like a wet noodle and wish it would be reverted back to its pre-March damage. :+1:

Hope this helps.

Maliscouse back stab does 10% per malice stack so let's nerf the AA.

@ParanoidKami.2867 said:They keep on nerfing it so D/P can't 1v1 or spike kill as easily. The unfortunate side affect of nerfing the auto-attack and relying on your abilities is that you will need to focus more on dodges and initiative. It pushes D/P heavily into Trickery and Daredevil now to do anything. Non-meta builds suffer.

D/P could have never 1v1ed in the first place, let alone easily. With an exception to enemy Thief of course.

@Krypto.2069 said:

Now ALL game modes are the same, which means the PvE version got a lot of its juice back:**Quite the opposite actually, what they did was move the lowest damage versions of the aa skills to pvp and wvw, which means they now use the lower 19% and 18% versions; hence why i said the aa got nerfed by 37%.nothing changed with the pve version of the aa it is the same as it was the lowest damaging version of the aa

Makes me wonder too. Why punish whole class instead of certain elite profession.

Side topic but do you think they may be nerfing dagger aa to try and force daredevil to use staff inn pvp/wvw?I thought this change was done just to reduce the number of split skills to make newer players less 'confused', but then on second glance you get:Facet of Nature: Reduced the energy cost of this skill from 3 to 2 in PvE and WvWChill of Death—Lesser Spinal Shivers: The damage of this trait has been reduced by 30% in PvP and WvW

They are still splitting skills. so why change the aa? I doubt they did it accidentally and no one was complaining about non rifle thieves so the only conclusion is they want to force a different build on daredevil (again because dd is the only build that uses d/p as the primary set) or in preparation for a new elite spec for thief that would have to compete with d/p with its melee weapon.

@foste.3098 said:

@Krypto.2069 said:

Now

ALL

game modes are the same, which means the PvE version got a lot of its juice back:**Quite the opposite actually, what they did was move the lowest damage versions of the aa skills to pvp and wvw, which means they now use the lower 19% and 18% versions; hence why i said the aa got nerfed by 37%.nothing changed with the pve version of the aa it is the same as it was the lowest damaging version of the aa

Wow. I am going to play and see the dmg tonight. If it is actually 37% I am straight up quitting thief. I main d/p marauder set. Best normal crit is 4k at best. Most dmg is around 2k to even some 1.5k

37% reduction is basically unplayable. Decapping being the entire class is already retarded. The +1 aspect was what kept it fun for me. Basically doing zero dmg while other class's auto attacks do some 5-7k is really... What the...

I ve been slowly practicing holosmith. Looks like I am going to go to a full transition. An assassin genre class that does no dmg. Who wants to play that lol.

@foste.3098 said:Side topic but do you think they may be nerfing dagger aa to try and force daredevil to use staff inn pvp/wvw?I thought this change was done just to reduce the number of split skills to make newer players less 'confused', but then on second glance you get:Facet of Nature: Reduced the energy cost of this skill from 3 to 2 in PvE and WvWChill of Death—Lesser Spinal Shivers: The damage of this trait has been reduced by 30% in PvP and WvW

They are still splitting skills. so why change the aa? I doubt they did it accidentally and no one was complaining about non rifle thieves so the only conclusion is they want to force a different build on daredevil (again because dd is the only build that uses d/p as the primary set) or in preparation for a new elite spec for thief that would have to compete with d/p with its melee weapon.

If it results in variation in roles then I'm all for it. Being forced into decap or getting salt from your team constantly is boring after 4 years.

Meanwhile Holo defensive buffs and IP got its lifesteal buffed :lol:

And people insist that they don't balance around PvE...

Imo they are trying to weaken DD enough so ppl stopped playing it because they are about to make som new elite that is basically going to be DD dressed as something else. I dunno what yet. Also i am very disapointed with this. I came to game two years ago. And i saw the change. It was first bad. Then it became unberable. I just wish we could get the game back to the state when i started palying. in terms of efficiency it was 100% better than it is now.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Meanwhile Holo defensive buffs and IP got its lifesteal buffed :lol:

And people insist that they don't balance around PvE...The effect of the IP buff is mostly psychological, it doesn't really have any profound impact on the balancing itself.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@ParanoidKami.2867 said:They keep on nerfing it so D/P can't 1v1 or spike kill as easily. The unfortunate side affect of nerfing the auto-attack and relying on your abilities is that you will need to focus more on dodges and initiative. It pushes D/P heavily into Trickery and Daredevil now to do anything. Non-meta builds suffer.

@ParanoidKami.2867 said:They keep on nerfing it so D/P can't 1v1 or spike kill as easily. The unfortunate side affect of nerfing the auto-attack and relying on your abilities is that you will need to focus more on dodges and initiative. It pushes D/P heavily into Trickery and Daredevil now to do anything. Non-meta builds suffer.

Not true. They can win if they use their mobility and bursts while waiting for the enemy defensive skills to go on cooldown. Fights aren't quick and you don't stay on point so it's a waste of time.