[Help] vs Thieves and Mesmers

While I usually get fair fights against any profession, I get instantly destroyed when I face those 2 (+ their specs), they just kite/stealth away from me and I can't do anything but die :/Any suggestion?

Those 2 professions are indeed the worst match for warrior, your best bet is using CC followed by a burst and absolutely use Spellbreaker if you own PoF, Full Counter is a lifesaver on top of dealing a fair amount of damage and interrupt. Also knowing the build you play would help us to make suggestions.

you can survive vs a thief or a mesmer if you dodge/block their bursts consistently (hard cause they burst from stealth) and keep your adrenal health stacks up (hard vs thief easy vs any mesmer spec) but you won't ever kill a good thief or mesmer with a warrior. Warrior has far too many telegraphed attacks with long cast times. Both classes have plenty of defense mechanisms against a melee only opponent. The mix of instant cast/ teleport/ invis and short invul time frame abilites gives them a tool to (theoretically) deal with any attack you throw against them.It does not really matter how good you are on you warrior because you cannot react to instant cast abilites or a thief backstab from stealth (with some exp you can anticipate their attacks but that's it). The outcome of the fight depends mostly on the enemy player because he/she won't lose if they do not make mistakes. And thiefs/mesmers have plenty of failsafe cards if something goes wrong.

I play both thief and mesmer, not sure why i came to warrior forum but..

You wont kill a good thief. Warriors are easy to read. The thief wont necissarily kill you either unless you both actually commit to the duel.You win the melee fight but the thief chooses when to go in and not. The best way to beat a thief is to make him greedy and punish him for it.

You shouldnt have as much trouble against mesmers though, except viper/trailblazer/dire mesmers. You can just outrun a condimesmer if you get bored of them. The trickiest ones are probably the ones running the new flavour of staff/scepter+torch, scepter+pistol/sword+torch due to dealing alot of damage by simply blocking with incredibly low cd and evading your slow animations.

My scepter block is on about 4sec CD and applies 5 stacks of HARD torment (deals slightly over 5k damage if you move during its duration) and summons a clone.

TLDR: if they're good you're wrecked - if they're bad you can beat them by playing goodif equally skilled you should lose more than 60% os the time or they will just run away and come back later :) super engaging

Yep, literally Thief and Mesmer at this point is realistically impossible to catch even in sPvP if they play well.

Like you could literally run in a straight line and dodge all of the Warrior auto-attacks, Mesmer and Thief don't really suffer that because they have instant damage or gap closers

And then you get garbage Mesmer mains who actually have no idea how to fight Warrior or any of it's specs in 2018 and ANET caters to them.

Both are our biggest counters in PvP....

For thief, your only way to kill them is to CC them with bullcharge/shield bash at the right moment and burst them down, otherwise they will easily disengage and you will never catch up to them.

For Mesmers the same idea as above, only you need get through all the illusions, a well timed GS3 with sigil of intelligence can clear the clone mess and if your faster, you can follow up with CC and burst on the mesmer himself.Again, easier said than done, but it works in some cases.Against good mesmer/thief players, we are still the underdogs though....

Depends what theif build they use. As a melee thief, All evaded weapon skills have a short window of no evade to interrupt, like 1/4 of a second or so, it's not easy but you land shield bash into vault/flanking strike/death blossom right at the end of the skill, not to mention they are also locked into that skill animation too. Can't say much for spvp but in wvw keep the gap closed, or kite towards where they ported from using rush and whirlwind attack, some warrior use sword as well as he so there is an extra leap (shadow step/infiltration strike) no thief likes to have warrior smashing in their face in so the more pressure you put on the better. With out iniaitve thief can't do anything so make sure to dodge income attacks (most will come from range)

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Depends what theif build they use. As a melee thief, All evaded weapon skills have a short window of no evade to interrupt, like 1/4 of a second or so, it's not easy but you land shield bash into vault/flanking strike/death blossom right at the end of the skill, not to mention they are also locked into that skill animation too. Can't say much for spvp but in wvw keep the gap closed, or kite towards where they ported from using rush and whirlwind attack, some warrior use sword as well as he so there is an extra leap (shadow step/infiltration strike) no thief likes to have warrior smashing in their face in so the more pressure you put on the better. With out iniaitve thief can't do anything so make sure to dodge income attacks (most will come from range)

hm as a warrior you should do the opposite in wvw imo. Do not follow the thief with rush and ww attack and instead take the opposite direction. A warrior won't catch a thief anyway. That way the thief has to waste initiative/cds to follow the warrior if he wants to continue the fight and that gives the warrior a little advantage.

And you should only ever try to shield bash into thief vault when you have invuls up because one vault hit easily deals 15k-20k dmg and you prob won't recover from that. And most of the time it is not even worth trying to do that because daredevil still has a 16 sec stunbreak/block/knockdown so even if you hit your stun the thief has always a stunbreak ready and is able to block any follow-up burst without even having to waste a dodge. Most of the time when you see a daredevil in wvw don't even bother with them because they are basicly immune to warriors anyway.

How do warrior players deal with skilled condi mesmers in ranked games in the higher leagues?Do you just rotate around them and avoid fights?

Thieves are never a problem for me. As I play one, I kind figure if they can't kill me they'll just fly away. Mesmers on the other hand, especially Condi Mirages... it's a 50/50 chance I'll win, depending on how I rotate/luck. Spell breakers fortunately are one of the few classes that can go head to head with Condi Mirages.

Lol, as a warrior, thief is definitely a winnable fight. As base warrior your damage output can outsustain a good thief if you time attacks right. As SB you just have to be careful to time your FCs and be aware that steal can interupt FC. Very winnable fight.Vs mesmer, it can be a bit harder, especially vs condi.

Warrior vs Thief is generally considered to favor the warrior in most cases when in melee. There are some thief builds which mathematically can't even win. That said, if the thief is really good, it can take over the fight if it plays perfectly and makes an outplay. There's a bunch of videos out there for thieves made by some pro-level thieves about this matchup because it's such an intense matchup from the thief perspective.

If you're in WvW, SA rifle permastealth DE can take down almost anything 1v1 in open-field with unlimited kiting distance. It's just an unfortunate truth, really.

Warrior vs Mirage gets a lot harder because the Mirage can't be successfully punished/CC'ed which makes for a big struggle when you're depending on lockdowns and setting up burst. They can also give you the warrior treatment in that they can be immune to damage while dealing damage and are still quite mobile. Only way to really win here is to track their dodges and play on the defensive during their uses of Mirage Cloak, and then follow up with damage when they can't dodge. This gets difficult in WvW because of might on dodge food, which increases their endurance regen by 40%, giving them a 1s dodge every 5 seconds or so.

After the shield bash nerf in May 2017 increasing the cast time from 0.5 sec to 0.75 sec it became incredibly difficult to lock down a daredevil.

Unfortunately, Warrior vs thief or mesmer is not an even fight. Thief and mesmer are extremely OP against warrior and here are the reason why:

• They have access to extreme mobility. What I mean by extreme mobility is that they can jump/teleport to hills and bridges. They can even attack you withno line of sight by teleporting right at you.
• They have endless stunbreakers
• They have endless evades
• They have access to extreme stealth. Even if you manage to reveal a thief, they will most likely remove the reveal by using the elite skill.

As a warrior if you can't see things and if you can't keep a distance of 130 units from your enemy you already lost the battle.As a warrior, every time I see a thief, I run away and make him chase me. He has to use mobility skills and spend initiative, then I turn around and fight them, that makes them retreat. When they retreat I run again and make them chase me again, this goes on like this forever until I manage to get inside a tower.

Never chase a thief if you are a warrior. Even if the thief is a noob, you will never catch up with him.You have been warned!

Not sure if this for pvp or not, but if so you can "beat" these classes by other means. If they go for a stealth burst you can go to a kite spot off node and then return to the node once they are revealed.

Pending on the particular situation, you end up "winning" the matchup if you own the node while they try and stealth/range you down. So use terrain to your advantage in that case if you can.

thieves are no problem.
mirage though is ok if they're bad but a good mirage player is just too much.

Speaking about wvw, against thief, reroll power rifle berserker, on my mark on skill bar. While roaming i can win something like 7/10 against thief (and i'm not a good roamer), they basically melt.Condi Mirage are quite a pain in the ass.