A question about golems (spoilers) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

A question about golems (spoilers)

eduardo.1436eduardo.1436 Member ✭✭✭

Blish says that he can't be branded due to being a golem. Was it ever established that golems can't be branded? Sylvari are immune due to technically being Dragon Minions, and Djinn have to protect themselves with their shield otherwise poof! What makes golems resistant? is it their materials? DERVS make us immune to branded attacks. Or is it because they are technically "mindless" by design? But then again we have Blish who is just a golem only in body, and o-Tron who is basically a sentient golem. Make us a fast-moving golem suit!

Or if possible maybe bring a certain two characters from specific Asura-story-choices into the battlefield as a fun nod to personal story?

Comments

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My 2 cents is it's similar to Zhaitan's raising of the Orrian undeads

    The Elder Dragons corrupt physical bodies of living beings or used to be, but the souls and minds are not corrupted but trapped and override by Elder Dragon's conscious; Similar to Greed in Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood.

    But when the corrupted body is destroyed, the soul is freed as we seen in Personal Story.

    Because golems are not living to begin with, so the physical body cannot be corrupted and taken controlled of.

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
  • @eduardo.1436 said:
    Blish says that he can't be branded due to being a golem. Was it ever established that golems can't be branded? Sylvari are immune due to technically being Dragon Minions, and Djinn have to protect themselves with their shield otherwise poof! What makes golems resistant? is it their materials? DERVS make us immune to branded attacks. Or is it because they are technically "mindless" by design? But then again we have Blish who is just a golem only in body, and o-Tron who is basically a sentient golem. Make us a fast-moving golem suit!

    So it's not explicitly stated, but in Edge of Destiny it's how Zojja and Snaff avoid being branded by Kralkatorrik (the others went hiding in niches and crevices, much like Sun's Refuge), and in Path of Fire we see Snaff's golem he was in which only looks caked with crystal rather than full out crystal-covered. Golems aren't explicitly immune, just highly resistant, and it likely deals with how they're constructs and not living beings or the environment.

    DERVS are immune due to how they're created; it isn't explained explicitly, just that they have "anti-Brand synergy", but in Pact Vanguard ambient dialogue it's explained they're made by the Inquest based on their branded research at Rata Primus, and they run on branded crystals (hence why throwing crystals at them regenerates their health).

    Most likely, this is a situation limited to Kralkatorrik, and golems are not immune to other dragons' corruptions - or at least, Primordus' corruptions, since he focuses on corrupting environment into minions while Kralk and Jormag focus on the living.

    Sylvari are NOT immune due to being dragon minions, this is a common misconception born out of a hypotheticals from before their reveal that has been debunked despite back in Season 2 and during Heart of Thorns promotions. Rallying Call, Hidden Arcana, and after the reveal, HoT promotions like this all state that it is the "protection of the Pale Tree" which sylvari can cut off (those who become Soundless) - in other words, it isn't their origins, but their connection to the Dream of Dreams which gives them protection.

  • Rognik.2579Rognik.2579 Member ✭✭✭

    One common thing of all the things we have seen Branded, or corrupted by any of the dragons, is that they all are alive in some degree or another. Golems are not alive, nor has metal been corrupted in any way that I've seen. This is why a golem can't be corrupted.

  • before the absorption of Zaïthan and Mordremoth specific magic Primordius didn't corrupt living things. He create from the earth alone new minion and if I remember correctly Primordius after this absorption didn't use this corruption on living things, he just add more power at his minion.

    P.S: sorry for my english, it's not my mother tongue ^^'

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    Sylvari are NOT immune due to being dragon minions, this is a common misconception born out of a hypotheticals from before their reveal that has been debunked despite back in Season 2 and during Heart of Thorns promotions. Rallying Call, Hidden Arcana, and after the reveal, HoT promotions like this all state that it is the "protection of the Pale Tree" which sylvari can cut off (those who become Soundless) - in other words, it isn't their origins, but their connection to the Dream of Dreams which gives them protection.

    eehmmm. I did not see any 'debunking'. And there are no branded soundless.

    In fact, I remember Sylvari were protected from Mordremoth by the pale tree. not any other dragon.

    Yeah, Rallying Call supports that. Pale Tree's children have been immune to dragon corruption, but she can not shield them completely from Mordremoth. It doesn't even says that she shielded them in the past. Just that she tries to shield them for now - and can't guarantee success.

    In fact non of the links you posted support your position. They all support the 'sylvari are immune from all dragons but Mordremoth. Mordremoth's call is very powerful and the Pale Tree can not guarantee to be able to protect sylvari'.

  • @Rognik.2579 said:
    One common thing of all the things we have seen Branded, or corrupted by any of the dragons, is that they all are alive in some degree or another. Golems are not alive, nor has metal been corrupted in any way that I've seen. This is why a golem can't be corrupted.

    This isn't entirely accurate. We see various branded earth elementals being made out of the ground itself, not just corrupted earth elementals; we see the same for ice elementals, being made out of corrupted ice rather than corrupted ice elementals. The Shatterer, being hollow and with no living counterpart, seems to be a construct of earth; same may be for the Claw of Jormag, though it's bone-looking legs may suggest its a corrupted skeleton or something.

    And then there's Primordus and the DSD who made minions primarily out of earth and water respectively.

    That said, we've not seen any case of "refined metals" being corrupted into minions, even if we get hints of earth being corrupted into branded minions.

    @Lycarian.9627 said:
    before the absorption of Zaïthan and Mordremoth specific magic Primordius didn't corrupt living things. He create from the earth alone new minion and if I remember correctly Primordius after this absorption didn't use this corruption on living things, he just add more power at his minion.

    P.S: sorry for my english, it's not my mother tongue ^^'

    Primordus actually was confirmed via interview to be able to corrupt the living, and in Crucible of Eternity (story mode) we see the Inquests' experiments on making minions, and they created a destroyer troll by exposing a living being to Primordus' corruptive energy (I want to say it was a charr but I may be wrong here).

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    Sylvari are NOT immune due to being dragon minions, this is a common misconception born out of a hypotheticals from before their reveal that has been debunked despite back in Season 2 and during Heart of Thorns promotions. Rallying Call, Hidden Arcana, and after the reveal, HoT promotions like this all state that it is the "protection of the Pale Tree" which sylvari can cut off (those who become Soundless) - in other words, it isn't their origins, but their connection to the Dream of Dreams which gives them protection.

    eehmmm. I did not see any 'debunking'. And there are no branded soundless.

    In fact, I remember Sylvari were protected from Mordremoth by the pale tree. not any other dragon.

    Yeah, Rallying Call supports that. Pale Tree's children have been immune to dragon corruption, but she can not shield them completely from Mordremoth. It doesn't even says that she shielded them in the past. Just that she tries to shield them for now - and can't guarantee success.

    In fact non of the links you posted support your position. They all support the 'sylvari are immune from all dragons but Mordremoth. Mordremoth's call is very powerful and the Pale Tree can not guarantee to be able to protect sylvari'.

    We never see Soundless going near any Elder Dragon's corruption, so of course we see no branded soundless. The debunking are the following lines:

    Pale Tree: There are those who reject my protection. It leaves them vulnerable in ways they cannot imagine, in ways they never were before. I shield you as best I can and will for as long as I can.
    Sylvari Commander: You're talking about dragon corruption. We've been immune to it.
    Pale Tree: Yes. In the past, my children have been immune. But Mordremoth's corruption is powerful, and just as Zhaitan created the undead from so many creatures, so Mordremoth's corruption can change you.
    Sylvari Commander: Scarlet?
    Pale Tree: I believe she opened herself to it when she let down the wall of her mind. Mordremoth's corruption seeps in through the cracks in our willpower. Do not follow in her footsteps.

    Ogden Stonehealer: You refer to Scarlet and Aerin. Similar symptoms. Yes.
    Ogden Stonehealer: I am no expert, but they're immature as a race. Their concept of nightmare and Dream is simplistic at best.
    Ogden Stonehealer: Too black and white, too unsophisticated to explain the changes affecting some of them.
    Ogden Stonehealer: The Pale Tree is said to protect them from the corruption of the other dragons. They both rejected her, no?
    Ogden Stonehealer: It makes sense that sylvari would be vulnerable to Mordremoth, a plant-based being like themselves.

    The Elder Dragon can implant thoughts in its creations—thoughts they may even believe to be their own—and only a combination of immense willpower and the protection of the Pale Tree can prevent Mordremoth from taking control. Sylvari receive calls to action in the form of the Wyld Hunt—or the Dark Hunt, for Nightmare Courtiers—and these compulsions act as an access point for Mordremoth’s influence.

    The Pale Tree's protection protects against the Elder Dragons besides Mordremoth. Though it does help defend against Mordremoth as well, it is insufficient alone because of his connection to the Dream of Dreams, his method of attacking sylvari. The first two lines are from Season 2, so the reason why Mordremoth would be able to influence sylvari was suspected / suggested to be because sylvari are plants, we learned that was a red herring.

    You say Rallying Call doesn't talk about protection in the past, but it explicitly talks about the protection being in the past, and not being able to protect against Mordremoth.

    They all support the 'sylvari are immune from all dragons but Mordremoth. Mordremoth's call is very powerful and the Pale Tree can not guarantee to be able to protect sylvari'.

    They are indeed immune to all dragons but Mordremoth. Because of their connection to the Dream; I never argued against what your saying I did. I argued against the supposed reason for the sylvari's immunity.

    People think sylvari are immune because they're dragon minions, but this is false. They're immune because of "the Pale Tree's protection" - e.g., the Dream - which Mordremoth can circumvent - because he is also tied to the Dream.

  • xoz.2481xoz.2481 Member ✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    People think sylvari are immune because they're dragon minions, but this is false. They're immune because of "the Pale Tree's protection" - e.g., the Dream - which Mordremoth can circumvent - because he is also tied to the Dream.

    While I think this is considered canon as of now, I kind of think that it was retconned in during season 2. I say this because while the soundless were only explicitly stated to be in the Caledon Forest (Which apart for a few risen here and there has a fairly low exposure to dragon corruption), I find it somewhat unlikely that not a single one was exposed to dragon corruption at some point, especially during the campaign in Orr.

    This leads me to think that the Devs hadn't nailed down why the Sylvari were immune to corruption at that point.

  • @xoz.2481 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    People think sylvari are immune because they're dragon minions, but this is false. They're immune because of "the Pale Tree's protection" - e.g., the Dream - which Mordremoth can circumvent - because he is also tied to the Dream.

    While I think this is considered canon as of now, I kind of think that it was retconned in during season 2. I say this because while the soundless were only explicitly stated to be in the Caledon Forest (Which apart for a few risen here and there has a fairly low exposure to dragon corruption), I find it somewhat unlikely that not a single one was exposed to dragon corruption at some point, especially during the campaign in Orr.

    This leads me to think that the Devs hadn't nailed down why the Sylvari were immune to corruption at that point.

    remember we were supposed to get soundless arc in HOT but it got dropped off because AN "couldn't do it justice, while having desired scope"

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018

    @xoz.2481 said:

    While I think this is considered canon as of now, I kind of think that it was retconned in during season 2. I say this because while the soundless were only explicitly stated to be in the Caledon Forest (Which apart for a few risen here and there has a fairly low exposure to dragon corruption), I find it somewhat unlikely that not a single one was exposed to dragon corruption at some point, especially during the campaign in Orr.

    I don't see it as unlikely. It's more than that they were only in Caledon- they were never more than a single small community, and that's without factoring in their losses to the Nightmare Court. Every sylvari there wound up on that island because they wanted to withdraw from the world and be left in peace, and if they were forced to fight, there was a much more immediate threat launching attacks against them. It'd be a very strange Soundless indeed who left all of that behind to join the Pact in Orr.

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @xoz.2481 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    People think sylvari are immune because they're dragon minions, but this is false. They're immune because of "the Pale Tree's protection" - e.g., the Dream - which Mordremoth can circumvent - because he is also tied to the Dream.

    While I think this is considered canon as of now, I kind of think that it was retconned in during season 2. I say this because while the soundless were only explicitly stated to be in the Caledon Forest (Which apart for a few risen here and there has a fairly low exposure to dragon corruption), I find it somewhat unlikely that not a single one was exposed to dragon corruption at some point, especially during the campaign in Orr.

    This leads me to think that the Devs hadn't nailed down why the Sylvari were immune to corruption at that point.

    remember we were supposed to get soundless arc in HOT but it got dropped off because AN "couldn't do it justice, while having desired scope"

    Not a Soundless arc, a Malyck arc. Based off a tweet from around HoT's launch, the Soundless were just a narrative red herring- they may or may not have been more vulnerable early on, but even if they were, the damage to the Pale Tree in the middle of S2 leveled the playing field. It doesn't seem they ever intended their part in the story to be larger than highlighting the Tree/Dream's role in protecting the Dreamers.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @xoz.2481 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    People think sylvari are immune because they're dragon minions, but this is false. They're immune because of "the Pale Tree's protection" - e.g., the Dream - which Mordremoth can circumvent - because he is also tied to the Dream.

    While I think this is considered canon as of now, I kind of think that it was retconned in during season 2. I say this because while the soundless were only explicitly stated to be in the Caledon Forest (Which apart for a few risen here and there has a fairly low exposure to dragon corruption), I find it somewhat unlikely that not a single one was exposed to dragon corruption at some point, especially during the campaign in Orr.

    This leads me to think that the Devs hadn't nailed down why the Sylvari were immune to corruption at that point.

    remember we were supposed to get soundless arc in HOT but it got dropped off because AN "couldn't do it justice, while having desired scope"

    Not a Soundless arc, a Malyck arc. Based off a tweet from around HoT's launch, the Soundless were just a narrative red herring- they may or may not have been more vulnerable early on, but even if they were, the damage to the Pale Tree in the middle of S2 leveled the playing field. It doesn't seem they ever intended their part in the story to be larger than highlighting the Tree/Dream's role in protecting the Dreamers.

    ah right my bad, these bits of lore were untouched for so long that I messed up "other tree guy" with soundless xD

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