Signet of Midnight Should be Nerfed

Every other signet skill in the game that enhances a specific stat for its passive effect provides a flat +180 bonus. Signet of Midnight improves condition duration, but rather than providing +180 to expertise which would be consistent with other signets, it provides +20% condition duration. At 15 points of expertise per 1% condition duration increase, this means that Signet of Midnight effectively provides +300 to the expertise stat, a whopping ~67% more powerful than other comparable signet passives. The Signet of Midnight passive effect needs to be changed to +180 to expertise, or equivalently +12% condition duration, so that it is no longer overpowered.

Yes I'm sure that that 8% extra condition duration is what's really giving condi Mirage the edge in a fight. This is clearly not pointless nitpicking at anything Mesmer or probably more accurately Mirage purely out of spite.

@Waffler.1257 said:Every other signet skill in the game that enhances a specific stat for it’s passive effect provides a flat +180 bonus. Signet of Midnight improves condition duration, but rather than providing +180 to expertise which would be consistent with other signets, it provides +20% condition duration. At 15 points of expertise per 1% condition duration increase, this means that Signet of Midnight effectively provides +300 to the expertise stat, a whopping ~67% more powerful than other comparable signet passives. The Signet of Midnight passive effect needs to be changed to +180 to expertise, or equivalently +12% condition duration, so that it is no longer overpowered.

i can say, it's mostly used for aoe blind, ez breakstun, ez 1s stealth ( usable during actions). can even have 1sec distortion and 6 condi cleasens if traited.

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Yes I'm sure that that 8% extra condition duration is what's really giving condi Mirage the edge in a fight. This is clearly not pointless nitpicking at anything Mesmer or probably more accurately Mirage purely out of spite.

While that is indeed the most probable reason, he's kinda right. Why have an outlier on an already strong class?

I was waiting for a new mesmer QQ train after EM finally got nerfed to the ground. Never cease to amaze me...theres always something lol. There's wayyyy more important things to look into balance wise than this

inb4 I dont use this siggy and believe condi mirages are mirages that don't know how to mirage properly.

because it's anet's favourite class.

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:I was waiting for a new mesmer QQ train after EM finally got nerfed to the ground. Never cease to amaze me...theres always something lol. There's wayyyy more important things to look into balance wise than this

inb4 I dont use this siggy and believe condi mirages are mirages that don't know how to mirage properly.

Well, I believe mirages are mesmers who don't know how to mesmer properly... :wink: I like mesmer, but I don't like mirage.

The rest is kinda true though. They keep doing the wrong nerfs/changes, but, well, who am I to judge as a long time ele main...

Objectively you're correct, it should be normalised to an expertise gain.

(see, mesmers aren't all about whining and crying in defence)

@Curunen.8729 said:Objectively you're correct, it should be normalised to an expertise gain.

(see, mesmers aren't all about whining and crying in defence)

And honestly it wouldn't change the reason mesmers take it ????

@jportell.2197 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:Objectively you're correct, it should be normalised to an expertise gain.

(see, mesmers aren't all about whining and crying in defence)

Oh yeah I agree given it's taken for the active (since decoy is dead), and I also agree that the OP does seem as additional spite though in a vacuum it has merit - just wanted to highlight for the anti-mesmer folk. ;)

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Yes I'm sure that that 8% extra condition duration is what's really giving condi Mirage the edge in a fight. This is clearly not pointless nitpicking at anything Mesmer or probably more accurately Mirage purely out of spite.

Does it matter what his reason for pointing this out is? He is right none the less.

@Waffler.1257 said:Every other signet skill in the game that enhances a specific stat for its passive effect provides a flat +180 bonus. Signet of Midnight improves condition duration, but rather than providing +180 to expertise which would be consistent with other signets, it provides +20% condition duration. At 15 points of expertise per 1% condition duration increase, this means that Signet of Midnight effectively provides +300 to the expertise stat, a whopping ~67% more powerful than other comparable signet passives. The Signet of Midnight passive effect needs to be changed to +180 to expertise, or equivalently +12% condition duration, so that it is no longer overpowered.

Why is this in sPvP section? This is purely a PvE issue (if it is and it is not). And not every class has the same tools. Mirage dps in PvE is not over performing by any stretch.

The only purpose of this skill in sPvP is blind and CC break.

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:I was waiting for a new mesmer QQ train after EM finally got nerfed to the ground. Never cease to amaze me...theres always something lol. There's wayyyy more important things to look into balance wise than this

inb4 I dont use this siggy and believe condi mirages are mirages that don't know how to mirage properly.

Can't argue that lol. My mesmer was created for Portal bombing in WvW and golem porting. When I started mirage, i went condi as it was easier. Saw how much of a crutch set up condi mirages were (When I am constantly winning 2v, 3v's as a scrub mirage...theres a problem) so went a non meta, non oneshot (unless you are light armor, full zerk) DPS build. Same fun (as I am still using axe with my DPS build).

I can say that I probably couldn't mesmer properly lol (albeit I havent really tried lately)

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Yes I'm sure that that 8% extra condition duration is what's really giving condi Mirage the edge in a fight. This is clearly not pointless nitpicking at anything Mesmer or probably more accurately Mirage purely out of spite.

Because what actually is the point of changing it, a self righteous sense of parity? Cleanses are just as over the top as the confusion burst on Mirage so it's not about the attrition fight and I don't think an extra .36 vs. .6 extra seconds of confusion is what the problem is either. As mentioned by Otto it's purely a PvE based nerf.

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Yes I'm sure that that 8% extra condition duration is what's really giving condi Mirage the edge in a fight. This is clearly not pointless nitpicking at anything Mesmer or probably more accurately Mirage purely out of spite.

Then the post should be changed to the mesmer forum. That aside, it still gives an unfair amount of stat bonus compared to other stat increasing signets, hence the original argument to nerf it.

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Yes I'm sure that that 8% extra condition duration is what's really giving condi Mirage the edge in a fight. This is clearly not pointless nitpicking at anything Mesmer or probably more accurately Mirage purely out of spite.

If it gave an inordinate boost to character power then it would be unfair. Nerfing it simply for the sake of number parity is pedantry. Balance should be more contextual than the simple equalization of numbers for its own sake.

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Yes I'm sure that that 8% extra condition duration is what's really giving condi Mirage the edge in a fight. This is clearly not pointless nitpicking at anything Mesmer or probably more accurately Mirage purely out of spite.

Consider they nerfed condition food for exactly this reason. It gave a percent bonus in condition duration, and was changed sometime after they introduced expertise to bring it in line. I would also argue they should do the same for runes.

Agree with OP. A while back, many passive traits that gave stat buffs while in combat were all normalized including ones that clearly weren't that impactful. -8% condi duration from this signet isn't going to hurt condi mesmers noticeably, and this is a very very easy nerf/change to make.

@Waffler.1257 said:Every other signet skill in the game that enhances a specific stat for its passive effect provides a flat +180 bonus. Signet of Midnight improves condition duration, but rather than providing +180 to expertise which would be consistent with other signets, it provides +20% condition duration. At 15 points of expertise per 1% condition duration increase, this means that Signet of Midnight effectively provides +300 to the expertise stat, a whopping ~67% more powerful than other comparable signet passives. The Signet of Midnight passive effect needs to be changed to +180 to expertise, or equivalently +12% condition duration, so that it is no longer overpowered.

Wrong.

Try comparing like with like, the mesmer signet that is for increasing the condition stat is domination which adds 180, midnight is for duration which adds 20% just like signet of water on ele reduces incoming duration for 20%.

I've never even used that signet in PvP, I always preferred Decoy for the extra stealth duration which I make a lot of use of when moving from base to base or initiating a fight.

I agree with the change, but tbh this thread belongs in Mesmer forum, not here. No one takes Signet of midnight for its condi duration and any sensible person who at least smart enough to look at wiki would know the reason. OP fully well aware of posting PvP forum only attract people who wanted more nerf.

Probably > @Arcaedus.7290 said:

Agree with OP. A while back, many passive traits that gave stat buffs while in combat were all normalized including ones that clearly weren't that impactful. -8% condi duration from this signet isn't going to hurt condi mesmers noticeably, and this is a very very easy nerf/change to make.

It's a pretty big change for a class whose primary damage build is barely holding on in PvE.

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:I was waiting for a new mesmer QQ train after EM finally got nerfed to the ground. Never cease to amaze me...theres always something lol. There's wayyyy more important things to look into balance wise than this

inb4 I dont use this siggy and believe condi mirages are mirages that don't know how to mirage properly.

I think everyone knows it gets taken for other purposes and I run Decoy instead if I'm not running Duelist trait line, so nerrrgh :trollface: :lol:(haven't played it in a while though so not sure if that confusion on blind trait is still there or not)

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Yes I'm sure that that 8% extra condition duration is what's really giving condi Mirage the edge in a fight. This is clearly not pointless nitpicking at anything Mesmer or probably more accurately Mirage purely out of spite.

That's not an accurate comparison as the flat stat increases for food were around 100 or so and expertise hadn't existed yet. This is an example of one food giving an excessive boost compared to other food hence it had to be changed. This Signet does not give an inordinate power boost compared to other signets.

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Yes I'm sure that that 8% extra condition duration is what's really giving condi Mirage the edge in a fight. This is clearly not pointless nitpicking at anything Mesmer or probably more accurately Mirage purely out of spite.

Isn't that exactly what it does though? I personally don't care about if it gets nerfed or not, but the whole point of this thread is the fact that it gives more stats than literally every other signet in the game.