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please stop duelling in WvW!!

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  • samo.1054samo.1054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    as someone have already mentioned above: my only issues with those "duellers" is that they take up map slots without contributing. a very crappy roamer would be better for the server on that map, than even bestest of best duelers that just stays on that one spot 1v1ing people.

    if only there was a map, that falls under rulesets of wvw, but separated from main fighting maps....... oh wait, there is one.

    except for some of duelers in here it's not valid spot because lo and behold "there is nothing in there"

    (I really get argument why not sPvP, but I don't get why you can't move to Obsidian Sanctum and cease to be taking up map slots from people who wants to actually play the mode instead of running "buildcraft testing" - especially in scenarios when both duelers are old good friends sitting on voice chat)

    You're talking as if queues are there in WvW 24/7, when in reality the queues on the borders are for about 2 hours per day on server links with highest population, and most duelers don't even duel at that time.

    So what we're realistically looking at here is that duelists perhaps take up to maybe max 5 spots on a queued map 2 hours per day. I'm sure any server can live with that, so your argument is quite invalid. Don't blow things out of proportion just to try and make a valid point.

    Even if your argument actually had any weight to it, people will play the game the way they want, they are not obliged to "help your server out" in any way. How do you define contribution anyway? You people are seriously nitpicking at stuff without comprehending the bigger picture.

    When you blame a duelist for not contributing to the server, do you also port to every waypoint on the map and count the people afk on the map? Do you see what I mean by nitpicking?

    There's a saying: "Live and let live". It also translates into gaming world. The sooner you people stop sticking your noses into how other people play, the sooner you will stop being frustrated.

    Again, it's up to you, not them.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    as someone have already mentioned above: my only issues with those "duellers" is that they take up map slots without contributing.

    Yeah... Except for every dueler there is at least 10 people AFK in spawn ruining outnumbered, waiting for their "hardcore fighting guild" to start raiding in 1h or more or just queuing EB because they dont know how to fight border havocs without a blue commander holding their hand telling them its going to be alright.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Lord Trejgon.2809Lord Trejgon.2809 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018

    @samo.1054 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    as someone have already mentioned above: my only issues with those "duellers" is that they take up map slots without contributing. a very crappy roamer would be better for the server on that map, than even bestest of best duelers that just stays on that one spot 1v1ing people.

    if only there was a map, that falls under rulesets of wvw, but separated from main fighting maps....... oh wait, there is one.

    except for some of duelers in here it's not valid spot because lo and behold "there is nothing in there"

    (I really get argument why not sPvP, but I don't get why you can't move to Obsidian Sanctum and cease to be taking up map slots from people who wants to actually play the mode instead of running "buildcraft testing" - especially in scenarios when both duelers are old good friends sitting on voice chat)

    You're talking as if queues are there in WvW 24/7, when in reality the queues on the borders are for about 2 hours per day on server links with highest population, and most duelers don't even duel at that time.

    So what we're realistically looking at here is that duelists perhaps take up to maybe max 5 spots on a queued map 2 hours per day. I'm sure any server can live with that, so your argument is quite invalid. Don't blow things out of proportion just to try and make a valid point.

    Even if your argument actually had any weight to it, people will play the game the way they want, they are not obliged to "help your server out" in any way. How do you define contribution anyway? You people are seriously nitpicking at stuff without comprehending the bigger picture.

    When you blame a duelist for not contributing to the server, do you also port to every waypoint on the map and count the people afk on the map? Do you see what I mean by nitpicking?

    There's a saying: "Live and let live". It also translates into gaming world. The sooner you people stop sticking your noses into how other people play, the sooner you will stop being frustrated.

    Again, it's up to you, not them.

    1. afk people are just as bad
    2. "2 hours per day on server links with highest population" I am unsure which regions has that, it is not uncommon over here to get queues for whole duration of primetime - and yes I've seen those "duelers" in this time too, surprise surprise, duelers also tends to have life narrowing time in case "when" they can play.
    3. "they are not obliged to "help your server out" in any way." this is WvWvW game mode, sorry to break it to you (or to be "that guy") but this mode whole PURPOSE is to provide battlefield for eternall full out war. Yes, no one is obliged to participate in it to help server win, but when you are stepping into it you are agreeing to follow ruleset of the mode. by this logic of yours in here I could go on into sPvP and "not be obliged to help out the team to win the match" by doing things irrelevant to the mode itself, and would be just as "fine" - go into sPvP forum and ask them how they would react.
    4. don't get me wrong: I said this is my ONLY issue with them. I am not "blowing things out of proportion" and for most of time when I see them I ignore them, which does not change the fact that it is irritable slightly when I hear half of the guild on voice chat waiting in queue for group up and I notice bunch of folks doing effectively nothing.

    EDIT:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    as someone have already mentioned above: my only issues with those "duellers" is that they take up map slots without contributing.

    Yeah... Except for every dueler there is at least 10 people AFK in spawn ruining outnumbered, waiting for their "hardcore fighting guild" to start raiding in 1h or more or just queuing EB because they dont know how to fight border havocs without a blue commander holding their hand telling them its going to be alright.

    "waiting for their "hardcore fighting guild" to start raiding" yes I have seen quite alot of people witing on wp waiting untill rest of the squad, commander included can even load into map due to queues.....

    " just queuing EB because they dont know how to fight border havocs without a blue commander holding their hand telling them its going to be alright." still more contributing per map slot than most of duellers I have seen.

    also, existance of somthing worse does not invalidate something being bad on it's own - just because afkers are a thing and worse thing, does not justify duellers being pretendious as if they owned the map just as much as people who play the mode as intended (by collectively yelling on forums over a guy who thought is engaging in 2v1, expected it to go by 2v1 scenario, but got left out by the other guy, resulting in his death, because "hurrdurr he interfered in honoraburu duelz!" and got irritated by that enought to make a post of it on the forum)

  • Reh.5986Reh.5986 Member ✭✭

    Fine with dueling in WVW. Just don't cry in chat if you're dueling somewhere weird and get +1d, ganked or trucked by a blob. There are actually some really nice spots for it on the BLs and some more risky spots on each side of SM.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    also, existance of somthing worse does not invalidate something being bad on it's own - just because afkers are a thing and worse thing, does not justify duellers being pretendious as if they owned the map just as much as people who play the mode as intended (by collectively yelling on forums over a guy who thought is engaging in 2v1, expected it to go by 2v1 scenario, but got left out by the other guy, resulting in his death, because "hurrdurr he interfered in honoraburu duelz!" and got irritated by that enought to make a post of it on the forum)

    You said that the only issue was that they take up map slot and dont contribute, when in fact they are probably less than 10% of the players contributing nothing when considering people standing afk. In fact I think its more like less than 1% if you where to count hours people duel vs hours people stand in spawn across all servers.

    Thats akin to saying my only issue with stealth is that warriors can blast finish a rangers smoke field, on the subject of thieves.

    If you begin talking about the attitude of so called duelers then we are talking about another issue. But tbh, I still think they are outclassed by a couple of seconds of /team. The existance of sonething worse puts things in perspective

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    also, existance of somthing worse does not invalidate something being bad on it's own - just because afkers are a thing and worse thing, does not justify duellers being pretendious as if they owned the map just as much as people who play the mode as intended (by collectively yelling on forums over a guy who thought is engaging in 2v1, expected it to go by 2v1 scenario, but got left out by the other guy, resulting in his death, because "hurrdurr he interfered in honoraburu duelz!" and got irritated by that enought to make a post of it on the forum)

    You said that the only issue was that they take up map slot and dont contribute, when in fact they are probably less than 10% of the players contributing nothing when considering people standing afk. In fact I think its more like less than 1%.

    Thats akin to saying my only issue with stealth is that warriors can blast finish a rangers smoke field, on the subject of thieves.

    Your paralel in here does not apply.

    if you really want to compare it to things this way it'd be more like me saying - on the subject of thieves, that I'm "only" irritated with, let's say torment output of condi thief, with hypothetical other class/build dishing out way more than that of this specific condition. (I'd prolly name specific class build, but I do not play much classes with access to torment per se, to name something dishing out more of it than my condi tief build with 100% sureness it DOES :P)

    and maybe you've never run into situation where duelers were present on map and your guild raid commander was stuck on queue, but I have experienced few of these. more so I have even seen once a situation when border was full, couple of guys were "honoraburu duelling" on the side, and only "afk" people were... my guildmates waiting for commander to load in.

    again, just because X is on average bigger contribution to a problem does not make Y innocent on the case.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    and maybe you've never run into situation where duelers were present on map and your guild raid commander was stuck on queue, but I have experienced few of these. more so I have even seen once a situation when border was full, couple of guys were "honoraburu duelling" on the side, and only "afk" people were... my guildmates waiting for commander to load in.

    Cant say I have, because 5-10 people have never impacted the success of our guilds and zergs fighting the enemy guilds and zergs.

    The only issue I have seen is when our raid guilds decide they want "honoraburu duelling" against the enemy guilds while their zerg instead cap the entire border because we cant defend things when 2 raid guilds are GvGing for an hour and another of our raid guilds stand there watching the whole time waiting for their turn and not saying a peep when our T3 keeps burns and we try to fight 20 vs 60.

    So no, I've never ran into that situation where a couple of duelers affect the whole border.

    Sorry.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Reh.5986 said:
    Fine with dueling in WVW. Just don't cry in chat if you're dueling somewhere weird and get +1d, ganked or trucked by a blob. There are actually some really nice spots for it on the BLs and some more risky spots on each side of SM.

    I don't think any dueler crys if they get ganked, that's part of it.

  • Lord Trejgon.2809Lord Trejgon.2809 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    and maybe you've never run into situation where duelers were present on map and your guild raid commander was stuck on queue, but I have experienced few of these. more so I have even seen once a situation when border was full, couple of guys were "honoraburu duelling" on the side, and only "afk" people were... my guildmates waiting for commander to load in.

    Cant say I have, because 5-10 people have never impacted the success of our guilds and zergs fighting the enemy guilds and zergs.

    The only issue I have seen is when our raid guilds decide they want "honoraburu duelling" against the enemy guilds while their zerg instead cap the entire border because we cant defend things when 2 raid guilds are GvGing for an hour and another of our raid guilds stand there watching the whole time waiting for their turn and not saying a peep when our T3 keeps burns and we try to fight 20 vs 60.

    So no, I've never ran into that situation where a couple of duelers affect the whole border.

    Sorry.

    I never said "whole border" I only explicitelly mentioned my guild's WvW activity.
    and yes 5-10 people may be a huge deal when among those 5-10 people are all of your guild's experienced commanders....

    fair point with GvGs altho I'd argue it's basically dueling but taken to extreme....

    edit:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Reh.5986 said:
    Fine with dueling in WVW. Just don't cry in chat if you're dueling somewhere weird and get +1d, ganked or trucked by a blob. There are actually some really nice spots for it on the BLs and some more risky spots on each side of SM.

    I don't think any dueler crys if they get ganked, that's part of it.

    I think I have seen exacly once, a bunch of duellers complaining about "kitten roamers messing up their honoraburu duelz" at least the one of them that I could see what was writing did.

  • Everyone please stop responding to this thread. The disagreement will never end and I'm tired of getting notifications from it.

    Witchery [YWY] | Maguuma | Diamond Legend

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    and maybe you've never run into situation where duelers were present on map and your guild raid commander was stuck on queue, but I have experienced few of these. more so I have even seen once a situation when border was full, couple of guys were "honoraburu duelling" on the side, and only "afk" people were... my guildmates waiting for commander to load in.

    Cant say I have, because 5-10 people have never impacted the success of our guilds and zergs fighting the enemy guilds and zergs.

    The only issue I have seen is when our raid guilds decide they want "honoraburu duelling" against the enemy guilds while their zerg instead cap the entire border because we cant defend things when 2 raid guilds are GvGing for an hour and another of our raid guilds stand there watching the whole time waiting for their turn and not saying a peep when our T3 keeps burns and we try to fight 20 vs 60.

    So no, I've never ran into that situation where a couple of duelers affect the whole border.

    Sorry.

    I never said "whole border" I only explicitelly mentioned my guild's WvW activity.
    and yes 5-10 people may be a huge deal when among those 5-10 people are all of your guild's experienced commanders....

    fair point with GvGs altho I'd argue it's basically dueling but taken to extreme....

    edit:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Reh.5986 said:
    Fine with dueling in WVW. Just don't cry in chat if you're dueling somewhere weird and get +1d, ganked or trucked by a blob. There are actually some really nice spots for it on the BLs and some more risky spots on each side of SM.

    I don't think any dueler crys if they get ganked, that's part of it.

    I think I have seen exacly once, a bunch of duellers complaining about "kitten roamers messing up their honoraburu duelz" at least the one of them that I could see what was writing did.

    But those 5-10 sitting in spawn waiting for their commander to get in and won't help the border aren't a problem?

    Reality is, no. 5-10 doesn't affect the borders. It can impact some fights, but it won't turn a week. On either side of the equation.

    Funny part is, OP complaining about it here in the forum. Makes no sense.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    and maybe you've never run into situation where duelers were present on map and your guild raid commander was stuck on queue, but I have experienced few of these. more so I have even seen once a situation when border was full, couple of guys were "honoraburu duelling" on the side, and only "afk" people were... my guildmates waiting for commander to load in.

    Cant say I have, because 5-10 people have never impacted the success of our guilds and zergs fighting the enemy guilds and zergs.

    The only issue I have seen is when our raid guilds decide they want "honoraburu duelling" against the enemy guilds while their zerg instead cap the entire border because we cant defend things when 2 raid guilds are GvGing for an hour and another of our raid guilds stand there watching the whole time waiting for their turn and not saying a peep when our T3 keeps burns and we try to fight 20 vs 60.

    So no, I've never ran into that situation where a couple of duelers affect the whole border.

    Sorry.

    I never said "whole border" I only explicitelly mentioned my guild's WvW activity.
    and yes 5-10 people may be a huge deal when among those 5-10 people are all of your guild's experienced commanders....

    fair point with GvGs altho I'd argue it's basically dueling but taken to extreme....

    edit:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Reh.5986 said:
    Fine with dueling in WVW. Just don't cry in chat if you're dueling somewhere weird and get +1d, ganked or trucked by a blob. There are actually some really nice spots for it on the BLs and some more risky spots on each side of SM.

    I don't think any dueler crys if they get ganked, that's part of it.

    I think I have seen exacly once, a bunch of duellers complaining about "kitten roamers messing up their honoraburu duelz" at least the one of them that I could see what was writing did.

    But those 5-10 sitting in spawn waiting for their commander to get in and won't help the border aren't a problem?

    Reality is, no. 5-10 doesn't affect the borders. It can impact some fights, but it won't turn a week. On either side of the equation.

    Funny part is, OP complaining about it here in the forum. Makes no sense.

    who is the bigger problem: the ones who are taking place not intended for them, or the ones rendered unable to act due to chain of command being stuck in the queue...... because of the ones taking place not intended for them?

    and yeah 5-10 zerglings won't make huge change in most scenarios - but when those 5-10s are only people with experience to coordinate rest of the border into usefull group, then we have a problem. And yes I have also seen borders in shambles due to tags on border being utterly clueless on "how" and people experienced on "how" were stuck in the queue for half teh skirmish - and yeah sure you can say that what happened in one skirmish is unlikely to go in scope outside of that skirmish (would not exacly be true tho) but it's still one skirmish lost out of two skirmishes in the timezone when whole group could be assembled.....

    and don;t get me wrong, while this specific case of OP may not be... well... most thought out issue, (assumptions, maybe a bit of l2p and need of ability to move on) main reason why I joined in with my opinion was due of overwhelming amount of people in here pretending it is completely fine to take up from limited space to do things unrelated to the mode - as I tried to underline with example with people joining sPvP matches with no intend to contribute towards their team win in said match.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    and maybe you've never run into situation where duelers were present on map and your guild raid commander was stuck on queue, but I have experienced few of these. more so I have even seen once a situation when border was full, couple of guys were "honoraburu duelling" on the side, and only "afk" people were... my guildmates waiting for commander to load in.

    Cant say I have, because 5-10 people have never impacted the success of our guilds and zergs fighting the enemy guilds and zergs.

    The only issue I have seen is when our raid guilds decide they want "honoraburu duelling" against the enemy guilds while their zerg instead cap the entire border because we cant defend things when 2 raid guilds are GvGing for an hour and another of our raid guilds stand there watching the whole time waiting for their turn and not saying a peep when our T3 keeps burns and we try to fight 20 vs 60.

    So no, I've never ran into that situation where a couple of duelers affect the whole border.

    Sorry.

    I never said "whole border" I only explicitelly mentioned my guild's WvW activity.
    and yes 5-10 people may be a huge deal when among those 5-10 people are all of your guild's experienced commanders....

    fair point with GvGs altho I'd argue it's basically dueling but taken to extreme....

    edit:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Reh.5986 said:
    Fine with dueling in WVW. Just don't cry in chat if you're dueling somewhere weird and get +1d, ganked or trucked by a blob. There are actually some really nice spots for it on the BLs and some more risky spots on each side of SM.

    I don't think any dueler crys if they get ganked, that's part of it.

    I think I have seen exacly once, a bunch of duellers complaining about "kitten roamers messing up their honoraburu duelz" at least the one of them that I could see what was writing did.

    But those 5-10 sitting in spawn waiting for their commander to get in and won't help the border aren't a problem?

    Reality is, no. 5-10 doesn't affect the borders. It can impact some fights, but it won't turn a week. On either side of the equation.

    Funny part is, OP complaining about it here in the forum. Makes no sense.

    who is the bigger problem: the ones who are taking place not intended for them, or the ones rendered unable to act due to chain of command being stuck in the queue...... because of the ones taking place not intended for them?

    and yeah 5-10 zerglings won't make huge change in most scenarios - but when those 5-10s are only people with experience to coordinate rest of the border into usefull group, then we have a problem. And yes I have also seen borders in shambles due to tags on border being utterly clueless on "how" and people experienced on "how" were stuck in the queue for half teh skirmish - and yeah sure you can say that what happened in one skirmish is unlikely to go in scope outside of that skirmish (would not exacly be true tho) but it's still one skirmish lost out of two skirmishes in the timezone when whole group could be assembled.....

    and don;t get me wrong, while this specific case of OP may not be... well... most thought out issue, (assumptions, maybe a bit of l2p and need of ability to move on) main reason why I joined in with my opinion was due of overwhelming amount of people in here pretending it is completely fine to take up from limited space to do things unrelated to the mode - as I tried to underline with example with people joining sPvP matches with no intend to contribute towards their team win in said match.

    Both of the 5-10 who aren't helping are as much of a problem. Those players at spawn are capable of manning seige, repairing a wall, attacking attackers on a tower or keep.

    Sitting is spawn in some ways is a morale killer for those that die and port back to spawn, see people standing around, and not coming to help.

    Both have issues.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    and maybe you've never run into situation where duelers were present on map and your guild raid commander was stuck on queue, but I have experienced few of these. more so I have even seen once a situation when border was full, couple of guys were "honoraburu duelling" on the side, and only "afk" people were... my guildmates waiting for commander to load in.

    Cant say I have, because 5-10 people have never impacted the success of our guilds and zergs fighting the enemy guilds and zergs.

    The only issue I have seen is when our raid guilds decide they want "honoraburu duelling" against the enemy guilds while their zerg instead cap the entire border because we cant defend things when 2 raid guilds are GvGing for an hour and another of our raid guilds stand there watching the whole time waiting for their turn and not saying a peep when our T3 keeps burns and we try to fight 20 vs 60.

    So no, I've never ran into that situation where a couple of duelers affect the whole border.

    Sorry.

    I never said "whole border" I only explicitelly mentioned my guild's WvW activity.
    and yes 5-10 people may be a huge deal when among those 5-10 people are all of your guild's experienced commanders....

    fair point with GvGs altho I'd argue it's basically dueling but taken to extreme....

    edit:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Reh.5986 said:
    Fine with dueling in WVW. Just don't cry in chat if you're dueling somewhere weird and get +1d, ganked or trucked by a blob. There are actually some really nice spots for it on the BLs and some more risky spots on each side of SM.

    I don't think any dueler crys if they get ganked, that's part of it.

    I think I have seen exacly once, a bunch of duellers complaining about "kitten roamers messing up their honoraburu duelz" at least the one of them that I could see what was writing did.

    But those 5-10 sitting in spawn waiting for their commander to get in and won't help the border aren't a problem?

    Reality is, no. 5-10 doesn't affect the borders. It can impact some fights, but it won't turn a week. On either side of the equation.

    Funny part is, OP complaining about it here in the forum. Makes no sense.

    who is the bigger problem: the ones who are taking place not intended for them, or the ones rendered unable to act due to chain of command being stuck in the queue...... because of the ones taking place not intended for them?

    and yeah 5-10 zerglings won't make huge change in most scenarios - but when those 5-10s are only people with experience to coordinate rest of the border into usefull group, then we have a problem. And yes I have also seen borders in shambles due to tags on border being utterly clueless on "how" and people experienced on "how" were stuck in the queue for half teh skirmish - and yeah sure you can say that what happened in one skirmish is unlikely to go in scope outside of that skirmish (would not exacly be true tho) but it's still one skirmish lost out of two skirmishes in the timezone when whole group could be assembled.....

    and don;t get me wrong, while this specific case of OP may not be... well... most thought out issue, (assumptions, maybe a bit of l2p and need of ability to move on) main reason why I joined in with my opinion was due of overwhelming amount of people in here pretending it is completely fine to take up from limited space to do things unrelated to the mode - as I tried to underline with example with people joining sPvP matches with no intend to contribute towards their team win in said match.

    Both of the 5-10 who aren't helping are as much of a problem. Those players at spawn are capable of manning seige, repairing a wall, attacking attackers on a tower or keep.

    Sitting is spawn in some ways is a morale killer for those that die and port back to spawn, see people standing around, and not coming to help.

    Both have issues.

    5-10 players with builds specifically tailored for zerg action will not be of much use outside of that form of engagement, unfortunately.

    as for morale issue - can't speak for all, but if I have seen noticeabel group with same guild tag, on spawn area, while struggling somewhere on the other side of the map, with no tag present in the vincinity, I'd assume that they are a guild grouping up for a raid, waiting for full composition to move out, and I'd actually be uplifted by perspective that perhaps we'll have organized group on border "soon". but that could be mostly because I have a guild for WvW raids so I know from the inside how grouping up for a raid looks like.

    (also in scenarios where queue's are a problem, once commander gets onto the map they tend towant to move out asap without no more time wasted, which makes wandering off from the assembly point risky)

  • @SloRules.3560 said:

    @Lexani.6152 said:

    @SloRules.3560 said:
    Learn some WvW ethic. It formed throughout the years for a reason.

    WvW ethics? You probably kidding me. WvW ethics is to kill your enemy and not betray your ally. You want to spvp, there is full game mode for it...kitten, there is EotM for that, but not wvw.

    To the author. Just do like I do, wait until the enemy low health or downed and simply burst him. If you have fast class as thief etc, keep annoying them with hits, interrupts etc, stomp them.
    You should respect your allies only if they respect you, there are no "ethics" against the enemy.

    So you are one of those idiots that com snipes, jumps into GvGs,... Generaly making life hard for people that want to have fun.

    First, GvG is very different from sPVP. Do you know what sPVP is? You do realise that you can do it in PVP arenas and nobody will disturb you nor you will disturb others? Idiot? Dude...look at the mirror before attacking others...

    WvW: WSR only good when they focus commander and in gangs. Gandara, cloud of pugs without organization.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    Everyone please stop responding to this thread. The disagreement will never end and I'm tired of getting notifications from it.

    If you're getting spammed with notifications, check the nested quotes.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    and maybe you've never run into situation where duelers were present on map and your guild raid commander was stuck on queue, but I have experienced few of these. more so I have even seen once a situation when border was full, couple of guys were "honoraburu duelling" on the side, and only "afk" people were... my guildmates waiting for commander to load in.

    Cant say I have, because 5-10 people have never impacted the success of our guilds and zergs fighting the enemy guilds and zergs.

    The only issue I have seen is when our raid guilds decide they want "honoraburu duelling" against the enemy guilds while their zerg instead cap the entire border because we cant defend things when 2 raid guilds are GvGing for an hour and another of our raid guilds stand there watching the whole time waiting for their turn and not saying a peep when our T3 keeps burns and we try to fight 20 vs 60.

    So no, I've never ran into that situation where a couple of duelers affect the whole border.

    Sorry.

    I never said "whole border" I only explicitelly mentioned my guild's WvW activity.
    and yes 5-10 people may be a huge deal when among those 5-10 people are all of your guild's experienced commanders....

    fair point with GvGs altho I'd argue it's basically dueling but taken to extreme....

    edit:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Reh.5986 said:
    Fine with dueling in WVW. Just don't cry in chat if you're dueling somewhere weird and get +1d, ganked or trucked by a blob. There are actually some really nice spots for it on the BLs and some more risky spots on each side of SM.

    I don't think any dueler crys if they get ganked, that's part of it.

    I think I have seen exacly once, a bunch of duellers complaining about "kitten roamers messing up their honoraburu duelz" at least the one of them that I could see what was writing did.

    But those 5-10 sitting in spawn waiting for their commander to get in and won't help the border aren't a problem?

    Reality is, no. 5-10 doesn't affect the borders. It can impact some fights, but it won't turn a week. On either side of the equation.

    Funny part is, OP complaining about it here in the forum. Makes no sense.

    who is the bigger problem: the ones who are taking place not intended for them, or the ones rendered unable to act due to chain of command being stuck in the queue...... because of the ones taking place not intended for them?

    and yeah 5-10 zerglings won't make huge change in most scenarios - but when those 5-10s are only people with experience to coordinate rest of the border into usefull group, then we have a problem. And yes I have also seen borders in shambles due to tags on border being utterly clueless on "how" and people experienced on "how" were stuck in the queue for half teh skirmish - and yeah sure you can say that what happened in one skirmish is unlikely to go in scope outside of that skirmish (would not exacly be true tho) but it's still one skirmish lost out of two skirmishes in the timezone when whole group could be assembled.....

    and don;t get me wrong, while this specific case of OP may not be... well... most thought out issue, (assumptions, maybe a bit of l2p and need of ability to move on) main reason why I joined in with my opinion was due of overwhelming amount of people in here pretending it is completely fine to take up from limited space to do things unrelated to the mode - as I tried to underline with example with people joining sPvP matches with no intend to contribute towards their team win in said match.

    Both of the 5-10 who aren't helping are as much of a problem. Those players at spawn are capable of manning seige, repairing a wall, attacking attackers on a tower or keep.

    Sitting is spawn in some ways is a morale killer for those that die and port back to spawn, see people standing around, and not coming to help.

    Both have issues.

    5-10 players with builds specifically tailored for zerg action will not be of much use outside of that form of engagement, unfortunately.

    as for morale issue - can't speak for all, but if I have seen noticeabel group with same guild tag, on spawn area, while struggling somewhere on the other side of the map, with no tag present in the vincinity, I'd assume that they are a guild grouping up for a raid, waiting for full composition to move out, and I'd actually be uplifted by perspective that perhaps we'll have organized group on border "soon". but that could be mostly because I have a guild for WvW raids so I know from the inside how grouping up for a raid looks like.

    (also in scenarios where queue's are a problem, once commander gets onto the map they tend towant to move out asap without no more time wasted, which makes wandering off from the assembly point risky)

    Most times it's bodies. And of course respawning is... just a horrible thing to ask these people waiting for a raid.

    And I guess the commander can't wait two to three minutes....

    I've been there, been a part of the raids, and if my com was that much of a young cat that they couldn't wait for me to leave combat and bounce back, maybe rethink what they are doing.

    And of course they are 'waiting for a raid'. We all get it. But only being willing to help when 'their commander is on' is as bad, if not worse than the 'terrible duelers'.

    The point is, neither is really a problem unless you let your small clothes get into a bunch

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Look, you're free to do what you want and interrupt what you want, but the game has evolved certain ethics.

    Eg. I'm roaming on red bl, guarding south camp, killing low-ranked wvw newbs 1v2 and 1v3. After about 20 minutes of this, some Platinum Legend shows up on a sword weaver and /bows to me. I respect that challenge, so I /bow back and move away from the camp so we can have a fair fight. We go at it for like 5 minutes and eventually someone wins. If I win, I let them up, /wave and either we go again, or they leave.

    "Winning" the matchup matters so little in this game. Fun is what you make it. I personally enjoy a challenge, so I tend to respect duels. If you enjoy killing duelists, well, more power to you. Just know that if you jump on my opponent 2v1, I'm not going to help you, and I will /laugh if you lose.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The community has created their own rules and expectations of behaviour. Though, everyone has their own slightly different views on these rules nor are these set in stone or written down in the bible or something. You are free to do whatever you wish or interrupt any fights or screw with people BUT so is everyone else. Who who are you to force anyone to help you after you annoyed them in the first place? Seems rather childish to me.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • @Celsith.2753 said:
    Maybe those 5-10 should carry some alternate gear and get some experience at fighting without a pin. I hear duelling is excellent for that.....

    as I mentioned once commander arrive he usually prefers to roll out as soon as possible - spreading around and swapping gear would slow this process, also, most of players from coordinated wvw groups I know pretend to hone their 1v1 skills either in figths that happens when roaming, or in sPvP duels in specifically chosen empty room between each other

    @Celsith.2753 said:
    You and a lot of others in this thread are talking like 'Dueller' is some kind of breed of player which only duels and does nothing else.

    because there is major difference between the type of players OP was complaining about and roamers of which you talk about. the latter one won't back off the fight when ally engages in complaining how he is interrupting "honoraburu fight".

    as for honing small scale skills - WvW small scale has a tendency to never be "honourable" at all - it's never fair 1v1 with all skills getting off cd, and full hp before fight, people will drop you when you expect them the least, when you are out of CDs, and I for one would prefer in small scale to have by my side someone who has experience with true raw combat, not some "honourable 1v1" on the middle of the borderland....

    and in large scale I'd prefer experienced zergling with no idea about small scales skirmishes than small scale expert that has barely even seen large scale action, because large scale runs of wildly different paradigms than small scale, and while zergling in small scale is mostly free kill - roamer unexperienced at large scale attached to large scale fight can loose that fight for his zerg.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    as someone have already mentioned above: my only issues with those "duellers" is that they take up map slots without contributing. a very crappy roamer would be better for the server on that map, than even bestest of best duelers that just stays on that one spot 1v1ing people.

    if only there was a map, that falls under rulesets of wvw, but separated from main fighting maps....... oh wait, there is one.

    except for some of duelers in here it's not valid spot because lo and behold "there is nothing in there"

    (I really get argument why not sPvP, but I don't get why you can't move to Obsidian Sanctum and cease to be taking up map slots from people who wants to actually play the mode instead of running "buildcraft testing" - especially in scenarios when both duelers are old good friends sitting on voice chat)

    As long as there isn't a queue on the map the duel guys are on, why bother?

    And even if they are on a full map. For fighting it always needs two people.

    It only gets to be a problem, when there are like 10 people on 1v1 spots standing afk waiting for opponents while the map is full.

  • @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    as someone have already mentioned above: my only issues with those "duellers" is that they take up map slots without contributing. a very crappy roamer would be better for the server on that map, than even bestest of best duelers that just stays on that one spot 1v1ing people.

    if only there was a map, that falls under rulesets of wvw, but separated from main fighting maps....... oh wait, there is one.

    except for some of duelers in here it's not valid spot because lo and behold "there is nothing in there"

    (I really get argument why not sPvP, but I don't get why you can't move to Obsidian Sanctum and cease to be taking up map slots from people who wants to actually play the mode instead of running "buildcraft testing" - especially in scenarios when both duelers are old good friends sitting on voice chat)

    As long as there isn't a queue on the map the duel guys are on, why bother?

    And even if they are on a full map. For fighting it always needs two people.

    It only gets to be a problem, when there are like 10 people on 1v1 spots standing afk waiting for opponents while the map is full.

    b...b....but red alwayz haz dem commandurz online and active! :P
    as I said above I'm only getting slightly irritated when I see them when player count on map, well counts - during normal off hours roaming with no queues I ignore them, like any other useless player during that time ;)

  • Noha.3749Noha.3749 Member ✭✭✭

    Its kind of like the "honor among thieves" thing, or "honor in war". thingy.
    Buuuut also like "there are no rules to war or love".

    If you are a decent and respectful person you try to let them duel fairly. If you want others to respect you when the time comes that you want to duel you ought to honor it yourself. But since its a "warzone" you cant really expect it or demand it.

  • @geist.4126 said:
    Just roll over them repeatedly. If they want to duel there are two great spots. The windmill in the alpine borderlands and obsidian sanctum.

    I never understood why Duels were moved from Windmill to the south sentry area.... windmill made a lot more sense and you were less likely to get zerged or bothered. #MakeWindmillDuelsGreatAgain

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Syprus Soulslayer.1640 said:

    @geist.4126 said:
    Just roll over them repeatedly. If they want to duel there are two great spots. The windmill in the alpine borderlands and obsidian sanctum.

    I never understood why Duels were moved from Windmill to the south sentry area.... windmill made a lot more sense and you were less likely to get zerged or bothered. #MakeWindmillDuelsGreatAgain

    Because of subjective idealism?

    If a duelist win and no one saw him, did he really win?

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Odinens.5920Odinens.5920 Member ✭✭✭

    I said this a long time ago, I generally leave duelers alone and respect the whole dueling etiquette, EXCEPT on reset nights. If you want to duel on reset nights, while there are queues on every map, with people trying to get in WvW to join their guilds then go somewhere else. Just don't do it. Have some courtesy.

  • Spartacus.3192Spartacus.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    There is a time and a place for everything
    WvW is NOT the time, and it is NOT the place for it.

    I constantly run into fights in wvw, I see people from my server fighting people from other servers.
    So I join in, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU DO IN SERVER vs SERVER.
    The result is always; the people from my server stop fighting, and watch as I get slaughtered by the enemy.

    I tell them to help me kill the enemy server's players, but they refuse, because apparantly 'i've interrupted a private fight'.
    In every sense of the word, that is treason, or betrayal, or whatever word you want to give it.
    Newsflash, you're in WvW, there are no private fights, you are a member of your server, and if I see members of my server fighting members of other servers,
    I will attempt to help them kill the enemies.
    You are representing your server in WvW, if you don't want to WvW, then don't come into WvW maps.

    There's a lobby in PvP where you can fight freely with other players to your hearts contents.

    Don't tell me how i can play a game i paid money for. tyvm.

    If you want to kill a dueller while they're duelling fine go ahead. idc.

    Also newsflash. Pvp and WvW use completely different stat combo/amulets/runes/food buffs and even skill splits so don't even try and compare.

    Also a lot of roamers like to practice duelling so that they can improve their skills and make themselves into better roamers.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @Celsith.2753 said:
    Maybe those 5-10 should carry some alternate gear and get some experience at fighting without a pin. I hear duelling is excellent for that.....

    as I mentioned once commander arrive he usually prefers to roll out as soon as possible - spreading around and swapping gear would slow this process, also, most of players from coordinated wvw groups I know pretend to hone their 1v1 skills either in figths that happens when roaming, or in sPvP duels in specifically chosen empty room between each other

    >

    and in large scale I'd prefer experienced zergling with no idea about small scales skirmishes than small scale expert that has barely even seen large scale action, because large scale runs of wildly different paradigms than small scale, and while zergling in small scale is mostly free kill - roamer unexperienced at large scale attached to large scale fight can loose that fight for his zerg.

    A lot of there's roamers/duelers are higher than gold rank and I don't think you Can get that with just flipping camps - they also zerg/raid too.

  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Syprus Soulslayer.1640 said:

    @geist.4126 said:
    Just roll over them repeatedly. If they want to duel there are two great spots. The windmill in the alpine borderlands and obsidian sanctum.

    I never understood why Duels were moved from Windmill to the south sentry area.... windmill made a lot more sense and you were less likely to get zerged or bothered. #MakeWindmillDuelsGreatAgain

    More realistic area for fighting, windmill is flat level ground, with only a single large building. You have more room by sentry, little hills and holes for LOSing and some pillars for LOSing. You also have sentry you can all flip to keep up pips without flipping SC that people QQ about. Windmill tends to only get used when you run into someone while ganking etc that wants a totally out of the way fight because the duels are preset, sentry is more open and visible as such you get more people stopping by to fight, even people who don't often duel, as those people would never just "happen" to walk by windmill and interact.

    People often duel because 90% of the time, they are roamers and the BL is not very active, or they are bored of flipping the same camp for the 100th time and are taking a break to duel, rather than afk pip farm in spawn.

    So much hate for the few people who duel, because "mah queue", but the 30+ people afk pip farming who could go to OS are not talked about.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • Brutal Augus.5917Brutal Augus.5917 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2018

    Threads like these are pointless to me on both sides. At the end of the day most players will do what they want with little regard for what you or anyone else thinks about it. Whether it be to duel or jump on the duelists. We all bought the game, we all play how we want. Eventually you will be forced to acknowledge that you have more control over how you react to something than you do the actions of other players. So stop beating around the bush and build yourself to go slaughter some duelists if it bothers you so much. That would be far more effectual than making this QQ thread anyway.

    edit: corrected spelling errors

  • @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @Celsith.2753 said:
    Maybe those 5-10 should carry some alternate gear and get some experience at fighting without a pin. I hear duelling is excellent for that.....

    as I mentioned once commander arrive he usually prefers to roll out as soon as possible - spreading around and swapping gear would slow this process, also, most of players from coordinated wvw groups I know pretend to hone their 1v1 skills either in figths that happens when roaming, or in sPvP duels in specifically chosen empty room between each other

    >

    and in large scale I'd prefer experienced zergling with no idea about small scales skirmishes than small scale expert that has barely even seen large scale action, because large scale runs of wildly different paradigms than small scale, and while zergling in small scale is mostly free kill - roamer unexperienced at large scale attached to large scale fight can loose that fight for his zerg.

    A lot of there's roamers/duelers are higher than gold rank and I don't think you Can get that with just flipping camps - they also zerg/raid too.

    actually - you can - just takes few years - I have personally met a roamer who have got such a rank with only flipping caps and killing other roamers - it just took him 2h a day since the WXP was implemented to te day when I have met - every day to achieve this - but still possible. Don't recall ever seeing anyone in gold from those chunk I (or OP) was refering to as duellers tho

    People often duel because 90% of the time, they are roamers and the BL is not very active, or they are bored of flipping the same camp for the 100th time and are taking a break to duel, rather than afk pip farm in spawn.

    and I never seen any of thsoe disengaging and complaining when more players decided to fight, which is what OP complained about.

    So much hate for the few people who duel, because "mah queue", but the 30+ people afk pip farming who could go to OS are not talked about.

    again "they are worse than us" is no argument....
    but for those "afk pip famers" - no, the way game is set up they could not go to OS - only those who are waiting out their activity timer to go out "could" (and lo and behold some of them do) but for people actually farming pips you need to keep that activity above tier 3 which means in the end you have to flip a camp every 10 minutes.....

    and at least over here you rarely even get more than 10 present per map.

    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand they are still more use to a server fight at that point than people performing their honourable duels on the middle because they are actually flipping camps which has an effect on war score in skirmish

    @Brutal Augus.5917
    We all bought the game, we all play how we want

    ok, so if someone jumped into sPvP match, and then decided he needs to hone his screenshot taking skills, even to extend actively damaging his team score in some cases would you still use same argument? because this is fairly similar scenario - someone refuses to play the objective of the mode, while taking from a limited source that is players per map cap (in some cases even damaging the war score because if someone jumps in expecting 2v1, preparing for 2v1 in a build that would do sufficiently good in 2v1 but is kitten in 1v1, but is left in 1v1 because "it's duel bruh", then the "dueler" for the sake of his things have just fed points to the enemy team - now I'm not saying all of them are like that, last time I've dropped into a "duel" like that they both backed off while the green one asked me to leave them be - and since it was during workhours for majority of society in this timezone I have let them be, and since then learned to ignore 1v1s in this specific area)

  • @Brutal Augus.5917 said:
    Not gonna dignify that false dichotomy. I wouldn't defend that straw man logic just because the two scenarios are similar in one way when they are so different in a multitude of others.

    Let me simplify my statement since it seems necessary:

    Nothing you do will ever change the fact that people duel and people disrupt duels. You might as well just get over it and move on. Just like I'm about to move on from this thread.

    Sooooooooo much this. If you can change something there's sense in putting forth the effort to do so. Some situations such as this one however, where it involves many, many people, it's better to accept it and work with it rather than feeling like it's working against you. Just like IRL, it's better to accept that some people are bad drivers and to take the proper precautions than to yell and scream and try to tell everyone how they should drive.

    Witchery [YWY] | Maguuma | Diamond Legend

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2018

    not sure if srs
    a possible 8/8

    edit
    just read your signature. nvm lol. too funny.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • LaGranse.8652LaGranse.8652 Member ✭✭✭

    I held some respect for duelers in WvW until recently. Now I have sworn to disrupt every duel I come across because of actions and attitude from duelers when I've left them alone however they don't leave me alone.

  • Vrath.1754Vrath.1754 Member ✭✭✭

    @coro.3176 said:
    Look, you're free to do what you want and interrupt what you want, but the game has evolved certain ethics.

    Eg. I'm roaming on red bl, guarding south camp, killing low-ranked wvw newbs 1v2 and 1v3. After about 20 minutes of this, some Platinum Legend shows up on a sword weaver and /bows to me. I respect that challenge, so I /bow back and move away from the camp so we can have a fair fight. We go at it for like 5 minutes and eventually someone wins. If I win, I let them up, /wave and either we go again, or they leave.

    "Winning" the matchup matters so little in this game. Fun is what you make it. I personally enjoy a challenge, so I tend to respect duels

    You have to admit the bolded quote is in contrast to the first paragraph.

  • Torolan.5816Torolan.5816 Member ✭✭✭

    It´s actually pretty simple, OP: Identify the spots where duels happen and avoid them.

    Or convince your commander that duelists make tasty morale boost snacks for their zerg and hope that the guy which is dueling from your own team does not pay attention to the mini map while dueling. Then use their flames to fire your chimney while you sit in your comfy chair and drink a delicious cup of their tears. ;)

  • Celsith.2753Celsith.2753 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    because there is major difference between the type of players OP was complaining about and roamers of which you talk about. the latter one won't back off the fight when ally engages in complaining how he is interrupting "honoraburu fight".

    as for honing small scale skills - WvW small scale has a tendency to never be "honourable" at all - it's never fair 1v1 with all skills getting off cd, and full hp before fight, people will drop you when you expect them the least, when you are out of CDs, and I for one would prefer in small scale to have by my side someone who has experience with true raw combat, not some "honourable 1v1" on the middle of the borderland....

    and in large scale I'd prefer experienced zergling with no idea about small scales skirmishes than small scale expert that has barely even seen large scale action, because large scale runs of wildly different paradigms than small scale, and while zergling in small scale is mostly free kill - roamer unexperienced at large scale attached to large scale fight can loose that fight for his zerg.

    Yes, the latter will back off and let an interrupting ally fight. I've done it. And i'm definately not a full time dueller.

    I'd rather have a dueller by my side 90% of the time than the average pug I see interrupting. Not only are they usually also roamers well versed in small scale combat, but there's a greater than average chance they aren't keyboard turning skill clickers. Hell you talk like havok players are totally different but we have a habit of holding back and waiting in small fights to let the rally bait players die first lmao.

    And in large scale I absolutely prefer an experienced small scale player against a full time zergling. The skirmisher is the staff ele that doesnt get ganked out of nowhere because he has a habit of panning his camera and knows what a smoke field looks like. He's not eyeballing the nearest champ bag with an enemy blob coming round the corner. Consistently on the dps meter of the squads that i'm in, it's the people I know have small scale knowledge that are top of the charts and last on their feet, or they're the live forever firebrand.

    1 million + WvW kills
    Diamond No Life
    [HUNT] Predatory Instinct

  • @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand they are still more use to a server fight at that point than people performing their honourable duels on the middle because they are actually flipping camps which has an effect on war score in skirmish

    Ah, so someone letting a camp constantly get flipped so they can flip it back to keep their participation up is good for war score? Wouldn't it be better for war score to actually hold onto the camp?

  • @Celsith.2753 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    because there is major difference between the type of players OP was complaining about and roamers of which you talk about. the latter one won't back off the fight when ally engages in complaining how he is interrupting "honoraburu fight".

    as for honing small scale skills - WvW small scale has a tendency to never be "honourable" at all - it's never fair 1v1 with all skills getting off cd, and full hp before fight, people will drop you when you expect them the least, when you are out of CDs, and I for one would prefer in small scale to have by my side someone who has experience with true raw combat, not some "honourable 1v1" on the middle of the borderland....

    and in large scale I'd prefer experienced zergling with no idea about small scales skirmishes than small scale expert that has barely even seen large scale action, because large scale runs of wildly different paradigms than small scale, and while zergling in small scale is mostly free kill - roamer unexperienced at large scale attached to large scale fight can loose that fight for his zerg.

    Yes, the latter will back off and let an interrupting ally fight. I've done it. And i'm definately not a full time dueller.

    thank you for confirming you are crappy ally.....

    I'd rather have a dueller by my side 90% of the time than the average pug I see interrupting. Not only are they usually also roamers well versed in small scale combat, but there's a greater than average chance they aren't keyboard turning skill clickers. Hell you talk like havok players are totally different but we have a habit of holding back and waiting in small fights to let the rally bait players die first lmao.

    so, instead of defeating the enemy you prefer to firstly feed that enemy points? that's outright sabotaging your world you know?

    And in large scale I absolutely prefer an experienced small scale player against a full time zergling. The skirmisher is the staff ele that doesnt get ganked out of nowhere because he has a habit of panning his camera and knows what a smoke field looks like. He's not eyeballing the nearest champ bag with an enemy blob coming round the corner. Consistently on the dps meter of the squads that i'm in, it's the people I know have small scale knowledge that are top of the charts and last on their feet, or they're the live forever firebrand.

    nobody in friggin zerg gets "ganked out of nowhere", you sound like you've never participated in actuall organized zerg (note I said - experienced zergling, not rallybot pugger) and your skirmisher staff ele will most likely break formation at first bomb coming his way out of sheer habit - and if you were ever participating in organised large scale you'd know that staying in formation is crucial in large scale - the group that stays in formation will always win against a group that scatters - which is why I said what I said - even best roamers - when lacking large scale experience will tend to scatter around when faced with enemy push making whole group easy wipe for any group that just remain it's consistency - even if in 1v1 comparision every single zergling would be free kill for every single of those roamers - because that's how large scale works.

    and if you have big coherent group there is no such thing as "someone gets ganked out of nowhere" because it is simply impossible thing to pull off when the group mantains cohesion. the only time "ganking" gets involved in large scale is when someone is lagging behind and groups cohesion is kitten - but that simply means you have people in your group not fully acustomed with movement......

    @Shagaliscious.6281 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand they are still more use to a server fight at that point than people performing their honourable duels on the middle because they are actually flipping camps which has an effect on war score in skirmish

    Ah, so someone letting a camp constantly get flipped so they can flip it back to keep their participation up is good for war score? Wouldn't it be better for war score to actually hold onto the camp?

    it is not perfect but it is better for the war score than someone who does effectively nothing. because ya know at least you have the score ticking for 5 minutes of camps invul timer (and as far as my experience goes so far when borderland is in those hours where most of people online are pip farmers those two camps are flipped back and forth as soon as invul goes off.... meaning at least both sides involed has similar PPT from said camp AND it denies enemy to upgrade this cap to get more advantages of it - sure defending it so you can upgrade would be preferable, but even this is still better than, well nothing)

  • @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @Shagaliscious.6281 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand they are still more use to a server fight at that point than people performing their honourable duels on the middle because they are actually flipping camps which has an effect on war score in skirmish

    Ah, so someone letting a camp constantly get flipped so they can flip it back to keep their participation up is good for war score? Wouldn't it be better for war score to actually hold onto the camp?

    it is not perfect but it is better for the war score than someone who does effectively nothing. because ya know at least you have the score ticking for 5 minutes of camps invul timer (and as far as my experience goes so far when borderland is in those hours where most of people online are pip farmers those two camps are flipped back and forth as soon as invul goes off.... meaning at least both sides involed has similar PPT from said camp AND it denies enemy to upgrade this cap to get more advantages of it - sure defending it so you can upgrade would be preferable, but even this is still better than, well nothing)

    If a camp constantly gets flipped, you get 1 tick every 10ish minutes, which is minuscule if you would actually guard the camp, upgrade the camp and the tower that the yaks go to. Letting it constantly flip is literally letting 2 objectives never tier up, because you want your pips. If you actually care about the war score, that's what you should be doing, not farming pips. If all you want to do is farm pips, you shouldn't care about some duelers playing the game they want to play.

  • @Shagaliscious.6281 said:

    it is not perfect but it is better for the war score than someone who does effectively nothing. because ya know at least you have the score ticking for 5 minutes of camps invul timer (and as far as my experience goes so far when borderland is in those hours where most of people online are pip farmers those two camps are flipped back and forth as soon as invul goes off.... meaning at least both sides involed has similar PPT from said camp AND it denies enemy to upgrade this cap to get more advantages of it - sure defending it so you can upgrade would be preferable, but even this is still better than, well nothing)

    If a camp constantly gets flipped, you get 1 tick every 10ish minutes, which is minuscule if you would actually guard the camp, upgrade the camp and the tower that the yaks go to. Letting it constantly flip is literally letting 2 objectives never tier up, because you want your pips. If you actually care about the war score, that's what you should be doing, not farming pips. If all you want to do is farm pips, you shouldn't care about some duelers playing the game they want to play.

    and because I said those people are more usefull to the server than duelers doing nothing means now I'm one of them right? ;)

  • Its been part of wvw since the start there are places to go for privacy however by the windmill for example is my fav place i know a lot of people like the middle but i feel that its easy to interrupt there

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Felipe.1807 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:
    I honestly believe that if this game were a little more serious, WvW dueling should be bannable offence just like Match manipulation on sPvP...but I dont even bother trying to fight people dueling anymore, cause I know my "allies" will just watch as the enemy players 1v5 me...from my experiece 60% or more of the "duelers" will kill solo players(roamers) as they pass by, 100% will happen if you try to take the sentry that they are near...this kind of behavior dont bother me anymore, but if I see in map chat that they are doing this to more players I just tag up and spawn camp them till they rage quit to other map.

    If it was a little more serious, theoretically, how exactly would you tell the difference between a duel and two players engaging 1v1?

    Like, theoretically, if I was in the zerg and saw a sentry thinking "I'll just take a quick detour" and meet an enemy there that also was outside his zerg, we fight and then my zerg run past but the commander ignores me and all his zerglings of course follow... can I report the entire zerg and have them banned for not helping me? Cause what they did would be classed as match manipulation, intentionally aiding a duel instead of engaging in 50v1 as the rules would stipulate they have to. Or are they suppose to report me for leaving the proximity of the zerg?

    Wait, wait... As a commander, can I report and ban anyone not following me? Because you never know if he's running off to a be a dueller. This will avoid and preempt the diffuse situation above. Simply create an automated system that give you 1 minute to get within 600 range of a commander, otherwise you get banned. The timer starts ticking every time you leave the radius. Commanding pug zergs solved!!

    ...i mean, you see 5 people of each server circle jerking each other while 2 keep fighting...is really easy to tell who are the duelers and who is just roaming...you guys are overthinking this, is kind of ridiculous lol i know some of you like your dueling and stuff, just saying, there are better places to do that.

    Like your guild hall....?