Condi Mirage Feedback [Merged]

There is absolutely no way to fight against it without taking an obscene amount of condition removal. You have confusion on you? Doesn't matter if you don't attack to avoid damage, they will kill you anyway. Got Torment on you? Doesn't matter if you don't move to avoid damage, it will kill you anyway. What's the point in even HAVING conditions if there is no way to play around them except for removal?

And you wanna know the worst thing about it?you can't even run away. That's the worst thing.

I feel toughness needs to affect condition damage as it does with physical damage. I dont see why condis get a free pass to do full damage when ever its applied but phyical damage has many miditgations.Therew only one thing to do with condis and its clearing.

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:I feel toughness needs to affect condition damage as it does with physical damage. I dont see why condis get a free pass to do full damage when ever its applied but phyical damage has many miditgations.Therew only one thing to do with condis and its clearing.

... that's what vitality is for is. Quite literally, it's in the name - better vitality, good resistance to disease. It's a hp buffer against condis. So no, it doesnt get a free pass. Has it kept up with the power creep? No, it most definetly hasnt. But it's still there.

I agree... The problem is that even if you dont walk and dont cast skills to avoid Confusion/Torment damage (which is ridiculous btw... who thought it would be nice to do nothing just to try countering a mesmer?) - they still do tons of Burning damage and have a pretty decent power damage as well :)

let's nor forget god mode disengage/defense/utility on top of that :D

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:I feel toughness needs to affect condition damage as it does with physical damage. I dont see why condis get a free pass to do full damage when ever its applied but phyical damage has many miditgations.Therew only one thing to do with condis and its clearing.

No thanks. SB doesn't need another passive buffs. And conditions were designed to bypass toughness.But Healing Power could give something like -% condition duration, for what it's worth. That way you could invest in healing power without taking every trait/sigil/utility for cleansing, and hit like a wet noodle, killing you over time anyway.Something like 1000 healing power > -50% condi duration. Considering that condi specs have many ways to extend their condi durations, it would be far from OP.

@MyPuppy.8970 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:I feel toughness needs to affect condition damage as it does with physical damage. I dont see why condis get a free pass to do full damage when ever its applied but phyical damage has many miditgations.Therew only one thing to do with condis and its clearing.

This is intreating healing power for less condi duration.

lol what??? How are you complaining about mesmers when there are much more broken classes out there. Look at the Holo ffs! Or the warrior. Every game now 2 holos. and the team without loses. Nice balance Anet. gg.

@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:lol what??? How are you complaining about mesmers when there are much more broken classes out there. Look at the Holo kitten! Or the warrior. Every game now 2 holos. and the team without loses. Nice balance Anet. gg.

When u think war and holo r more busted than mirage ur obv a woodtier player that has a l2p issue.

Holo and war both can be outplayed and have weaknesses. Mirage doesn't.

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:I feel toughness needs to affect condition damage as it does with physical damage. I dont see why condis get a free pass to do full damage when ever its applied but phyical damage has many miditgations.

I have long advocated that Conditions should be affected by toughness, and that Precision should provide a % of damage that ignores toughness.

The end result is that Condition damage would now need 3 stats for maximum damage (Condi/Prec/Expertise) just like Power damage (Power/Prec/Ferocity).

There is still a serious balance issue with Condition damage given that it maximizes with just 2 skills, and in PvP is really effective with just one stat on too many classes (Condition).

@Ovark.2514 said:There is absolutely no way to fight against it without taking an obscene amount of condition removal. You have confusion on you? Doesn't matter if you don't attack to avoid damage, they will kill you anyway. Got Torment on you? Doesn't matter if you don't move to avoid damage, it will kill you anyway. What's the point in even HAVING conditions if there is no way to play around them except for removal?

And you wanna know the worst thing about it?you can't even run away. That's the worst thing.

I have not lost a solo battle with condi mirage in over 3 month on my guardian. Most classes with strong melee AOE and decent condi removal obliterates condi mirage. And this is not a small list of builds.

Not every build counters condi mirage, but claiming that it is God tier is completely false.

@otto.5684 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:There is absolutely no way to fight against it without taking an obscene amount of condition removal. You have confusion on you? Doesn't matter if you don't attack to avoid damage, they will kill you anyway. Got Torment on you? Doesn't matter if you don't move to avoid damage, it will kill you anyway. What's the point in even HAVING conditions if there is no way to play around them except for removal?

And you wanna know the worst thing about it?you can't even run away. That's the worst thing.

This is so true. On my Condi mirage core guards eat me for lunch if they are played by someone with half a brain

@jportell.2197 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:There is absolutely no way to fight against it without taking an obscene amount of condition removal. You have confusion on you? Doesn't matter if you don't attack to avoid damage, they will kill you anyway. Got Torment on you? Doesn't matter if you don't move to avoid damage, it will kill you anyway. What's the point in even HAVING conditions if there is no way to play around them except for removal?

And you wanna know the worst thing about it?you can't even run away. That's the worst thing.

But then, mirage can always disengage. Stealth, several ports, staff2, maybe sword ambush... guard has only 2 gap closers. I do agree that especially core guard is a counter for mirage in actual fights, absolutely.

@Ovark.2514 said:There is absolutely no way to fight against it without taking an obscene amount of condition removal.

Umm....I have next to 0 reliable cleanses that are not used for other purposes and I can typically beat them. Im not even using a meta build. :trollface:

Remember when mesmer had a viable bunker build. But ANet nerfed the bunker capability on top of the damage. Peppridge farm remembers

And this here people is why we got power meta now.Condi was cried about for so long, that now condi cleanses are op and people still cry even though not many reliable condi builds in pvp.

@Axl.8924 said:And this here people is why we got power meta now.Condi was cried about for so long, that now condi cleanses are op and people still cry even though not many reliable condi builds in pvp.

Most classes don't have enough cleanse to fight condi mirage. The only class having more than enough cleanse to fight condi mirage is guardian and well spellbreaker if u play the tanky d/sh build but everyone plays strength ans tether atm.

And yes we have a power meta and 9.9/10 dont want any change.

@Toron.4856 said:

@Axl.8924 said:And this here people is why we got power meta now.Condi was cried about for so long, that now condi cleanses are op and people still cry even though not many reliable condi builds in pvp.

I know that eles have strong anti condi so do necros.Thieves are fairly vulnerable to condis, but condi has been over nerfed now and its not as much a presence.For the long duration low dmg condis, we need far less condi cleanses to have it viable.

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:I feel toughness needs to affect condition damage as it does with physical damage. I dont see why condis get a free pass to do full damage when ever its applied but phyical damage has many miditgations.Therew only one thing to do with condis and its clearing.

As much as I agree with the OP, toughness cannot affect condition damage, because it's dealt over time and can be cleared.. not something possible with physical damage. Condition damage must = that of physical damage otherwise there would be no point to using it, that has also been Anet's stance on it.

The problem that lies with Mirage is they've been given basically everything without having to give up anything. The one and only time I pulled out the Mirage and mashed a couple of buttons, placed nearly 10 stacks of torment and confusion on an opponent.. I mean what gives? Why is that even possible?

I mean with that much access to condition and power damage, they need to lose their ability to stealth and give them about 25% less hp than an ele.

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:I feel toughness needs to affect condition damage as it does with physical damage. I dont see why condis get a free pass to do full damage when ever its applied but phyical damage has many miditgations.Therew only one thing to do with condis and its clearing.

The same way if you play holo in a team fight and roll ur face across the keyboard you get stab for 5/6 of the time. Or the fact that you cleanse 2 condis everytime u leave holo mode. And what two condis can mirages really reliably output? Oh yeah confusion and torment. Everything else in such a short duration it doesnt matter.

I mean really the amount of hate against mirages at these levels reminds me of when people asked for an ICD on deceptive evasion. Mesmer has seen some of the most vicious nerfs of any class since launch. And any time it makes it into the meta people freak out about it.

@Toron.4856 said:

@Axl.8924 said:And this here people is why we got power meta now.Condi was cried about for so long, that now condi cleanses are op and people still cry even though not many reliable condi builds in pvp.

The following build do well agains mirage in order of effectiveness:

Core guardianHoloSB (somewhat)Soul beast is not bad (as long that you have GS)Weaver sword is alrightReaper is not badScourge is also okay

Only rev and thief have limited options against mirage. And not every class must have more than enough cleanses to fight condis. Cuz if that is the case no one will play condi builds.

And the meta currently sucks. We do need more condi viable builds and support builds. Not every fucking build should be a pure power dps, except mirage scourge and FB. We need variety.

@otto.5684 said:

@Toron.4856 said:

@Axl.8924 said:And this here people is why we got power meta now.Condi was cried about for so long, that now condi cleanses are op and people still cry even though not many reliable condi builds in pvp.

Thief is probable best mesmer counterAnd problem is in mirage class in summ. Unlimited illusion spam and tp/invis/portals is just too much

I don't understand the problem, why SHOULDN'T you take condi removal traits and skills? Do you honestly expect to fight condi without adjusting your build to counter it?

Methinks you are just looking for a free pass; ''I can't be bothered to pick condi removal so it shouldn't be part of the game''

Next patch- Condi Mirage NERFED! to death- no good.
Day after patch. Mez players goes alternate build. The Power Mirage..yay GS 1 shot.
Complainers post that very same day after a few matches vs power mirage-BOOHOO- Power Mirage is the worst thing to ever happen to this game... plz nerf it!Moral of this story- Mesmer Complainers will never be happy no matter how many nerfs you give mirage.

@Vieux P.1238 said:Next patch- Condi Mirage NERFED! to death- no good.

Day after patch. Mez players goes alternate build. The Power Mirage..yay GS 1 shot.

Complainers post that very same day after a few matches vs power mirage-BOOHOO- Power Mirage is the worst thing to ever happen to this game... plz nerf it!Moral of this story- Mesmer Complainers will never be happy no matter how many nerfs you give mirage.

You seem to have a problem with understanding your own class (Mesmer) - Power Mirage was JUST nerfed because of the nerf to Confounding Suggestions.

@idolin.2831 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:Next patch- Condi Mirage NERFED! to death- no good.

Day after patch. Mez players goes alternate build. The Power Mirage..yay GS 1 shot.

Complainers post that very same day after a few matches vs power mirage-BOOHOO- Power Mirage is the worst thing to ever happen to this game... plz nerf it!Moral of this story- Mesmer Complainers will never be happy no matter how many nerfs you give mirage.

Do you think that was anoth? I feel soon after they nerf Condi mirage cuz of the complainers that you'l have power mirage soon after nerfed as well cuz of the crying.