Condi Mirage Feedback [Merged] - Page 11 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Condi Mirage Feedback [Merged]

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  • Luna.6203Luna.6203 Member ✭✭✭

    @Luna.6203 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Luna.6203 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    The main problem is probably the never ending gap between good player (10-20 %?) and plebs (80%?).

    This topic is not about experienced vs new player. It's completely different topic.
    By insulting 80% people by calling them noobs... not directly ...still it's just not argument.

    Because people crying about mesmers since 2012 aren't insulting at all, of course.
    And yeah I am insulting them because they came here and babycry only because of their feelings (like if I feel I should kill gards in 0.25 second today, hmm.), we don't know which class they play, which build they play, and so on whereas it's easy to look at AT finals streams.

    @viquing.8254 said:
    Is the first case, mesmer look more like garbage because apart portal, it has very few teamfight options, his burst is miles away from real burst class who do same burst damage in twice less clics and with twice less CD , it can't anticap point versus every other sideholder class, there is better for win 1v1, for +1, etc. (which everyone can see in AT,mAT,leaderboard.)

    Maybe mirage burst isn't no.1 still its amongst top and unlike others classes that have to sacrifice survivability for proper damage mirage can have top burst and top defence at same time.. plus top mobility and utility.

    LOL ?!
    Half other meta class have 25 perma might + plethora of boons that make even the tankiest mender build a high dps pressure build literally low risk high reward.
    Which other class have to sacrifice something ?? They have the tools to temporise anything or trait for it while still having high pressure output.

    @viquing.8254 said:
    In the second case, mesmer is "the most op broken class in this game" who do 1v5 with only one hand on keyboard.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/60730/mesmers-most-broken-class-in-this-game ?

    I thing mesmer is a lot easier and lot more powerful since you can have 3 clones and 3 illusions at same time.

    clone = 1 sec life duration versus 80% of situations.
    even versus class who don't have high cleave/aoe, it's easy to kite.
    Phantasm are bad when you compare their cast time and CD compared to some skills that can output 5-8 k damage with half cast time and fewer CD on other meta class.

    @viquing.8254 said:
    So if the solution is : make mesmer a punching ball so that evry oister with a 3 sec reaction delay can kill it with passive autoproc and random aoe.
    The answer is : it's not a solution because you will get farmed anyway by mesmers rerolling on more cheesy class.

    I get it: You play mesmer so it not broken. Others are just noobs. and bla bla.. I'm really tired of this. I just would like to know if ANET going to do something about it or not. So i can decide if i want to continue play or not.

    I get it : You don't play mesmer and one kill you, so it's broken. Mesmers main have biased opinion . and blabla ... I'm really tired of this. I just would like to know if ANET going to do sometyhing about it or not.... (aka put some PvP stats out comparing mesmer efficiency ratio in high level and mid/low level so that we can move to something else.)

    ... No comment. You just wasting my time.

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:

    @Luna.6203 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Luna.6203 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    The main problem is probably the never ending gap between good player (10-20 %?) and plebs (80%?).

    This topic is not about experienced vs new player. It's completely different topic.
    By insulting 80% people by calling them noobs... not directly ...still it's just not argument.

    Because people crying about mesmers since 2012 aren't insulting at all, of course.
    And yeah I am insulting them because they came here and babycry only because of their feelings (like if I feel I should kill gards in 0.25 second today, hmm.), we don't know which class they play, which build they play, and so on whereas it's easy to look at AT finals streams.

    @viquing.8254 said:
    Is the first case, mesmer look more like garbage because apart portal, it has very few teamfight options, his burst is miles away from real burst class who do same burst damage in twice less clics and with twice less CD , it can't anticap point versus every other sideholder class, there is better for win 1v1, for +1, etc. (which everyone can see in AT,mAT,leaderboard.)

    Maybe mirage burst isn't no.1 still its amongst top and unlike others classes that have to sacrifice survivability for proper damage mirage can have top burst and top defence at same time.. plus top mobility and utility.

    LOL ?!
    Half other meta class have 25 perma might + plethora of boons that make even the tankiest mender build a high dps pressure build literally low risk high reward.
    Which other class have to sacrifice something ?? They have the tools to temporise anything or trait for it while still having high pressure output.

    @viquing.8254 said:
    In the second case, mesmer is "the most op broken class in this game" who do 1v5 with only one hand on keyboard.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/60730/mesmers-most-broken-class-in-this-game ?

    I thing mesmer is a lot easier and lot more powerful since you can have 3 clones and 3 illusions at same time.

    clone = 1 sec life duration versus 80% of situations.
    even versus class who don't have high cleave/aoe, it's easy to kite.
    Phantasm are bad when you compare their cast time and CD compared to some skills that can output 5-8 k damage with half cast time and fewer CD on other meta class.

    @viquing.8254 said:
    So if the solution is : make mesmer a punching ball so that evry oister with a 3 sec reaction delay can kill it with passive autoproc and random aoe.
    The answer is : it's not a solution because you will get farmed anyway by mesmers rerolling on more cheesy class.

    I get it: You play mesmer so it not broken. Others are just noobs. and bla bla.. I'm really tired of this. I just would like to know if ANET going to do something about it or not. So i can decide if i want to continue play or not.

    I get it : You don't play mesmer and one kill you, so it's broken. Mesmers main have biased opinion . and blabla ... I'm really tired of this. I just would like to know if ANET going to do sometyhing about it or not.... (aka put some PvP stats out comparing mesmer efficiency ratio in high level and mid/low level so that we can move to something else.)

    ... No comment. You just wasting my time.

    You wasting your own time * ironically...
    Aside from you will not be missed. U could spend this time to learn class and play it yourself .If you dont want then byebye xd

    You wasting your own time - true because arguing with someone who just twisting my words and talk off topic.. its not about 2012 mesmer this is about 2018 mirage. i stopped reading after that.

    Aside from you will not be missed. - true i don't even know you. i will not miss you too.

    U could spend this time to learn class and play it yourself .If you dont want then byebye xd - Y im noob one from 80% i get it... and yea bye bye

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 17, 2018

    @Luna.6203 said:
    You wasting your own time - true because arguing with someone who just twisting my words and talk off topic.. its not about 2012 mesmer this is about 2018 mirage. i stopped reading after that.

    People were raging about mes from the beginning and even if mirage didn't exist, rage still exist.

    Now the trap question :
    Can you name few active top PvP mesmer today ?
    Cause It's easy to find plenty of ohter class active PvP players. (apart ele.)

  • Malafaia.8903Malafaia.8903 Member ✭✭✭✭

    nerf axe #3

  • Abazigal.3679Abazigal.3679 Member ✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Luna.6203 said:
    You wasting your own time - true because arguing with someone who just twisting my words and talk off topic.. its not about 2012 mesmer this is about 2018 mirage. i stopped reading after that.

    People were raging about mes from the beginning and even if mirage didn't exist, rage still exist.

    Now the trap question :
    Can you name few active top PvP mesmer today ?
    Cause It's easy to find plenty of ohter class active PvP players. (apart ele.)

    Same as usual, i believe people argue about average players, not top players.
    When all 5 players in each side know how to handle classic meta builds, it's fine. Mirage, holo, and scourge to a lesser extend are annoying but that's it. When you have 1 or 2 players that do not, it's not really fun and matchs run into a snowball fest. I'm not going to find 3 scourges 2 mirages at top50 because all are going to reroll to counter it, and all 5 players probably know how to play. Alternatively, you probably can find that in average rating.

    Mirage holo and scourge question isn't about being OP to me, since it's for sure a tough l2p issue. More likely about the risk/reward that is problematic

  • Mirage is imo the easiest to deal with out of all "side noders".
    Problem is gold players think they are plat and plat think they are legend, So when they fight the top 10% and get destroyed it must all be the class and not the massive difference in skill.

    Mirage is highly effective at low rating because people just spam autos with confusion or panic press's everything.

  • Cheeseball C.8395Cheeseball C.8395 Member ✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    My last post was maybe nerfing mirage by removing evades off clones' infinite horizon trait. Some mesmers got on my post and tell me to get good or to play it so i did. This is me facerolling day 2, i'm bad at this class but can do BS like this.

  • still not as good as that other mirage bot, git gud.

  • Abelisk.4527Abelisk.4527 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2019

    The main reason why Mirage isn't seen in higher ranks isn't because it's OP, but because it requires a high amount of rotating. Mirage struggles against bunkers such as Boonbeast, Weaver, Chrono, and even a good Prot Holo. This means a good Mirage needs to constantly look at the map, making the best decisions such as helping allies in a fight, taking a reasonable 1v1 matchup that you might actually win, or even decapping points if you lack a thief and have nothing to do, or watching out for enemy respawns and helping get objectives, and others.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:
    God bless the mesmers.

    It's even more funny that you played a charr, swung a big as chainsaw to make yourself more noticeable and your opponents still int'd as hard as they did :^]

    Brilliant balance Anet.

    Standard Enemy Models.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • avey.4201avey.4201 Member ✭✭

    @Abelisk.4527 said:
    The main reason why Mirage isn't seen in higher ranks isn't because it's OP, but because it requires a high amount of rotating. Mirage struggles against bunkers such as Boonbeast, Mirage, Chrono, and even a good Prot Holo. This means a good Mirage needs to constantly look at the map, making the best decisions such as helping allies in a fight, taking a reasonable 1v1 matchup that you might actually win, or even decapping points if you lack a thief and have nothing to do, or watching out for enemy respawns and helping get objectives, and others.

    Mirage struggles against mirage, sounds OP, every team member on every class should be watching the map attempting to be as optimal as possible, though I can only 1v1, if I 1v2 its likely they stood on top of each other or both were completely new to their classes, in the video posted I would've killed the theif fast and died to the second due to cooldowns, I cant see if the second is spellbreaker or rev due to quality, but both take all I've got + some luck on spell breaker.
    The problem with mirage is so much evade, even mid CC+invulnerability+clone spam+mobility+high damage+all the target breaking.
    You can't burst them or they will evade, then invuln wasting your cooldowns, and you can /gg your butt goodbye.
    You have to bait their evades while dodging any 1 hit shatters, and then while your health is rapidly falling from so many clones, you must find them in an army of clones, and blow them up before they can run away or you fall over from clones/condis melting you.

  • incisorr.9502incisorr.9502 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2019

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

  • Mathias.9657Mathias.9657 Member ✭✭✭

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not

    Savage

    MESMER MAIN SPOTTED

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    Cleaving someone trying to rez a downed body is something literally every damage build can do. I wish more players were decent enough to do it.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2019

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @incisorr.9502 said:
    (...) the class is not even a top 3 class (...) in actual strength (...)

    Just out of curiosity, which are your top3? Soulbeast is probably on 1 (agreed), which are 2 and 3?

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    /shrug All I see is what has been the case since launch - mesmer is a noob stomper and wrecks bad players.

    IH hybrid | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

  • UfoCoffee.2084UfoCoffee.2084 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cheeseball C.8395 said:

    My last post was maybe nerfing mirage by removing evades off clones' infinite horizon trait. Some mesmers got on my post and tell me to get good or to play it so i did. This is me facerolling day 2, i'm bad at this class but can do BS like this.

    I mean it makes sense. How can you defeat a class you can't hit?

    I've won 3v1's on nodes as condi just spamming my aoe condi kitten and kiting with regen. So easy.

  • UfoCoffee.2084UfoCoffee.2084 Member ✭✭✭

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Mirage is average? Come on man. You're massively in denial.

    You can say you finished high last season. But so did tons of streamers I watch who say mirage is broken.

    So I think I'll believe the majority and not you who claims mirage is 'average'.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2019

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

    Hmm, I don't think thief counters mesmer, like thief vs guardian...may be core mes and early days of gw2 but not chrono/mirage and not today. Sure thief "should win more" but them 2 specs are far from defenceless vs thief and can easily counter preauer them back.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    It's baffling how people think it's okay to be able to evade any hard bursts in any state, why is it so hard to understand? We'll never know.

    Being able to spam visual clutter that used to take some thinking and now done by nearly anything you press.

    Mesmer is truly one of a kind and outmost favorite profession of Anet most likely.

    I miss the days without PoF. Wasn't much of a mess compared now.

    Warriors can burst while invulnerable since day 1.
    Thieves, rangers, revs can also land hard bursts while being invulnerable.

    So mesmer doing it is a problem but the rest no....
    It was easier to say: I don't want to pay attention to mesmer and kill them without even trying.

    A skill is far more different than an "evade". You ever heard of utility?

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2019

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

    Hmm, I don't think thief counters mesmer, like thief vs guardian...may be core mes and early days of gw2 but not chrono/mirage and not today. Sure thief "should win more" but them 2 specs are far from defenceless vs thief and can easily counter preauer them back.

    It does both power and condi.
    It is better than core days but still huge advantage of thieves. 2xecto on a medium cd alone has carry potential against mes

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

    Hmm, I don't think thief counters mesmer, like thief vs guardian...may be core mes and early days of gw2 but not chrono/mirage and not today. Sure thief "should win more" but them 2 specs are far from defenceless vs thief and can easily counter preauer them back.

    I would say it depends on build. Against condition mes I agree thief isn't the hard counter it used to be and I'd say it's a bit of an even fight, though it's more likely the thief will have a situation develop elsewhere that is more worthy of the time investment vs fighting a mirage for the same time.

    Against power mesmer thief is still strong, 1 good burst from the mesmer can end the thief but outside of that it's a fight very much in favour of the thief I would say with double ecto.

    Guard is very punishing vs both power mesmer and thief because of the instant damage from smite condition as well as the insane alpha damage. DPS guard and DH is one of the few classes I always give a wide birth when on either thief or mes.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

    Hmm, I don't think thief counters mesmer, like thief vs guardian...may be core mes and early days of gw2 but not chrono/mirage and not today. Sure thief "should win more" but them 2 specs are far from defenceless vs thief and can easily counter preauer them back.

    I would say it depends on build. Against condition mes I agree thief isn't the hard counter it used to be and I'd say it's a bit of an even fight, though it's more likely the thief will have a situation develop elsewhere that is more worthy of the time investment vs fighting a mirage for the same time.

    Beg to differ, condi mes is an easy prey to sd thief. The amount of evades and condi cleanses of sd2, as well the 2xecto, turns the match into thieves favour.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

    Hmm, I don't think thief counters mesmer, like thief vs guardian...may be core mes and early days of gw2 but not chrono/mirage and not today. Sure thief "should win more" but them 2 specs are far from defenceless vs thief and can easily counter preauer them back.

    I would say it depends on build. Against condition mes I agree thief isn't the hard counter it used to be and I'd say it's a bit of an even fight, though it's more likely the thief will have a situation develop elsewhere that is more worthy of the time investment vs fighting a mirage for the same time.

    Beg to differ, condi mes is an easy prey to sd thief. The amount of evades and condi cleanses of sd2, as well the 2xecto, turns the match into thieves favour.

    Well it also depends on what you're using, condi mesmer on equal skill rating won't lose any time soon even played by "a complete monkey" with staff and chaos.

    So then the thief has to do their time and map evaluation of whether continuing the 1v1 is worth it over going somewhere else and imbalance the fight for snowballing especially in this meta. The mesmer wins by wasting the thieves time and not getting decapped, the thief wins by either getting the kill quickly or getting the decap and running off.

    It's generally hard to evaluate a thief in a 1v1 because the win/lose condition isn't always tied to getting the kill or dying.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

    Hmm, I don't think thief counters mesmer, like thief vs guardian...may be core mes and early days of gw2 but not chrono/mirage and not today. Sure thief "should win more" but them 2 specs are far from defenceless vs thief and can easily counter preauer them back.

    I would say it depends on build. Against condition mes I agree thief isn't the hard counter it used to be and I'd say it's a bit of an even fight, though it's more likely the thief will have a situation develop elsewhere that is more worthy of the time investment vs fighting a mirage for the same time.

    Beg to differ, condi mes is an easy prey to sd thief. The amount of evades and condi cleanses of sd2, as well the 2xecto, turns the match into thieves favour.

    Well it also depends on what you're using, condi mesmer on equal skill rating won't lose any time soon even played by "a complete monkey" with staff and chaos.

    Try to find good s/d thief and this monkey will lose 100-0 . Simple fact core s/d thief never should lose to mesmer (not sure about scepter bunker chrono) otheriwe no excuses

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

    Hmm, I don't think thief counters mesmer, like thief vs guardian...may be core mes and early days of gw2 but not chrono/mirage and not today. Sure thief "should win more" but them 2 specs are far from defenceless vs thief and can easily counter preauer them back.

    I would say it depends on build. Against condition mes I agree thief isn't the hard counter it used to be and I'd say it's a bit of an even fight, though it's more likely the thief will have a situation develop elsewhere that is more worthy of the time investment vs fighting a mirage for the same time.

    Beg to differ, condi mes is an easy prey to sd thief. The amount of evades and condi cleanses of sd2, as well the 2xecto, turns the match into thieves favour.

    Well it also depends on what you're using, condi mesmer on equal skill rating won't lose any time soon even played by "a complete monkey" with staff and chaos.

    Try to find good s/d thief and this monkey will lose 100-0 . Simple fact core s/d thief never should lose to mesmer (not sure about scepter bunker chrono) otheriwe no excuses

    Please don't quote part of what I wrote as you lose the context. The "complete monkey" was fighting Sindrener so does that count as a good S/D thief?

    Here's the context you missed:

    So then the thief has to do their time and map evaluation of whether continuing the 1v1 is worth it over going somewhere else and imbalance the fight for snowballing especially in this meta. The mesmer wins by wasting the thieves time and not getting decapped, the thief wins by either getting the kill quickly or getting the decap and running off.

    It's generally hard to evaluate a thief in a 1v1 because the win/lose condition isn't always tied to getting the kill or dying.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

    Hmm, I don't think thief counters mesmer, like thief vs guardian...may be core mes and early days of gw2 but not chrono/mirage and not today. Sure thief "should win more" but them 2 specs are far from defenceless vs thief and can easily counter preauer them back.

    I would say it depends on build. Against condition mes I agree thief isn't the hard counter it used to be and I'd say it's a bit of an even fight, though it's more likely the thief will have a situation develop elsewhere that is more worthy of the time investment vs fighting a mirage for the same time.

    Beg to differ, condi mes is an easy prey to sd thief. The amount of evades and condi cleanses of sd2, as well the 2xecto, turns the match into thieves favour.

    Well it also depends on what you're using, condi mesmer on equal skill rating won't lose any time soon even played by "a complete monkey" with staff and chaos.

    Try to find good s/d thief and this monkey will lose 100-0 . Simple fact core s/d thief never should lose to mesmer (not sure about scepter bunker chrono) otheriwe no excuses

    Please don't quote part of what I wrote as you lose the context. The "complete monkey" was fighting Sindrener so does that count as a good S/D thief?

    Here's the context you missed:

    So then the thief has to do their time and map evaluation of whether continuing the 1v1 is worth it over going somewhere else and imbalance the fight for snowballing especially in this meta. The mesmer wins by wasting the thieves time and not getting decapped, the thief wins by either getting the kill quickly or getting the decap and running off.

    It's generally hard to evaluate a thief in a 1v1 because the win/lose condition isn't always tied to getting the kill or dying.

    Since when someone on entire forum think about winning through 'wasting' some1's time ? Everyone scream REEE I cant win straight mirage 1x1 on my revenant thus thats absurd,while completely ignore his role as roamer .

  • incisorr.9502incisorr.9502 Member ✭✭✭

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:
    (...) the class is not even a top 3 class (...) in actual strength (...)

    Just out of curiosity, which are your top3? Soulbeast is probably on 1 (agreed), which are 2 and 3?

    a revenant has way more influence over a high elo game than a soulbeast so revenant is the best class
    2nd best class would be guardian cus core guard is viable (its the same role as revenant with slightly different strengths and weaknesses) and cus firebrand is also a thing and they can win teamfights, a revenant with firebrand support is even more broken than usual
    3rd best class would be thief for similar reasons as above and cus it can go deadeye or normal thief

    so basically the 3 gankers, as i keep saying
    soulbeast would probably be 4th

    the reason why soulbeast isnt better than the other 3 is because soulbeast's role is much less impactful on a higher level soloq. If you're a SB and you push far but your team loses the TF quickly cus of a random spike 1shot from one of the 3 classes above then they can quickly roam to you and 2v1 you while your team is respawning and sb can't do anything about it.
    SB beats other duelists but duelist fights are longer and don't end as quickly as fights in which gankers are involved and there's a world in which a soulbeast is shut down by gankers or simply ignored and sent some other duelist to feed him while the enemy team wins the other 2 points

    i'm talking about spvp strength and influence and not 1v1 or combat strength or whatever

  • UfoCoffee.2084UfoCoffee.2084 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

    Hmm, I don't think thief counters mesmer, like thief vs guardian...may be core mes and early days of gw2 but not chrono/mirage and not today. Sure thief "should win more" but them 2 specs are far from defenceless vs thief and can easily counter preauer them back.

    I would say it depends on build. Against condition mes I agree thief isn't the hard counter it used to be and I'd say it's a bit of an even fight, though it's more likely the thief will have a situation develop elsewhere that is more worthy of the time investment vs fighting a mirage for the same time.

    Beg to differ, condi mes is an easy prey to sd thief. The amount of evades and condi cleanses of sd2, as well the 2xecto, turns the match into thieves favour.

    It's an even match up nowadays. 2x ectos? So you're not dodging steal with your million evades?

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭

    Funny vid Lubu XD

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:
    (...) the class is not even a top 3 class (...) in actual strength (...)

    Just out of curiosity, which are your top3? Soulbeast is probably on 1 (agreed), which are 2 and 3?

    a revenant has way more influence over a high elo game than a soulbeast so revenant is the best class
    2nd best class would be guardian cus core guard is viable (its the same role as revenant with slightly different strengths and weaknesses) and cus firebrand is also a thing and they can win teamfights, a revenant with firebrand support is even more broken than usual
    3rd best class would be thief for similar reasons as above and cus it can go deadeye or normal thief

    so basically the 3 gankers, as i keep saying
    soulbeast would probably be 4th

    the reason why soulbeast isnt better than the other 3 is because soulbeast's role is much less impactful on a higher level soloq. If you're a SB and you push far but your team loses the TF quickly cus of a random spike 1shot from one of the 3 classes above then they can quickly roam to you and 2v1 you while your team is respawning and sb can't do anything about it.
    SB beats other duelists but duelist fights are longer and don't end as quickly as fights in which gankers are involved and there's a world in which a soulbeast is shut down by gankers or simply ignored and sent some other duelist to feed him while the enemy team wins the other 2 points

    i'm talking about spvp strength and influence and not 1v1 or combat strength or whatever

    I dunno how to respond to this..... I just don't.

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    You are 404 pvp rank, that's a rank achieved by someone who nerds the gamemode every single day for years.
    The gameplay showed is probably unranked or silver rank based on the enemy you faced.

    You are a good player who pug stomped 3 noobs, so what? Mirage is op? I don't think so.

    If you were on holosmith or boonbeast that was even easier to be honest, and that could be done with any other meta spec.

    So let's hear what is your main, the profession that requires insane skill level to be good at, I'm curious.

    Lubu is a Necro main.

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    /shrug All I see is what has been the case since launch - mesmer is a noob stomper and wrecks bad players.

    Well we all see what we want to see. . .

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ovark.2514 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    /shrug All I see is what has been the case since launch - mesmer is a noob stomper and wrecks bad players.

    Well we all see what we want to see. . .

    Indeed, based on our own experience playing as and against mesmer over the years.

    I acknowledge aspects of mesmer that are too strong as is evident by my post history, but this video does not demonstrate anything more than poor play losing against poor play, which isn't a situation exclusive to mesmer.

    IH hybrid | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invul?

    Didn't you know.
    Blind is an invuln in 2019 now

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @UfoCoffee.2084 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

    Hmm, I don't think thief counters mesmer, like thief vs guardian...may be core mes and early days of gw2 but not chrono/mirage and not today. Sure thief "should win more" but them 2 specs are far from defenceless vs thief and can easily counter preauer them back.

    I would say it depends on build. Against condition mes I agree thief isn't the hard counter it used to be and I'd say it's a bit of an even fight, though it's more likely the thief will have a situation develop elsewhere that is more worthy of the time investment vs fighting a mirage for the same time.

    Beg to differ, condi mes is an easy prey to sd thief. The amount of evades and condi cleanses of sd2, as well the 2xecto, turns the match into thieves favour.

    It's an even match up nowadays. 2x ectos? So you're not dodging steal with your million evades?

    So you're not dodging the condi burst with your million evades?

    Seriously thieves have no right whatsoever to complain about evades.

    ** throws apple** thats all it is though, no casting inside evade frames

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @UfoCoffee.2084 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

    Hmm, I don't think thief counters mesmer, like thief vs guardian...may be core mes and early days of gw2 but not chrono/mirage and not today. Sure thief "should win more" but them 2 specs are far from defenceless vs thief and can easily counter preauer them back.

    I would say it depends on build. Against condition mes I agree thief isn't the hard counter it used to be and I'd say it's a bit of an even fight, though it's more likely the thief will have a situation develop elsewhere that is more worthy of the time investment vs fighting a mirage for the same time.

    Beg to differ, condi mes is an easy prey to sd thief. The amount of evades and condi cleanses of sd2, as well the 2xecto, turns the match into thieves favour.

    It's an even match up nowadays. 2x ectos? So you're not dodging steal with your million evades?

    So you're not dodging the condi burst with your million evades?

    Seriously thieves have no right whatsoever to complain about evades.

    ** throws apple** thats all it is though, no casting inside evade frames

    Plenty of attacking while evading with sd.

  • "Warriors can burst while invulnerable since day 1."

    Since when warrior have invulnerability?

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @UfoCoffee.2084 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

    Hmm, I don't think thief counters mesmer, like thief vs guardian...may be core mes and early days of gw2 but not chrono/mirage and not today. Sure thief "should win more" but them 2 specs are far from defenceless vs thief and can easily counter preauer them back.

    I would say it depends on build. Against condition mes I agree thief isn't the hard counter it used to be and I'd say it's a bit of an even fight, though it's more likely the thief will have a situation develop elsewhere that is more worthy of the time investment vs fighting a mirage for the same time.

    Beg to differ, condi mes is an easy prey to sd thief. The amount of evades and condi cleanses of sd2, as well the 2xecto, turns the match into thieves favour.

    It's an even match up nowadays. 2x ectos? So you're not dodging steal with your million evades?

    So you're not dodging the condi burst with your million evades?

    Seriously thieves have no right whatsoever to complain about evades.

    ** throws apple** thats all it is though, no casting inside evade frames

    Plenty of attacking while evading with sd.

    locked into animation

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