Condi Mirage Feedback [Merged] - Page 12 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Condi Mirage Feedback [Merged]

191012141517

Comments

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @incisorr.9502 said:
    1st - you're fighting scrubs and that completely invalidates everything

    this only reinforces the point of the author of the post, since he himself is amateur in this class and has overperforming against other amateurs, it is a pve farm!

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @UfoCoffee.2084 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

    Hmm, I don't think thief counters mesmer, like thief vs guardian...may be core mes and early days of gw2 but not chrono/mirage and not today. Sure thief "should win more" but them 2 specs are far from defenceless vs thief and can easily counter preauer them back.

    I would say it depends on build. Against condition mes I agree thief isn't the hard counter it used to be and I'd say it's a bit of an even fight, though it's more likely the thief will have a situation develop elsewhere that is more worthy of the time investment vs fighting a mirage for the same time.

    Beg to differ, condi mes is an easy prey to sd thief. The amount of evades and condi cleanses of sd2, as well the 2xecto, turns the match into thieves favour.

    It's an even match up nowadays. 2x ectos? So you're not dodging steal with your million evades?

    So you're not dodging the condi burst with your million evades?

    Seriously thieves have no right whatsoever to complain about evades.

    ** throws apple** thats all it is though, no casting inside evade frames

    Plenty of attacking while evading with sd.

    locked into animation

    An animation combo that crits for 7k if it lands.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Isn't mesmer being the ultimate noob stomper old news?

    And general game experience matters. A PvP veteran could probably pick up any meta spec for the first time and still dominate inexperienced opponents.

    And shouldn't we know by now not to draw sweeping conclusions from isolated encounters?

    Not sure this video proves much of anything.

  • Ansau.7326Ansau.7326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    It's baffling how people think it's okay to be able to evade any hard bursts in any state, why is it so hard to understand? We'll never know.

    Being able to spam visual clutter that used to take some thinking and now done by nearly anything you press.

    Mesmer is truly one of a kind and outmost favorite profession of Anet most likely.

    I miss the days without PoF. Wasn't much of a mess compared now.

    Warriors can burst while invulnerable since day 1.
    Thieves, rangers, revs can also land hard bursts while being invulnerable.

    So mesmer doing it is a problem but the rest no....
    It was easier to say: I don't want to pay attention to mesmer and kill them without even trying.

    A skill is far more different than an "evade". You ever heard of utility?

    Sure passive traits are so difficult to use...

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    (...)
    Not sure this video proves much of anything.

    I don't get this post either. But it seems like you just have to write "mirage" in the title and lots of people jump on the pointless spam train. From both sides.

    Kind of sad that mirage was kept the way it is that the playerbase itself has such hard fronts. There were a lot of valuable suggestions what would have solved them - and, yes, lots of trash as well, of course.

  • Highlie.7641Highlie.7641 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @silentnight warrior.2714 said:
    "Warriors can burst while invulnerable since day 1."

    Since when warrior have invulnerability?

    this is how. i wont take credit because its not my build.

    If you look close enough you will realize this picture is a fake... There is no Full counter on 1.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @UfoCoffee.2084 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

    Hmm, I don't think thief counters mesmer, like thief vs guardian...may be core mes and early days of gw2 but not chrono/mirage and not today. Sure thief "should win more" but them 2 specs are far from defenceless vs thief and can easily counter preauer them back.

    I would say it depends on build. Against condition mes I agree thief isn't the hard counter it used to be and I'd say it's a bit of an even fight, though it's more likely the thief will have a situation develop elsewhere that is more worthy of the time investment vs fighting a mirage for the same time.

    Beg to differ, condi mes is an easy prey to sd thief. The amount of evades and condi cleanses of sd2, as well the 2xecto, turns the match into thieves favour.

    It's an even match up nowadays. 2x ectos? So you're not dodging steal with your million evades?

    So you're not dodging the condi burst with your million evades?

    Seriously thieves have no right whatsoever to complain about evades.

    ** throws apple** thats all it is though, no casting inside evade frames

    Plenty of attacking while evading with sd.

    locked into animation

    An animation combo that crits for 7k if it lands.

    huh? on what target? or are including FS and LS? the point i made with "locked into animation" is that you can f3 FS at the last bit, denying the thief FS and also interrupting it.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

    Thief counters mes because of ecto. As we ve seen in jawgeous's vid. Even Mr God of pvp thief sindrener can't beat a guy who just hopped on a mesmer for 1 whole day lol.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

    Thief counters mes because of ecto. As we ve seen in jawgeous's vid. Even Mr God of pvp thief sindrener can't beat a guy who just hopped on a mesmer for 1 whole day lol.

    Ectox2 with on a medium cd, condi cleanse on demand, high evade uptime.
    Like Odik mentioned above, sd thief should never lose to condi mirage.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    It's baffling how people think it's okay to be able to evade any hard bursts in any state, why is it so hard to understand? We'll never know.

    Being able to spam visual clutter that used to take some thinking and now done by nearly anything you press.

    Mesmer is truly one of a kind and outmost favorite profession of Anet most likely.

    I miss the days without PoF. Wasn't much of a mess compared now.

    Warriors can burst while invulnerable since day 1.
    Thieves, rangers, revs can also land hard bursts while being invulnerable.

    So mesmer doing it is a problem but the rest no....
    It was easier to say: I don't want to pay attention to mesmer and kill them without even trying.

    A skill is far more different than an "evade". You ever heard of utility?

    Sure passive traits are so difficult to use...

    How can you keep missing the kitten point, evading with endurance at any state is broken and goes against the game philosophy.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

    Thief counters mes because of ecto. As we ve seen in jawgeous's vid. Even Mr God of pvp thief sindrener can't beat a guy who just hopped on a mesmer for 1 whole day lol.

    You mean the video where Jawgeous died in the first clip after losing consistently to thief? On a build designed to stall out and win 1v1s?
    The 2nd fight Sinds team had mid and home and had just killed 2 people, what's he gonna do? Join the team fight that will evolve on one of the points? No, he delays full cap of far against the mesmer and even full caps it when power mesmer comes.

    The best thing is that he puts at the end "Somehow I'm out on top" - Ignoring the "somehow" showing he's done 0 analysis on why he was on top by his reasoning, no he's not, red has had the only ticking nodes for some time, sure they're now 2 people down but blue is about to lose a guy and be 4v3 across the map picking up 1 node to equalise nodes but 100 points behind.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlackTruth.6813 said:
    There will ALWAYS be entitled mesmers in the game who think it is hard to evade while attacking. What is the point of GW2 because of fail developers and fail entitled brats like Mesmers.

    Why is there no demand for a classic GW2 server? People are actual idiots sigh.

    Calling anyone who plays a class (regardless of build) a brat, invalidates any point you make.

    Goes double for calling people idiots. Appears your points onward here have become void. Take care and have a great day bro.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Thief got no invul and retargeting. Invul and evade are 2 different things, which kinda show ur small knowledge about game mechanics(kinda funny if ur leg) . Thief has 2 s evade on passive(and 4s on dagger storm, yeah that should get nerf) , u only pick that trait, becouse others are useless.
    If mirage is not played on high Elo its mainly becouse of other overcreeped specs (holo, boonbeast), but putting mirage in comparison with other op classes don't make it less op - as soon as they get nerfed, mirage will again dominate a meta.
    Same problem as with mentioned above, little risk to high reward. I'm curious if someone calculated what is the evade/invul uptime on mirage(I'm almost sure 50% or above.), but on this evade time, ur free to kitten on your enemy. If u miss the burst u can burst him again, and again.
    To sum up:
    -evade spam
    -condi and power burst spam, even on evade frames
    -clone spam
    -evade while stunned-mirage cloak should not let u evade while stunned, if not traited. If traited, it should give u exhaustion if u dodge while stunned, it would be fair.
    All these arguments make mirage rly hard, and annoying to fight against. Not gonna mention the meta chaos build, that is loaded with all kind of boons, and is tanky, while still doing all mentioned above.

  • ezd.6359ezd.6359 Member ✭✭✭

    Mesmers have same amount of evades.
    ... clone spam :) Oh. Wars do waaaagh spam, rangers whistle spam.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ^ Stealth is a target break, so thief has it.
    Mirage doesn't have evade spam, mirage is one of the professions with the least amount of vigor.
    There is no such thing as burst spam, power can burst once every 12sec.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    ^ Stealth is a target break, so thief has it.
    Mirage doesn't have evade spam, mirage is one of the professions with the least amount of vigor.
    There is no such thing as burst spam, power can burst once every 12sec.

    Nah, he already mentioned stealth, retargeting is what mirage has on some skills(2 of them I think?).
    Mirage don't have evade spam, it has evade/invul spam: axe 3, sword 2, staff 2(not an evade, but effect is the same), F4, mirage cloak from healing skill, not sure if I missed anything

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2019

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    It's baffling how people think it's okay to be able to evade any hard bursts in any state, why is it so hard to understand? We'll never know.

    Being able to spam visual clutter that used to take some thinking and now done by nearly anything you press.

    Mesmer is truly one of a kind and outmost favorite profession of Anet most likely.

    I miss the days without PoF. Wasn't much of a mess compared now.

    Warriors can burst while invulnerable since day 1.
    Thieves, rangers, revs can also land hard bursts while being invulnerable.

    So mesmer doing it is a problem but the rest no....
    It was easier to say: I don't want to pay attention to mesmer and kill them without even trying.

    A skill is far more different than an "evade". You ever heard of utility?

    Sure passive traits are so difficult to use...

    How can you keep missing the kitten point, evading with endurance at any state is broken and goes against the game philosophy.

    Can you link that gaming philosophy or rule?
    I can't seem to find the official source from Anet listed about this.

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    ,staff 2(not an evade, but effect is the same),

    No ..That's not an evade.
    The effect isn't the same because you can still take damage.

    This is as bad as saying black powder on thief is an invuln cause it blinds.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    ,staff 2(not an evade, but effect is the same),

    No ..That's not an evade.
    The effect isn't the same because you can still take damage.

    This is as bad as saying black powder on thief is an invuln cause it blinds.

    I dunno I saw a video from someone in plat who said it is, are you trying to tell me someone who got top 100 doesn't know the difference between evade and teleport or that it matters?

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    when can we see day3? you must be god teir now ?

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2019

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Ansau.7326 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    It's baffling how people think it's okay to be able to evade any hard bursts in any state, why is it so hard to understand? We'll never know.

    Being able to spam visual clutter that used to take some thinking and now done by nearly anything you press.

    Mesmer is truly one of a kind and outmost favorite profession of Anet most likely.

    I miss the days without PoF. Wasn't much of a mess compared now.

    Warriors can burst while invulnerable since day 1.
    Thieves, rangers, revs can also land hard bursts while being invulnerable.

    So mesmer doing it is a problem but the rest no....
    It was easier to say: I don't want to pay attention to mesmer and kill them without even trying.

    A skill is far more different than an "evade". You ever heard of utility?

    Sure passive traits are so difficult to use...

    How can you keep missing the kitten point, evading with endurance at any state is broken and goes against the game philosophy.

    No, you're the one who's not getting it. Evading bursts at any state without effort isn't a new thing from Mirage. Other professions have had similar mechanics through passive invulnerabilities since day 1. But it's only an issue when mesmers have it.
    Btw, the fact you consider this as against game philosophy tells us how little you know about this game. Combat has always been dominated and characterized by cheesy mechanics: Passive invulnerabilities, passive healing outperforming 90% of active healings, unlimited stealth access, AoE doing more than single target skills, skills doing insane damage, evades in spammable skills, skills with range beyond reasonable terms, insane damage modifiers, unblockable as a buff and not tied to specific skills...

    If anything, Mirage Cloak is just another example of the combat philosophy of this game.

    Then all professions should be able to use endurance evade while Immobilized/CC'd according to you. All that useless blabber trying to prove a point that it's not gaming breaking to evade with endurance out of a punish because you couldn't react fast enough yourself.

    Mirage Cloak is not an example of this game philosophy at all, punishes requires utility to counter drawbacks with cooldown and Mirage Cloak doesn't, evading was uniform across all professions to be reactive with the Daredevil having the slightest variants that compliments the role of being a low health pool professions using a weapon that has emphasis on not being stealthy but engaged in combat like a frontline profession and was actually nerfed in the one it should be as well. Mirage Cloak should have never be accessible on Evade from the base, Elusive Mind should be forced to gain access to Mirage Cloak on evade or evades shouldn't be doable at all if hard CC'd, CC is the use of a status to disable someone and force them to use utility to recover. Do you get it yet or do you prefer having Anet constantly nerfing the wrong things? I think the latter is obvious since were going in that direction.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2019

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    when can we see day3? you must be god teir now ?

    God of Pvp......does that work??

    ((once more, don't blame nor attack mesmer player(s) for being given a broken profession to be abused))

    (Day 2 Mirage... power (skill? don't need it)'', 'He should've killed me', 'I don't know what i am doing'??, 'don't need any skill'

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2019

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    when can we see day3? you must be god teir now ?

    God of Pvp......does that work??

    ((once more, don't blame nor attack mesmer player(s) for being given a broken profession to be abused))

    (Day 2 Mirage... power (skill? don't need it)'', 'He should've killed me', 'I don't know what i am doing'??, 'don't need any skill'

    Noob of pvp.

    That thumb nail though.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2019

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    [insert general hard to play is the reason it is OK to be OP argument]

    If you believe Mirage is hard to play, you are falling under the fallacy that (a) Mirage does not have easy invuln/stealth/retarget/escape/low CC clear/gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets or covers those errors and (b) that you are playing the game 3+ years ago when the average PvP player has not spent at least 40 hours minimum on each class by now. Even if (b) were not true - which would be a large stretch - (a) is clearly the reason why Mirage is OP. Mirage is easily the most forgiving of all PvP classes on the risk v reward scale.

    The reason you are not seeing Mirage at the top of the boards is because you are not but there is plenty of them - more times than not, at least two per match per side. Defending Mirage at this point is a sign that you do not care for the longevity of PvP gameplay or fairness.

    That being said, abuse the kitten out of it until it gets nerfed :)

    thief has invul, stealth, retarget, " escape" , " low cc clear" (lol whats that), " gimmick abilities that circumvents and resets those errors (thief has a passive, mirage doesn't ) , engi has invul, stealth, stability and so on, ele does, every class does

    i've played every class

    mirage isn't the most forgiving class even remotely close lol. I consistently get oneshot by retaliation + smite condition from core guards because retaliation somehow is capable of doing 8-10k dmg burst in less than 2 seconds cus every skill you use is multihit and you get hit for 1k dmg on every attack you on top of 5k insta cast smite condi

    and about the part where i'm not in " top of the boards" is a good joke

    i finished legendary both last seasons and i was in top 20 for 80% of the last season and the only reason it wasn't 100% was cause i just kept playing games instead camping on my elo and cause i didn't play for 2 weeks . I mean, you can literally check in game right now the stats for previous season and see how much of a lying kid you are and considering this forum uses account names and considering i play with the top 50 all the time i can pretty much say that you're someone who's never been in legendary and you're not a high elo player so you pretty much have no clue what you're talking about, in case that wasn't obvious

    Attacking mirage is a sign that you don't care about fairness because the class is not even a top 3 class both in representation by players and in actual strength but you're so mad that you want them to nerf it even further because a nerf every patch for the last 9 months wasn't enough apparently so you need more cus you're too unskilled to beat mirage players otherwise

    and somehow everyone else manages to do it because on average in top 50 there are less than 5 mirages (which is less than the average people should be per class. If we have 9 classes in the game then we should have more than 5 people of each class on average and mirage is usually less than that which is a complete joke). Not only it's preposterous to say that mirage is good but you even go as far as saying that its the most problematic and overpowered class in the game, which is nowhere even remotely the case. Not by statistics, not by facts, not by my opinion either, which matters more than yours when it comes down to gw2 pvp

    @Nekromalistik.7045 said:
    I already want to see the salty main mesmers with trash excuses :v

    implying everyone crying about mesmers already isn't a salty main with trash excuses for being a bad player and beggining arena net staff to nerf an already average class to make it even worse

    Hold on. Since when did thief have invur? Hahahah if u r talking about dagger storm its an evade and there r counter skills. U can also just walk away till the skill is finished...

    While thief does have stealth it has no where near the amount of sustained dps a mesmer has.

    N unless u r talking about deadeye. There's not much instant stealth abilities apart from binding power and heart seeker combo. There's dagger 5 but u have to land it. Mesmer stealth doesn't need to land anything or need any combo. Yeah thief has a passive so what??? Because a thief dies in like 2-3 hits from every other class. It is known to be the worst 1v1 class in PVP. N it's damage is tiny compared to that of a mesner burst. Plz don't make kitten up. It's seriously nuts u r comparing the amount of stealth invur reflect teleport de-targeting skills to the small amount a thief has.

    U really need to go play thief to understand what u wrote is complete b.s.

    I am not going to say mirage is op but if u r comparing thief... That's basically the worst comparison. Since a mesmer has so many more skills available to it to both do dmg and sustain. The best thing a thief has is mobility to reset.

    We're talking power mes here so thief has more sustain dps than mes.
    Yes mes stealth doesn't need combo and it's instant oh it has also a moderate CD on it, meanwhile thief can stealth for days.
    Power mes dies in 2 3 hits too, it has also less condi cleanse than thief.

    Yeah on burst mes wins, but thief can burst more often.
    Thief has more shadowsteps and stealth what the heck are you talking about.

    Also thief counters mesmer since the dawn of time.

    Thief counters mes because of ecto. As we ve seen in jawgeous's vid. Even Mr God of pvp thief sindrener can't beat a guy who just hopped on a mesmer for 1 whole day lol.

    Ectox2 with on a medium cd, condi cleanse on demand, high evade uptime.
    Like Odik mentioned above, sd thief should never lose to condi mirage.

    Except sindrener did to a guy who just played mesmer for 2 days. .. And he is a legendary ranked thief so there's that.

  • Simonoly.4352Simonoly.4352 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2019

    Maybe the OP won the 1v1+1+1 because all three of the players they came up against played really poorly and the OP is just better at the game? From the video: the Thief was completely incapable of maintaining pressure when the Mirage was low and without endurance even though this is exactly what Thief is good for and seemed to just be randomly spamming vault/bound - no risk of actually losing here. The Guardian just....thought a non defensive res was a good idea against a power burst class - the Guardian is almost entirely irrelevant in this video actually. As for the Warrior...dodged precisely one time randomly when the Mirage wasn't attacking, used healing signet right in front of the Mirage which prevented any sort of actual recovery, didn't actually dodge again or use shield stance so ate all of the Mesmer's attacks and never bothered to kite with GS when running low - just because you've rolled a Warrior, doesn't mean you can ignore defensive play people! Also, why did they all rotate in a one by one fashion onto a point against a class that's designed to win duels? Madness!

    I think the same results would have been achievable on other classes. A Soulbeast or Holosmith might have actually ended the fights quicker.

  • Luna.6203Luna.6203 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2019

    honest question I know that i'm not important enough to get some official answer. But i'm going to try it anyway. Please can any community manager ansfer me:
    **Are you going to nerf mirage-mesmer or not ? ** or are you planning to ?

    People creating new topics all time about mirage. it's all pointless because of :
    1) There is absolutely nothing new... It's just repeating all over same thinks.
    2) It seems like nothing happening... You dont care or it's intended.

    Last night at pvp lobby almost 50% players was mirage. Coincidence right ? 90% teams got 2xmesmer. But i guess it's just because people like purple color. I'm really curious if you have any official data how many mirage-mesmers actually playing right now ? I'm pretty sure you have and i'm 100% sure you have to be aware of this situation. Than why ? it's really your lovely favored class or what ? i don't understand and look how long this problem endure...

    So let me rephrase question. Is this state of mirage really intended ? and it's going to stay that way ? Because if yes best way is probably roll one or make something that can actually counter them which is not case for majority of classes where you chance to win against mirage is something about zero percent.

    P.S. And please don't tell you are working on balance patch. Because overall balance is not that bad. There will always be some classes more powerful than others no matter how hard you try to put them on line. But mirage is beyond normal imbalance. It's ridiculous. Really you can't win against them unless they are incredible bad.. Usually bots.

    I can't really believe how long you ignore that problem. Sorry but it's just no longer fun and it's time to act.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    U know a class is ridiculously op when the mesmer try hardship always resort to the most ridiculous rational’s to defend their class. Yeaaahhhh that’s right don’t move or cast skills that’s how U’ll kill me,no point in running cuz my thief like mobility,so yeahhh it’s ok shhhh it’s ok just stand there and don’t attack and u’ll Sure show me lol
    So classes have to use all their utility slots for Condi removal to avoid the one class from abusing condi’s.scourge does but avoid the aoe circles and ur good. Than If torment is stacked don’t move or use skills lol nice! But we’re sopised to be aggressive to take them down but be aggressive with less movement or skill usage,also nice! Ontop of their high evades and defences they can disengage or chase as well as thief. That right there sounds like a well thought out spec and completely balanced,not sure what the community has an issue with?lol

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2019

    @Luna.6203 said:
    honest question I know that i'm not important enough to get some official answer. But i'm going to try it anyway. Please can any community manager ansfer me:
    **Are you going to nerf mirage-mesmer or not ? ** or are you planning to ?

    Actually when we spend hours doing balance suggestions with nerfs and up who answer literraly every main things peoples are crying about mesmer while not letting mesmers be useless then when you see only 3 mesmer participate in this post while 90% of players prefering create new : "nerf mersmer, nerf mesmer, ..." posts...
    Same for other balance suggestion posts other than "nerf all" because "I don't play mesmer so I don't care as long as I just one shot them."
    What to say... 90% of people are just no productive sentimental who will never have an overall vision of what they ask for.

  • UfoCoffee.2084UfoCoffee.2084 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    There is absolutely no way to fight against it without taking an obscene amount of condition removal. You have confusion on you? Doesn't matter if you don't attack to avoid damage, they will kill you anyway. Got Torment on you? Doesn't matter if you don't move to avoid damage, it will kill you anyway. What's the point in even HAVING conditions if there is no way to play around them except for removal?

    And you wanna know the worst thing about it?
    you can't even run away. That's the worst thing.

    It's just horrible design. Even if you dodge their initial stealth burst.

    They can just spam clones and condi you up again and again.

    Then you have to stand still and not use any skills? What kind of game design is that? Just ridiculous.

    That's just their attacking options. Do I even need to go into their god-like defense? You can't hit them.

    So you play immaculately you dodge all their kitten, basically don't touch the keyboard for periods of time then you think they must have everything on cd? Nah they just evade evade evade, stealth and everything's back up.

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭

    So, after a decent amount of duo games, my only issue with condi mirage, or mirage in general?

    The CC.

    The dazes, the stuns, the blinds, the fact clones can chase people for AGES. I've finally (after some practice on my reflexes) am able to tab to get to the original mesmer fast enough in a high pressured fight, but the CC that the class gets with almost every shatter is atrocious. The Condi is ridiculous, but let's me honest. Less people would probably complain if they weren't getting dazed, blind, or stunned spammed into oblivion while having Condi on them.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Is this a new one, or is this the resurrected previous one?

  • Condi mirage is a carrying spec that has made spvp more like feeling you're swimming in a cessppol and kitten wvw roaming even worse then it was before. It's a frustrating mess that only super high burst classes or super players call balanced. Anet balance and mirage slipperyness has done so much damage to the game. Even you three content streamers and their viewers make fun of this kitten. Good job continuing to kitten two of the three game modes.

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Aza.2105 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:
    The problem players are having with Mirage is that when they try to roll their face on the keyboard and just spam their offensives it doesnt work out quite so fantastic is does for them in a regular mid-fight.
    The Mirage is a duelist and is extremely fragile when caught with his pants down....you suggest to take away his dueling capability and leave him with what....exactly?

    They are not fragile. The best form of tanking is not getting hit at all. And mesmer is master of not taking direct damage. Don't pretend like you don't know why they don't. With that said, even when the tankiest class specs for max toughness or health and purposely takes every defensive type skill and trait. They will melt in seconds. Ultimately, Condi Mesmers problem is just a reflection of bigger problems going on with the game itself. Damage is too high overall in pvp, boons are too abundant.

    I still stay behind what I said. They have evades but are fragile....similar to thieves.
    Im not going to claim to know much since I only play at gold 1-2 but I am not seeing an over representation of mirages...if anything the most popular class I see is necro by far.
    I can also say that as a mirage I saw a huge difference from unranked to silver to gold like I didnt with other classes, in silver especially people constantly attack my clones and cuss and me - this doenst happen at gold at all.

    Nani?!
    What are YOU talking about.
    I've been in gold 2-3 grinding up to plat and ALL I saw was two mirages every team? kitten, I WISH I had games without mirages. Makes it easier for me when bunkering on a point with Weaver or changing a team fight as Firebrand.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019
  • crewthief.8649crewthief.8649 Member ✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    The entire point of "Mirage" is that it's not really there... attacks go through it." To remove this ability would be to abrogate the theme of the class even more thoroughly than was done with Chronomancer. ( By nerfing alacrity and distributing it to other classes )

    I think that attempting to make Mesmer into a brawler is a mistake. A light armor class needs to be OP just to survive close combat. Besides.. Mesmer is a sabotage and trickery profession , not a martial artist. A d/d ele has skills and a theme suitable to close combat. A Mesmer does not.

    I would also point out that numerous posters have expressed that they simply hate Mesmer and want to see it crippled.

    For me personally, I simply do not care about the "theme of the class" at this point. Evading while CC'd and the amount of pressure they can generate while evading, is simply too much. Every class should be forced to play within a certain set of rules, namely, if you fail to dodge a key CC, you should be punished. Pure and simple.

    It is extremely oppressive, and dominating ranked play. "You don't see nothing but Mirage on the leaderboard," yeah, yeah, but you DO see an abundance of them within every match (3-4 in my experience, on average), and those players have an inequitable impact on match outcome for the amount of effort required to produce said outcome. I'm not the greatest player in the game (not even close), in fact, I suppose I'd be right at average (Gold 2), but I have played MMOs regularly for around 16 years and I've never seen a class so completely transcend gameplay rules within the context of its game setting. It needs serious nerfing.

  • @Kako.1930 said:
    Wow, it's nice that the threads finally got merged but seeing 5 pages about condi mes makes it seem like it's game breaking or something, and it's not that bad in my opinion. O.o;;

    It's strong, easy, and gimmicky, but it's not dominating every match or anything...

    (Then again, half of the posts seem to just be mesmer mains defending their main, lol.)

    They can dominate side nodes, so by default, they can dominate matches. Have you yet to experience a condi Mirage having an inequitable impact on a match? I have.

  • crewthief.8649crewthief.8649 Member ✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Aza.2105 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:
    The problem players are having with Mirage is that when they try to roll their face on the keyboard and just spam their offensives it doesnt work out quite so fantastic is does for them in a regular mid-fight.
    The Mirage is a duelist and is extremely fragile when caught with his pants down....you suggest to take away his dueling capability and leave him with what....exactly?

    They are not fragile. The best form of tanking is not getting hit at all. And mesmer is master of not taking direct damage. Don't pretend like you don't know why they don't. With that said, even when the tankiest class specs for max toughness or health and purposely takes every defensive type skill and trait. They will melt in seconds. Ultimately, Condi Mesmers problem is just a reflection of bigger problems going on with the game itself. Damage is too high overall in pvp, boons are too abundant.

    I still stay behind what I said. They have evades but are fragile....similar to thieves.
    Im not going to claim to know much since I only play at gold 1-2 but I am not seeing an over representation of mirages...if anything the most popular class I see is necro by far.
    I can also say that as a mirage I saw a huge difference from unranked to silver to gold like I didnt with other classes, in silver especially people constantly attack my clones and cuss and me - this doenst happen at gold at all.

    Nani?!
    What are YOU talking about.
    I've been in gold 2-3 grinding up to plat and ALL I saw was two mirages every team? kitten, I WISH I had games without mirages. Makes it easier for me when bunkering on a point with Weaver or changing a team fight as Firebrand.

    It's a Mesmer main, don't expect objective dialogue. It's all of us that are wrong. This smarmy attitude is one of the reasons I want it nuked from orbit, if I'm being completely honest.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mbelch.9028 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Couple things that need to be posted in this thread:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=RwxFw0_ASr4 <- Jawgeous Mirage Hate
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66114/will-mirage-ever-get-a-proper-nerf/p1 <- Important discussion with a lot of good feedback

    Does the Jawgeous mirage hate vid need to be in here though? Among players with a good understanding of the game, it's pretty clear that while his frustration is fair, he's just scrolling through mirage skills and saying "Why does this do that?!"

    Per usual, I'm not defending the one cancer condi mirage build, I'm just saying Jawgeous doesn't know what he's talking about in that video lol.

    Way too funny to not post here.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @crewthief.8649 said:
    It is extremely oppressive, and dominating ranked play. "You don't see nothing but Mirage on the leaderboard," yeah, yeah, but you DO see an abundance of them within every match (3-4 in my experience, on average), and those players have an inequitable impact on match outcome for the amount of effort required to produce said outcome. I'm not the greatest player in the game (not even close), in fact, I suppose I'd be right at average (Gold 2), but I have played MMOs regularly for around 16 years and I've never seen a class so completely transcend gameplay rules within the context of its game setting. It needs serious nerfing.

    Well said. It's kind of like if Goku showed up to fight Tekken characters or something. lol

  • @Mbelch.9028 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Couple things that need to be posted in this thread:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=RwxFw0_ASr4 <- Jawgeous Mirage Hate
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66114/will-mirage-ever-get-a-proper-nerf/p1 <- Important discussion with a lot of good feedback

    Does the Jawgeous mirage hate vid need to be in here though? Among players with a good understanding of the game, it's pretty clear that while his frustration is fair, he's just scrolling through mirage skills and saying "Why does this do that?!"

    Per usual, I'm not defending the one cancer condi mirage build, I'm just saying Jawgeous doesn't know what he's talking about in that video lol.

    Kinda yeah, his comparisons were weak but he still have some points to be looked at.
    I can't agree on the shatter parts cause those are traited, you have to trait them to get confusion on all shatters and blinds but I do have to agree that you reapply conditions too often for a normal builds to handle. I mean, you can dodge and clear all you want but in the end of the day, there always some clones to apply conditions and not to mention how secure it is compared with another condi build.
    At the end of the day, people will cry about mesmer but some crys are justified, in this case they are. I prefer to fight a power mesmer than a condi one simply because I know that if I play well, I'm rewarded.

  • UfoCoffee.2084UfoCoffee.2084 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arlette.9684 said:
    Thank's for the merge Gaile. My overly honest opinion on the matter of all class balance threads for that matter is:

    The bulk of players on the forum have either extreme views of class balance or ones that are completely disconnected from reality. It is my FIRM belief, that The Systems team, would do well to take every piece of feedback in regards to class balance (regardless of class in question) with a grain of salt the size of Texas. None of us like to lose, so in our blind rage, we tend to spew hate towards this or that class (I saw 3 separate threads, for 3 separate classes demanding nerfs, JUST TODAY), without really knowing what prompted said hate. I blame the still rather limited (it's gotten much better over the years) combat log, that doesn't provide a comprehensive enough picture to draw conclussions, as well as player ignorance that stems from the rather unintuitive way the game teaches you, about game and class mechanics.

    Mesmer main.

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2019

    @dagger dave.5201 said:
    Mirage is imo the easiest to deal with out of all "side noders".
    Problem is gold players think they are plat and plat think they are legend, So when they fight the top 10% and get destroyed it must all be the class and not the massive difference in skill.

    Mirage is highly effective at low rating because people just spam autos with confusion or panic press's everything.

    This is objectively false. If it was bad at high skill levels no one would be running it in Monthly ATs. Most of the EU AT teams were running a Mirage, and when they didn't it was because the situation called for soulbeast. A couple teams even ran double mirage.

    Stop spreading misinformation just to defend a busted class.

    The fact is mirage has far too high defenses that cannot be justified on a spec that is capable of attacking while defending at the same time. Any scrub can sustain themselves for days playing staff mirage, not just in 1v1s but in teamfights too, all the while doing lethal damage. Unless it sees a serious reduction in the invuln spam and ability to flat out ignore CC mechanics mirage will always be busted and core mes + chronomancer will continue to be unfairly hit with nonsense nerfs intended for mirage.

  • Shadow Order.7258Shadow Order.7258 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2019

    No it shouldn't. It's a waste of that person's time. Just like most feedback is. They aren't going to do anything with mirage. The class is broken at its base level. Since they just reworked the cancer that is clone spam and mirage is designed to be slippery don't expect a change.

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Buff Mirage they need more damage multiplier imo.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.