List of simple nerfs that would fix current PvP

I believe that a resemblance of balance in this game is purposely avoided for unknown reasons , the real issues are so blatlanty obvious and they don't require massive experience in game designing to recognize and don't definitely require multiple patches with extensive nerfs to fix......

1.Mesmer-https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lingering_Thoughts-https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Axes_of_Symmetry-http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imaginary_Axes

2.Engineer-https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Holographic_Shockwave

3.Warrior-https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Full_Counter-https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revenge_Counter

4.Ranger-https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moa_Stance

About warrior, the full counter mechanic is not really OP in itself, the implementation is wrong , the damage component should be removed and wouldn't mind a 2-4s CD reduction as compensation, holoforge skill 5 is just nut...it bypass LoS/walls and altitude...absolutely ridiculous. Moa stance is just busted with its 15s duration over 25s CD...wtf....and finally mirage, we do get that it's supposed to be the best duellist in the game ( they have a traitline called "duellist" after all ) but the condi application of axe mirage is just stupid, must cut the stacks of confusion/torments by at least 65%.

The rest is just all L2P and necessary buffs/changes to forgotten ones

If condi falls severely out of favor I would also say magebane tether should be looked at on war. Bit too much benefit for no effort.

'At least 65%' .That's just funny.

Fantastic suggestions. Honestly, they're amazing.

Having a 6 second cooldown on Full Counter? Genius!I would definitely love having a 6 second cooldown evade, AoE daze, burst refresher, adrenal health proc, unblockable double boon remover, and 100 power/ferocity damage buff. Of course, it would be balanced because it no longer does 908 damage. !_!

If Holographic Shockwave didn't go over terrain, the entire spec would be balanced! Like you said, THIS is the real issue with the class.It's definitely not the fact that they have access to:

1. near permanent quickness uptime through elixirs and kinetic battery
2. 2 second cooldown 1000 base damage leap
3. 5/6 uptime on 2 stacks of stability
4. 24 second cooldown rampage/tornado
5. 2500 base damage auto chain
6. Long duration, short cooldown cc chains

I won't even go over the other ones because they make so much sense. I'm very glad you understand the current meta builds, what makes them strong, and how to balance them. :+1:

I can't believe people still think War needs nerfs. It sucks. Remove damage on full counter? Lol.

@"shadowpass.4236" said:Fantastic suggestions. Honestly, they're amazing.

Having a 6 second cooldown on Full Counter? Genius!I would definitely love having a 6 second cooldown evade, AoE daze, burst refresher, adrenal health proc, unblockable double boon remover, and 100 power/ferocity damage buff. Of course, it would be balanced because it no longer does 908 damage. !_!

If Holographic Shockwave didn't go over terrain, the entire spec would be balanced! Like you said, THIS is the real issue with the class.It's definitely not the fact that they have access to:

1. near permanent quickness uptime through elixirs and kinetic battery
2. 2 second cooldown 1000 base damage leap
3. 5/6 uptime on 2 stacks of stability
4. 24 second cooldown rampage/tornado
5. 2500 base damage auto chain
6. Long duration, short cooldown cc chains

I won't even go over the other ones because they make so much sense. I'm very glad you understand the current meta builds, what makes them strong, and how to balance them. :+1:

You fail to understand how the whole MMO genre works .....You see there are people who actually wants a challenge and at the same time they want others to have fun while playing their favourite class, a shocker for you no doubt.

You again fail to read the whole OP where I clearly stated that :"The rest is just all L2P and necessary buffs/changes to forgotten ones", yes we're talking about melee specs and they're supposed to hurt you badly upclose.

1. near permanent quickness uptime through elixirs and kinetic battery...and?
2. 2 second cooldown 1000 base damage leap...kite/dodge/run maybe?
3. 5/6 uptime on 2 stacks of stability...time your CC?...yeah for that you should know first what timing is, which is quite diffucult for those used to follow a rotation with their copy/paste meta build
4. 24 second cooldown rampage/tornado...kite maybe?...too much druid gameplay and people forget the basics of stealth/kiting on base ranger
5. 2500 base damage auto chain....pfff...since when has been direct dmg a mortal danger for rangers?
6. Long duration, short cooldown cc chains...honestly for how long have you been playing ranger?..it seems to me that you forgot the most basic tactics commonly used against tough targets ,may I suggest you to play core ranger for an extensive period of time in ranked? ,it helps greatly to improve your reaction times when you can't rely on the gimmicks of HoT/PoF expansions.

Do you understand than going melee means going against all possible ranged crap throwed at you and that after managing to get close you must deal enough dmg to scare off the opponent?Here let me link the description of typical warrior in the MMO genre:

The Brute

The brute used to be the main tank in the game, that is, until the Paladins arrived. Brutes are technically the Berserkers, Champions, Warriors, Barbarians, and Knights we know and love. They have high HP and pack a whole lot of PAIN. They are also capable of wearing the highest form of armor in terms of defense, but lack magic defense most of the time. Brutes are always better than spell casters in terms of PVP (despite their lack of knowledge). All they need to do is hack and slash, eventually taking the flag emerging victorious. They don’t really have to be buff, just as long as they fit the description. Take pain and deliver MORE PAIN. That’s all that matters.

As you can see, any dev in any game will have to follow this description because that's what players using a melee spec will expect, failing to understand that is to fail to understand how MMO work

Take this other one as bonus

The Ranger

Rangers (Archers, Hunters, Bowmen, Gunner) are mid balanced characters who specialize in the field of nature. They can tame beasts as well as other creatures of the wild to aid them in battle. Rangers are similar to the likes of Legolas (Lord of the Rings) with a few extra kinks, such as not being limited to bow wielding <_< LOL. Rangers are excellent trackers as well, giving them the extra hand in PVP. Although these individuals are limited to mid-ranged armor, their allies (or pets) give them an outrageous attack power that can kill even the mightiest of Brutes. They also prefer to fight at long range, along with their pets, but ultimately Rangers are dangerous regardless of range.

They did a pretty good job here the devs at anet won't you agree?

@"EpicTurtle.8571" said:'At least 65%' .That's just funny.

Yeah it's called : " reducing condi burst" aka reducing stacks of confusion from 3 to 1-2....if you prefer to see mesmer gutted at core level to compensate for OP mirage..well that's on you

@Poelala.2830 said:I can't believe people still think War needs nerfs. It sucks. Remove damage on full counter? Lol.

War doesn't suck....it is simply overshadowed by few other specs

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:I can't believe people still think War needs nerfs. It sucks. Remove damage on full counter? Lol.

War sucks BECAUSE it is overshadowed by MOST specs.

@Poelala.2830 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:I can't believe people still think War needs nerfs. It sucks. Remove damage on full counter? Lol.

War problem is that they rely too much on passive gameplay and if that would be gone...it'd be easier to advocate for active sustain buffs like shout heal reduction in CD and casting time etc etc etc but right now it's hard to justify any direct buff to current war...we'd go straight back to PoF launch period with 2-3 spellbreakers per team , see the uncompetitive and unsportman like gw2 community will always flock to the easiest most effective build

I can't help but remember that the majority of wars I used to meet in wvw or pvp didn't even need to look for their dodge button and that's the whole issue with warrriors in gw2, players got used to lazy passive gameplay and if you take that away now...all hell break loose ...but if you buff them then all hell would break loose either way,

So no, wars don't suck ,they are overshadowed by few more OP specs in terms of sustain/dmg ratio; the class has well defined traits and developed weapon skills

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"EpicTurtle.8571" said:'At least 65%' .That's just funny.

If you knew how Mesmer worked at all you'd realize Cry of Frustration is what stacks on the confusion which is a core Mesmer skill and Cry of Pain is what gives it extra stacks on the Illusion trait line, which is also core. But it's obvious you don't. You also don't realize that means every single condi cleanse also has to get toned down so sustained condition damage builds can actually work.

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:'At least 65%' .That's just funny.

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:'At least 65%' .That's just funny.

Toning down condi cleanse and would be awesome, condi engineer would be viable then. I am all for fewer stacks longer duration on conditions.

leave engi out of your nerf lists, thanks :)

@Tehologist.5841 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:'At least 65%' .That's just funny.

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:'At least 65%' .That's just funny.

It would be awesome, now ask yourself if you think ANet would ever do it

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:'At least 65%' .That's just funny.

Are you suggesting to nerf core mesmer instead than mirage? Ok go on...also if you want to reduce condi cleanse, we must first add ways to decrease condi dmg like new boons, new runes etc etc etc etc

@Bossun.2046 said:leave engi out of your nerf lists, thanks :)

People seems to become rather protective when the nerf talk starts....but nerfs are always necessary to rein in the gameplay...and nerfs will come down no matter how much people get passionate about their class, the closer we get to an equal playing field and the better it is for everybody

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

Fantastic

suggestions. Honestly, they're amazing.

Having a 6 second cooldown on Full Counter?

Genius!

I would definitely love having a 6 second cooldown evade, AoE daze, burst refresher, adrenal health proc, unblockable double boon remover, and 100 power/ferocity damage buff. Of course, it would be balanced because it no longer does 908 damage. !_!

If Holographic Shockwave didn't go over terrain, the entire spec would be balanced! Like you said, THIS is the real issue with the class.It's definitely not the fact that they have access to:

1. near permanent quickness uptime through elixirs and kinetic battery
2. 2 second cooldown 1000 base damage leap
3. 5/6 uptime on 2 stacks of stability
4. 24 second cooldown rampage/tornado
5. 2500 base damage auto chain
6. Long duration, short cooldown cc chains

I won't even go over the other ones because they make

so

much sense. I'm very glad you understand the current meta builds, what makes them strong, and how to balance them. :+1:

1. near permanent quickness uptime through elixirs and kinetic battery...and?
2. 2 second cooldown 1000 base damage leap...kite/dodge/run maybe?
3. 5/6 uptime on 2 stacks of stability...time your CC?...yeah for that you should know first what timing is, which is quite diffucult for those used to follow a rotation with their copy/paste meta build
4. 24 second cooldown rampage/tornado...kite maybe?...too much druid gameplay and people forget the basics of stealth/kiting on base ranger
5. 2500 base damage auto chain....pfff...since when has been direct dmg a mortal danger for rangers?
6. Long duration, short cooldown cc chains...honestly for how long have you been playing ranger?..it seems to me that you forgot the most basic tactics commonly used against tough targets ,
   may I suggest you to play core ranger for an extensive period of time in ranked?
   ,it helps greatly to improve your reaction times when you can't rely on the gimmicks of HoT/PoF expansions.

I didn't really read any of the rest.

First, I never mentioned anywhere that I struggle against holosmith. So, you're statements such as, "just kite mebbe LOL me so smart" don't serve any purpose. The 6 things I listed are the reasons why OTHER people have trouble against this build. Holosmith can out-trade any spec in melee range.

The reason why every single person is disagreeing with you is because you're coming into these discussions with a very, very poor understanding of balance. Take number 1 and 5, for example. Since you asked "and?" when I stated that holos can maintain a near permanent quickness uptime, and said "pfff" when I stated that holos had a 2500 base damage auto chain, let me do the math for you since you obviously couldn't do it yourself.

1. The current Photon Forge auto chain takes just over a second to complete.
2. With quickness, the auto chain takes around 3/4 of a second to complete.
3. At 75% critical chance, 187% critical damage, and 25% additional damage from Excessive Energy and Laser's Edge, the auto chain will generally hit for around 5000 damage.
   • (2500 .75 2.12)+((2500-1875) * 1.75) = 5058.75
4. In other words, in melee range with autos alone, a holo can deal around 6744 damage per second. (and anything else nearby with a 5 target cap).
   • 5058 * 4/3 = 6744
5. Furthermore, Photon Forge autos have nearly DOUBLE the range of other melee attacks. While most melee weapons have auto ranges of around 130-150, PF autos have a range of 240. This means they can out-range AND out-trade you in melee range. If you attempt to kite away, you're met with a 600 range leap on a 2 second cooldown that hits you for 2120 damage.
   • 1000 * 2.12 = 2120

Also, for the comment you made on number 3. A holosmith can fill the gaps with the 5/6 uptime on stability from PF3 with a dodge or elixir U. Against a ranger or mesmer with AI, a holo will land PF3 every time.

Now, since you've clearly never come across me in a game, I do run core glass ranger very frequently in high plat/legend and maintain a 70% win rate solo.

There's nothing broken about Full Counter. It's super telegraphed and if you hit it, you deserve it. The only balance problem with warriors is how oppressive their stances are, in particular dual casting endure pain.

@Hesacon.8735 said:There's nothing broken about Full Counter. It's super telegraphed and if you hit it, you deserve it.

What if you don t hit it, but got hit by that because of your teamates?

@shadowpass.4236 nerf photon 5 cause THAT'S what's op about them OMEGALULLLLL i think he is bronze or silver or doesn't play PvP at all

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Hesacon.8735 said:There's nothing broken about Full Counter. It's super telegraphed and if you hit it, you deserve it.

Or one of your various lasting AoE attacks... or a telegraphed skill with insta FC activation... and that is okay. That's how blocks work, just like dodges. And it is okay to get hit by a counter attack.

But does it have to stun? Does it have to be unblockable? Does it have to proc a gazillion of boons? Does it need that kind of AoE range (for an unblockable stun)? And - my favourite - does it have to proc adrenal health even though the attack misses?

Last thing is what they should have changed a couple of pages ago. Or let it scale differently with healing power, forcing warriors to either be sustainy or do damage. But then again, they are quite balanced now - more or less - compared to the other meta builds.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"calebswag.8265" said:holo and soulbeast are op right now and you have no idea why, because you are just some silver player most likely. you are whining about full counter, DON'T HIT IT. you are so stupid it's hilarious. Anet shouldn't listen to people like you and instead balance from the top down like other games. People like you are the reason holo and soulbeast wasn't touched at ALL when they clearly needed nerfs.

Let me correct you......you gave your opinion and that's all really, think what do you want and that can be done better in your own thread where you list the things that should be nerfed...ha don't forget to tell anet your rank in pvp

@Hesacon.8735 said:There's nothing broken about Full Counter. It's super telegraphed and if you hit it, you deserve it. The only balance problem with warriors is how oppressive their stances are, in particular dual casting endure pain.

Stances have been brought up since launch and after 6 years nothing has been changed about them, in GW1 they were balanced because each stance would cancel the previous one when activated and that forced wars down a more tactical approach to their fights; in GW2 the wars simply charge in a blaze of glory and that's it really...

Now FC offers an additional layer of defense and that should be more than enough for the way the game is handled by the devs but instead they decided to add dmg to this already easy to fire mechanic, it's easier to reduce the efficiency of FC than expect anet to rework how stances function in gw2

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"calebswag.8265" said:holo and soulbeast are op right now and you have no idea why, because you are just some silver player most likely. you are whining about full counter, DON'T HIT IT. you are so stupid it's hilarious. Anet shouldn't listen to people like you and instead balance from the top down like other games. People like you are the reason holo and soulbeast wasn't touched at ALL when they clearly needed nerfs.

I like how you ignored my direct response to you and instead chose to respond to my conversation with Caleb.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"calebswag.8265" said:holo and soulbeast are op right now and you have no idea why, because you are just some silver player most likely. you are whining about full counter, DON'T HIT IT. you are so stupid it's hilarious. Anet shouldn't listen to people like you and instead balance from the top down like other games. People like you are the reason holo and soulbeast wasn't touched at ALL when they clearly needed nerfs.

All that dmg can be avoided, by running temporarily away, teleport, kiting, blocking etc etc etc....now that becomes quite hard if the holosmith hit you from unholy distance and through walls, that you thought would protect you from the incoming wave or at the very least bought you some time.

If the engi catchs you with your pants down and kills you with a quickness combo,...well...my hat to him and that's what PvP is about, I am looking for a game where any class has the potential to kill any other one with the same level of effort, now ranger can perform too quickness combos..