Win STreaks , then forced loss streaks to punish active players

So I just went 11 wins in a row and now am being punished by mmr by a string of premature afks and people who have no idea that to win you need to 2 caps. I'm not amazing by any means and finish around a solid 1500-1600 usually but let me just be clear these are majority plat matches where I have people doing sliver tactic things like 2v1ing a bunker on enemy capped home or 3v2ing far for 2 minutes without realizing we are 3 capped and not only cant get a kill far they cant decap. rotations were nonexistent.

and after that 11 win streak I have now lost 4 in a row and continually get stuck with people who have no business playing ranked almost as if MMr is saying fuck you for doing so well. I have always had a problem with they way they changed rating after season 5 but now its painfully obvious that it has broken as this is the 5th time this week I go on a 10+ win streak only to be punished by an equal loss streak of baddies/afks/throwers/and meta bandwagons because I like to play ranked more often than others(733 games this season).

Why is winning countless games in a row perfectly fine, but losing streaks impossible without rigged matchmaking?

If I lose matches in a row, I'm going to break. You should do the same

I do not see your point. Neither in Glicko nor in the lines Anet provided (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm) or in any official statements they said something about enforcing streaks. Of course there is volatility, but longer streaks are just chance. I - for example - never experienced anything as harsh as you described.

Also, Glicko is a very common system and has proven it's abilities. It struggles with the low population, but that is not the matchmakers fault.

I once proposed some adjustments to decrease the volatility and increase incentive to play more games than the absolut necessary part (which is possible with Glicko), but it seems there is no willingness to take further care of the matchmaker.

@"Megametzler.5729" said:I do not see your point. Neither in Glicko nor in the lines Anet provided (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm) or in any official statements they said something about enforcing streaks. Of course there is volatility, but longer streaks are just chance. I - for example - never experienced anything as harsh as you described.

Also, Glicko is a very common system and has proven it's abilities. It struggles with the low population, but that is not the matchmakers fault.

I once proposed some adjustments to decrease the volatility and increase incentive to play more games than the absolut necessary part (which is possible with Glicko), but it seems there is no willingness to take further care of the matchmaker.

that's all well and good but how many games do you have? how often do you play more than 3 games ata time or lol 1 game every 3 days...

this season?

total games?

im not statistician but I can recognize a pattern or forced 50% games

There are statistical anomalies where an outcome keeps occurring.

But more importantly keep in mind that you're playing a game with other players who can impact that outcome of your games. The matches are most likely equally matched based on MMR it's just you're being put in with players who aren't as good.

wanted to prove a point, so I kept queing for the fuck of it and as of now 11 win streak, 6 loss streak, 1 win. il bet my left nut I lose 3 more then win 1 then lose 4+ then rinse and repeat slightly lower since ive been getting +11/12s for wins and then slapped with -16s for losses like a boss.

@MrFrusciante.2438 said:wanted to prove a point, so I kept queing for the kitten of it and as of now 11 win streak, 6 loss streak, 1 win. il bet my left nut I lose 3 more then win 1 then lose 4+ then rinse and repeat slightly lower since ive been getting +11/12s for wins and then slapped with -16s for losses like a boss.

I feel your pain man. Went to plat 1 middle. I think 1570 was my highest rating. Then slammed with a slew of bad matches.

@"Megametzler.5729" said:I do not see your point. Neither in Glicko nor in the lines Anet provided (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm) or in any official statements they said something about enforcing streaks. Of course there is volatility, but longer streaks are just chance. I - for example - never experienced anything as harsh as you described.

Also, Glicko is a very common system and has proven it's abilities. It struggles with the low population, but that is not the matchmakers fault.

I once proposed some adjustments to decrease the volatility and increase incentive to play more games than the absolut necessary part (which is possible with Glicko), but it seems there is no willingness to take further care of the matchmaker.

It struggles with low population, but also with players not playing actively. Fact is you have placement games, so people gotta play actively during a season so that everyone gets his true rating after a few days. Otherwise, you got everyone everywhere, and that's what is happening lately between silver 3 and plat 1.

I said that on the other topic, but i highly doubt of a " rigged matchmaking " , though i experience these chains too. Most of my loses are usually close scores, and several could have been won if some of my teammates actually read the chat. A rigged matchmaker cannot know he's going to team me with players who cannot read a chat obviously.

The only issue is probably the low activity and the low population, making matchs a bit too random. I'd personnaly get rid of placement games, that can be too decisive sometimes.

@"Megametzler.5729" said:I do not see your point. Neither in Glicko nor in the lines Anet provided (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm) or in any official statements they said something about enforcing streaks. Of course there is volatility, but longer streaks are just chance. I - for example - never experienced anything as harsh as you described.

Also, Glicko is a very common system and has proven it's abilities. It struggles with the low population, but that is not the matchmakers fault.

I once proposed some adjustments to decrease the volatility and increase incentive to play more games than the absolut necessary part (which is possible with Glicko), but it seems there is no willingness to take further care of the matchmaker.

found this

That's just how the algorithm is. I'm not gonna go into UBER detail right now, but essentially you're gonna go on a 10 lose streak and then turn around and go on a 10 win streak. The game is like that with how glicko works.

so which one of you is right?

from this thread

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/57308/mm-everything-allright-or-maybe-not-pls-help#latest

@"MrFrusciante.2438" said:from this thread

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/57308/mm-everything-allright-or-maybe-not-pls-help#latest

I can only recommend to read a bit about Glicke. They have som rather detailed description of what it does and what it is good for (and where it struggles).

glicko.net/glicko/glicko2.pdf

It is not that easy to read, but I still recommend it when talking seriously about the matchmaker. It is a proven system, but yes, it has downsides. It does not enforce streaks above a certain randomness - except Anet ist straight up lying to us and has not implemented the normal Glicko-2-system.

People throwing and stuff - of course - can not be really regarded apart from giving them the same points for losses as for the whole team. Glicko-2 was - for example - not designed with teams in mind, but is often used for it today. TOf course this increases randomness and volatility.

If you get lose streak - it means you reached personal skill gap.This thing is in every competitive game. LoL,Dota 2,Overwatch and so on.Players sit on same rating and looking reason in bad teammates/glicko system/hidden pull and so on, instead looking on own mistakes and only his gameplay.

@Dharma.9123 said:If you get lose streak - it means you reached personal skill gap.This thing is in every competitive game. LoL,Dota 2,Overwatch and so on.Players sit on same rating and looking reason in bad teammates/glicko system/hidden pull and so on, instead looking on own mistakes and only his gameplay.

Right now, due to the low population, it's also dependent on which players are currently online and what they main. I have no problem dominating on some days when there are lots of builds around I can deal with easily, while on other days I frequently meet comps that I can't perform as well against. On some days I feel like just doing fine in plat 1 on others I get the impression I can adequately perform at plat 3 and beyond. There is just so much the matchmaking can not take into account that has a high influence on the outcome of a match. Duo q further devalues a solo rating since players will perform differently with another one to communicate with. And ofc as always you need a bit of luck with comps and getting players on the team that can work with each other.

The best option you have when encountering a series of ill-balanced matches is simply to wait a day or at least a few hours and hope whatever part of the playerbase is online then allows for better matchups.

See people say it’s personal skill cap but this simply not true.

Both the win streaks and lose streaks are equally unsatisfying. When I’m on winnstreaks, it feels like the enemy are complete scrubs and just entered pvp. The loss streaks it’s also the same...fighting complete noobs but your team struggles with them meanwhile you could be farming them and still struggling to keep a win because your team is getting 2v4’d

There is an anomaly with the mmr. Looking at rating in matches is not enough because you have people who are plat level players with 1450 rating...and likewise have gold level players playing at 1500+

I’ve noticed that at the start of the season I’ve added players in my team and on the opposing teams that I assumed to be bad players or good players. Later in this season I see these players now 300 points away (up and down) from where I initially had games with them....300 freakin point differential

There’s absolutely an issue and it’s not being addressed because the issues are obfuscated by this idea that “probability evens out at 50/50” these games are simply not probabilistic.

I’ve gone up and down from 1400 to 1600...all the games feel the same and seem to get worse the further you go from this bell curve, where 1500 seems to be the average.

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:There’s absolutely an issue and it’s not being addressed because the issues are obfuscated by this idea that “probability evens out at 50/50” these games are simply not probabilistic.

I’ve gone up and down from 1400 to 1600...all the games feel the same and seem to get worse the further you go from this bell curve, where 1500 seems to be the average.Personally, I think the problem is that your rating gets padded after 5 minutes waiting in queue. I'm not sure if there's a +- going on with it but padding is in use to ensure a player gets a match in a timely manner. I've seen some serious deviations between players in games that they should never occur. For instance, a top 5 player was streaming and he had a 1300 rating player in his game. I didn't think the system allowed that but after I added the person to my friends list and saw their rating, I was shocked.

I'm willing to bet players will accept longer wait times for better quality games... maybe.

After a 7 win streak I had a 2 loss streak because I faced better players then went back to win 2 lose 1 pattern

@phokus.8934 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:There’s absolutely an issue and it’s not being addressed because the issues are obfuscated by this idea that “probability evens out at 50/50” these games are simply not probabilistic.

I’ve gone up and down from 1400 to 1600...all the games feel the same and seem to get worse the further you go from this bell curve, where 1500 seems to be the average.Personally, I think the problem is that your rating gets padded after 5 minutes waiting in queue. I'm not sure if there's a +- going on with it but padding is in use to ensure a player gets a match in a timely manner. I've seen some serious deviations between players in games that they should never occur. For instance, a top 5 player was streaming and he had a 1300 rating player in his game. I didn't think the system allowed that but after I added the person to my friends list and saw their rating, I was shocked.

Yes this happens. I’ve done research into the match maker that’s available on the wiki, and how it works is that there is a universal server ping that initiates a “good to go” for a game when people are in the que.

So for example, you could have an insta-que pop and still be in a padded game, because once their server finds 10 people that meet a set of criteria for a match, the server ping (which is every 30 seconds) will initiate the match. 2 of those players may have been in the que for 10 minutes because they did not meet certain match maker criteria until the 10th person ques up.

Padded games are a problem, but ultimately it’s not THE problem. The problem is that these matches begin to, over time shift the overall statistics because imagine that over the course of 3 weeks, there are a percentage of padded games (let’s say 10%) that skews the rating of players 1300’s getting carried by 1700’s, or 1600’s getting held back by 1500’s etc...) and so players that belong in very high ratings get higher, and people in low ratings go lower, and people in somewhat high ratings go lower while people in somewhat low ratings go higher.

This skews the actual ranking of players over the course of weeks and months...and because there are no hard resets, the cycle is perpetual. The mix of different skilled players get caught into the same divisions and ranking, and cause terrible terrible games...

Guys. Just stop find reason why you lose.Occam's razor - simplest is right one. And simplest - you was playing not good enough. Thats all

Mostly players just spamming que buttons after lost game and blaming stupid teammates ( 5 players in team think - other 4 is dumb. lul). STOP it plsInstead of continue playing after lose streak - try to analize your mistakes. When and what you was doing wrong.Fights you shouldnt have fought, rotations you should have done, maybe you stayed at point for too long and etc.

Competitive pvp is not just killing opponent, you know. And then you will become better

Then I stop playing ranked. Start testing other classes/builds, practicing 1v1 fight on my main class and so on.After few days returned to ranked pvp and my I feel - I am playing better (not in personal skill level, but in understanding where I have to go, and what I should do)Today result

I am pretty new to GW2. Playing about 2 months only, but this cmoon. Theories about "scripts" are in every competitive game ;DD

@"Dharma.9123" said:Guys. Just stop find reason why you lose.Occam's razor - simplest is right one. And simplest - you was playing not good enough. Thats all

Mostly players just spamming que buttons after lost game and blaming stupid teammates ( 5 players in team think - other 4 is dumb. lul). STOP it plsInstead of continue playing after lose streak - try to analize your mistakes. When and what you was doing wrong.Fights you shouldnt have fought, rotations you should have done, maybe you stayed at point for too long and etc.

Competitive pvp is not just killing opponent, you know. And then you will become better

Then I stop playing ranked. Start testing other classes/builds, practicing 1v1 fight on my main class and so on.After few days returned to ranked pvp and my I feel - I am playing better (not in personal skill level, but in understanding where I have to go, and what I should do)Today result

I am pretty new to GW2. Playing about 2 months only, but this cmoon. Theories about "scripts" are in every competitive game ;DD

With only 700 games I’d be curious to know what rating you are currently in. Learning now, the basic role of your class/build, in gold 3 would of course, only reinforce the suspicions I’ve had about mmr.

Haha it does feel that way doesn't it. I'm in the same boat, one week I celebrate my promotion to plat 3 the next I try to not get demoted to Gold. :pensive:

Can't think of someone to put the blame on though..

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"Dharma.9123" said:Guys. Just stop find reason why you lose.Occam's razor - simplest is right one. And simplest - you was playing not good enough. Thats all

Mostly players just spamming que buttons after lost game and blaming stupid teammates ( 5 players in team think - other 4 is dumb. lul). STOP it plsInstead of continue playing after lose streak - try to analize your mistakes. When and what you was doing wrong.Fights you shouldnt have fought, rotations you should have done, maybe you stayed at point for too long and etc.

Competitive pvp is not just killing opponent, you know. And then you will become better

Then I stop playing ranked. Start testing other classes/builds, practicing 1v1 fight on my main class and so on.After few days returned to ranked pvp and my I feel - I am playing better (not in personal skill level, but in understanding where I have to go, and what I should do)Today result

I am pretty new to GW2. Playing about 2 months only, but this cmoon. Theories about "scripts" are in every competitive game ;DD

Plat 1-2.Ofc if you are Plat 3+ player you will complain about team. It always will suck, just because matchmaking trying to make average raiting, and it means you will have 100- points players in your team more, then in enemy team. It calls balance

When playing dota 2 (with much more players queing in same time btw), after 7k mmr rating you will play with 5k teammates against 6k mmr team, and for win should perform not average 20%, but 30 and more. Fair enough

@Dharma.9123 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@Dharma.9123 said:Guys. Just stop find reason why you lose.Occam's razor - simplest is right one. And simplest - you was playing not good enough. Thats all

Mostly players just spamming que buttons after lost game and blaming stupid teammates ( 5 players in team think - other 4 is dumb. lul). STOP it plsInstead of continue playing after lose streak - try to analize your mistakes. When and what you was doing wrong.Fights you shouldnt have fought, rotations you should have done, maybe you stayed at point for too long and etc.

Competitive pvp is not just killing opponent, you know. And then you will become better

Then I stop playing ranked. Start testing other classes/builds, practicing 1v1 fight on my main class and so on.After few days returned to ranked pvp and my I feel - I am playing better (not in personal skill level, but in understanding where I have to go, and what I should do)Today result

I am pretty new to GW2. Playing about 2 months only, but this cmoon. Theories about "scripts" are in every competitive game ;DD

So you just recently learned how to play your class and role with only 700 games and your in plat 1-2? Which is right now the top 100-250 range?

I’m not trying to pass too much judgement based on screens...but as someone who is and has played with other players with 4000+ games over the course of ALL the seasons, but are struggling to even maintain top 250, despite being fantastic players, I think there’s something wrong with that picture, would you not agree?

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@Dharma.9123 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@Dharma.9123 said:Guys. Just stop find reason why you lose.Occam's razor - simplest is right one. And simplest - you was playing not good enough. Thats all

Mostly players just spamming que buttons after lost game and blaming stupid teammates ( 5 players in team think - other 4 is dumb. lul). STOP it plsInstead of continue playing after lose streak - try to analize your mistakes. When and what you was doing wrong.Fights you shouldnt have fought, rotations you should have done, maybe you stayed at point for too long and etc.

Competitive pvp is not just killing opponent, you know. And then you will become better

Then I stop playing ranked. Start testing other classes/builds, practicing 1v1 fight on my main class and so on.After few days returned to ranked pvp and my I feel - I am playing better (not in personal skill level, but in understanding where I have to go, and what I should do)Today result

I am pretty new to GW2. Playing about 2 months only, but this cmoon. Theories about "scripts" are in every competitive game ;DD

Okay. If you record your game and then, after watching repeat, will say fair "I didnt made any mistake and all my movements was only for win" in every lose streak game - you have rights to say about "scripted" matchmaking. Is it so?

And number of matches played do not give any benefits, if not do not draw conlusions after EVERY match.Also I am playing easiest class for spvp in game, and 700 games is +- enough to learn mechanics and make spine reflex response to enemy pixels.

I cant say about GW2, just because playing it about 2 month, but in the past I am semi-professional Dota 2 player (and I think we can compare this game, if speak about competitive gamemode) - most players will sit in 1 devision for years, with up and down win/lose streaks, just because dont making conclusions.Ofc blaming "scripts".

They even entered term - hidden pool, what means "when I win a lot games - game script will throw me in branless team" ;DIt is why reading this one is so funny

The matchmaker does purposefully put you in games it doesn't think you should win. I had gotten a streak of games where I was about 15-5, started climbing, averaging about +12/13 per win. Suddenly I started losing, most every game was -10/11. If your average even match is a +/-12, then the matchmaker is expecting you to lose matches where you lose 10/11 points. If that doesn't scream rigged I don't know what does.