Simple balance change: Increase the minimum health pool

The gap between the lowest health pool and the middle health pool is larger than that of the middle health pool and the largest health pool. Arguably, all three health pools need some reevaluation since they haven't at all kept up with the power creep over time, but that's not something I could really analyze and propose a solution to by myself.

Simply going to suggest: Increase the base health at level 80 for the minimum health pool by around 1000 health.

The gap between max health pool and middle is 3290 whereas the gap between middle health pool and minimum health pool is 4277. For the sake of fairness, those gaps should be equal.

Tier 1 stay the sameTier 2 come down 1kTier 3 come down 2k

There are more combos than that, but I get the feeling this thread will get overwhelmed by nononos

The most played and successful pvpclasses atm have a variety of health tiers so why should it change is one of the arguments

(Guard, holo, necros).....1,2,3

LoL

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Tier 1 stay the sameTier 2 come down 1kTier 3 come down 2k

There are more combos than that, but I get the feeling this thread will get overwhelmed by nononos

The most played and successful pvpclasses atm have a variety of health tiers so why should it change is one of the arguments

(Guard, holo, necros).....1,2,3

LoL

I honestly don't think its that simple. I think health tiers are fine and that they aren't the problem. But rather how its easy for each class to obtain 25 stacks of might along with other dps buffs. The entire boon system needs to be re-evaluated. For pvp anyway.

@Aza.2105 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Tier 1 stay the sameTier 2 come down 1kTier 3 come down 2k

There are more combos than that, but I get the feeling this thread will get overwhelmed by nononos

The most played and successful pvpclasses atm have a variety of health tiers so why should it change is one of the arguments

(Guard, holo, necros).....1,2,3

LoL

I would like to know how can Core or DD Thief obtain 25 stacks of Might.

@Alatar.7364 said:Bad edit.

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Tier 1 stay the sameTier 2 come down 1kTier 3 come down 2k

There are more combos than that, but I get the feeling this thread will get overwhelmed by nononos

The most played and successful pvpclasses atm have a variety of health tiers so why should it change is one of the arguments

(Guard, holo, necros).....1,2,3

LoL

I like this too, but it involves nerfing 6 classes rather than buffing 3.

@Aza.2105 said:I honestly don't think its that simple. I think health tiers are fine and that they aren't the problem. But rather how its easy for each class to obtain 25 stacks of might along with other dps buffs. The entire boon system needs to be re-evaluated. For pvp anyway.

You can approach the balance of this game from many lenses, keeping some things constant and saying they're standard, while buffing/nerfing other things. Health pools have always been that standard and have never been touched since vanilla GW2 but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be touched. Seems very arbitrary that there is a wider gap between minimum health pool and medium compared to medium vs. maximum.

I don't think health pools should constantly be adjusted as part of balance because at least some framework is needed to make meaningful balance changes, but for the sake of fairness, I think the change I suggested would be best. The minimum health pool is essentially locked out of using all of the non-vitality amulets in pvp and are forced to build a minimum of around 14k health for any kind of viable build in wvw which I don't think is very fair since medium and max health pools aren't limited quite as much.

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Tier 1 stay the sameTier 2 come down 1kTier 3 come down 2k

There are more combos than that, but I get the feeling this thread will get overwhelmed by nononos

The most played and successful pvpclasses atm have a variety of health tiers so why should it change is one of the arguments

(Guard, holo, necros).....1,2,3

LoL

No... damage is already high as is. We want larger HP pools across the board not lower..

I think large hp pools should be 21k, medium 19.5k and smal 18k

@otto.5684 said:No... damage is already high as is. We want larger HP pools across the board not lower..

I think large hp pools should be 21k, medium 19.5k and smal 18k

I think damage across the board should be nerfed. Increasing HP is NOT the way. We have enough Powercreep in this game as it is.

@Spartacus.3192 said:

@otto.5684 said:No... damage is already high as is. We want larger HP pools across the board not lower..

I think large hp pools should be 21k, medium 19.5k and smal 18k

But that is part of the issue. We went through 2 major waves of damage increase (3 trait lines then HoT) and an additional minor wave (PoF). Yet HP pools did not change since game release. This is why the current meta is called one shot, cuz you can be easily downed with near full HP in under 1 sec.

Also, what is the point of having all the amulets we currently have, if vast majority of builds must use the amulets with HP. Having higher HP pools opens up diversity significantly.

@otto.5684 said:Also, what is the point of having all the amulets we currently have, if vast majority of builds must use the amulets with HP. Having higher HP pools opens up diversity significantly.

Well i can agree with you there. Guardians for example pretty much have to use an amulet with vitality unless your name is Arken because lets face it, very few people can play guardian with 11k HP. Side note.....ANET always justified guardians have low HP pools because they had so many blocks. Then they gave unblockable skills to everyone. SMH

IMO the issue is really the power level of everyone... criting at 7-10k... conditions that do over 20k hp in a few seconds (burning/confusion/torment mainly)

@Spartacus.3192 said:

@otto.5684 said:Also, what is the point of having all the amulets we currently have, if vast majority of builds must use the amulets with HP. Having higher HP pools opens up diversity significantly.

I thought someone might bring that up as an example. Arken is very skilled, I won't deny that at all, but his build doesn't serve as an adequate example to support guard being able to run non-vitality amulets viably. That is literally the only build (maybe changing out one or two traits and changing out one utility) that works with that amulet and it wouldn't work if it didn't have healing power on it. Furthermore, I've seen Arken get taken out solo by bursty builds a few times (rev, thief, power mirage, even a condi ranger once) and while he does come out on top most of the time, he has to try really hard to do so - timing his CCs, dodges and blinds perfectly, or else he runs out of sustain in under 20 seconds. Having a low health pool means that while he can sustain and heal to full repeatedly and quickly many times, he loses value from the healing power he has (overhealing is an issue) thus he runs out of sustain very quickly when under pressure. It's a team-fighter build for sure and can hold side nodes in 1v1 but is very poor at getting kills or chasing someone at low health.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Tier 1 stay the sameTier 2 come down 1kTier 3 come down 2k

There are more combos than that, but I get the feeling this thread will get overwhelmed by nononos

The most played and successful pvpclasses atm have a variety of health tiers so why should it change is one of the arguments

(Guard, holo, necros).....1,2,3

LoL

unload, critical stikes, or stealing it.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Tier 1 stay the sameTier 2 come down 1kTier 3 come down 2k

There are more combos than that, but I get the feeling this thread will get overwhelmed by nononos

The most played and successful pvpclasses atm have a variety of health tiers so why should it change is one of the arguments

(Guard, holo, necros).....1,2,3

LoL

You can't steal Stacks of boons with Steal.CS is extremely unviable in PvP and maintains fury, not Might.Going full meme build such as P/P which is the most easily killable stuff just so you can get some might from Unload is also not an option for Thief's "easily obtainable might".

This would only make sense if classes at the lower health pools were underperforming, which except for Ele they are not. And Eles low health isn't even the reason Ele is struggling. The reason is because the way ele skills and traits are arranged the class can only go full bunker or glass cannon, both of which are sub-par in the meta.

So all this change would do is shake up the meta. 100% pointless.

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:This would only make sense if classes at the lower health pools were underperforming, which except for Ele they are not. And Eles low health isn't even the reason Ele is struggling. The reason is because the way ele skills and traits are arranged the class can only go full bunker or glass cannon, both of which are sub-par in the meta.

So all this change would do is shake up the meta. 100% pointless.

Thief definitely is underperforming. With and exception to DEs.Any S/D Thief, which is supposedly about same viabilty as D/P, is very underpowered in comparasion to literally every other profession.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Tier 1 stay the sameTier 2 come down 1kTier 3 come down 2k

There are more combos than that, but I get the feeling this thread will get overwhelmed by nononos

The most played and successful pvpclasses atm have a variety of health tiers so why should it change is one of the arguments

(Guard, holo, necros).....1,2,3

LoL

There are more ways to steal then via skill named steal. (Rs, Larcenous , BT as example) Larcenous and RS steal stacks.

CS is a source of Might via assassins fury. While you likely not get to 25 using just this supplemented with other sources you can move towards that amount. Just using TOTC as example means 6 stacks when this traited.

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Tier 1 stay the sameTier 2 come down 1kTier 3 come down 2k

There are more combos than that, but I get the feeling this thread will get overwhelmed by nononos

The most played and successful pvpclasses atm have a variety of health tiers so why should it change is one of the arguments

(Guard, holo, necros).....1,2,3

LoL

BT doesn't steal Stacks.

SA and thus RS is not viable, useful or even thinkable in any Core or DD build, and we are talking about Core and DD builds, not DE.

AF is much less viable choice than TF and taking it just so you can get 3 might every 2 seconds under the circumstances you hit critical every two seconds and that's already under circumstances that you didn't already lose your Fury, is very much not optimal. And again, CS is not useful in any Core of DD build, only staff was fun with it.

LS steals 5 different boons before it Might gets in line. LS steals two boons and the chance that the target doesn't have Swiftness, Protection, Retaliation, Resistance or Aegis (aegis likely being the reason for LS in the first place) is simply very very very low, not mentioning that it's mostly Boon spiting builds that can stack 25 Might so they are likely to have those boons on them.

None of this fits description of "easy 25 stacks". It actually doesn't even fit "easy 10stacks" not even if you take P/P.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Tier 1 stay the sameTier 2 come down 1kTier 3 come down 2k

There are more combos than that, but I get the feeling this thread will get overwhelmed by nononos

The most played and successful pvpclasses atm have a variety of health tiers so why should it change is one of the arguments

(Guard, holo, necros).....1,2,3

LoL

viable or not its possible. your question was answered.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Tier 1 stay the sameTier 2 come down 1kTier 3 come down 2k

There are more combos than that, but I get the feeling this thread will get overwhelmed by nononos

The most played and successful pvpclasses atm have a variety of health tiers so why should it change is one of the arguments

(Guard, holo, necros).....1,2,3

LoL

No, no it wasn't.None of what you mentioned will help you get even 7-10, let alone 25 stacks.You consider a wrong and untrue statement to be answer to a question?

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Tier 1 stay the sameTier 2 come down 1kTier 3 come down 2k

There are more combos than that, but I get the feeling this thread will get overwhelmed by nononos

The most played and successful pvpclasses atm have a variety of health tiers so why should it change is one of the arguments

(Guard, holo, necros).....1,2,3

LoL

lol ok.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Tier 1 stay the sameTier 2 come down 1kTier 3 come down 2k

There are more combos than that, but I get the feeling this thread will get overwhelmed by nononos

The most played and successful pvpclasses atm have a variety of health tiers so why should it change is one of the arguments

(Guard, holo, necros).....1,2,3

LoL

The only "real" way to stack 25 might is to, uh, land 3 full unloads and, uh, keep landing unloads after that because boon duration is rather short anyway.

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Tier 1 stay the sameTier 2 come down 1kTier 3 come down 2k

There are more combos than that, but I get the feeling this thread will get overwhelmed by nononos

The most played and successful pvpclasses atm have a variety of health tiers so why should it change is one of the arguments

(Guard, holo, necros).....1,2,3

LoL

its pretty easy to do in team fights.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Tier 1 stay the sameTier 2 come down 1kTier 3 come down 2k

There are more combos than that, but I get the feeling this thread will get overwhelmed by nononos

The most played and successful pvpclasses atm have a variety of health tiers so why should it change is one of the arguments

(Guard, holo, necros).....1,2,3

LoL

Not? I haven't seen this once in my gold-level games.

@otto.5684 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Tier 1 stay the sameTier 2 come down 1kTier 3 come down 2k

There are more combos than that, but I get the feeling this thread will get overwhelmed by nononos

The most played and successful pvpclasses atm have a variety of health tiers so why should it change is one of the arguments

(Guard, holo, necros).....1,2,3

LoL

18k base health for guard xD xD nice idea

The health system is fine - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.Plenty of other more pressing issues to deal with such as balance in general.