What's with those core guardians?

Hey guys,I see lot of people complaining about holo being too op right now in spvp, reaper and condi mirages too.

But what happened to core guards lately? Now every single match I play there is always a core guard in both team, and their damage feels higher than usual.Even watching streams of plat and legendary players, core guard is very present, probably even more than holo.

Did it received a serious buff or it just came back due to this power meta he belongs?

Still valkirye amulet is used? Because they feel more tough than usual to fight, very tanky with insane oneshot burst and not squishy as before.

In less than an hour, expect this thread to be flooded with core guard mains, yelling how perfectly balanced the subject is.

Because whenever there's a post, that CG's oneshot might be a little too unavoidable, if executed correctly, and that the spec is not that squishy for such an insane burst it provides... and that the whole situation with it is might be a little unfair...

Every time there's a post like this, there's instantly a dude, yelling, that "guards are ok, and they are not designed to withstand a prolonged fight, they lack sustain, and burst can be oh, so easily dodged. But look, there's a mantra Mirage and Spellbreaker..."

That is a perfect example of double standards. Because every burst in game can be dodged. And mantra Mirage doesn't have sustain, aside from 25s heal either.

I'm not saying "Core Guard is the most broken spec of them all", because boon soulbeast, holo, condi mirage, spellbreaker and others are still here.

But saying, that "it's perfectly balanced" is a lie as well.

@"Tiah.3091" said:

because boon soulbeast, holo, condi mirage, spellbreaker and others are still here.

But saying, that "it's perfectly balanced" is a lie as well.

I find every one of these builds more manageable than power shatter mirage, power shiro rev, rifle deadeye or radiant hammer guard. Haven't played much since the patch though.It might be a problem with the way I play but I think "1-shot" builds shouldn't exist in this game. Guess I need to l2p. And I used to mainly play core guard. I admit it's fun to play but it's definitely not fun to play against a good player on a build like this.

Core guardian is surely not seen over mirage, necro or holo. Also, the mainstream stream build with hammer is mediocre (which is jokingly called one shot). Most guardians now use GS.

Core GS / sword and focus is viable at all play levels. It is not ideal, but it works good enough.

If your build can deal with holo and reaper not sure why you would struggle against core guardian. It is kinda of the same thing, less CC.

@losingcontrol.1084 said:Hey guys,I see lot of people complaining about holo being too op right now in spvp, reaper and condi mirages too.

But what happened to core guards lately? Now every single match I play there is always a core guard in both team, and their damage feels higher than usual.Even watching streams of plat and legendary players, core guard is very present, probably even more than holo.

Did it received a serious buff or it just came back due to this power meta he belongs?

Still valkirye amulet is used? Because they feel more tough than usual to fight, very tanky with insane oneshot burst and not squishy as before.

Core Guard is the strongest vanilla class, viable amongst HoT an PoF metas. It is readily available to anyone who makes f2p accounts. Since expandable non-main f2p accounts are required for win trading tactics, go figure why there are so many Core Guards lately with peculiar account/character names that would seem to indicate the secret troll purposes of those accounts.

Seriously, pay attention to the names on some of these Core Guards lately. Anet should probably get around to nerfing that spec sometime soon so it isn't so easy for players to rock a meta while smurfing and/or helping buddies win trade.

I sometimes play core guard when there is more than 1 mirage on the enemy team. They counter my troll build so hard it's no fun...

If they'd just shift some burst damage to sustained DPS, it would be fine. Apart from that there are far more immediate concerns.

It's fun as fuck.

Not going to defend core guard, but they only have one true "one-hit KO" and it has a 4 second tell on it. I agree that they should be nerfed, so I'll list some ideas I like that have been suggested:

• Nerf glacial heart's (hammer trait) damage heavily. Lower the icd from 10s to 5s, make it 100% chance on critical up from 50%. This shifts the focus of the trait from burst damage to chill application allowing a hammer guard to better stay on their target. This is Vallun's idea, and a good one at that.
• Nerf the extra crit % chance that Righteous Instincts grants from 50% to either 30% or 40%. This means even less sustain from core guard if they want to maintain a high crit % chance.
• Nerf the damage of Shield of Wrath's explosion to deal around the same damage of Mighty Blow. This would be something like a 10-20% damage nerf. If they did this, I'd want the cooldown lowered as well.

@"Arcaedus.7290" said:Not going to defend core guard, but they only have one true "one-hit KO" and it has a 4 second tell on it. I agree that they should be nerfed, so I'll list some ideas I like that have been suggested:

• Nerf glacial heart's (hammer trait) damage heavily. Lower the icd from 10s to 5s, make it 100% chance on critical up from 50%. This shifts the focus of the trait from burst damage to chill application allowing a hammer guard to better stay on their target. This is Vallun's idea, and a good one at that.
• Nerf the extra crit % chance that Righteous Instincts grants from 50% to either 30% or 40%. This means even less sustain from core guard if they want to maintain a high crit % chance.
• Nerf the damage of Shield of Wrath's explosion to deal around the same damage of Mighty Blow. This would be something like a 10-20% damage nerf. If they did this, I'd want the cooldown lowered as well.

There are many things going on, that makes some of these changes impossible.

Nerf shield of wrath damage go PvP is fair game. If the even nerf it by 50% that will totally fine. Also, this reduces the hammer build centerd around a 1 shot mechanic. Also, unscathed contender is another offender supporting the 1 shot mechanic. For other reasons beside the sPvP, I would suggest removing the 20% bonus from aegis and making it attached to retaliation. It would stay 20% in PvE, but in PvP I would reduce to 5-10%. This evens out the damage and creates PvE alternatives in power builds, which after the recent DH buff almost exclusively run DH/rad/zeal.

As for reightous instinct, it is 50% by design. It is meant to allow guardian to use Valkyrie in sPvP. Reducing forces dps builds to use marauder, which is big fat nerf to both sustainability and damage, for a build that is barely meta as a bruiser build (compared to holo and reaper).

@otto.5684 said:

@"Arcaedus.7290" said:Not going to defend core guard, but they only have one true "one-hit KO" and it has a 4 second tell on it. I agree that they should be nerfed, so I'll list some ideas I like that have been suggested:

• Nerf glacial heart's (hammer trait) damage heavily. Lower the icd from 10s to 5s, make it 100% chance on critical up from 50%. This shifts the focus of the trait from burst damage to chill application allowing a hammer guard to better stay on their target. This is Vallun's idea, and a good one at that.
• Nerf the extra crit % chance that Righteous Instincts grants from 50% to either 30% or 40%. This means even less sustain from core guard if they want to maintain a high crit % chance.
• Nerf the damage of Shield of Wrath's explosion to deal around the same damage of Mighty Blow. This would be something like a 10-20% damage nerf. If they did this, I'd want the cooldown lowered as well.

DH using LB can make good use of unscathed contender, so I can't say I'd be a fan of that nerf although there aren't really many other nerfs that could be made without toppling the build entirely. Switching from Valkyrie to Marauder wouldn't really be a huge nerf to sustain, just to damage.

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Arcaedus.7290 said:Not going to defend core guard, but they only have one true "one-hit KO" and it has a 4 second tell on it. I agree that they should be nerfed, so I'll list some ideas I like that have been suggested:

• Nerf glacial heart's (hammer trait) damage heavily. Lower the icd from 10s to 5s, make it 100% chance on critical up from 50%. This shifts the focus of the trait from burst damage to chill application allowing a hammer guard to better stay on their target. This is Vallun's idea, and a good one at that.
• Nerf the extra crit % chance that Righteous Instincts grants from 50% to either 30% or 40%. This means even less sustain from core guard if they want to maintain a high crit % chance.
• Nerf the damage of Shield of Wrath's explosion to deal around the same damage of Mighty Blow. This would be something like a 10-20% damage nerf. If they did this, I'd want the cooldown lowered as well.

The unscathed contender would not be a nerf. It would be a buff in PvE and damage normalization in PvP. I much rather have a constant 5-10% damage increase over 20% increase that will have no more than 2-3 secs uptime.

I dont see how core gaurd is a real problem...yes it can imsta damage but all it takes is 1 dodge to avoid it. It a simple class to play around. Doeasnt have alot of cc or speed to keep up with other classes.. All i see it having it teleport bomb which is easy to dodge and play around.Holo on the other hand has way to much in it kit. I was watching a stream the other day of a holo and they have a leap skill on like a 3 second or less cd that insane. Combined with all there othere leaps and that class is mobility king rn next to thf with short bow i feel. + there unbelieveable amount of cc makes them S class for sure in this season i feels. And they have the ability to do 15k+ bomb ontop of a full heal(if blasted but no one ever messes that up itsto easy to blast) that on a pretty low cd it self.

@otto.5684 said:

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Arcaedus.7290 said:Not going to defend core guard, but they only have one true "one-hit KO" and it has a 4 second tell on it. I agree that they should be nerfed, so I'll list some ideas I like that have been suggested:

• Nerf glacial heart's (hammer trait) damage heavily. Lower the icd from 10s to 5s, make it 100% chance on critical up from 50%. This shifts the focus of the trait from burst damage to chill application allowing a hammer guard to better stay on their target. This is Vallun's idea, and a good one at that.
• Nerf the extra crit % chance that Righteous Instincts grants from 50% to either 30% or 40%. This means even less sustain from core guard if they want to maintain a high crit % chance.
• Nerf the damage of Shield of Wrath's explosion to deal around the same damage of Mighty Blow. This would be something like a 10-20% damage nerf. If they did this, I'd want the cooldown lowered as well.

It would be a nerf to meditrapper though which can't really make use of the radiance traitline that well. Pretty weak argument on my end, but I definitely make use of that trait when I'm trying to get in a clutch trueshot/wombo combo to turn a fight around, or surprise them from range when they got 20% hp left.

Also, if we're going to talk damage normalization in pvp, there are MUCH more egregious offenders, like soulbeast which can turn a skill that normally crits 5-7k into a 20k crit through ridiculous stacking of modifiers.

Buff dragonhunter to stop core guard

ecks dee

It's the only counter to mirage, so people play it.

ok i am not core guard always like firebrand support and damage

@phs.6089 said:It's the only counter to mirage, so people play it.

i will like to state that i rarely if ever die to 1v1 guard as condition mirage i have no problem with it because if i am bursted while not haveing any sustain thats my faultwhat i dont like is its ablity to do around 10K damage in instante from 900 range even power shatter need to close gap and go invisible in front of you (unless they are behind you) so i can see them most of time but killing any build that can oneshot from 900 in instant(i do mean instant as DE has tell and i almost always dodge it)but guard i cant i only survive as condition mirage as i have few second of window to dodge it as i have 20k hp which take a good hit to 10k hp and please do not say they DONT have sustaian I have seen guard with where little hp instantly heal full bar after i painfully lower it with conditions (because guard have lot of condition cleanse)

It's not stronger than any of the meta specs but they should all be nerfed regardless. Core guard could have some burst shaved off in favor of sustained damage. It'll still be okayish in higher tiers since better players shouldn't fall for that kind of tactic but at least people who can't dodge the combo will stop complaining.

Unscathed contender -> When you block an attack gain 10% damage increase for 5s non stackingShield of wrath -> -50% damageGlacial heart -> -50% damage

Of course these nerfs should only be implemented on conditions that

1) meta specs like holo nerfed2) no changes that will nerf DH. Especially meditations.

@Tact.8063 said:ok i am not core guard always like firebrand support and damage

@phs.6089 said:It's the only counter to mirage, so people play it.

So it's pretty much fair then B) . Which probably means it's in for a nerf when they find out it hard counters the golden child...

The other day a core guard almost downed my DE. Thats unacceptable, my class is not supposed to have counters. NERF IT!

I just wish they actually make retaliation relevant by creating alternative playstyle (soak 'n reflect like phantasmal defender etc), rather than just plain boring damage buff with retaliation.

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:I just wish they actually make retaliation relevant by creating alternative playstyle (soak 'n reflect like phantasmal defender etc), rather than just plain boring damage buff with retaliation.

The retaliation itself does not do much damage. Like 260 per hit or so. If they make retaliation deal no damage what so ever it would not matter much.

Popular ? Yeah, kinda.Problematic ? No.

@otto.5684 said:

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:I just wish they actually make retaliation relevant by creating alternative playstyle (soak 'n reflect like phantasmal defender etc), rather than just plain boring damage buff with retaliation.

That's the thing though. It used to hit 400 prior to 33% nerf years ago, and theoretically it can go up to 500-550 per hit if radiant retaliation didn't bug from the get-go. With the amount of fast hitting builds right now it'll make an interesting build let makes people think before spamming their rotations. And I highly doubt retaliation doing 400-500 hp is overpowered in current meta standard.

They broke the Rev with the swapping legend bug so I returned to Guard (but only to play DH with gs +sw/s), maybe I wasn't the only one. No idea about core, seems weaker to me.

@Krispera.5087 said:Popular ? Yeah, kinda.Problematic ? No.

Never said it was problematic in my post, but playing lot of matches and watching high rank streams I noticed there is always at least one core guard in both team, and it feels kinda tankier and more sustained than usual, that's why I asked the reason of this popularity rising.

It is probably just a good 1vs1 duelist able to compete very good with mirages, holos and warriors (probably necros too), of course can't be played as side noder able to hold 1vs2, because the sustain is just good in 1vs1 scenarios and in outnumbers you will be melted pretty fast, but still of played properly it is very rewarding being at the same time very easy to play.