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Mirage/mesmer is OP?

brappish.8715brappish.8715 Member ✭✭✭

Is Mirage/Mesmer OP or maybe people are just confused about how to fight them? I hear a lot of "it takes no skill" "its way to powerful" etc. Wondering if maybe those people just can't comprehend how to fight them, what to look for when fighting, what weaknesses there are or maybe they just are too powerful? Just curious

Overpowered.

<1345

Comments

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018

    A class is only as OP as the player playing it is capable of making it. That goes for all of them. And for some reason, 9 out 10 roaming/havoc encounters seem to not be mesmers.

    The few times I do meet mirages... I mostly kill them on my own mirage hybrid bruiser, lol. No really, there are so, so many bad mirages. A couple of days ago I met one that thought it was a great idea to backtrack the entire fight. Just walking backwards. All the time. And kitten if it didnt work, I think I failed my scepter channel twice because he was moving too slow when I charged at him lol. Of course he was hurting me about as effectivly as a tree trying to kill a dog pissing on it, but still. Luckily I was only fighting a reaper and a camp at the same time.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Julius Seizure.4985 said:
    The thing about Mesmer is that it has an extremely bloated tool kit. This becomes very obvious when you dig deeper into traits and design.

    I’ll give one simple example. Flash Spark is an Engineer toolbelt skill that provides an instant cast PBAoE blind— it has been given a 40 second recharge for balance. This type of skill is pretty powerful, as it is effectively a free dodge/miss that becomes more valuable the better you are. Using it on a key skill can completely change the course of a fight.

    Blinding Dissipation is a single Mesmer trait that turns every shatter skill into the equivalent of Flash Spark, an instant cast PBAoE blind, with recharges of 12, 25, 38, and 50 seconds. What this means is that not only can a good Mesmer use its dodges on key skills, but it almost always has the option to employ at least one PBAoE blind should they happen to be out of dodges while in melee range.

    Now, this might not seem like a lot, but at high play levels it allows a good Mesmer to further shut down key skills used by opponents, and when you add it all up this one trait effectively gives Mesmers the ability to have an instant cast blind every 6-7seconds. Or for comparison, what is valued at 40 seconds recharge for one class is given to Mesmer four times over for a single master trait and recharges of 12, 25, 38, and 50 seconds.

    The problem with Mesmer is that it has both a low skill floor, but also when you dig deeper that it has been granted far and away the highest skill ceiling.

    Wow. What a horrible comparison. Does blinding dissipation give us a lot of blinds? Yes. Is any mesmer ever going to use F3 or F4 for a blind? No, those shatters will not be used to blind someone. They are far too powerful to be used just for hte purpose of blinding someone.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • jportell.2197jportell.2197 Member ✭✭✭

    @Levetty.1279 said:
    People were complaining Mesmer was OP when PvP turned into 5 v 5 Cele eles pre HoT. They will complain that Mesmers are OP when Anet finally gives up and deletes the class.

    There's so much truth to this.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭

    I wouldn't call Mirage OP but it's a really forgiving class to play.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2018

    @brappish.8715 said:
    Is Mirage/Mesmer OP or maybe people are just confused about how to fight them? I hear a lot of "it takes no skill" "its way to powerful" etc. Wondering if maybe those people just can't comprehend how to fight them, what to look for when fighting, what weaknesses there are or maybe they just are too powerful? Just curious

    it's just noob eater as ever :

    • people who spams skills when under confusion find it op.
    • people who burst when mes is evading/mirage cloaking find it op.
    • people who can't target the mesmer under illusions find it op.
    • etc

    The main problem is casuals player who want to win easily with their teamfight exotic spec (I facepalm everytime I see a gard/fb who die to condi mesmer, come on guys...) are way more numerous than players who think about their builds pro/cons.

    Once you know how to evade burst and more generally how to play, you find the 4 mes in top 60 ratio we have now.

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Currently, for me in PvP context (not WvW unbalanced stats.), about condi mirage :
    Gards, hybrid FB, boon soulbeast win.
    Weaver, droods do long fight but cap the point at the end.
    reaper, scourge, holo lose but can decap the point before dying.
    SB, thieves, Rev do fight depending of players.
    Other specs lose.

    About direct damage builds :
    Thieves, revs, SB, holo, hybrid FB, gards, dh, rangers, soubleasts win.

    There are better duelists (fighting in node), better +1, and way better teamfighter. That's all.

  • brappish.8715brappish.8715 Member ✭✭✭

    @Julius Seizure.4985 said:
    The thing about Mesmer is that it has an extremely bloated tool kit. This becomes very obvious when you dig deeper into traits and design.

    I’ll give one simple example. Flash Spark is an Engineer toolbelt skill that provides an instant cast PBAoE blind— it has been given a 40 second recharge for balance. This type of skill is pretty powerful, as it is effectively a free dodge/miss that becomes more valuable the better you are. Using it on a key skill can completely change the course of a fight.

    Blinding Dissipation is a single Mesmer trait that turns every shatter skill into the equivalent of Flash Spark, an instant cast PBAoE blind, with recharges of 12, 25, 38, and 50 seconds. What this means is that not only can a good Mesmer use its dodges on key skills, but it almost always has the option to employ at least one PBAoE blind should they happen to be out of dodges while in melee range.

    Now, this might not seem like a lot, but at high play levels it allows a good Mesmer to further shut down key skills used by opponents, and when you add it all up this one trait effectively gives Mesmers the ability to have an instant cast blind every 6-7seconds. Or for comparison, what is valued at 40 seconds recharge for one class is given to Mesmer four times over for a single master trait and recharges of 12, 25, 38, and 50 seconds.

    The problem with Mesmer is that it has both a low skill floor, but also when you dig deeper that it has been granted far and away the highest skill ceiling.

    Using that as a blind also removes a massive part of the damage output options though. (mind wrack and cry) So you sacrifice damage for survival.

    Overpowered.

  • brappish.8715brappish.8715 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zawn.9647 said:
    yes, mirage is op

    Why?

    Overpowered.

  • Arlette.9684Arlette.9684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2018

    I'm gonna weigh in on this one:

    I do keep track of Mesmers encountered per roaming session. And I haven't played as much as I would've liked in the last 10 days as I'm relocating.
    My record in WvW, show as follows:
    3 Mirage, 2 Chrono, 0 Core Session: 3:45:06
    2 Mirage, 0 Chrono, 1 Core Session: 2:31:48
    2 Mirage, 0 Chrono, 0 Core Session: 2:47:58
    I don't count repeat encounters. The 2 Chronos were in a Guild Zerg and from what I recall were tank/buff bots.
    This is NA T 1-2 data since the last balance patch 10/02.

    To sum it up, If class saturation is indicative of performance, Mesmer is under-performing by a large margin post patch. However since Mesmer, has always been a rather unpopular class (as far as the masses are concerned), due to its unique mechanics and inherent complexity. I'd say:
    If saturation is indicative of performance, Mesmer is slightly under-performing.

    Vae Victus!
    [Hcm] Promotraitor

  • brappish.8715brappish.8715 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zawn.9647 said:

    @brappish.8715 said:

    @Zawn.9647 said:
    yes, mirage is op

    Why?

    Mirage is one of the few specs with 2 viable builds
    Power Shatter can 1shot most of your opponents - however its not that easy to pull off
    Condi Mirage can flood opponents with annoying conditions like torment (damage when moving), confusion (damage when using skill) and burning (flat damage)
    First problem: condi flood is way too frequent... it doesnt matter if you dodge the condi application or use your cleanse since they can re-apply it all in a matter of seconds

    Next its the mesmer/mirage toolkit where you have many ways of surviving or disengaging...
    Messed your 1shot as power shatter or are you losing your fight as condi? No problem, you can:

    • Blink
    • Portal
    • Dodge+Sword1 (ambush skill) to do a huge leap forward

    Can't disengage at the moment? No problem, you can:

    • Sword 2 to get invul
    • F4 to get invul
    • Dodge WHILE STUNNED - so no matter if you messed up and got stunned in the middle of the fight, just dodge the burst while you still stunned

    Also for newer players there's even the illusion spam problem where you target the mesmer, suddenly +3 mesmer appear on your screen/minimap, you need to find out the real one again, only for them to use a skill that shuffles the illusions and makes opponents lose target...

    The biggest issue is that mesmer is strong in every aspect of the game... Be it damage, survival, disengage, mobility... They don't have 1-2 strong things going for them, they have everything.

    Necros can Condi flood as well... but they can't disengage or use multiple invuls
    Thief can disengage pretty nice but they're doomed if opponents time their stuns
    etc...

    well, that's MY feeling towards mirage in general - others may or may not agree :P

    This is why people find them OP, they're weaknesses are just less obvious lol. All that stuff you mentioned is super true. Mesmer is a great class (just like every class) but mesmer has weaknesses that just aren't as obvious. Those disadvantages (just like advantages are arguable) for condi mesmers are things like range. Furthermore, any mirage with an axe as the main hand is easily susceptible to heavy CCs (warrior), other condis/aoe condi (scourge), Heavy burst damage (dead eye) etc. Really I think its just a matter of playing a waiting game with them. Most mirages/mesmers are so quick to try and burst down a target. Wait it out, defend your self, then counter and give high pressure. Stay on target, look for icons on the mesmers health bar ( buffs, food, and utilities, etc).

    Also, people are forgetting things like if a mesmer uses :
    Blink
    Portal
    Then they're literally sacrificing other viable options that make them more offensively powerful. (any mantras, gap closers or condi utility buffs, Invisibility)

    90% of mesmers that play the one-shot burst (including my self lol) Are frequently waiting to sucker punch you and will use 4-5 abilities at once making us pretty much in the fight or flight mode depending on your health bar. When I fail to one shot someone, if I am positioned wrong, I need to run and gain space and wait for cooldowns or cleave. There's nothing after that. Im pretty squishy also, i can get one shotted by dead eyes almost every time, spell breakers can drain half my health with one shot, Burn guardians mutilate me, necros I've figured out, but i pretty much can't stand anywhere close to them ( especially spvp capping points), they'll win the condi battle almost always...easy to beat on greatsword though, engis are tough and Ive been having a hell of a time with thes revs.

    Its just all about knowing your opponent. You aren't wrong tho, mesmer in the right hands is absolutely powerful...but not overpowered. You can easily pick up mesmer, but you cant just master it. You'll get outplayed every time.

    all in all, i fight mesmers just like everyone else, i dont find them any more annoying then any other class.

    Overpowered.

  • I consider myself a decent mesmer player in WvW and i have fought many other classes and players, Some players of the higher/lower and similar rank demonstrate great skill in keeping me targeted even after coming out of stealth and will even win the battle.

    Other players i have fought of higher/lower and similar rank i can totally outplay and it's like they fought a mesmer for the very first time, These i believe are the ones who will flock to the forums asking for the mesmer to be nerfed. Mirage isn't OP it's just that SOME people just don't know how to fight them or don't bother to learn the mechanics.

  • duillyn.2697duillyn.2697 Member ✭✭
    edited October 11, 2018

    The dodge exists outside of the combat systems 'rules', and sure it's super strong and interesting but it's pretty un-fun to play against. Op or not I think it's fair players can post asking about nerfs when stuff like that exists.

    (plat wvw pvp mirage main)

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zawn.9647 said:
    Power Shatter can 1shot most of your opponents - however its not that easy to pull off

    This however has become a very poor argument for anything. Pretty much all classes can "1shot" players nowadays. Its hard to come up with one that cant.

    I mean just the other day someone posted that clip of a norn ranger in WvW stealthing, taking raven shape and bam 35k damage lol on a dd.

  • FaboBabo.3581FaboBabo.3581 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2018

    double post

    Mirage since Day 1 - It got better!

  • FaboBabo.3581FaboBabo.3581 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2018

    There was a lot of tuning down allready with changing the ammount of confusion one can put out. Most Condi Mirages take Dueling + Illusions i think, which means they got no sustained healing from inspi for example. If you can find the vunerable spot u can drastically hurt the mirage.

    Illu/inspi mirage has lower confu stacks ( which is the main damage of mirage for sure) - so you gotta hit your full axe 3 f2 combo to kill someone.

    I gotta admit that illu/duelling confu output is probably a little high /or too frequent.

    I love confusion and i need it on my mesmer, but there should be a little room for my enemys.
    You'd probably need to nerf the synergy between ineptitude and blinding, so can still blind your enemy, but only inflict confu if you really interrupt your enemy.
    Increases the skill needed of applying high/permanent stacks of confusion.

    I miss Mistrust ... ):

    Mirage since Day 1 - It got better!

  • Oh for heavens sake its bad enough that us power mesmers have had confounding suggestions nerfed, I get the OP is just asking for opinions but posts like this are the reason why anet goes around nerfing stuff randomly instead of targeting the problem which seems to be condi mirage.....

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @jportell.2197 said:
    Biggest thing people have a problem with against mirage is the detargeting. But I'll give people a little hint.

    If the mesmer drops target and didn't stealth, 9/10 times for me retargetting happens in less than a second with tab targeting. You don't actually have to try that hard to find the real mesmer.

    Mirage gave mesmer the ability to finally mess with the opponents mind because now the Dodge animation for mesmer is different than other classes.

    Mirage is still nothing in the grand scheme of things when compared to

    -firebrands
    -spell breakers
    -holosmith
    -reapers

    Not sure about the other ones but power mesmer can one shot a reaper. U can watch it on short's channel.

    Also scourge and necro in general. There's a game where he basically one shots them over and over and over. Lol

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Zawn.9647 said:
    Power Shatter can 1shot most of your opponents - however its not that easy to pull off

    This however has become a very poor argument for anything. Pretty much all classes can "1shot" players nowadays. Its hard to come up with one that cant.

    I mean just the other day someone posted that clip of a norn ranger in WvW stealthing, taking raven shape and bam 35k damage lol on a dd.

    I think people are mostly annoyed that mes can do it from stealth.

    It also has the ability to make mutiple clones,teleport, evade and stealth. If u dedicate every thing to one shot. U shld die if you fail. But for mes u don't have to.

    It's also why people are annoyed about deadeye. It can stealth and redo it with out being punished.

  • jportell.2197jportell.2197 Member ✭✭✭

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Zawn.9647 said:
    Power Shatter can 1shot most of your opponents - however its not that easy to pull off

    This however has become a very poor argument for anything. Pretty much all classes can "1shot" players nowadays. Its hard to come up with one that cant.

    I mean just the other day someone posted that clip of a norn ranger in WvW stealthing, taking raven shape and bam 35k damage lol on a dd.

    I think people are mostly annoyed that mes can do it from stealth.

    It also has the ability to make mutiple clones,teleport, evade and stealth. If u dedicate every thing to one shot. U shld die if you fail. But for mes u don't have to.

    It's also why people are annoyed about deadeye. It can stealth and redo it with out being punished.

    The mes one shot build is the power mantra. Its skill bar is two mantras, and blink. If it one shots from stealth it can't go back into stealth after as the build has only one source of stealth the teleport is on a 30s CD. So the only disengsge it really has is mirage thrust.

  • jportell.2197jportell.2197 Member ✭✭✭

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @jportell.2197 said:
    Biggest thing people have a problem with against mirage is the detargeting. But I'll give people a little hint.

    If the mesmer drops target and didn't stealth, 9/10 times for me retargetting happens in less than a second with tab targeting. You don't actually have to try that hard to find the real mesmer.

    Mirage gave mesmer the ability to finally mess with the opponents mind because now the Dodge animation for mesmer is different than other classes.

    Mirage is still nothing in the grand scheme of things when compared to

    -firebrands
    -spell breakers
    -holosmith
    -reapers

    Not sure about the other ones but power mesmer can one shot a reaper. U can watch it on short's channel.

    Also scourge and necro in general. There's a game where he basically one shots them over and over and over. Lol

    I said in the grand scheme of things. As in team fights. Reaper brings way more to team fights than most mesmer builds. Which is fine. However you have builds that are great team fighters and great side node builds.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Zawn.9647 said:
    Power Shatter can 1shot most of your opponents - however its not that easy to pull off

    This however has become a very poor argument for anything. Pretty much all classes can "1shot" players nowadays. Its hard to come up with one that cant.

    I mean just the other day someone posted that clip of a norn ranger in WvW stealthing, taking raven shape and bam 35k damage lol on a dd.

    I think people are mostly annoyed that mes can do it from stealth.

    It also has the ability to make mutiple clones,teleport, evade and stealth. If u dedicate every thing to one shot. U shld die if you fail. But for mes u don't have to.

    It's also why people are annoyed about deadeye. It can stealth and redo it with out being punished.

    The mes one shot build is the power mantra. Its skill bar is two mantras, and blink. If it one shots from stealth it can't go back into stealth after as the build has only one source of stealth the teleport is on a 30s CD. So the only disengsge it really has is mirage thrust.

    Even if u fail your one shot. They are at half hp. Your auto attack on power gs is 3k 5k and 7k. You also have mutiple clones ur opponent has to tab through. That shld be enough time for you to finish them off.

    Either way. I am not too bothered by it any more. I basically use my thief and have the passive instant reflexes going specifically go mesmer hunting.

    Pressing 4 buttons very quick n some one dies is not the definition of fun for every one else. Same can be said for other builds.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2018

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @jportell.2197 said:
    Biggest thing people have a problem with against mirage is the detargeting. But I'll give people a little hint.

    If the mesmer drops target and didn't stealth, 9/10 times for me retargetting happens in less than a second with tab targeting. You don't actually have to try that hard to find the real mesmer.

    Mirage gave mesmer the ability to finally mess with the opponents mind because now the Dodge animation for mesmer is different than other classes.

    Mirage is still nothing in the grand scheme of things when compared to

    -firebrands
    -spell breakers
    -holosmith
    -reapers

    Not sure about the other ones but power mesmer can one shot a reaper. U can watch it on short's channel.

    Also scourge and necro in general. There's a game where he basically one shots them over and over and over. Lol

    I said in the grand scheme of things. As in team fights. Reaper brings way more to team fights than most mesmer builds. Which is fine. However you have builds that are great team fighters and great side node builds.

    Shld it? Firebrand and reaper is fixed to a team fight. Thief is fixed to only decapping. But mesmer can do both. One shotting some one instantly in mid fight is a massive deal. It ensures u basically get mid. After your one shot you can basically stand around ur clones n auto attack n still do massive dmg.

    I do get that if u r found u r dead. Nowadays it's condi mes every where. Which is another issue..

  • Noha.3749Noha.3749 Member ✭✭✭

    Powermesmer = not broken, but strong all around
    Condimesmer = not broken, but too easy to do well with little effort against avrage players.

    Condimirage is the "standard" mesmerbuild people complain about. You can build alot of defense and have alot of low CD active defense along with good def traits and still deal great amounts of damage.. While also being "hard" for bad players to target.

    Its not easier to play than most ranger, warrior or guardian builds though, its just that the "common" player isnt good in PvP and cant handle clones along with the blocks, and keeps running around/throwing abilities around with confusion/torment on them before cleansing.

    I hear more people complaining about holosmith than Condimirage though, but i cant understand that. Its easier to fight a holosmith by timing your dodges than a condimirage. I guess that is because on a "node" in sPvP the holo can deal better AoE damage and AoE CC than the condimirage.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Personally I just hate the frequency at which they can do their combos mixed with me never having played the class myself. It would probably help me understand it better, but I dislike the entire class so I can't be bothered.

    Plus anything that can stealth is automatically twice as annoying.

    Logging out forever.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    Either way. I am not too bothered by it any more. I basically use my thief and have the passive instant reflexes going specifically go mesmer hunting.

    Which is how the game works.

    My hybrid mesmer cant oneshot people, have no stun mantra and has problems dealing with other power sustain builds (been in 3m 1v1s vs warriors lol), but in turn its specifically designed to eat frontloaded gank roamers such as oneshot mesmers, thieves, etc while also having the cleanse to deal with condi bombs from condi mesmers, necros etc.

  • If this game wasn't so reliant on tab targeting, mesmers and thieves wouldn't be so much of a problem to deal with.

  • @TorQ.7041 said:
    Even if u fail your one shot. They are at half hp. Your auto attack on power gs is 3k 5k and 7k.

    L2p is only way for you . GS AUTO DOES 3-5-7k DAMAGE YEEEEEEEE BOIIIIIIIIS , get the hell out of here with your bs and never come back

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    Shld it? Firebrand and reaper is fixed to a team fight. Thief is fixed to only decapping. But mesmer can do both.

    kitten ?! are you comparing firebrand and reaper teamfight ability to mesmer ? really ?

    The mes one shot build is the power mantra.

    4k mantra + 3-6k mb + 8 k shatter one shot is only on builds with 0 defensive ability, 0 sustain auto-proc, 0 dodge up, even on a reaper with the cs nerf it's hard to talk about one shot.

    Powermesmer = not broken, but strong all around
    Condimesmer = not broken, but too easy to do well with little effort against avrage players.

    Powermesmer = +1 role, while other +1 are better to pressure.
    Condimesmer = slighty better than powermes to fight on node.
    And we are not talking about efforts but efficiency.

    Your auto attack on power gs is 3k 5k and 7k.

    Ambush != auto-attack and with equal stat, equal weapon, mes auto are bad compared to other class auto.

  • @Zawn.9647 said:

    @brappish.8715 said:

    @Zawn.9647 said:
    yes, mirage is op

    Why?

    Mirage is one of the few specs with 2 viable builds
    Power Shatter can 1shot most of your opponents - however its not that easy to pull off
    Condi Mirage can flood opponents with annoying conditions like torment (damage when moving), confusion (damage when using skill) and burning (flat damage)
    First problem: condi flood is way too frequent... it doesnt matter if you dodge the condi application or use your cleanse since they can re-apply it all in a matter of seconds

    Next its the mesmer/mirage toolkit where you have many ways of surviving or disengaging...
    Messed your 1shot as power shatter or are you losing your fight as condi? No problem, you can:

    • Blink
    • Portal
    • Dodge+Sword1 (ambush skill) to do a huge leap forward

    Can't disengage at the moment? No problem, you can:

    • Sword 2 to get invul
    • F4 to get invul
    • Dodge WHILE STUNNED - so no matter if you messed up and got stunned in the middle of the fight, just dodge the burst while you still stunned

    Also for newer players there's even the illusion spam problem where you target the mesmer, suddenly +3 mesmer appear on your screen/minimap, you need to find out the real one again, only for them to use a skill that shuffles the illusions and makes opponents lose target...

    The biggest issue is that mesmer is strong in every aspect of the game... Be it damage, survival, disengage, mobility... They don't have 1-2 strong things going for them, they have everything.

    Necros can condi flood as well... but they can't disengage or use multiple invuls
    Thief can disengage pretty nice but they're doomed if opponents time their stuns
    etc...

    well, that's MY feeling towards mirage in general - others may or may not agree :P

    Pretty much nailed this....

  • FaboBabo.3581FaboBabo.3581 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Gotta say the only Thing which is currently broken on mirage is the dodge while stuned part.
    I love that part and it beeing core, and i will probably loose 10-15% more duels if they ever remove this, but in theory it needs to go.

    At the same time i would not change the EM to do something similar. Mirage is elusive enough. EM can grant boons and maybe remove the condition still.
    Im hoping a LOT for a Might source withing the EM, since right now i lack Might when not on GS. Phantasmal Force won't really help Mirages, while it's pretty good on Chrono ( i guess? ). Not looking for 25 Stacks here , but something arround 8-12 Might would be sweet.

    Mirage since Day 1 - It got better!

  • MikeL.8260MikeL.8260 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2018

    As far as PvP is concerned yes, Mirage is op in low to mid tier divisions(bronze - gold3/plat1) and slightly above average in high tiers (high plat2+).

    Definitely op in any sort of PvE.

  • Arlette.9684Arlette.9684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2018

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Apparently is op until someone plays it.
    Yesterday I was watching a stream, I never watch these but a friend told me the streamer had insides concerning incoming nerfs.
    The streamer rolled a mirage, got into a pvp match while exclaming even a monkey could play mirage.
    Match over, 5 deaths 2 kills.

    AMEN!
    Most people forget, STREAMERS STREAM FOR MONEY! There's a boatload of average players that stream and put on a show, and talk all kinds of smack (for a quick buck), cuz that's what appeals to their Under17 audience. I'd recommend players on this forum take everything streamers say or do with a grain of salt. It's just business for them, WWE anyone?

    Vae Victus!
    [Hcm] Promotraitor

  • If anything, Anet really needs to rethink stealth mechanics and reevaluate it's impact on class that can be both tanky and disengage easily at the same time. In other words, it's low risk high reward class.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2018

    @Vasdamas Anklast.1607 said:
    If anything, Anet really needs to rethink stealth mechanics and reevaluate it's impact on class that can be both tanky and disengage easily at the same time. In other words, it's low risk high reward class.

    The stealth bit I agree with.
    I'm an apologist of removing stealth from game entirely but that won't happen.

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Conclusion are :

    • Even with 0 damage output, mesmer are op.
    • Even if they are less usefull in a role, mesmers are op.

    Until Mes is a clone itself regarding damage and HP, the qq won't stop.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Vasdamas Anklast.1607 said:
    If anything, Anet really needs to rethink stealth mechanics and reevaluate it's impact on class that can be both tanky and disengage easily at the same time. In other words, it's low risk high reward class.

    The stealth bit I agree with.
    I'm an apologist of removing stealth from game entirely but that won't happen.

    Its kind of funny... I used to run with NO stealth on my roaming mesmer, but then Anet nerfed offhand sword so I was forced back to using the torch. Anet want mesmers to stealth, clearly.

  • When a class is being viewed as OP by the vast majority of the community. It's OP..That's just the way it is. Mesmer mains generally will be biased, so it's not really fair.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭

    Whats the point of asking if Mesmer is OP in the Mesmer Forum? Ask it in the PvP Forum if you want usefull answers.

  • Carighan.6758Carighan.6758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd argue for 1v1 combat, Mirage is indeed overpowered.

    The main issue however, to me, is less our individual power, but two issues which are game-wide and just happen to meet on this character:

    • First, conditions as a whole need a serious look. They should be far far far less frequent, but in return more potent. Getting afflicted with say, Torment, should make you consider standing still, for a single stack. Because it'd be lethal if you move. However if you say cleanse it, you won't see it again for a while. In turn, if something you applied gets cleansed, you know the cleanse won't be back soon, either.
    • Second, balancing a MMORPG for 1v1 is a laughable prospect. And I mean this. It's entirely utopian, and anyone who expects it should genuinely - to avoid future disappointment - seek the door. You won't find happiness because that's not how class-based games work. Period. However on a more serious note, at least it should be balanced for something else then, say mass-combat. DAoC made that work, and WvW is clearly inspired by RvR while missing all the parts which actually made it work (Darkness Falls, slow sieges, relics as motivation for PvE players to defend, sparse class setups to enforce meshing, etc). Could it be balanced for, say, 20v20? Sure. Though for real balance you need to plan for sides to be as large or larger than the effective number of player classes, which should be ~20-30 in GW2 once you include all frequently used specs.
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