Deaths Judgment — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Deaths Judgment

icecreamsupernova.8956icecreamsupernova.8956 Member ✭✭
edited September 27, 2017 in WvW

I'm just going to leave this here, no bloodlust stacks the guy had just been downed and no vulnerability on me. I have 3.2k armor. Thats a 17k hit...
https://ibb.co/h64dB5

<13456

Comments

  • Making an awful lot of assertions there considering you don't know the situation, you seem mildy salty about the condi meta though. Yes there are other imbalances, well spotted, that's not what this was about. 17k on a high armor target with no stacks, means it is hitting much harder on softer targets.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 27, 2017

    I can assure you that this was not done in a fight that lasted less than 20 seconds, and a Thief cannot stay stealthed that long and retain enough initiative to make that shot. Unless he was using Shadow Refuge - which no experienced Thief uses in a player v player environment. You seem mildly salty about a skill with the single most easily dodged tell in the game, though.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Well pretty sure he was stealthed and it was within 20 secs that he got ressed by team mates. Not particularly salty , despite his "skill" and me being outnumbered still didnt get me. Its the average armor players getting hit for 20k + and pretty much one shotted that would make me salty considering Anet said it wouldnt be a one shot class. But hey whatever, i'm yet to be killed by one, most just seem really bad.

  • There so bad you took time to make a post over it mk. On a side note id love to duel that DE That shot deff had some good prep work in it. Think my biggest so far is 12k on a gaurd while my guildy distracted him =/

  • Took longer then expected for a thief complain thread. It's perfectly fine for every class to have some over tuned stuff but when a thief can only do is solo/very limited grp play as they can't join zerg fights or even team fights because deadeye is still a non supportive role, that's not allowed some how or people just hate it for what ever reason, same old rubbish with dash and pi trait lol.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2017

    At least the thief needs to set up, even if it means waiting for the right time, cele necros can just change weapon and proc all sorts of nasty condis. Also Necro is not the only class that has to take a precise dodge, all do including enemy thives. If everyone played every other class for a few months doubt anyone would be complaining about theres sort of kills

  • Stebene.9275Stebene.9275 Member ✭✭
    edited September 28, 2017

    All true, the thing is that setting up the shot just requires a little bit of patience and maybe timing while running a negligible risk because your opponent can spam stuff all they want, actually killing the DE is unlikely because they could be anywhere in a 1500 radius. And I'm not wanting to defend necros here, I hate them. The thing is that this one dodge should not be the one deciding factor if you live or die because it puts DE at a too high advantage. IMO it would make more sense to lower the baseline dmg of death's judgement a little bit but also reduce initiative cost by the same percentage, maybe even more. That way it would make death's judgement have the same damage per initiative but give people at least a chance to fight back if they miss their dodge. I could see being the initiative cost being halfed and damage being cut back by, say 30-35%%, would give DE better damage per initiative in total but would at the same time require them to stay stationary for a longer time and therefore give the opponent a chance to counterattack and as a result create less incentive to run full glass in order to be able to oneshot people. And even then you could run full glass and still oneshot a lot of players because not everyone has as much toughness and life as a necro running celestial (just as an example).

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2017

    A few things to note, first off I don't play Deadeye since it is pretty bad in almost every situation and should have been a completely different ES.

    DJ requires Thieves to be almost completely immobile.
    It has a semi long Cast time, 3/4 second
    It Self Reveals at the start of the Cast
    It has a large Tell of a Dark red laser
    It takes over 10-14 seconds to full set up Mark if attacking, 20-28 if camping Stealth(which shows above the targets head and at their feet
    It's costs almost half of the the Maximum Initiative pool

    It's not like the damage is coming out of Stealth and like there are zero tells or setup time on a class being near immobile to even use

    There is a lot of counterplay to it as well look at the above list on top of it being a projectile, that is relatively slow travel speed.

    Can it get large numbers? Yeah can other classes pull off over 20k hits? Yeah

    And now with the Desync bug finally being fixed it is a lot easier to now to kill Deadeyes.

    Plus Anet already had to nerf another Deadeye skill because no one was using Death's Judgement what does that say about how good Death's Judgement is lol.

  • Stebene.9275Stebene.9275 Member ✭✭
    edited September 28, 2017

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    A few things to note, first off I don't play Deadeye since it is pretty bad in almost every situation and should have been a completely different ES.

    DJ requires Thieves to be almost completely immobile.
    It has a semi long Cast time, 3/4 second
    It Self Reveals at the start of the Cast
    It has a large Tell of a Dark red laser
    It takes over 10-14 seconds to full set up Mark if attacking, 20-28 if camping Stealth(which shows above the targets head and at their feet
    It's costs almost half of the the Maximum Initiative pool

    It's not like the damage is coming out of Stealth and like there are zero tells or setup time on a class being near immobile to even use

    There is a lot of counterplay to it as well look at the above list on top of it being a projectile, that is relatively slow travel speed.

    Can it get large numbers? Yeah can other classes pull off over 20k hits? Yeah

    And now with the Desync bug finally being fixed it is a lot easier to now to kill Deadeyes.

    Plus Anet already had to nerf another Deadeye skill because no one was using Death's Judgement what does that say about how good Death's Judgement is lol.

    All of these points are true and quite frankly, you're right. Once you learn to pay attention to the tell and dodge accordingly, DEs can't do anything anymore. However, there are situations where you just don't have enough stamina for a dodge anymore or any reflects at hand and if that is the case you're dead.

    Can other classes deal insane numbers? Yes but it's a lot harder for them to set it up. While it's true that it takes quite some time to get full malice, the DE is pretty much safe the entire time because he has so much access to stealth that the chances of finding and killing him in a 1500 radius (the range of death's judgement) are extremely slim. And if the DE keeps his distance, no one will close the gap in the time it takes the DE to take the shot, get out of kneel and use shadow meld to remove the revealed effect at which point he can just disengage and wait to start again, it's not like DEs are THAT slow, if they're running SA with hidden thief they get a 50% speed bonus while in stealth and as I stated earlier, they have plenty access to stealth if they pick the right traits and utilities.

    In the end it just comes down to one thing: Do you pay attention to the tell and dodge, or do you not have the means to avoid the attack and get killed. And this shouldn't be. It's bad for the the DEs opponent because the majority of players quite often don't pay enough attention for a small moment and get punished for that too hard. And it's also bad for DE players, because they won't be able to kill anyone who knows how to counter it because they just don't have anything to throw in. Sure, good players won't be bothered with that, after all they win, but in my opinion a fight should always be a two-way street where the outcome depends on the skill of both sides not just on dodging death's judgement by one person.

    Pretty much all of top tier players say it's garbage because it is so predictable but for the average joe it's just a nightmarish trolling build.

  • Predictable .. maybe in a clear 1vs1 situation .. if not @ such sit. -which is mostly the case in wvw i think- this is simply too much and should be adjusted somehow.
    Unfortunately Anet usualy starts looking @ those things if there is something wrong with it @ PvE :(
    At least hopefully there will be less cheese thiefs fleeing fights if low because they´re already far enough away from me O.o

  • trolololo.jpg.html

    Though i try the reflect. Didnt see the shot.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2017

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Good on that Thief. That took a long time for him to set up, in which you had plenty of time to condi-spam him down, taking advantage of his incredibly limited condi clear. And if he happened to stealth away, and you just stayed in the area with that large mark over your head, then somehow managed to not dodge after seeing the incredibly vibrant and telling laserbeam then...someone fell prey to a player with more skill or experience.

    Death's Judgement isn't a problem. However, shall we take a look at Trail of Anguish and how it pretty much deletes melee assaults at the mere press of a button and (walking forward)?

    I dont exactly care about this damage since ive been hit for 16k aswell but i think its fun how this now gets defended when i remember a time people crying about killshot/gunflame doing 15k while also needing to setup with adren gaining before able to hit.Then all of our piercing got removed and damage severely nerfed.But hey its a thief..so need to setup and wait 10 sec..and squishy. and insert random argument here.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Good on that Thief. That took a long time for him to set up, in which you had plenty of time to condi-spam him down, taking advantage of his incredibly limited condi clear. And if he happened to stealth away, and you just stayed in the area with that large mark over your head, then somehow managed to not dodge after seeing the incredibly vibrant and telling laserbeam then...someone fell prey to a player with more skill or experience.

    Death's Judgement isn't a problem. However, shall we take a look at Trail of Anguish and how it pretty much deletes melee assaults at the mere press of a button and (walking forward)?

    I dont exactly care about this damage since ive been hit for 16k aswell but i think its fun how this now gets defended when i remember a time people crying about killshot/gunflame doing 15k while also needing to setup with adren gaining before able to hit.Then all of our piercing got removed and damage severely nerfed.But hey its a thief..so need to setup and wait 10 sec..and squishy. and insert random argument here.

    Killshot/gunflame used Signet of Fury. It did not require any setup whatsoever. Thanks for your input, though.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • One thief used Haste trait with DJ. How Haste affects that?

  • When we fight in random 5 vs 5 or like that, it goes bad if DE comes to snipe with DJ. Because my mesmer gets oneshotted by DJ, it becomes 1v1 with DE. Had to ignore the rest of the fight to try stay alive.

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2017

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Good on that Thief. That took a long time for him to set up, in which you had plenty of time to condi-spam him down, taking advantage of his incredibly limited condi clear. And if he happened to stealth away, and you just stayed in the area with that large mark over your head, then somehow managed to not dodge after seeing the incredibly vibrant and telling laserbeam then...someone fell prey to a player with more skill or experience.

    Death's Judgement isn't a problem. However, shall we take a look at Trail of Anguish and how it pretty much deletes melee assaults at the mere press of a button and (walking forward)?

    I dont exactly care about this damage since ive been hit for 16k aswell but i think its fun how this now gets defended when i remember a time people crying about killshot/gunflame doing 15k while also needing to setup with adren gaining before able to hit.Then all of our piercing got removed and damage severely nerfed.But hey its a thief..so need to setup and wait 10 sec..and squishy. and insert random argument here.

    Killshot/gunflame used Signet of Fury. It did not require any setup whatsoever. Thanks for your input, though.

    By that logic thief uses traited rifle 5 or shadows meld...boom no setup required.

    Check your class bias lol

  • yea at least 15sec to get max stack of 5 or 7. I donno about ppl complaining about Deadeye b/c I all I hear from my guildmate is how much dmg they do with Firebrain(Firebrand) 1 skill does like over 1 million dmg blah blah blah.

  • VaaCrow.3076VaaCrow.3076 Member ✭✭✭

    Right, nerf thread, if you nerf this on thief, please take away reaper runes, and necros being able to boon corrupt. ty.

    Madness Rises [Rise] Of Gunnar's Hold, represent.

  • Zephyra.4709Zephyra.4709 Member ✭✭✭

    I think it's still early in the x-pac's launch to be calling for nerfs. Did you try and get LoS so he would likely get obstructed when shooting Death's Judgement? Even saving an evade/block/reflect would've been valuable.

    I'm pretty sure there is a trait that grants dmg modifiers regarding the number of malice stacks a DE has. Take into consideration food buffs, sigils, full zerk, scholar runes etc that is essentially a one trick pony build and he's likely to be downed just as quick with such little HP. Make sure you throw condi AoEs at your feet and/or have fleshwurm tele to a safe spot... I'm no necro main but it helps to have an escape 'oh no' button at hand.

    I personally took a 17.6k+ Death's Judgement to the face in PvP last night (which makes me wonder how much harder it would hit in WvW with stuff like food etc) I shouldn't have dismissed the thief I visually saw drop an SR after F1'ing me nor ignored that large time frame in which possibly bettering my preparedness.

  • @Zephyra.4709 said:
    I'm pretty sure there is a trait that grants dmg modifiers regarding the number of malice stacks a DE has.

    DE does 3% damage more per malice stack on marked target and DJ has an additional 15% par malice stack.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @katniss.6735 said:
    ...there's literally no tell or anything to prepare you for this broken mechanic.

    ...the target needs to have a reaction window, where there currently is none.

    What? DJ has the single most easily spotted tell in the game right now. By far. This skill reveals the user upon activation, not completion. On top of that, an incredibly large and incredibly visible laser-beam shows you exactly where the revealed thief is firing from. Please practice using your dodge key.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Cirrion.8951Cirrion.8951 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arcaedus.7290 said:
    One-hit KOs are bad for competitive videogames, period. If you look at DJ in a vacuum, it seems like an okay skill but a good Deadeye can make it work and can make it hurt. I had a series of duels just the other day against a deadeye. He spammed auto to build malice. Used stealth and standing rifle 4 to keep his distance. Once malice was full, he popped quickness and used DJ twice in a row. I (barely) dodged the first, hit by the second, 10k damage (3.3k armor and had protection boon on). Making deadeye otherwise complete trash does not justify having a skill that can 1-shot people. It doesn't matter if there is build up or not, this skill hits too hard.

    So he one shot you.... after shooting you a bunch of times. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

  • Cirrion.8951Cirrion.8951 Member ✭✭✭

    @katniss.6735 said:
    There hasn't been a single time where death's judgement hasn't 1 shot me. It's gunflame from stealth. What a stellar idea. Bravo, anet. Thieves really needed this. When this happens to me I just open the map to click waypoint because there's literally no tell or anything to prepare you for this broken mechanic. 1500 range, less than a second cast time, from stealth. 1500 range means you aren't taking any damage from anything. You can take damage while in stealth, but that range with stealth makes you a God.

    I fair nerf would be that it not do the top damage at the first hit. That is what is making it impossible. I realize it's based on malice stacks, but that has no bearing in this situation since the target needs to have a reaction window, where there currently is none.

    As others have noted, there is a very prominent visual clue that the DJ is incoming. Not to mention that for those big hits you also have to be marked for some time for the malice to stack; you should know that you're a target. If you're ignoring the mark and the giant red laser beam tell from the DJ then it's a L2P issue. Situational awareness is important in competitive play.

  • katniss.6735katniss.6735 Member ✭✭✭

    I guess you guys don't know how to play your thieves, because a thief can be right beside you and fire this without anything to show up as you're describing. You see the thief too late in this situation. I was rezzing someone when I was insta'd. The 1500 range one is easy to get away with, too, because it can just be another skill firing toward you amongst the other million people attacking your team. The damage is extremely high.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2017

    @katniss.6735 said:
    I guess you guys don't know how to play your thieves, because a thief can be right beside you and fire this without anything to show up as you're describing. You see the thief too late in this situation. I was rezzing someone when I was insta'd. The 1500 range one is easy to get away with, too, because it can just be another skill firing toward you amongst the other million people attacking your team. The damage is extremely high.

    Again you can't remove the Tells they are always there and you are revealed as soo as you activate the skill, before the Animation even begins, and the Muzzle of the Rifle has. Unique Tell outside of the Obvious laser, let's not forget the giant bullseye covering the person that's going to be targeted by the Thief lol. It's like some people don't know how to recognize/look at their screen.

    Inb4 the lag excuses.

    I don't even play Deadeye, I have stuck with my Power Herald and Daredevil since they are so much more versatile and smooth to play. Deadeye was cute during Beta weekend but so so bad.

  • @Cirrion.8951 said:

    @Arcaedus.7290 said:
    One-hit KOs are bad for competitive videogames, period. If you look at DJ in a vacuum, it seems like an okay skill but a good Deadeye can make it work and can make it hurt. I had a series of duels just the other day against a deadeye. He spammed auto to build malice. Used stealth and standing rifle 4 to keep his distance. Once malice was full, he popped quickness and used DJ twice in a row. I (barely) dodged the first, hit by the second, 10k damage (3.3k armor and had protection boon on). Making deadeye otherwise complete trash does not justify having a skill that can 1-shot people. It doesn't matter if there is build up or not, this skill hits too hard.

    So he one shot you.... after shooting you a bunch of times. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    i don't even think 10k is that bad and seems fine for a high risk skill (supposedly highly visible, although In a group fight its easy to miss for me atleast) on a mid/low armor target, I'm perfectly used to gunflame, CoR, even the odd 10k + Arc Divider. However some people are being hit for 17 -20k plus at long range, is that really what this game has become? and the excuses of well they are a bad pvp class compared to Daredevil or Vanilla so we just accept it makes no sense to me.

  • jaif.3518jaif.3518 Member ✭✭✭

    Play a thief - it's way too much work setting up that one shot. You have to find the right target, too.

    Mobile deadeye is the way to go.

    -Jeff

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2017

    @katniss.6735 said:
    I guess you guys don't know how to play your thieves, because a thief can be right beside you and fire this without anything to show up as you're describing. You see the thief too late in this situation. I was rezzing someone when I was insta'd. The 1500 range one is easy to get away with, too, because it can just be another skill firing toward you amongst the other million people attacking your team. The damage is extremely high.

    I suspect the majority of players haven't come across thieves who actually know how to pull this off. Ran across it myself earlier today. I had just come out of stealth roughly 5 seconds before his shot. He had gotten malice stacks off some ambient creature and there wasn't any tell for it.

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2017

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @katniss.6735 said:
    I guess you guys don't know how to play your thieves, because a thief can be right beside you and fire this without anything to show up as you're describing. You see the thief too late in this situation. I was rezzing someone when I was insta'd. The 1500 range one is easy to get away with, too, because it can just be another skill firing toward you amongst the other million people attacking your team. The damage is extremely high.

    I suspect the majority of players haven't come across thieves who actually know how to pull this off. Ran across it myself earlier today. I had just come out of stealth roughly 5 seconds before his shot. He had gotten malice stacks off some ambient creature and there wasn't any tell for it.

    Malice only stacks against the "marked " target. Once you change the target to another the malice resets to zero.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2017

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @katniss.6735 said:
    I guess you guys don't know how to play your thieves, because a thief can be right beside you and fire this without anything to show up as you're describing. You see the thief too late in this situation. I was rezzing someone when I was insta'd. The 1500 range one is easy to get away with, too, because it can just be another skill firing toward you amongst the other million people attacking your team. The damage is extremely high.

    I suspect the majority of players haven't come across thieves who actually know how to pull this off. Ran across it myself earlier today. I had just come out of stealth roughly 5 seconds before his shot. He had gotten malice stacks off some ambient creature and there wasn't any tell for it.

    Malice only stacks against the "marked " target. Once you change the target to another the malice resets to zero.

    Do you mean it resets when you change your mark? That's not what I meant. You can mark an ambient creature and get malice stacks then hit another target without changing the mark. Works even if you mark a wall as a target.

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The bonus damage from malice is ONLY supposed to be against the target that is marked. BUT, I have heard players saying that they can stack malice on ambient mobs, not change their mark, and still get the bonus damage against the first player that happens to run by.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • Strages.2950Strages.2950 Member ✭✭✭

    I have a question, is there a way to trait for that skill to shoot twice without cooldown or something?
    I was at North Camp just now and got hit with it twice in around ~1 second. (Notice the single regen tick)

    woah.jpg

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strages.2950 said:
    I have a question, is there a way to trait for that skill to shoot twice without cooldown or something?
    I was at North Camp just now and got hit with it twice in around ~1 second. (Notice the single regen tick)

    woah.jpg

    The skill has no CD, it's a thief
    They can shoot two back to back before needing to move because they are out of ini

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2017

    @Ubi.4136 said:
    The bonus damage from malice is ONLY supposed to be against the target that is marked. BUT, I have heard players saying that they can stack malice on ambient mobs, not change their mark, and still get the bonus damage against the first player that happens to run by.

    Yes, it seems bugged to me. AFAIK it only works with Deaths Judgement. Pretty sure it isn't intended that a wall can be marked to build malice stacks with either. This reminds me of necros being able to use Epidemic off an oil pot in the past.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strages.2950 said:
    I have a question, is there a way to trait for that skill to shoot twice without cooldown or something?
    I was at North Camp just now and got hit with it twice in around ~1 second. (Notice the single regen tick)

    woah.jpg

    Yep, that's the same player and same location a few of us came across him at. LOL.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Ubi.4136 said:
    The bonus damage from malice is ONLY supposed to be against the target that is marked. BUT, I have heard players saying that they can stack malice on ambient mobs, not change their mark, and still get the bonus damage against the first player that happens to run by.

    Yes, it seems bugged to me. AFAIK it only works with Deaths Judgement. Pretty sure it isn't intended that a wall can be marked to build malice stacks with either. This reminds me of necros being able to use Epidemic off an oil pot in the past.

    Ah well that explains the times I've seen the mark go ping and then less than a second later get hit for 25-30K damage.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Cirrion.8951Cirrion.8951 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Ubi.4136 said:
    The bonus damage from malice is ONLY supposed to be against the target that is marked. BUT, I have heard players saying that they can stack malice on ambient mobs, not change their mark, and still get the bonus damage against the first player that happens to run by.

    Yes, it seems bugged to me. AFAIK it only works with Deaths Judgement. Pretty sure it isn't intended that a wall can be marked to build malice stacks with either. This reminds me of necros being able to use Epidemic off an oil pot in the past.

    Ah well that explains the times I've seen the mark go ping and then less than a second later get hit for 25-30K damage.

    No really. If the DE has built up malice against an ambient or a wall they'd lose it as soon as they mark you. In order to use this trick they have to not mark you. Marking you would reset their malice.

  • Flarre.4850Flarre.4850 Member ✭✭
    edited October 1, 2017

    @Cirrion.8951 said:
    No really. If the DE has built up malice against an ambient or a wall they'd lose it as soon as they mark you. In order to use this trick they have to not mark you. Marking you would reset their malice.

    Why mark him if your are full of malICE with an ambiant creature or wall?
    The DE damage modifier work with malice so you don't have to care about who is marked.

  • Alehin.3746Alehin.3746 Member ✭✭✭

    trailblazer necro
    would probably kill that zerker/marauder DE in seconds if got next to him
    complaining about 17k damage that needs more than 20s setup (~850 damage per second)

    This is glorious. hahahaha

  • @Alehin.3746 said:

    trailblazer necro
    would probably kill that zerker/marauder DE in seconds if got next to him
    complaining about 17k damage that needs more than 20s setup (~850 damage per second)

    This is glorious. hahahaha

    I am atrocious on thief and even I can beat a trailblazer necro easily with a bit of kiting. Sure if you just stand there you are gonna get condi bombed in a few seconds. I am not saying that condi damage isnt broken because it is, but thats a seperate issue. Other people on here are getting hit for 20k+

  • Alehin.3746Alehin.3746 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2017

    @icecreamsupernova.8956 said:
    I am atrocious on thief and even I can beat a trailblazer necro easily with a bit of kiting.

    The same way any "atrocious" trailblazer necro player could kill anyone with the right setup. i'm sorry dude but i dont see how a class fully geared to do damage (11khp and 1k toughness) should be doing less damage than that with a skill that takes ~20s to "charge up".

    I am not saying that condi damage isnt broken because it is, but thats a seperate issue.

    DE's damage is not an issue. By the time DE have enough malice stacks to do that, you can find cover or even kill them if you have enough mobility. DJ can be blocked, dodged, miss if they're blind and you can even get out of range if you have enough mobility, because they have to be kneeling when casting it. I'm pretty sure you had plenty of time/tools to deal with it, but you just didnt know how.

    Next time, try using Sand Swell and CPC against them. Or dont get off tag, that works too. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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