Deaths Judgment

I'm just going to leave this here, no bloodlust stacks the guy had just been downed and no vulnerability on me. I have 3.2k armor. Thats a 17k hit...https://ibb.co/h64dB5

Good on that Thief. That took a long time for him to set up, in which you had plenty of time to condi-spam him down, taking advantage of his incredibly limited condi clear. And if he happened to stealth away, and you just stayed in the area with that large mark over your head, then somehow managed to not dodge after seeing the incredibly vibrant and telling laserbeam then...someone fell prey to a player with more skill or experience.

Death's Judgement isn't a problem. However, shall we take a look at Trail of Anguish and how it pretty much deletes melee assaults at the mere press of a button and (walking forward)?

Making an awful lot of assertions there considering you don't know the situation, you seem mildy salty about the condi meta though. Yes there are other imbalances, well spotted, that's not what this was about. 17k on a high armor target with no stacks, means it is hitting much harder on softer targets.

I can assure you that this was not done in a fight that lasted less than 20 seconds, and a Thief cannot stay stealthed that long and retain enough initiative to make that shot. Unless he was using Shadow Refuge - which no experienced Thief uses in a player v player environment. You seem mildly salty about a skill with the single most easily dodged tell in the game, though.

Well pretty sure he was stealthed and it was within 20 secs that he got ressed by team mates. Not particularly salty , despite his "skill" and me being outnumbered still didnt get me. Its the average armor players getting hit for 20k + and pretty much one shotted that would make me salty considering Anet said it wouldnt be a one shot class. But hey whatever, i'm yet to be killed by one, most just seem really bad.

There so bad you took time to make a post over it mk. On a side note id love to duel that DE That shot deff had some good prep work in it. Think my biggest so far is 12k on a gaurd while my guildy distracted him =/

Took longer then expected for a thief complain thread. It's perfectly fine for every class to have some over tuned stuff but when a thief can only do is solo/very limited grp play as they can't join zerg fights or even team fights because deadeye is still a non supportive role, that's not allowed some how or people just hate it for what ever reason, same old rubbish with dash and pi trait lol.

@Turk.5460 said:I can assure you that this was not done in a fight that lasted less than 20 seconds, and a Thief cannot stay stealthed that long and retain enough initiative to make that shot. Unless he was using Shadow Refuge - which no experienced Thief uses in a player v player environment. You seem mildly salty about a skill with the single most easily dodged tell in the game, though.

Actually DE can. If you take shadow arts, mark + hidden thief will grant you 3s of stealth, blinding powder, shadow gust and hide in shadows each another 4s, sniper's cover 2x4s again, same as shadow meld. That's a total of 3 + 7 x 4 = 31 seconds of stealth, not counting in a reset of cooldowns during that time. The only ability costing initiative there is sniper's cover for a total of 6 initiative, which are restored after 6 seconds. Sure, running shadow arts over crit strikes/deadly arts/trickery is a damage loss but it's enough time to keep your initiative up and get your malice stacks. If the thief was also running full zerker with scholar runes and damage buff food/utilities, there is a realistic chance the DE could've done that shot without ever leaving stealth.

Though I have to admit, once you get marked you pretty much have to prepare for being sniped and dodge death's judgement but it still is kinda dumb that the DE is pretty much safe the entire time while necro has to take a precise dodge during a 3/4s window. Not saying it's OP, I can see where this is getting frustrating but it's also pretty much the only thing DE can do in WvW.

At least the thief needs to set up, even if it means waiting for the right time, cele necros can just change weapon and proc all sorts of nasty condis. Also Necro is not the only class that has to take a precise dodge, all do including enemy thives. If everyone played every other class for a few months doubt anyone would be complaining about theres sort of kills

All true, the thing is that setting up the shot just requires a little bit of patience and maybe timing while running a negligible risk because your opponent can spam stuff all they want, actually killing the DE is unlikely because they could be anywhere in a 1500 radius. And I'm not wanting to defend necros here, I hate them. The thing is that this one dodge should not be the one deciding factor if you live or die because it puts DE at a too high advantage. IMO it would make more sense to lower the baseline dmg of death's judgement a little bit but also reduce initiative cost by the same percentage, maybe even more. That way it would make death's judgement have the same damage per initiative but give people at least a chance to fight back if they miss their dodge. I could see being the initiative cost being halfed and damage being cut back by, say 30-35%%, would give DE better damage per initiative in total but would at the same time require them to stay stationary for a longer time and therefore give the opponent a chance to counterattack and as a result create less incentive to run full glass in order to be able to oneshot people. And even then you could run full glass and still oneshot a lot of players because not everyone has as much toughness and life as a necro running celestial (just as an example).

To those saying it took the thief a very long time to build malice for this to happen, that hit would have been about 14.5k damage without any malice, then followed up with another 14.5k a couple seconds later.

I'm not sure why this seems ok, or fun, to you.

You're probably only taking 5 stacks of malice and the plain damage bonus they provide into account. However, death's judgement gets another 15% per malice stacks, totaling the skill based damage bonus to a factor of 2.05 with another general 21% damage bonus. Assuming the DE had 7 stacks (maleficent seven), that would come done to 17,356 / 2.05 * 0.79 which is roughly about 6,8k, that is of course assuming that the bonus is multiplicative which it probably is since the 15% per malice is skill based. Still a large number but not for a skill that takes 6 initiative, especially if you have nothing else to come up with after that.

However it's true, a single shot should not be able to down you. Just to put it into perspective, a full marauder warrior has 2271 armor and 25542 HP. In that case the shot would've done 24983 damage, still almost one-shotting the class with the highest innate defense and gear suitable for roaming. Now imagine how much defensive gear you'd have to take as ele if you wanted to survive that.

A few things to note, first off I don't play Deadeye since it is pretty bad in almost every situation and should have been a completely different ES.

DJ requires Thieves to be almost completely immobile.It has a semi long Cast time, 3/4 secondIt Self Reveals at the start of the CastIt has a large Tell of a Dark red laserIt takes over 10-14 seconds to full set up Mark if attacking, 20-28 if camping Stealth(which shows above the targets head and at their feetIt's costs almost half of the the Maximum Initiative pool

It's not like the damage is coming out of Stealth and like there are zero tells or setup time on a class being near immobile to even use

There is a lot of counterplay to it as well look at the above list on top of it being a projectile, that is relatively slow travel speed.

Can it get large numbers? Yeah can other classes pull off over 20k hits? Yeah

And now with the Desync bug finally being fixed it is a lot easier to now to kill Deadeyes.

Plus Anet already had to nerf another Deadeye skill because no one was using Death's Judgement what does that say about how good Death's Judgement is lol.

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:A few things to note, first off I don't play Deadeye since it is pretty bad in almost every situation and should have been a completely different ES.

DJ requires Thieves to be almost completely immobile.It has a semi long Cast time, 3/4 secondIt Self Reveals at the start of the CastIt has a large Tell of a Dark red laserIt takes over 10-14 seconds to full set up Mark if attacking, 20-28 if camping Stealth(which shows above the targets head and at their feetIt's costs almost half of the the Maximum Initiative pool

It's not like the damage is coming out of Stealth and like there are zero tells or setup time on a class being near immobile to even use

There is a lot of counterplay to it as well look at the above list on top of it being a projectile, that is relatively slow travel speed.

Can it get large numbers? Yeah can other classes pull off over 20k hits? Yeah

And now with the Desync bug finally being fixed it is a lot easier to now to kill Deadeyes.

Plus Anet already had to nerf another Deadeye skill because no one was using Death's Judgement what does that say about how good Death's Judgement is lol.

All of these points are true and quite frankly, you're right. Once you learn to pay attention to the tell and dodge accordingly, DEs can't do anything anymore. However, there are situations where you just don't have enough stamina for a dodge anymore or any reflects at hand and if that is the case you're dead.

Can other classes deal insane numbers? Yes but it's a lot harder for them to set it up. While it's true that it takes quite some time to get full malice, the DE is pretty much safe the entire time because he has so much access to stealth that the chances of finding and killing him in a 1500 radius (the range of death's judgement) are extremely slim. And if the DE keeps his distance, no one will close the gap in the time it takes the DE to take the shot, get out of kneel and use shadow meld to remove the revealed effect at which point he can just disengage and wait to start again, it's not like DEs are THAT slow, if they're running SA with hidden thief they get a 50% speed bonus while in stealth and as I stated earlier, they have plenty access to stealth if they pick the right traits and utilities.

In the end it just comes down to one thing: Do you pay attention to the tell and dodge, or do you not have the means to avoid the attack and get killed. And this shouldn't be. It's bad for the the DEs opponent because the majority of players quite often don't pay enough attention for a small moment and get punished for that too hard. And it's also bad for DE players, because they won't be able to kill anyone who knows how to counter it because they just don't have anything to throw in. Sure, good players won't be bothered with that, after all they win, but in my opinion a fight should always be a two-way street where the outcome depends on the skill of both sides not just on dodging death's judgement by one person.

Pretty much all of top tier players say it's garbage because it is so predictable but for the average joe it's just a nightmarish trolling build.

Predictable .. maybe in a clear 1vs1 situation .. if not @ such sit. -which is mostly the case in wvw i think- this is simply too much and should be adjusted somehow.Unfortunately Anet usualy starts looking @ those things if there is something wrong with it @ PvE :(At least hopefully there will be less cheese thiefs fleeing fights if low because they´re already far enough away from me O.o

Though i try the reflect. Didnt see the shot.

@Turk.5460 said:Good on that Thief. That took a long time for him to set up, in which you had plenty of time to condi-spam him down, taking advantage of his incredibly limited condi clear. And if he happened to stealth away, and you just stayed in the area with that large mark over your head, then somehow managed to not dodge after seeing the incredibly vibrant and telling laserbeam then...someone fell prey to a player with more skill or experience.

Death's Judgement isn't a problem. However, shall we take a look at Trail of Anguish and how it pretty much deletes melee assaults at the mere press of a button and (walking forward)?

I dont exactly care about this damage since ive been hit for 16k aswell but i think its fun how this now gets defended when i remember a time people crying about killshot/gunflame doing 15k while also needing to setup with adren gaining before able to hit.Then all of our piercing got removed and damage severely nerfed.But hey its a thief..so need to setup and wait 10 sec..and squishy. and insert random argument here.

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Turk.5460 said:Good on that Thief. That took a long time for him to set up, in which you had plenty of time to condi-spam him down, taking advantage of his incredibly limited condi clear. And if he happened to stealth away, and you just stayed in the area with that large mark over your head, then somehow managed to not dodge after seeing the incredibly vibrant and telling laserbeam then...someone fell prey to a player with more skill or experience.

Death's Judgement isn't a problem. However, shall we take a look at Trail of Anguish and how it pretty much deletes melee assaults at the mere press of a button and (walking forward)?

Killshot/gunflame used Signet of Fury. It did not require any setup whatsoever. Thanks for your input, though.

One thief used Haste trait with DJ. How Haste affects that?

One-hit KOs are bad for competitive videogames, period. If you look at DJ in a vacuum, it seems like an okay skill but a good Deadeye can make it work and can make it hurt. I had a series of duels just the other day against a deadeye. He spammed auto to build malice. Used stealth and standing rifle 4 to keep his distance. Once malice was full, he popped quickness and used DJ twice in a row. I (barely) dodged the first, hit by the second, 10k damage (3.3k armor and had protection boon on). Making deadeye otherwise complete trash does not justify having a skill that can 1-shot people. It doesn't matter if there is build up or not, this skill hits too hard.

When we fight in random 5 vs 5 or like that, it goes bad if DE comes to snipe with DJ. Because my mesmer gets oneshotted by DJ, it becomes 1v1 with DE. Had to ignore the rest of the fight to try stay alive.

@Turk.5460 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Turk.5460 said:Good on that Thief. That took a long time for him to set up, in which you had plenty of time to condi-spam him down, taking advantage of his incredibly limited condi clear. And if he happened to stealth away, and you just stayed in the area with that large mark over your head, then somehow managed to not dodge after seeing the incredibly vibrant and telling laserbeam then...someone fell prey to a player with more skill or experience.

Death's Judgement isn't a problem. However, shall we take a look at Trail of Anguish and how it pretty much deletes melee assaults at the mere press of a button and (walking forward)?

By that logic thief uses traited rifle 5 or shadows meld...boom no setup required.

Check your class bias lol

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Turk.5460 said:Good on that Thief. That took a long time for him to set up, in which you had plenty of time to condi-spam him down, taking advantage of his incredibly limited condi clear. And if he happened to stealth away, and you just stayed in the area with that large mark over your head, then somehow managed to not dodge after seeing the incredibly vibrant and telling laserbeam then...someone fell prey to a player with more skill or experience.

Death's Judgement isn't a problem. However, shall we take a look at Trail of Anguish and how it pretty much deletes melee assaults at the mere press of a button and (walking forward)?

Uhm that does nothing and doesn't make Death's Judgement hit for those high numbers, what makes those High Numbers are the Malice Stacks which takes time to max out, Max Lead Attacks stacks etc.. which is setup..

I hate Rifle and the Deadeye Spec and realize it takes a lot of setup to get those large numbers.

Also Death's Judgement self Reveals before any damage is applied so...

yea at least 15sec to get max stack of 5 or 7. I donno about ppl complaining about Deadeye b/c I all I hear from my guildmate is how much dmg they do with Firebrain(Firebrand) 1 skill does like over 1 million dmg blah blah blah.

Right, nerf thread, if you nerf this on thief, please take away reaper runes, and necros being able to boon corrupt. ty.