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[Suggestion] Getting rid of a few problems


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Recipe: Vision of Luck1 Bloodstone Brick1 Empyrial Star1 Dragonite Ingot250 Essence of Luck (exotic)

At every Mystic Forge, there will be an option to enter a solo-instance of the Mistwright Gambit entrance area. In this the player will be able to use Zomorros as a vendor:

Tab 1 - Lucky Coins1 Vision of Luck + 50 Globs of Ectoplasm + 250 Eyes of Kormir + 1 Gold = 1 Lucky Coin1 Vision of Luck + 50 Globs of Ectoplasm + 250 Congealed Putrescene + 1 Gold = 1 Lucky Coin1 Vision of Luck + 50 Globs of Ectoplasm + 10 Pile of Auric Dust + 1 Gold = 1 Lucky Coin1 Vision of Luck + 50 Globs of Ectoplasm + 10 Ley Line Sparks + 1 Gold = 1 Lucky Coin... etc.Note: Lucky Coins are a currency.

Tab 2 - Superior Runescheap rune = 5 Lucky Coinsvaluable rune = 10 Lucky Coinsprecious rune = 15 Lucky CoinsNote: Which rune classifies with which rarity is up to ANet. To unlock a rune in this vendor, the player has to obtain one piece with the regular method. Each rune you get with this exchange is Account Bound.

Tab 3 - Superior Sigilscheap sigil = 5 Lucky Coinsvaluable sigil = 10 Lucky Coinsprecious sigil = 15 Lucky CoinsNote: Which rune classifies with which rarity is up to ANet. To unlock a rune in this vendor, the player has to obtain one piece with the regular method. Each sigil you get with this exchange is Account Bound.

Tab 4 - Skinscheap skin = 50 Lucky Coinsvaluable skin = 100 Lucky Coinsprecious skin = 200 Lucky CoinsNote: This can be use for extremely rare skins which are no longer obtainable in the game, like the Chainsaw GS skin. Each skin you get with this exchange is Account Bound.

Tab 5 - Novelties & Minischeap = 50 Lucky Coinsvaluable = 100 Lucky Coinsprecious = 200 Lucky CoinsNote: This can be used for extremely rare minis, the selfless/thoughtless potion. Every Novelty/Mini, even if it is not yet bound to your wardrobe/account, is Account Bound.

Tab 6 - Materialscheap = 2 Lucky Coinsvaluable = 5 Lucky Coinsprecious = 10 Lucky CoinsNote: This can be used to purchase extremely rare materials which are quite tedious to farm or impossible to obtain at the moment. The assault cores for the Spinal Blades come in mind. Fractal materials can also be an option as well as Supreme Runes of Holding.

Tab 7 - Currencies1 Magnetide Shard = 10 Lucky Coins1 Gaeting Crystal = 10 Lucky Coins10 Dungeon Currency = 1 Lucky Coin25 LS3 Currency = 1 Lucky Coin25 LS4 Currency = 1 Lucky Coin25 Fractal Relics = 1 Lucky Coin1 Pristine Fractal Relic = 1 Lucky CoinNote: Can be expanded with PvP/WvWvW currencies. In that case, there should be an option to use those currencies to obtain Lucky Coins at Tab 1.

Advantages:

  • giving some ascended materials and trash-materials a new purpose
  • increasing the price of Globs of Ectoplasm
  • alternative ways to access extremely rare or locked content-items
  • alternative to bypass raiding/fractals/PvP/WvWvW

Disadvantages:

  • annoying the raid-community
  • annoying a few ingame stock-brokers
  • another currency in the pool
  • bending/breaking a few of ANet's own rules

Honestly I doubt it will come that way. All of my previous ideas/plans had at least one major mistake. I probably forgot something very important again, what makes my entire thread completely hilarious. I still give it a try though, changes need errors.

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You do realize than most (if not all) of the items you list are FAR CHEAPER on the trading post than through the system you suggest ? So, how is that an advantage and how does it solve anything ?

Also, if you wanna bypass raids, it would be much cheaper to buy your raid kills on LFG than use your lucky coins AND it would reward additional non negligeable things like LIs and LDs, which your system doesnt give.

In other words, a big no.

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Disadvantages:

  • complex system is hard to balance
  • more accountbound instances of usually non-bound items means more data capacity required (and ever since the discussions around the material storage expansion we know that data capacity is a non-trivial subject, as it'll impact both the servers ANet needs and the dataflow to/from each client)
  • giving incentive to farming is contrary to what ANet has tried to do with the game so far (diminishing returns of all kinds so that the advantage farmers/grinders have are often negligible to those playing just for fun/less hours)
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@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:Recipe: Vision of Luck1 Bloodstone Brick1 Empyrial Star1 Dragonite Ingot250 Essence of Luck (exotic)

At every Mystic Forge, there will be an option to enter a solo-instance of the Mistwright Gambit entrance area. In this the player will be able to use Zomorros as a vendor:

Tab 1 - Lucky Coins1 Vision of Luck + 50 Globs of Ectoplasm + 250 Eyes of Kormir + 1 Gold = 1 Lucky Coin1 Vision of Luck + 50 Globs of Ectoplasm + 250 Congealed Putrescene + 1 Gold = 1 Lucky Coin1 Vision of Luck + 50 Globs of Ectoplasm + 10 Pile of Auric Dust + 1 Gold = 1 Lucky Coin1 Vision of Luck + 50 Globs of Ectoplasm + 10 Ley Line Sparks + 1 Gold = 1 Lucky Coin... etc.Note: Lucky Coins are a currency.

Tab 2 - Superior Runescheap rune = 5 Lucky Coinsvaluable rune = 10 Lucky Coinsprecious rune = 15 Lucky CoinsNote: Which rune classifies with which rarity is up to ANet. To unlock a rune in this vendor, the player has to obtain one piece with the regular method. Each rune you get with this exchange is Account Bound.

Tab 3 - Superior Sigilscheap sigil = 5 Lucky Coinsvaluable sigil = 10 Lucky Coinsprecious sigil = 15 Lucky CoinsNote: Which rune classifies with which rarity is up to ANet. To unlock a rune in this vendor, the player has to obtain one piece with the regular method. Each sigil you get with this exchange is Account Bound.

Tab 4 - Skinscheap skin = 50 Lucky Coinsvaluable skin = 100 Lucky Coinsprecious skin = 200 Lucky CoinsNote: This can be use for extremely rare skins which are no longer obtainable in the game, like the Chainsaw GS skin. Each skin you get with this exchange is Account Bound.

Tab 5 - Novelties & Minischeap = 50 Lucky Coinsvaluable = 100 Lucky Coinsprecious = 200 Lucky CoinsNote: This can be used for extremely rare minis, the selfless/thoughtless potion. Every Novelty/Mini, even if it is not yet bound to your wardrobe/account, is Account Bound.

Tab 6 - Materialscheap = 2 Lucky Coinsvaluable = 5 Lucky Coinsprecious = 10 Lucky CoinsNote: This can be used to purchase extremely rare materials which are quite tedious to farm or impossible to obtain at the moment. The assault cores for the Spinal Blades come in mind. Fractal materials can also be an option as well as Supreme Runes of Holding.

Tab 7 - Currencies1 Magnetide Shard = 10 Lucky Coins1 Gaeting Crystal = 10 Lucky Coins10 Dungeon Currency = 1 Lucky Coin25 LS3 Currency = 1 Lucky Coin25 LS4 Currency = 1 Lucky Coin25 Fractal Relics = 1 Lucky Coin1 Pristine Fractal Relic = 1 Lucky CoinNote: Can be expanded with PvP/WvWvW currencies. In that case, there should be an option to use those currencies to obtain Lucky Coins at Tab 1.

Advantages:

  • giving some ascended materials and trash-materials a new purpose
  • increasing the price of Globs of Ectoplasm
  • alternative ways to access extremely rare or locked content-items
  • alternative to bypass raiding/fractals/PvP/WvWvW

Disadvantages:

  • annoying the raid-community
  • annoying a few ingame stock-brokers
  • another currency in the pool
  • bending/breaking a few of ANet's own rules

Honestly I doubt it will come that way. All of my previous ideas/plans had at least one major mistake. I probably forgot something very important again, what makes my entire thread completely hilarious. I still give it a try though, changes need errors.

Add raid currency to be harder for other wise its no point like a rare mat to prevent it to be more.conveniant something with long time instead of effort

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On top of the issues already raised a lot of the items you suggest as rewards are only available from specific areas of the game, and for good reason. No matter what we say gamers are far less likely to complete something if there isn't a reward they want, so those items provide an incentive to complete the content. If they were available simply by farming materials players would be a lot less likely to do that.

Unless of course the cost was as high as you propose. Although I guess some of that comes from not having played the content and not knowing what the currency/material is worth. For example my first training raid we killed 2 bosses and I got 63 Magnetite Shards, but that's not enough to buy anything from the vendor. If this system was put in place they should be priced in-line with the LS3 & 4 currencies, not 250 times more expensive - that's massively over estimating how hard they are to get.

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You didn't do any kind of research before suggesting those values right? You can buy Glob of Ectoplasm for 15 silver on the TP.Your "precious rune" requires 50*15=750 (!!!) globs plus some other materials, this brings the total to 112g 50s (!!!) just for one rune.The most expensive superior rune in the game is Superior Rune of Exuberance and you can buy it for less than 5g, while the vast majority of runes is under 3g

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I went to the rewards to find problems, but there are problems in your Lucky Coin acquisition too. To get 1 lucky coin you need 1 of each of the refined Ascended materials. I'm guessing you don't know, hence your prices, but to refine one of those you need 10 Thermocatalytic Reagents, you pay 15s to the merchant to get 10 of these. To refine all three Ascended materials you need 30 Reagents, which means 45s for each Lucky Coin (excluding the value of the Globs of Ectoplasm). This means, without adding the value of the other materials, on VENDOR materials alone you need 6g 75s to buy a precious rune, which is above the 5g required for the most expensive superior rune.

A precious mini for 200 coins... equals 90g for the Reagents alone, and about 1500 gold in Globs of Ectoplasm. Excluding the two highest value minis (that go for 8k+) the rest of them don't go above 400g, with the average price of expensive/rare minis around 100g. And you are asking for 1590 gold.

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The idea behind this was to give a couple of outdated, formerly valuable, materials a secondary purpose. On the other hand, I thought people should get something valuable in return. It would be always a long way around, compared to the original acquisition. But it would be an alternative in the long term, if the player has some problems using the regular method.

I am sorry for the confusion, but this is only a model-view. The values on the sheet stand in relation to each other, but they are in most cases ridiculously high. I was afraid of using only variables (A-Z), as it would have made the entire thing look like a high-school math lesson. So I picked a couple of numbers, which easily show how the system works and where the relations can be drawn. I made sure to outscale them for three reasons:1.) People realize the numbers are ridiculously high and asume it to be model-view.2.) Not insulting/offending any certain playergroup (competitive, raid, pve) by judging how much worth their efforts are.3.) And as a result of 2.) preventing this topic from turning into another controversial raid-discussion.

As far as I am aware of, the developers do not use our calculated values and copy-paste them into the game. Simply because we lack the background-knowledge. We can only assume what could be according to our primitive tools and our experience from the gameplay. So every fixed value we post on this board as some sort of suggestion/wish/dream will probably never appear in the game at all.

I made the system quite open, so you can easily add multiplication-factors and play with it. At the first Tab you can just add a multiplication-factor the Lucky Coins themselves. Let us say X = 5, means you get 5 coins for one Vision of Luck. I wanted the system to be easily adjusted.


@Ardid.7203 said:Suggestion to give context first.Just did that. Sorry for the delay.

@Rasimir.6239 said:Disadvantages:

  • complex system is hard to balance
  • more accountbound instances of usually non-bound items means more data capacity required (and ever since the discussions around the material storage expansion we know that data capacity is a non-trivial subject, as it'll impact both the servers ANet needs and the dataflow to/from each client)
  • giving incentive to farming is contrary to what ANet has tried to do with the game so far (diminishing returns of all kinds so that the advantage farmers/grinders have are often negligible to those playing just for fun/less hours)
  • Balancing anything in a system which is used by life-forms is complicated. From my point of view the economy-team and the other developers have the experience and the skill to manage that task. I also have shown above that you can easily add multiplication-factors into the system for balancing issues.
  • The account-bound point is valid, I totally agree. My problem was, that I did not want a certain group of people to flood the market with a certain item, because they have countless of stacks of another certain item. With the runes it would only affect the ones which are by definition account-bound already. As I wrote in the first paragraph of this post (not thread), some of the rewards should be a long way around if the regular path is too complicated/impossible for the player.
  • The market is currently flooded with Globs of Ectoplasm, their value probably decreases even more. As for the other materials required, we are already flooded with them from regular gameplay. And I think, as the Vision of Luck would be an ascended recipe, there is a good chance that it ends up time-gated anyway.

@Glider.5792 said:Might aswell go solo wipe on cairn if a person is that desparate ;DHonestly I was thinking of that option when I wrote the stuff about the raid-currencies. I know a person who does that on a weekly routine. It is possible and I am sure there are plenty of people doing that right now. A lot of cool items are raid-locked in this game and the advertised alternative is to purchase a raid and get carried through it or find a guild/group which carry you for free. If a person does not want to raid or cannot raid for whatever reasons, there is currently no option yet.

@Danikat.8537 said:On top of the issues already raised a lot of the items you suggest as rewards are only available from specific areas of the game, and for good reason. No matter what we say gamers are far less likely to complete something if there isn't a reward they want, so those items provide an incentive to complete the content. If they were available simply by farming materials players would be a lot less likely to do that.

If a person can not use the regular way because of personal issues, let it be a horrible connection, demanding real life or other effects, there is no plan b. The idea is to offer those people a long way around. It will lead you to the goal, but it will take a lot longer than just playing the content and it will cost you resources as well. The art for the developers would be, to make the fence high enough. As I wrote above answering Rasimir, if they make the recipe time-gated, everyone who can do the intended-way will definitely walk that way.

@Danikat.8537 said:Unless of course the cost was as high as you propose. Although I guess some of that comes from not having played the content and not knowing what the currency/material is worth. For example my first training raid we killed 2 bosses and I got 63 Magnetite Shards, but that's not enough to buy anything from the vendor. If this system was put in place they should be priced in-line with the LS3 & 4 currencies, not 250 times more expensive - that's massively over estimating how hard they are to get.

It is true that I do not play raids. I lack the time, dedication and play-style for this. The prices are not fixed. I wanted to give a small overview about how the system would look like and how certain relations inside the system work. I could have also used variables instead, but I feared people would be confused. So instead I picked a couple of numbers which are a little above a realistic approach, not to insult anyones dedication/skill/work in a certain game-type. We already have threads about these topics on the forums. I still think the discussions are necessary and have to be done as often as possible. I made my points so far and am quite satisfied with the outcome. If you want, we can spend the rest of the thread discussing about Raids. I am fine with that.

The other problems are mostly explained with the first part of this post. Again I am sorry for the delay. I wrote the thread in the evening and had a busy week so far.


Thank you for all the nice and constructive replies.

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