Old Mesmer

I'm on a break from GW2. In the meantime I've been playing GW1 and enjoying the Mesmer there very much.

Mesmer was never meant to be a melee class, ( Except for the IW Mesmer which was nerfed heavily enough that it's a unicorn if it's used at all.) That is the fundamental mistake that ANET is making... trying to make a light armor punishment/sabotage class into a melee bruiser.. ala' thief or d/d ele.

ANET should return to the formula that was successful for a decade and still is... Mesmer as a sabotage class. Trying to make Mesmer into a brawler is an example of the dangers of trying to be something one is not.

I completely agree, actually! I've played Mesmer since the launch of GW2 and I love this class so much but being more or less forced to play a mind mage as a sword or axe-wielding bruiser hurts my soul.

They turned mesmer into a swashbuckler or a duelist, which isn't a bad thing per se, but it shouldn't be his core role.

I do not agree. As the game continues to expand, each class will fullfil more roles. Also, both melee weapons, axe and sword, rely more heavily on being evasive, than on face tanking. This fits right into Mesmer them as a whole.

In addition, all classes (no exception) have melee and range weapons and melee weapons tend to deal more damage. This is not a Mesmer exclusive concern by any means.

@"otto.5684" said:I do not agree. As the game continues to expand, each class will fullfil more roles. Also, both melee weapons, axe and sword, rely more heavily on being evasive, than on face tanking. This fits right into Mesmer them as a whole.

In addition, all classes (no exception) have melee and range weapons and melee weapons tend to deal more damage. This is not a Mesmer exclusive concern by any means.

I understand that the game evolves. Mesmer however has always been a sabotage class. At the moment, the profession resembles a rather flashy thief. The sabotage/ illusionist angle isn't really there. I contend that the light armor bruiser role isn't suitable for Mesmer.

As evidence I cite the Illusionary Weaponry Mesmer. Which was unsuccessful in GW1.

The effort to make Mesmer into a bruiser, first as a Chronomancer and later as Mirage has produced a lot of anger. a d/d or Auramancer Ele is suited to the role. A Mesmer is not and requires powerful "crutches" to survive close combat.

You can totally build a full ranged condi mirage for spvp if you want, although limiting yourself to the 100% ranged options, you risk getting countered by any moderate projectile hate. And right now, mesmer has so much trait diversity that you should be able to incorporate all your playstyle wishes into an individual viable build. You can even safely drop one of (if not both) the offensive traitlines like some people here suggest, taking a less aggressive approach. At this point it should not really be a problem to get a build that suites your playstyle.

This argument reminds me of ppl complaining that rangers can use a greatsword.Why not just play like you want to instead of complaining avout something that will never change.

I'm arguing that Mesmer is taking an unproductive path. More than that, I'd like to see what I consider a "real" Mesmer return.

One of the oldest pieces of mesmer concept art out there had a sword. The 'duellist' or 'flashy thief' imagery dates back to before the release of Prophecies, when assassin, let alone thief, hadn't even been considered. GW1 game mechanics and skill design didn't hold that up, but it was always in ArenaNet's mind.

The present situation is essentially one of ranged versus melee balance. Melee weapons generally have better capabilities in terms of damage, defence, CC, and other utility than ranged weapons, to compensate for the lack of range. The state of the meta in much of the game at the moment is one where the range often isn't really useful, and as a result most professions are increasingly drifting towards melee-heavy or even melee-only builds. It's not that ArenaNet has shifted the mesmer's focus heavily towards melee so much as it is that melee is what people want nowadays.

@"draxynnic.3719" said:One of the oldest pieces of mesmer concept art out there had a sword. The 'duellist' or 'flashy thief' imagery dates back to before the release of Prophecies, when assassin, let alone thief, hadn't even been considered. GW1 game mechanics and skill design didn't hold that up, but it was always in ArenaNet's mind.

The present situation is essentially one of ranged versus melee balance. Melee weapons generally have better capabilities in terms of damage, defence, CC, and other utility than ranged weapons, to compensate for the lack of range. The state of the meta in much of the game at the moment is one where the range often isn't really useful, and as a result most professions are increasingly drifting towards melee-heavy or even melee-only builds. It's not that ArenaNet has shifted the mesmer's focus heavily towards melee so much as it is that melee is what people want nowadays.

Ranged is difficult to do with even heavy armored classes able to teleport and stealth cut back strongly.

Mesmer doesn't have boon stacking to permit it to fight like a d/d ele ( after the huge glamour nerf that left Mesmer bottom tier for more than a year.) It doesn't have a necro's heavy AOE or cc. The class is not suited to being a close range light armored fighter.

Yes, the concept art for Prophecy's Mesmer shows a dueling saber. But I have not seen a single Melee Mesmer in GW1. The class has always been about sabotage and Misdirection.

Here's a direct quote from the Guild Wars Wiki: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guide_to_playing_as_a_mesmer They are best described as the debilitating or the saboteur profession that eschew outright attacks; they instead use misdirection against the foolish and rely on control-based abilities to sap foes of their strength.

and that, folks, is what a Mesmer should be.

@Ithilwen.1529 said:Mesmer doesn't have boon stacking to permit it to fight like a d/d ele ( after the huge glamour nerf that left Mesmer bottom tier for more than a year.).

I'm not going to get into this pointless argument about the class theme, because ultimately it's an utter waste of breath. The mesmer class theme is by definition whatever the devs choose it to be, and any opinions to the contrary are categorically incorrect. However, I have to wonder, what on earth are you talking about in that sentence?

@Ithilwen.1529 said:

Ranged is difficult to do with even heavy armored classes able to teleport and stealth cut back strongly.

That's part of my point. In PvP, distances get closed so quickly that you're pretty much always in melee anyway if you have an enemy who wants to get you. In high-end PvE, the meta is usually stackingon the bad guy and outputting as much DPS as possible.

Core mesmer is still fairly range-focused. Three out of four weapons are ranged (900, 1200, and 1200 in fact), with greatsword auto encouraging a long range. The new weapons from elite specialisations are more melee-oriented, but shield fits the more defensive/supportive nature of chronomancers, and a melee condition weapon is something that mesmer players have been asking for for a while. The problem is bigger than the mesmer: it's not that mesmers have been made into a melee profession (they have melee options, but everybody does), it's that the current meta is unfriendly for ranged weapons for almost everyone.

The concept art with a dueling saber shows that it was always something that ArenaNet had in mind, even if it wasn't really implemented (outside of one elite) until now. Now, that playstyle is present. The old playstyle is also still present, as much as reasonably practical given GW2 mechanics, in other weapon sets and the right choices of utilities. It's just that the melee options are largely what the current meta demands.