Things ruining WvW — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Things ruining WvW

Dead eyes.
There hasn’t never been anything more broken than the current invisible on dodge 1shot kill build that we have plaguing WVW at the moment, there’s never been a more sure fire way to shift a battle in ones favour than having a deadeye join you ( even the complete morons running it can kill skilled players without any effort)
And as for countering it you have to get someone in your party to have reveal alongside having your own dead eye to kill them back, if you manage to get one low they 3k range away spamming the rifle backwards evaded then dodge for invis and repeat...it’s a 0 skill play style that needs to be fixed.
Condo thief requires more skill than this and so does condi mirage and that’s saying somthing.

<13

Comments

  • misterman.1530misterman.1530 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree wholeheartedly. For low mobility classes, like Reaper, you are essentially pooched if a cheese-eye gets you in its sights. Other than dodging all over the place, hoping to figure out where it is through some chaotic triangulation, your only chance is to get behind something - tree, building, etc. For example, I was targetted by one in the North East camp in the alpine borderland. I immediatelly dodged into the building behind the Vet supervisor - the building with all the piles of logs. The cheese-eye actually followed me into it. I was able to down him. First and only time I've taken out a dead-eye directly.

  • It will be nerfed for sure, it wasn’t a problem before stealth on dodge became a thing.
    It needs a cooldown ...

  • In before all the deadeye players tell you to easily counter them by using the 30 revealed skills every minute that every class you are playing has access to.

  • misterman.1530misterman.1530 Member ✭✭✭

    @shortcake.8659 said:
    In before all the deadeye players tell you to easily counter them by using the 30 revealed skills every minute that every class you are playing has access to.

    Yeah. All the reveal skills a Necro has...like...Stealth Disruptor traps....and...um...er...Tainted Shackles at a radius of 600 :) That's so effective against something beyond the 1200 range of the max range of Necro skills

  • @shortcake.8659 said:
    In before all the deadeye players tell you to easily counter them by using the 30 revealed skills every minute that every class you are playing has access to.

    Let’s not forget the skill they have which removes revealed from them 😂😂😂👎🏼

  • @shortcake.8659 said:
    In before all the deadeye players tell you to easily counter them by using the 30 revealed skills every minute that every class you are playing has access to.

    @shortcake.8659 said:
    In before all the deadeye players tell you to easily counter them by using the 30 revealed skills every minute that every class you are playing has access to.

    Oh and in theory this could work! But unless reveal freezes them on the spot they evade spam away for about 3k range 😂

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭

    Things? Deadeye players might be sad and pathetic people, but they're still human.

  • Riko.9214Riko.9214 Member ✭✭

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

    Let’s not forget the skill they have which removes revealed from them 😂😂😂👎🏼

    +

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/57722/deadeye-is-balanced-for-roaming

    = lol

    Good thing though it looks like despite being the weakest profession for fighting (not scouting or cleaning up) thief keeps the title of best noobstomper.

  • Odokuro.5049Odokuro.5049 Member ✭✭✭

    Thieves in WvW have always been an active discussion, weather it be their use of Stealth mechanics, Dodges/Evades, Mobility, and ofcoarse having high-end, "1-Shot" capable damage.
    But what most of these discussions, not only on Thieves but other classes/builds fail to see is, "What this class is, what is it's role, and how lore/story plays in the development of their skill/ability arsenal.".
    When people voice their complaints on, "X" class/spec/build all they voice is, "Damage", sure they mention other mechanics of said class being a problem, but the main focus is, "Numbers".

    I too believe tweaks are in order for all classes/builds/armor sets ect. to make it a more level playing field, but I suppose that would cut down on the uniqueness of the classes and make choosing "X" over "Y" redundant because it would all feel, "The same", and a once vibrant game would lose it's appeal and, I love Guild Wars 2, and wouldn't want it to be shelved.

    P.S. I didn't respond like this to attack or flame, like you, I'm just a player posing their opinions and awaiting feedback from the community/ANet.

    Have a nice day.

    The Self-Appointed Pervy Sage of Yaks Bend.

  • @Riko.9214 said:

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

    Let’s not forget the skill they have which removes revealed from them 😂😂😂👎🏼

    +

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/57722/deadeye-is-balanced-for-roaming

    = lol

    Good thing though it looks like despite being the weakest profession for fighting (not scouting or cleaning up) thief keeps the title of best noobstomper.

    Anyone can stomp noobs, only deadeye can stand afk waiting for someone to down in perma stealth for the stomp 😂

    Weakest profession for fighting ?!
    Thief has always been great for 1v1
    If you’re not a noob yourself that is
    The ability to instantly out of combat to reset your health and re engage is the game breaking aspect of thief and is partly to blame why it never gets any buffs (outside of accidental buffs like this game breaking perma invis Accra through stealth on dodge trait, oh which by the way WILL be nerfed 100%, it’s just a matter of, whennn).

  • Riko.9214Riko.9214 Member ✭✭

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

    Thief has always been great for 1v1

    Lol what? Running away is what thief is best for, at equal skill any other prof has better duelling builds (except mb necro vs DE, but that is very specific issue and SoulBeast would stomp those necro much harder for example).

  • @Odokuro.5049 said:
    Thieves in WvW have always been an active discussion, weather it be their use of Stealth mechanics, Dodges/Evades, Mobility, and ofcoarse having high-end, "1-Shot" capable damage.
    But what most of these discussions, not only on Thieves but other classes/builds fail to see is, "What this class is, what is it's role, and how lore/story plays in the development of their skill/ability arsenal.".
    When people voice their complaints on, "X" class/spec/build all they voice is, "Damage", sure they mention other mechanics of said class being a problem, but the main focus is, "Numbers".

    I too believe tweaks are in order for all classes/builds/armor sets ect. to make it a more level playing field, but I suppose that would cut down on the uniqueness of the classes and make choosing "X" over "Y" redundant because it would all feel, "The same", and a once vibrant game would lose it's appeal and, I love Guild Wars 2, and wouldn't want it to be shelved.

    P.S. I didn't respond like this to attack or flame, like you, I'm just a player posing their opinions and awaiting feedback from the community/ANet.

    Have a nice day.

    Appreciate the opinion, yes, my lack of inclusion of other things that need changing isn’t due to the fact that I don’t agree...
    Rather die to the fact that nothing else is quite as game breaking at the moment, (particularly in the area in which I only play WvW roaming) as deadeye currently is, you can try argue otherwise, however I value my opinion on WvW roaming balance pretty highly seing as I have mained this game mode since release, and mained all classes.
    This being the case, I also have many roaming friends who agree with me, daredevils included, that the mechanic of invis on dodge combined with the ability to instantly pic on demand is broken.

  • @Riko.9214 said:

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

    Thief has always been great for 1v1

    Lol what? Running away is what thief is best for, at equal skill any other prof has better duelling builds (except mb necro vs DE, but that is very specific issue and SoulBeast would stomp those necro much harder for example).

    For sure it’s best at running, this is broken 😂 and always will be, however this isn’t the issue, having 1200 range invis on dodge AND the ability to run from anythig IS
    but if it became a 2v1 can that soulbeast run as easily as deadeye? It’s about the risk to reward ratio. The deadeye has the least risk of any class when fighting. Yet also gives the highest reward for minimum effort.
    And my argument isn’t about duelling anyway, in general, but for duelling you’d be hard pressed to win a 1v1 with a competent deadeye, luckily it’s morons who play it as a majority.

  • Riko.9214Riko.9214 Member ✭✭

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

    @Riko.9214 said:

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

    Thief has always been great for 1v1

    Lol what? Running away is what thief is best for, at equal skill any other prof has better duelling builds (except mb necro vs DE, but that is very specific issue and SoulBeast would stomp those necro much harder for example).

    For sure it’s best at running, this is broken 😂 and always will be, however this isn’t the issue, having 1200 range invis on dodge AND the ability to run from anythig IS
    but if it became a 2v1 can that soulbeast run as easily as deadeye? It’s about the risk to reward ratio. The deadeye has the least risk of any class when fighting. Yet also gives the highest reward for minimum effort.
    And my argument isn’t about duelling anyway, in general, but for duelling you’d be hard pressed to win a 1v1 with a competent deadeye, luckily it’s morons who play it as a majority.

    Thief can only reliably run from anything if he either did not fight it at all or only briefly engaged for an opening burst (which would in 90% fail against any non-noob roamer who is not preoccupied by someone/something else).

    So yes against real bad builds/players thief can burst them fast with minimal resource usage and then run away from reinforcements if needed, but on equal skill ground if thief keeps enough resources to run away in his pocket he will not be able to provide real threat.

  • Odokuro.5049Odokuro.5049 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

    @Odokuro.5049 said:
    Thieves in WvW have always been an active discussion, weather it be their use of Stealth mechanics, Dodges/Evades, Mobility, and ofcoarse having high-end, "1-Shot" capable damage.
    But what most of these discussions, not only on Thieves but other classes/builds fail to see is, "What this class is, what is it's role, and how lore/story plays in the development of their skill/ability arsenal.".
    When people voice their complaints on, "X" class/spec/build all they voice is, "Damage", sure they mention other mechanics of said class being a problem, but the main focus is, "Numbers".

    I too believe tweaks are in order for all classes/builds/armor sets ect. to make it a more level playing field, but I suppose that would cut down on the uniqueness of the classes and make choosing "X" over "Y" redundant because it would all feel, "The same", and a once vibrant game would lose it's appeal and, I love Guild Wars 2, and wouldn't want it to be shelved.

    P.S. I didn't respond like this to attack or flame, like you, I'm just a player posing their opinions and awaiting feedback from the community/ANet.

    Have a nice day.

    Appreciate the opinion, yes, my lack of inclusion of other things that need changing isn’t due to the fact that I don’t agree...
    Rather die to the fact that nothing else is quite as game breaking at the moment, (particularly in the area in which I only play WvW roaming) as deadeye currently is, you can try argue otherwise, however I value my opinion on WvW roaming balance pretty highly seing as I have mained this game mode since release, and mained all classes.
    This being the case, I also have many roaming friends who agree with me, daredevils included, that the mechanic of invis on dodge combined with the ability to instantly pic on demand is broken.

    Can I ask what a Thief is to you?

    Because Thief is pretty much the equivalent to GW1's "Assassin", a class who's mechanics play to the idea of the ever elusive, death from the shadows individual. If they made Stealth out to be the way you would like it, ANet would have to give Thieves a new, "Safety", mechanic, and if they lowered their spike damage, they would need to offer them a way to maintain, a highly consistent dps to replace their current, spike-like dps.

    An idea that I'm thinking for the damage part, is that, instead of the spike-damage of a backstab or the rifle-shot equivalent, is to lower the damage potential but inflict a condition such as, "Taunt", to give you the idea that, "Hey I just got hit for a lot of damage, I am scared and don't know how to react." for several seconds. This would be an interesting idea to chase.

    The Self-Appointed Pervy Sage of Yaks Bend.

  • @Riko.9214 said:

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

    @Riko.9214 said:

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

    Thief has always been great for 1v1

    Lol what? Running away is what thief is best for, at equal skill any other prof has better duelling builds (except mb necro vs DE, but that is very specific issue and SoulBeast would stomp those necro much harder for example).

    For sure it’s best at running, this is broken 😂 and always will be, however this isn’t the issue, having 1200 range invis on dodge AND the ability to run from anythig IS
    but if it became a 2v1 can that soulbeast run as easily as deadeye? It’s about the risk to reward ratio. The deadeye has the least risk of any class when fighting. Yet also gives the highest reward for minimum effort.
    And my argument isn’t about duelling anyway, in general, but for duelling you’d be hard pressed to win a 1v1 with a competent deadeye, luckily it’s morons who play it as a majority.

    Thief can only reliably run from anything if he either did not fight it at all or only briefly engaged for an opening burst (which would in 90% fail against any non-noob roamer who is not preoccupied by someone/something else).

    So yes against real bad builds/players thief can burst them fast with minimal resource usage and then run away from reinforcements if needed, but on equal skill ground if thief keeps enough resources to run away in his pocket he will not be able to provide real threat.

    Not from my experience, it’s not hard to dodge roll wait a few second for initiative to come back then spam backevade port on rifle ....

  • @Odokuro.5049 said:

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

    @Odokuro.5049 said:
    Thieves in WvW have always been an active discussion, weather it be their use of Stealth mechanics, Dodges/Evades, Mobility, and ofcoarse having high-end, "1-Shot" capable damage.
    But what most of these discussions, not only on Thieves but other classes/builds fail to see is, "What this class is, what is it's role, and how lore/story plays in the development of their skill/ability arsenal.".
    When people voice their complaints on, "X" class/spec/build all they voice is, "Damage", sure they mention other mechanics of said class being a problem, but the main focus is, "Numbers".

    I too believe tweaks are in order for all classes/builds/armor sets ect. to make it a more level playing field, but I suppose that would cut down on the uniqueness of the classes and make choosing "X" over "Y" redundant because it would all feel, "The same", and a once vibrant game would lose it's appeal and, I love Guild Wars 2, and wouldn't want it to be shelved.

    P.S. I didn't respond like this to attack or flame, like you, I'm just a player posing their opinions and awaiting feedback from the community/ANet.

    Have a nice day.

    Appreciate the opinion, yes, my lack of inclusion of other things that need changing isn’t due to the fact that I don’t agree...
    Rather die to the fact that nothing else is quite as game breaking at the moment, (particularly in the area in which I only play WvW roaming) as deadeye currently is, you can try argue otherwise, however I value my opinion on WvW roaming balance pretty highly seing as I have mained this game mode since release, and mained all classes.
    This being the case, I also have many roaming friends who agree with me, daredevils included, that the mechanic of invis on dodge combined with the ability to instantly pic on demand is broken.

    Can I ask what a Thief is to you?

    Because Thief is pretty much the equivalent to GW1's "Assassin", a class who's mechanics play to the idea of the ever elusive, death from the shadows individual. If they made Stealth out to be the way you would like it, ANet would have to give Thieves a new, "Safety", mechanic, and if they lowered their spike damage, they would need to offer them a way to maintain, a highly consistent dps to replace their current, spike-like dps.

    An idea that I'm thinking for the damage part, is that, instead of the spike-damage of a backstab or the rifle-shot equivalent, is to lower the damage potential but inflict a condition such as, "Taunt", to give you the idea that, "Hey I just got hit for a lot of damage, I am scared and don't know how to react." for several seconds. This would be an interesting idea to chase.

    Well, thief wasn’t broken before this dodge invis spam....
    There was ONE broken build that involved staying in stealth perma and then instantly downing you with a backstab for about 20k, and rarely anyone ran it, now this rarely used build is suddenly ran by everyone and his nans dog, and not only is it perma stealth 1 shot, it’s perma stealth 1shot from 1200range.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

    @shortcake.8659 said:
    In before all the deadeye players tell you to easily counter them by using the 30 revealed skills every minute that every class you are playing has access to.

    @shortcake.8659 said:
    In before all the deadeye players tell you to easily counter them by using the 30 revealed skills every minute that every class you are playing has access to.

    Oh and in theory this could work! But unless reveal freezes them on the spot they evade spam away for about 3k range 😂

    It doesn't seem like you've played DE or know much about it. Can you tell me how they can "evade spam away for about 3k range"?

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • If it’s not an evade, my bad, but I’m referring to the rifle skill which ports you backwards that is spammable.
    And if your argument that DE isn’t op because it can’t port 3k range away?
    What’s your argument to keep invis on dodge ?

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2018

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:
    If it’s not an evade, my bad, but I’m referring to the rifle skill which ports you backwards that is spammable.
    And if your argument that DE isn’t op because it can’t port 3k range away?
    What’s your argument to keep invis on dodge ?

    Death's Retreat costs 5 initiative. Coming from the type of DE that you are complaining about they can do it twice in a row, and it's only 600 units, 300 less range than Infiltrator's Arrow. Hardly spammable. I don't wan't to keep stealth on Dodge, I'd rather have the trait "Unforgiving" back to promote more active out-of-stealth gameplay, rather than passive tedious sit-in-stealth gameplay.

    Though you seem very consumed with DE in general, I suggest trying one and seeing if it's as easy as you make it out to be. From how you are describing it, I don't think you'll have a very good time right off the bat...or even with a few weeks of practice...

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • @Turk.5460 said:

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:
    If it’s not an evade, my bad, but I’m referring to the rifle skill which ports you backwards that is spammable.
    And if your argument that DE isn’t op because it can’t port 3k range away?
    What’s your argument to keep invis on dodge ?

    Death's Retreat costs 6 initiative. Coming from the type of DE that you are complaining about they can do it twice in a row, and it's only 600 units, 300 less range than Infiltrator's Arrow. Hardly spammable. I don't wan't to keep stealth on Dodge, I'd rather have the trait "Unforgiving" back to promote more active out-of-stealth gameplay, rather than passive tedious sit-in-stealth gameplay.

    Though you seem very consumed with DE in general, I suggest trying one and seeing if it's as easy as you make it out to be. From how you are describing it, I don't think you'll have a very good time right off the bat...or even with a few weeks of practice...

    Awh. This cute bash at my ingame skill, cute.
    Let’s forgoe my mention of this spammable evade backwards, which can be used three times.
    And go back to the invisible on dodge...
    Please explain how this is balanced, and I did try deadeye, it’s broken, you can port backwards once, dodge for invis wait a few seconds then port back again a few times....no point getting nit picky about duration and costs of skills when in reality it’s doable 😂 I’ll get nit picky too and refer you to what I said, which you quoted, port 3k away, I never mentioned the time it took did I, and if we are being nitpicky you also took into concoderation I didn’t mean all at once so you’re not beyond some interpretating so carry that to my other points and we will do just fine xxx

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:
    If it’s not an evade, my bad, but I’m referring to the rifle skill which ports you backwards that is spammable.
    And if your argument that DE isn’t op because it can’t port 3k range away?
    What’s your argument to keep invis on dodge ?

    Death's Retreat costs 6 initiative. Coming from the type of DE that you are complaining about they can do it twice in a row, and it's only 600 units, 300 less range than Infiltrator's Arrow. Hardly spammable. I don't wan't to keep stealth on Dodge, I'd rather have the trait "Unforgiving" back to promote more active out-of-stealth gameplay, rather than passive tedious sit-in-stealth gameplay.

    Though you seem very consumed with DE in general, I suggest trying one and seeing if it's as easy as you make it out to be. From how you are describing it, I don't think you'll have a very good time right off the bat...or even with a few weeks of practice...

    Awh. This cute bash at my ingame skill, cute.
    Let’s forgoe my mention of this spammable evade backwards, which can be used three times.
    And go back to the invisible on dodge...
    Please explain how this is balanced, and I did try deadeye, it’s broken, you can port backwards once, dodge for invis wait a few seconds then port back again a few times....no point getting nit picky about duration and costs of skills when in reality it’s doable 😂 I’ll get nit picky too and refer you to what I said, which you quoted, port 3k away, I never mentioned the time it took did I, and if we are being nitpicky you also took into concoderation I didn’t mean all at once so you’re not beyond some interpretating so carry that to my other points and we will do just fine xxx

    Calm down. I wouldn't consider facts and educated observations "nit-picking."

    You claim Death's Retreat evades (no) and is spammable (no), and can go 3k range (sure? after multiple?). The way you word this implies in quick succession, otherwise one could use your same logic to say Warrior's Sword2, Savage Leap, is spammable and can go 3k range as long as you do it off cooldown... If this is not what you mean then it is up to you to write your opinion better, not up to your reader to interpret your convoluted thought process.

    Death's Retreat:
    - Can only be done twice in a row by the DE's that are making you salty. 3 times if "wait a few seconds then port again." What is "spammable" to you?
    - 600 range. You keep saying 3k? 3000/600=5. That means it would take 5 DR's to get 3k range. That's 25 initiative. Again, the DE's that are angering you only have 12 initiative in their pool total. Not spammable - Myth busted.
    - Doesn't evade

    The only reason I mentioned it would take you a while to learn it is because you don't seem to know anything about it right now. The best way to overcome a build that is besting you is to learn how it works - go give it a shot.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think the majority of the problem is that the complaints about [insert_class/build] are coming maybe from an area of not enough experience in dealing with them and also not spending enough time on those classes to identify where it shines or is weak at. It's also not a matter of just spending a few hours or even a month on that class in particular, it takes much much longer than that to say why class/build x is a problem with no counterplay for you and maybe others (I do know some people have such hate for these kind of things they even refuse to play the classes/builds even if it's about trying to teach them to beat it or learn more about it). I spend a lot of time trying to outdo opponents which I find are hard to deal with or are supposedly a counter to mine - there are always ways around it that may not be entirely obvious. There is a human mind behind that character and they are fallible. In the end, if you take the experience with a more open mind you will learn a lot more from it and be able to deal with it much easier. I'm now at a point where deadeyes are just meh on whatever class/build I am using, because almost all of them are predictable, and you can almost always predict where they are going to be waiting/stalking for a free kill. I just think the frustration of not having the experience in dealing with it is part of the problem, but I personally do think that if people just took the time to learn the problem class/build there might be less issues. This is just my opinion of course and I don't like taking the easiest route when something kills me, I just try to learn from it and improve until it no longer becomes a problem. I hope you guys can give it a shot, Good luck!

  • How to fix the most handicapped class atm with 3 steps.
    1. Remove stealth on dodge
    2. ???
    3. Profit
    Maybe then it will need actually 2 hands to be played, who knows. We will find out after summer balance patch, so be ready!

  • Shadowcat.2680Shadowcat.2680 Member ✭✭✭

    From the title, I thought this would be a thread about golem rushes.

    Carry on, I suppose.

  • Balthazzarr.1349Balthazzarr.1349 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2018

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:
    Dead eyes.
    There hasn’t never been anything more broken than the current invisible on dodge 1shot kill build that we have plaguing WVW at the moment, there’s never been a more sure fire way to shift a battle in ones favour than having a deadeye join you ( even the complete morons running it can kill skilled players without any effort)
    And as for countering it you have to get someone in your party to have reveal alongside having your own dead eye to kill them back, if you manage to get one low they 3k range away spamming the rifle backwards evaded then dodge for invis and repeat...it’s a 0 skill play style that needs to be fixed.
    Condo thief requires more skill than this and so does condi mirage and that’s saying somthing.

    lol. I have lost count of the noob deadeyes I have killed. So many people believe like you and try to gank my soulbeast only to lay dead seconds later. Only good players kill me.. the scrubs playing deadeye, mesmer, engi etc just die fast.

    Just another WvW lifer who'll never say die... while dying again and again!

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2018

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    How to fix the most handicapped class atm with 3 steps.

    That title actually belongs to Core Warrior. That's been the go-to handicap build for the unskilled for years. :)

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    How to fix the most handicapped class atm with 3 steps.
    1. Remove stealth on dodge
    2. ???
    3. Profit
    Maybe then it will need actually 2 hands to be played, who knows. We will find out after summer balance patch, so be ready!

    You say remove stealth on dodge as if most thieves in on these forums haven't suggested that already. Would you actually not have a problem with the class anymore if the devs made that change?

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kash.9213 said:
    You say remove stealth on dodge as if most thieves in on these forums haven't suggested that already. Would you actually not have a problem with the class anymore if the devs made that change?

    I think the people that have a problem with thief in general will always find something they dislike about it. Actually that goes for anyone with a particular dislike for certain classes. They want to see the changes that basically stop making people use them and won't be happy until the number of players get culled.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    @Odokuro.5049 said:
    But what most of these discussions, not only on Thieves but other classes/builds fail to see is, "What this class is, what is it's role, and how lore/story plays in the development of their skill/ability arsenal.".

    Sure. Fair enough. There isnt any place where thieves shines. I just dont like play agianst it. You are catching the wind. There should be bigger window where thief is visible. I dont ask for something huge. After all its sniper he have to 1shot you. Sniper with teleportation device. Sniper with teleportation device on drugs.

    Jokaurene

  • Tyyphoon.5301Tyyphoon.5301 Member ✭✭
    edited October 12, 2018

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:
    Dead eyes.
    There hasn’t never been anything more broken than the current invisible on dodge 1shot kill build that we have plaguing WVW at the moment, there’s never been a more sure fire way to shift a battle in ones favour than having a deadeye join you ( even the complete morons running it can kill skilled players without any effort)
    And as for countering it you have to get someone in your party to have reveal alongside having your own dead eye to kill them back, if you manage to get one low they 3k range away spamming the rifle backwards evaded then dodge for invis and repeat...it’s a 0 skill play style that needs to be fixed.
    Condo thief requires more skill than this and so does condi mirage and that’s saying somthing.

    Sounds like OP has a L2P issue. Once ANET stops pigeon-holing thieves into a specific build/setup (i.e. DE), we can return to having a civil discussion. Til then, please keep getting afk-stomped by fellow DEs. #MeToo

    Tyyphóón (Thief) | Lil Tyy (Thief) | Mini Tyy (Ele)
    [HUNT] Predatory Instinct | [Caps] Glorious Dappers
    What does not kill me, makes me stronger. -Nietzsche
    Victory is reserved for those who are willing to pay it's price. -Sun Tzu

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyyphoon.5301 said:

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:
    Dead eyes.
    There hasn’t never been anything more broken than the current invisible on dodge 1shot kill build that we have plaguing WVW at the moment, there’s never been a more sure fire way to shift a battle in ones favour than having a deadeye join you ( even the complete morons running it can kill skilled players without any effort)
    And as for countering it you have to get someone in your party to have reveal alongside having your own dead eye to kill them back, if you manage to get one low they 3k range away spamming the rifle backwards evaded then dodge for invis and repeat...it’s a 0 skill play style that needs to be fixed.
    Condo thief requires more skill than this and so does condi mirage and that’s saying somthing.

    Sounds like OP has a L2P issue. Once ANET stops pigeon-holing thieves into a specific build/setup (i.e. DE), we can return to having a civil discussion. Til then, please keep getting afk-stomped by fellow DEs. #MeToo

    Yes the thief that's being pigeon holed into deadeye when daredevil is still 5x as common to see.

    Why do this remind me of people seeing condi mirages as the only existing roamer...

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I keep waiting to run into broken deadeyes after all these threads but almost all the ones I've fought have been free kills basically idgi.

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Tyyphoon.5301 said:

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:
    Dead eyes.
    There hasn’t never been anything more broken than the current invisible on dodge 1shot kill build that we have plaguing WVW at the moment, there’s never been a more sure fire way to shift a battle in ones favour than having a deadeye join you ( even the complete morons running it can kill skilled players without any effort)
    And as for countering it you have to get someone in your party to have reveal alongside having your own dead eye to kill them back, if you manage to get one low they 3k range away spamming the rifle backwards evaded then dodge for invis and repeat...it’s a 0 skill play style that needs to be fixed.
    Condo thief requires more skill than this and so does condi mirage and that’s saying somthing.

    Sounds like OP has a L2P issue. Once ANET stops pigeon-holing thieves into a specific build/setup (i.e. DE), we can return to having a civil discussion. Til then, please keep getting afk-stomped by fellow DEs. #MeToo

    Yes the thief that's being pigeon holed into deadeye when daredevil is still 5x as common to see.

    Why do this remind me of people seeing condi mirages as the only existing roamer...

    You should do well to explain that sentiment to these players:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/56399/deadeye-needs-nerf#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/55966/thieves-ruin-wvw#latest
    And ofc, this thread: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/57721/things-ruining-wvw#latest

    @Israel.7056 said:
    I keep waiting to run into broken deadeyes after all these threads but almost all the ones I've fought have been free kills basically idgi.

    I just dont think you've ran into the same "stealth afk-stomping" DEs the OP has reluctantly encountered. You probably should continue searching for that unicorn...

    Tyyphóón (Thief) | Lil Tyy (Thief) | Mini Tyy (Ele)
    [HUNT] Predatory Instinct | [Caps] Glorious Dappers
    What does not kill me, makes me stronger. -Nietzsche
    Victory is reserved for those who are willing to pay it's price. -Sun Tzu

  • @Israel.7056 said:
    I keep waiting to run into broken deadeyes after all these threads but almost all the ones I've fought have been free kills basically idgi.

    I've found them a loooot easier to manage after the recent changes and I'm seeing a lot less as well. Their entire concept is still extremely un-fun to play against and they're still capable of one shotting you out of no where if you're not paying attention but, at least if you're prepared they're much less of an issue now.

    Hot Love [xo] | Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer | Kaineng | Diamond Legend
    The hardest lessons you'll learn are the ones you've been told ... ♫

  • OP...what class do you play?
    If its FOTM Reaper and you have difficulty, then its clearly a l2p issue.

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭

    You have to admit, it's pretty stupid when you're roaming and you come across a perma-stealth deadeye that

    • will kill you eventually if you don't have perfect reflexes and good latency
    • you can't realistically punish because even if you land reveal, they'll just remove it and restealth
    • can keep this up indefinitely

    Like, it's not the most OP thing in the game, but it is really unfun gameplay.

    I'd suggest removing the ability to cancel reveal. If you land a reveal, it ought to actually work on the one class you really need it for.

    I'd also possibly increase the cast time or make DJ blockable. That's just a little too difficult to dodge when it comes out of stealth with quickness. It is physically impossible to dodge given normal human reaction times and ~100ms latency.

  • @Sleepwalker.1398 said:
    OP...what class do you play?
    If its FOTM Reaper and you have difficulty, then its clearly a l2p issue.

    Mate I have an op condi rev build that has 4050 armour in mallyx, it still takes huge dmg from deadeye.
    I also run a tanky custom holo build with sword shield( that’s useless due to u blockable)
    I also have a 3k armor soulbeast that deadeyes take 60-80% hp in a single hit.
    I’ve got every class geared to the max with good builds all made for roaming...
    I’ve roamed and theorycrafted builds which are pretty op since release...
    If I’m having a problem with somthign it’s because it’s broken and needs fixing, not because I’m a noob who doesn’t understand the mechanics or has some noob build with rare gear.

  • @Tyyphoon.5301 said:

    @Trepidation Lost.3469 said:
    Dead eyes.
    There hasn’t never been anything more broken than the current invisible on dodge 1shot kill build that we have plaguing WVW at the moment, there’s never been a more sure fire way to shift a battle in ones favour than having a deadeye join you ( even the complete morons running it can kill skilled players without any effort)
    And as for countering it you have to get someone in your party to have reveal alongside having your own dead eye to kill them back, if you manage to get one low they 3k range away spamming the rifle backwards evaded then dodge for invis and repeat...it’s a 0 skill play style that needs to be fixed.
    Condo thief requires more skill than this and so does condi mirage and that’s saying somthing.

    Sounds like OP has a L2P issue. Once ANET stops pigeon-holing thieves into a specific build/setup (i.e. DE), we can return to having a civil discussion. Til then, please keep getting afk-stomped by fellow DEs. #MeToo

    I have a learn to play issue? Please tell me how to fight this then. I’m eager to hear your response, I play each class, so be sure to tell me which builds are good for facing it etc.
    And why.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2018

    @coro.3176 said:
    You have to admit, it's pretty stupid when you're roaming and you come across a perma-stealth deadeye that

    • will kill you eventually if you don't have perfect reflexes and good latency
    • you can't realistically punish because even if you land reveal, they'll just remove it and restealth
    • can keep this up indefinitely

    Like, it's not the most OP thing in the game, but it is really unfun gameplay.

    I'd suggest removing the ability to cancel reveal. If you land a reveal, it ought to actually work on the one class you really need it for.

    I'd also possibly increase the cast time or make DJ blockable. That's just a little too difficult to dodge when it comes out of stealth with quickness. It is physically impossible to dodge given normal human reaction times and ~100ms latency.

    I'd be fine with Shadow Meld instead giving residual stealth modifiers for Shadow Arts and other traits after being revealed so we'd still be targetable but not totally canceling out an entire trait line. I'd also be fine with replacing dodge to stealth with something more like original Silent Scope or at least something not so frequently sustainable but we need something legit there since we already had a solid Elite spec axed for this new deadeye because people complained about Malice build up before. I don't like DJ being a stealth skill but it's not all that difficult to dodge, even under quickness you should know to have dodge ready once you get Marked. Lag and kitten pings suck for anyone but don't gradually nerf a class into a joke because some people are playing through tin cans and string.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

<13
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