Serpent's Ire Meta needs nerf

The second phase requires way too much CC. As much as I know you need 2 full squads to do it.So my attempt with 1 squad (which btw was organized very well) didnt make it. The bomb exploded and it failed.

Why is this required to be so difficult? Organizing 2 full squads even with a big guild like the one I am in is almost impossible.

Please nerf the CC by at least 33%.

@Clyan.1593 said:The second phase requires way too much CC. As much as I know you need 2 full squads to do it.So my attempt with 1 squad (which btw was organized very well) didnt make it. The bomb explodes and it failed.

Why is this required to be so difficult? Organizing 2 full squads even with a big guild like the one I am in is almost impossible.

Please nerf the CC by at least 33%.

I've never seen a well-organized run fail at this. (I haven't even seen that many not-so-well-organized runs fail. Just random ones without any leadership.)

I have nothing against ANet adjusting it, in terms of tedium or rewards, as it feels less like fun and more like work to me. But I do like that it's challenging and won't succeed unless a core group of people are focused. So I'm against arbitrarily changing it just because some or even a lot of people have failed it more than once.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Clyan.1593 said:The second phase requires way too much CC. As much as I know you need 2 full squads to do it.So my attempt with 1 squad (which btw was organized very well) didnt make it. The bomb explodes and it failed.

Why is this required to be so difficult? Organizing 2 full squads even with a big guild like the one I am in is almost impossible.

Please nerf the CC by at least 33%.

Not only that, but we've had plenty of instances of the event being finished by groups with only 20 people(5 at each), it just takes people that know how and when to use their CC.

@Zaklex.6308 said:Not only that, but we've had plenty of instances of the event being finished by groups with only 20 people(5 at each), it just takes people that know how and when to use their CC.

Indeed. Thanks for pointing it out: it's not about the size of the squad; it's about knowing how & when to apply CC and damage.

My run was well organized as I said, however I cannot control how people play, if they failed to recognize when to CC isn't in my sight. At least my squad did kill the champ, but the others failed although I precicley explained how to do it.

Even if you have seen many people do it, the event is almost ignored every time I go the map. Fact is people don't play it that much and there are many other threads about this issue. Compared to other metas this one is fairly low populated because of its difficulty.

Everytime someone goes to the forum complaining about a certain issue, people like you show up and tell them the most impossible things like you telling me now you have "seen" squads doing it with only 20 people just to raise a counter point. It's rediculous at least.

Beside that there is nothing challenging about the fights itself as you are trying to make it seem like. It's the usual stuff, spread evenly among the marks, cc and dmg. This isn't fractal 99 cm or 100 cm in which you really have to understand the various mechanics. Neither is it a raid boss. It's just a meta that rarely gets played - and the reason for it is its cc bars.

I tend to believe the video evidence available on YouTube that this is perfectly doable with a single squad, though the quality of commanders may vary.

The event is doable but is not worth the hassle.Just nerf the cc phase so ppl can farm that meta like all the metas in the game.The reward sucks anyway, just let ppl enjoy it.

It is a mess of an event but what tops it off is how utterly unrewarding it is. Why that aspect wont be addressed it baffling. Sticking it in collections is not the answer to improving things.

@Leablo.2651 said:I tend to believe the video evidence available on YouTube that this is perfectly doable with a single squad, though the quality of commanders may vary.

I love this. So when 50 people are involved and the commander has explained everything, he's still the reason it fails?It isn't a secret that most people do not even know what CC is. Especially on EU most of them don't understand it. Even writing them it means crowd control doesn't help, because they simply don't know what it means nor which skills count as CC.

In the meantime since I opened this thread there had been 3 further attempts from other commanders to do the event, all of them failed despite the fact that everything has been explained in detail.

Some players from those squads are well aware of how difficult this event is and many of them find it just as rediculous as me.

So in total from 4 events non had been successfully completed, and I am yet to try another one. Let's see how many it takes until it works out...

@Clyan.1593 said:

@Leablo.2651 said:I tend to believe the video evidence available on YouTube that this is perfectly doable with a single squad, though the quality of commanders may vary.

So... you didn't ask for a show of hands for who was prepared for cc and count/assign them to subsquads so you knew how many you could count on? But you claimed your run was very well-organized... and this is all shown in YouTube videos... thinking...

No. If it's hard, keep it hard. If it's easy, keep it easy.

Only thing that's sad about this is that people still do not understand what cc is

@Leablo.2651 said:

@Clyan.1593 said:

@Leablo.2651 said:I tend to believe the video evidence available on YouTube that this is perfectly doable with a single squad, though the quality of commanders may vary.

We had a full squad, and I never have seen ANYone ask for CC skill spam in chat. This is a meta event. What do you do when they don't show you the skills? Throw them out of the squad? In a meta that almost never gets played? How rediculous is the point you are trying to make? And how many weapon sets are there that do not give CC skills to you anyway? At least there is soft CC on most of them.

And even if some of them didn't have CC, if a full squad that is evenly spread on all champs still fails, and if 4 further attempts fail too, then I think you can't make a point like this.

As I said I did explain everything, so logically I also told them to use CC, not only once but throughout the event at least 10 times - until the bomb went off.

Don't try to make it more complicated than it actually is: The CC bars are crazy and it needs to be toned down. The sheer amount of people playing the event and the fact that it almost always fails / almost never gets played is a clear sign for that.

@Clyan.1593 said:

@Leablo.2651 said:

@Clyan.1593 said:

@Leablo.2651 said:I tend to believe the video evidence available on YouTube that this is perfectly doable with a single squad, though the quality of commanders may vary.

So you expect everybody to know everything about this? It's your responsibility to remind others to bring CC ahead of time, otherwise you have no right to complain about the event failing. Seriously,. this is child's play. Everybody can reminds others, if you know better than them teach them. It's NOT ridiculous to expect the players who participate to try and do what is required to finish it. They take part in it, they all want to finish it. Stop pretending like they are absolutely unable to slot in CC in their utility skills. Things like Springer engage skill also exist for the first breakbar, you should always start mounted like that. Thieves take Basi venom and share it to 5 other people, warriors can take Headbutt or Rampage, use a Hammer secondary, slot in Bull's Charge and Stomp... But you have to tell them. It's an event where you can tell if people aren't pulling their weight, which is the only reason it is so hard.

@"Clyan.1593" said:My run was well organized as I said,How was it actually organized? I've seen commanders do a stellar job of rounding up people, without taking responsibility for ensuring that folks know what skills to bring and when to use them. Also important in that fight is positioning, something that also gets neglected.

although I precicley explained how to do it.Would you share with us the explanation? I've seen some that are technically accurate but not helpful to someone unfamiliar with the mechanics beforehand.

One thing that affects the success of Serpent's Ire versus Istan or TD Metas is that there are very few people who repeat it so often that they need no explanation to usefully contribute. There are always enough people in Hot metas to ensure success, but that didn't used to be the case; even after the Chak Gherent was nerfed, it failed often because of lack of familiarity.

So it's not surprising that commanders can show up to SI thinking that they don't need to do much, whereas, for now, it takes so much more.

Even if you have seen many people do it, the event is almost ignored every time I go the map.This is true.

Compared to other metas this one is fairly low populated because of its difficulty.No, it's really not that much harder than Octovine or Dragon's Stand. What's different is that people have succeeded feel little reason to return. There's no amazingly-valuable reward like an infusion or special weapon, it's not required for earning map currency, there are other sources of mosaics, and it's certainly not needed for important, repeat collections.

In short, people have a vested interest in learning & repeating other metas; they have few reasons to do this one more than 2-3x at most. It's not the difficulty (or at least, not that alone).

Everytime someone goes to the forum complaining about a certain issue, people like you show up and tell them the most impossible things like you telling me now you have "seen" squads doing it with only 20 people just to raise a counter point. It's rediculous at least.Unless you think people are making this up or faking videos, it absolutely happens. I more commonly see big zergs, organized by one of the major challenging-meta-communities. But I've also participated with less-famous guilds, who literally just call out for people in LFG and /map. They don't have highly-publicized calendars.

Beside that there is nothing challenging about the fights itself as you are trying to make it seem like. It's the usual stuff, spread evenly among the marks, cc and dmg.That's what I said: it's not that challenging mechanically. It really is a matter of organizing people. And that turns out to be incredibly difficult when a large chunk of people are new each time.

This isn't fractal 99 cm or 100 cm in which you really have to understand the various mechanics. Neither is it a raid boss. It's just a meta that rarely gets played - and the reason for it is its cc bars.In fact, in every meta, a core group does need to understand the mechanics. In commonly-successful ones, that core group exists without training, because people have reason to return again & again. In SI, there's no such reason, so it's much harder to succeed because one has to start from scratch each time.

My posts above are a reaction to the idea that there's a problem with the mechanics of the fight requiring it to be nerfed. I can't agree, for the reasons outlined above. However, if the post tackled the underlying issues, instead of alleging a specific cause (and assuming a 'best' approach), my response would be very different.

I think just about everyone can agree that Serpent's Ire doesn't succeed as often as HoT metas. I think further most can agree that SI isn't tempting to repeat, for a variety of reasons that vary depending on the person: for some it's the likelihood of failure, for some it's the lackluster rewards, for some the long duration of the fight, for some the amount of attention required for the duration. For most, probably some combination.

I don't think it matters why at this point.

Regardless of the reasons it doesn't succeed, I'd like to see ANet review this event (and other, recently-added metas), to review whether they are satisfied with having these interesting chain-events get little attention. If they are ok with the status quo, I'd like them to explain why. If they want things to change, I'd like them to open discussion with players about what sort of things would get us to return.

tl;dr I don't care why the event tends to fail. I think it's a shame and a waste of resources to leave it alone, without ANet taking a look at what they want to see or at least telling us they are satisfied with how often it succeeds.

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Clyan.1593 said:

@Leablo.2651 said:

@Clyan.1593 said:

@Leablo.2651 said:I tend to believe the video evidence available on YouTube that this is perfectly doable with a single squad, though the quality of commanders may vary.

As I said already I told everyone to get CC, what's your point, that I specifically didnt check on every single player in a 50 man squad?It becomes very obvious you are trying to compromise me by making me the problem of the event failing.The event rarely gets played and if so it fails almost every time, so there is no point in trying to blame me for a single run that failed. Thx and goodbye.

The breakbar HP is extremely bloated and the damage phase is tiny. I did it today and we succeeded with like 1% left to go until we failed.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Clyan.1593" said:My run was well organized as I said,How was it actually organized? I've seen commanders do a stellar job of rounding up people, without taking responsibility for ensuring that folks know what skills to bring and when to use them. Also important in that fight is positioning, something that also gets neglected.

although I precicley explained how to do it.Would you share with us the explanation? I've seen some that are technically accurate but not helpful to someone unfamiliar with the mechanics beforehand.

Even if you have seen many people do it, the event is almost ignored every time I go the map.This is true.

Compared to other metas this one is fairly low populated because of its difficulty.No, it's really not that much harder than Octovine or Dragon's Stand. What's different is that people have succeeded feel little reason to return. There's no amazingly-valuable reward like an infusion or special weapon, it's not required for earning map currency, there are other sources of mosaics, and it's certainly not needed for important, repeat collections.

Everytime someone goes to the forum complaining about a certain issue, people like you show up and tell them the most impossible things like you telling me now you have "seen" squads doing it with only 20 people just to raise a counter point. It's rediculous at least.Unless you think people are making this up or faking videos, it absolutely happens. I more commonly see big zergs, organized by one of the major challenging-meta-communities. But I've also participated with less-famous guilds, who literally just call out for people in LFG and /map. They don't have highly-publicized calendars.

Beside that there is nothing challenging about the fights itself as you are trying to make it seem like. It's the usual stuff, spread evenly among the marks, cc and dmg.That's what I said: it's not that challenging mechanically. It really is a matter of organizing people. And that turns out to be incredibly difficult when a large chunk of people are new each time.

This isn't fractal 99 cm or 100 cm in which you really have to understand the various mechanics. Neither is it a raid boss. It's just a meta that rarely gets played - and the reason for it is its cc bars.In fact, in every meta, a core group does need to understand the mechanics. In commonly-successful ones, that core group exists without training, because people have reason to return again & again. In SI, there's no such reason, so it's much harder to succeed because one has to start from scratch each time.

At this point it becomes clear that you don't want to change your mind but rather are interested in deconstructing everything I have said or done or not done. As usual with people who are against something without any good reason they tend to focus on the person complaining and start to compromise and distract him/her by getting them entangled in a huge and pointless discussion in which the OP has to answer more and more questions/accusations that warp the whole thopic into a mess.

Typical forum mentality.

So naturally I'm not going to play your game. I'm not here to satisfy your lust in discussions nor do I feel the need to change your mind, just because you have another opinion. That's fine with me. I am here to state the facts: That this event is too difficult, that it nearly never gets played - and if more than often fails. After 4 further attempts since this thread was made I still haven't succesfully completed it (4 different commanders as well). In 20 minutes there will be another run, and I have a feeling it's gonna fail again. We'll see.

@Clyan.1593 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Clyan.1593 said:My run was well organized as I said,How was it actually organized? I've seen commanders do a stellar job of rounding up people, without taking responsibility for ensuring that folks know what skills to bring and when to use them. Also important in that fight is positioning, something that also gets neglected.

although I precicley explained how to do it.Would you share with us the explanation? I've seen some that are technically accurate but not helpful to someone unfamiliar with the mechanics beforehand.

Even if you have seen many people do it, the event is almost ignored every time I go the map.This is true.

Compared to other metas this one is fairly low populated because of its difficulty.No, it's really not that much harder than Octovine or Dragon's Stand. What's different is that people have succeeded feel little reason to return. There's no amazingly-valuable reward like an infusion or special weapon, it's not required for earning map currency, there are other sources of mosaics, and it's certainly not needed for important, repeat collections.

Everytime someone goes to the forum complaining about a certain issue, people like you show up and tell them the most impossible things like you telling me now you have "seen" squads doing it with only 20 people just to raise a counter point. It's rediculous at least.Unless you think people are making this up or faking videos, it absolutely happens. I more commonly see big zergs, organized by one of the major challenging-meta-communities. But I've also participated with less-famous guilds, who literally just call out for people in LFG and /map. They don't have highly-publicized calendars.

Beside that there is nothing challenging about the fights itself as you are trying to make it seem like. It's the usual stuff, spread evenly among the marks, cc and dmg.That's what I said: it's not that challenging mechanically. It really is a matter of organizing people. And that turns out to be incredibly difficult when a large chunk of people are new each time.

This isn't fractal 99 cm or 100 cm in which you really have to understand the various mechanics. Neither is it a raid boss. It's just a meta that rarely gets played - and the reason for it is its cc bars.In fact, in every meta, a core group does need to understand the mechanics. In commonly-successful ones, that core group exists without training, because people have reason to return again & again. In SI, there's no such reason, so it's much harder to succeed because one has to start from scratch each time.

Someone could say the exact same thing about posts that take issue with Serpent’s Ire.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Clyan.1593 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Clyan.1593 said:My run was well organized as I said,How was it actually organized? I've seen commanders do a stellar job of rounding up people, without taking responsibility for ensuring that folks know what skills to bring and when to use them. Also important in that fight is positioning, something that also gets neglected.

although I precicley explained how to do it.Would you share with us the explanation? I've seen some that are technically accurate but not helpful to someone unfamiliar with the mechanics beforehand.

Even if you have seen many people do it, the event is almost ignored every time I go the map.This is true.

Compared to other metas this one is fairly low populated because of its difficulty.No, it's really not that much harder than Octovine or Dragon's Stand. What's different is that people have succeeded feel little reason to return. There's no amazingly-valuable reward like an infusion or special weapon, it's not required for earning map currency, there are other sources of mosaics, and it's certainly not needed for important, repeat collections.

Everytime someone goes to the forum complaining about a certain issue, people like you show up and tell them the most impossible things like you telling me now you have "seen" squads doing it with only 20 people just to raise a counter point. It's rediculous at least.Unless you think people are making this up or faking videos, it absolutely happens. I more commonly see big zergs, organized by one of the major challenging-meta-communities. But I've also participated with less-famous guilds, who literally just call out for people in LFG and /map. They don't have highly-publicized calendars.

Beside that there is nothing challenging about the fights itself as you are trying to make it seem like. It's the usual stuff, spread evenly among the marks, cc and dmg.That's what I said: it's not that challenging mechanically. It really is a matter of organizing people. And that turns out to be incredibly difficult when a large chunk of people are new each time.

This isn't fractal 99 cm or 100 cm in which you really have to understand the various mechanics. Neither is it a raid boss. It's just a meta that rarely gets played - and the reason for it is its cc bars.In fact, in every meta, a core group does need to understand the mechanics. In commonly-successful ones, that core group exists without training, because people have reason to return again & again. In SI, there's no such reason, so it's much harder to succeed because one has to start from scratch each time.

But I do have a good reason. Read again.

@Clyan.1593 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Clyan.1593 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Clyan.1593 said:My run was well organized as I said,How was it actually organized? I've seen commanders do a stellar job of rounding up people, without taking responsibility for ensuring that folks know what skills to bring and when to use them. Also important in that fight is positioning, something that also gets neglected.

although I precicley explained how to do it.Would you share with us the explanation? I've seen some that are technically accurate but not helpful to someone unfamiliar with the mechanics beforehand.

Even if you have seen many people do it, the event is almost ignored every time I go the map.This is true.

Compared to other metas this one is fairly low populated because of its difficulty.No, it's really not that much harder than Octovine or Dragon's Stand. What's different is that people have succeeded feel little reason to return. There's no amazingly-valuable reward like an infusion or special weapon, it's not required for earning map currency, there are other sources of mosaics, and it's certainly not needed for important, repeat collections.

Everytime someone goes to the forum complaining about a certain issue, people like you show up and tell them the most impossible things like you telling me now you have "seen" squads doing it with only 20 people just to raise a counter point. It's rediculous at least.Unless you think people are making this up or faking videos, it absolutely happens. I more commonly see big zergs, organized by one of the major challenging-meta-communities. But I've also participated with less-famous guilds, who literally just call out for people in LFG and /map. They don't have highly-publicized calendars.

Beside that there is nothing challenging about the fights itself as you are trying to make it seem like. It's the usual stuff, spread evenly among the marks, cc and dmg.That's what I said: it's not that challenging mechanically. It really is a matter of organizing people. And that turns out to be incredibly difficult when a large chunk of people are new each time.

This isn't fractal 99 cm or 100 cm in which you really have to understand the various mechanics. Neither is it a raid boss. It's just a meta that rarely gets played - and the reason for it is its cc bars.In fact, in every meta, a core group does need to understand the mechanics. In commonly-successful ones, that core group exists without training, because people have reason to return again & again. In SI, there's no such reason, so it's much harder to succeed because one has to start from scratch each time.

And those that you disagree with could also have good reason as well. That’s what I was getting at.

@Maikimaik.1974 said:No. If it's hard, keep it hard. If it's easy, keep it easy.

If only I could give two thumbs up. This was hilarious, I literally laughed out loud, only bc it so perfectly encapsulates so many responses on the forums that assume the status quo is the best of all possible worlds, blithely unconcerned with how or whether something should be improved lol . . .

For my part I'm blithely unconcerned with the serpent's ire meta, so I have no opinion . . .

They could fix it by removing cc phase its the problem really