What is the most tacical class — Guild Wars 2 Forums

What is the most tacical class

Let me start with explaining the difference between stategy and tactic..

Strategy is an overall goal, and defines every decision you make,
while tactics is the moment-to-moment decision-making that helps you reach that goal.

So basically i am looking for the class/build that requires the most moment to moment decision making..
So which one do you think this is?
And why?

Comments

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The most tactical class is Shadow Abyss ;)

    The more serious answer is it depends. Group composition, skill, content and possibly role are all factors in that.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Warrior.
    Want something done, get a warrior.
    Want it done right, play a warrior.

    Warrior is like the duct tape of this game

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Warrior.
    Want something done, get a warrior.
    Want it done right, play a warrior.

    Warrior is like the duct tape of this game

    Ranger's better. :p

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Warrior.
    Want something done, get a warrior.
    Want it done right, play a warrior.

    Warrior is like the duct tape of this game

    Ranger's better. :p

    Warriors' betterder ;)

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • KeoLegend.5132KeoLegend.5132 Member ✭✭✭

    Mesmer, by far

    1. Mesmer
    2. Elementalist

    Characters: Iiri Ventari, Sylvari - Scourge; Ralistu, Asura - Mirage; Olaf Sifhalla, Norn - Dragonhunter; Jahin Vabb, Sylvari - Renegade; Shonek Alcazia, Human - Weaver (Tempest soonish).
    Backburner: Englaka, Asura - Ranger. Ikotag, Charr - Thief

  • Ranger since you must plan out. Theif for stealth. Engi for its complex rotations

  • Airdive.2613Airdive.2613 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I say roll:

    • either elementalist for different skill combos which need to be executed precisely and quickly
    • or mesmer/thief to experience a lot of deadly situations where missing your timings slightly can hurt a lot.
  • Scud.5067Scud.5067 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2018

    Elementalist over Mesmer, for sure. Mesmer has too many saftey options. With elementalist, you can only play better or die.

  • Amaranthe.3578Amaranthe.3578 Member ✭✭✭

    Mesmer and Thief

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Moment to moment decision making largely applies to ele since it requires changing on the fly with attunements, each of which bring diff things to a fight as and when needed. There is an argument Revenant falls into this too, although im more inclined to believe that falls more under your strategy definition.

    Thief would be my other pick. You live by the moment or you die by the moment

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Depends if you are in pve or pvp. In pve definitly mesmer. People say ele because it has the widest range of skills, but in pve you are still gunna be doing the same rotation over and over. Mesmer at least will vary its skill usage to fit the content its doing.

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    Engineer comes with a lot of options to adjust your build. When doing fractals or other difficult content, I often end up adjusting my traits for each situation. It depends if I need more speed, condition-cleanse, damage-output, defensive-abilities, group-support. The more you know about the class, the more possibilities you have. However this great flexibility comes with a good price, not many are willing to pay. It is not like with e.g. Thief where every option you pick drastically increases your damage output. Every decision with the engineer build is a trade-off. Don't get me wrong, thief is an awesome class and a superior damage dealer. It has a lot of tactics-elements, also because every wrong step is probably your last.

    When it comes to in-combat-flexibility I stick to engineer, no other class gives me more freedom and flexibility in combat. About the price: As long as you do not play a Hollowsmith, your dps is average at best. And the effort/result ratio is one of the worst in the game. When a bossfight takes 20 minutes or longer, I often end up with an excruciating wrist pain. I survive, and my party does as well.

  • Dreamy Lu.3865Dreamy Lu.3865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I tend to believe that all caster classes (elem, mesmer, necro and their respective elites), due to their light armors, are the ones requiring the most to be able for fast response, meaning immediate and correct decision on next move. It's a matter of surviving. If they cannot react fast and appropriate, they are dead. As simple as that. The light armor does not protect enough.

    I'm out of my mind, feel free to leave a message...

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Id say thief.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    All classes have somethin.
    My personal view for Armor types. Heavy Guard/Rev (Guard cuz low hp so you need to be aware, Rev have mana and cooldowns so you need to be aware of good spening)
    Light Elementalist (Mesmer has lot more options but "harder" to play is definetly Ele)
    Medium I need to say Thief(I dont have Engi yet! but I believe its most complex of them all).

    Jokaurene

  • Noha.3749Noha.3749 Member ✭✭✭

    most proactive and tactical profession imo is thief (except deadeye which is cheese).
    You dont have the stats to stick in melee and need topnotch reflexes to do well versus anything. You gotta think ahead and adapt to every situation instead of going for same old rotations all the time.

    I see alot of comments about engineer and elementalist, but they are way more reactive than proactive. More about mastering a few rotations during the right time than having perfect timing and momentum to execute your combo.

    Mesmer isnt really hard neither. Kind of the same deal, you dump alot of abilities in a short amount of time to deal damage then end up dancing around the battle until your CDs are back up.

    Mesmer, Engi, Elem for strategy and rotations.
    Thief for tactics and momentum.

  • Carighan.6758Carighan.6758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:
    At the risk of sounding like an overtly patronizing fatcat: All of them. The very mature of combat is a tactical endeavor.

    At the risk of being run out the door, I'd respectfully say that GW2's combat is incredibly shallow and frankly not worth a tiny fraction of the hype it usually gets.

    It feels tactical comparing many other MMORPGs. At first. But then once I realized that it's too fiddly to viably communicate via typing in chat during combat, I realized that for a combat system which expects me to invest 110% of my attention into driving it, it's really lame. Comparing WoW's or FF14's combat system they are far worse, but they are slow enough to allow communication mid-fight, which in turn brings the whole social-centric-gaming experience together in the first place. That is to say, they give me something else to do during combat, and something I'd honestly rather be doing because even at their peak, MMO combat systems are always bad.

    But back to the question at hand: In theory Mesmer should fit the bill, being a class billed all for deception and misguidance. However they don't actually play like that. I would argue Thief fits the bill however. Picking good moment-to-moment options, knowing when and how far to retreat, those are all important with thieves.

  • Gehenna.3625Gehenna.3625 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think tactics is about using what you have to achieve a goal. So it's the player that needs to be tactical. When you talk about tactical weapons it's about short range or localized effects. All classes do that. It also depends on the circumstances. So for example there is a big difference between solo and group content. And then it comes down to the combat encounter itself.

    I remember the end boss in Twilight Arbor. Lots of people would be doing all sorts of jumping around and stuff. I would walk up a slop and park my character on a plant thing that was sticking out (just left after entering the room) and basically put on auto-attack for the entire fight. Tactically that was the best option and I could just sit back and enjoy my drink while it happened.

    An extreme example but the point is that tactics depend a lot on the player and the circumstances of the combat encounter. Does the opponent have insta-kill effects? Does it do dots? Does it have knock backs? Stuns?

    Personally I do a lot of open world stuff like map completion, events and world bosses if you will. So my guardian has a GS and staff or longbow and all celestial gear. This is because it makes my toon versatile. I have ranged and melee ability. I have healing, a couple of gap closers, etc. I kill a bit slower but I still do ok dps but my heals are also better and defensively I can take a bit more. That fits my style. When gathering the first hit against my guardian is usually blocked. That means I can mount still after taking the first hit so I can move out of combat to go to the next node rather than having to waste time in combat.

    Other people do things differently for different reasons. So tactics also depend on what you want to achieve and then you can find the ways to achieve it.

    "In my experience, if you can't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say. The details are everything." ~ Minister Durano

  • Nath Forge Tempete.1645Nath Forge Tempete.1645 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2018

    So ... basically the main opinion is that elementalist is the hardest class (or the class with the most versatility) to play in term of combat reaction (almost no stand-alone save button) but still It doesnt reward you cause it deals less dmg than any other class on a one specific alone. No big number.... just plenty of average numbers which requires you to land all those to work (fine in pve but pvp ... bleh)

    Scepter Fresh air is fun to play in spvp but you really need to be godmode and be ready to run for your life. Got 3 rangers +1 warrior chasing me for the entire match (still managed to win tho) but gosh it was an unfunny game.

  • Ardid.7203Ardid.7203 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Engie multi kit no rotation builds. Tipically core:
    You have a lot of skills to use, you need to combo them, yet you can't rely on a repetitive pattern like most other classes.

  • @lordbachus.6091 said:
    Let me start with explaining the difference between stategy and tactic..

    Strategy is an overall goal, and defines every decision you make,
    while tactics is the moment-to-moment decision-making that helps you reach that goal.

    So basically i am looking for the class/build that requires the most moment to moment decision making..
    So which one do you think this is?
    And why?

    The Guardians elite specialization "Dragonhunter". It's good at all ranges and has varying attacks and combos which are situational.

  • lordbachus.6091lordbachus.6091 Member ✭✭
    edited October 16, 2018

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Moment to moment decision making largely applies to ele since it requires changing on the fly with attunements, each of which bring diff things to a fight as and when needed. There is an argument Revenant falls into this too, although im more inclined to believe that falls more under your strategy definition.

    Well i tought this to, untill i realised that you only have so few skills available in real time..
    The engineer has almost all its abilities (even in kits) real time available.. because there is no cooldown when switching..

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Ranger since you must plan out. Theif for stealth. Engi for its complex rotations

    Actually thats all strategy and notmtactical. Its planning things out..and performing a predetirmined rotation..
    I don’t see any realtime decision making

    @Carighan.6758 said:

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:
    At the risk of sounding like an overtly patronizing fatcat: All of them. The very mature of combat is a tactical endeavor.

    It feels tactical comparing many other MMORPGs. At first. But then once I realized that it's too fiddly to viably communicate via typing in chat during combat, I realized that for a combat system which expects me to invest 110% of my attention into driving it, it's really lame. Comparing WoW's or FF14's combat system they are far worse, but they are slow enough to allow communication mid-fight, which in turn brings the whole social-centric-gaming experience together in the first place. That is to say, they give me something else to do during combat, and something I'd honestly rather be doing because even at their peak, MMO combat systems are always bad.

    You sound old scool like me.. but even i got used to voice chat, making the need to type fairly non existant in groups..
    So the abillity to chat with companions is not really part of the realtime decision making anymore

    I currently am playing ele, rev and engi..
    Also have thief, ranger and guard..
    All max level and reasoably geared..

    Ranger and guard feel less tactical to me..
    Thief used to be my favorite..
    Yet i don’t like deadeye.. and love support buils, so i am saving my thief hoping for next expansion..

    The other 3 are quite close and much tactical fun..
    As long as younstay away from the meta builds..

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    you can't really have much tactics if you never use any strategy.
    that said, play a necro (reaper) and you can survive most encounters, they have, in fact, 3 health pools.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Warrior.
    Want something done, get a warrior.
    Want it done right, play a warrior.

    Warrior is like the duct tape of this game

    Warrior is the exact opposite of OP's definition of tactical. Warrior requires almost zero moment-to-moment decision making, which is why it is the most new-player friendly profession in all modes.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • I'd say thief. power Rev only for pvp.

  • fixit.7189fixit.7189 Member ✭✭✭

    I would suggest Elementalist: very complex game play + if you go beserker/dps, one small little bitty mistake will result in death.

  • In PvE everything is so easy all that matters is dps. A class won't feel tactical unless you're playing PvP because there's competition forcing you to use your skills in a better way.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Warrior.
    Want something done, get a warrior.
    Want it done right, play a warrior.

    Warrior is like the duct tape of this game

    Warrior is the exact opposite of OP's definition of tactical. Warrior requires almost zero moment-to-moment decision making, which is why it is the most new-player friendly profession in all modes.

    as a warrior you're constantly moving, (if you stand still, you're being a target, not a warrior)
    you have to time your CC with the enemies attacks, and your dodges inbetween.
    all in all, the warrior has some of the most fluent, action-based combat of all classes.

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2018

    I believe Engi is the class you are looking for; it has a significant number of options to do things, it has the most access to respond to almost any situation you encounter.

    I was going to say Ele, but based on the black or white nature of elements, I don't think it has the flexibility to be as 'tactical' as an Engi does. Revenant might be good too, again, less choices and less flexible than Engi.

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Warrior.
    Want something done, get a warrior.
    Want it done right, play a warrior.

    Warrior is like the duct tape of this game

    Warrior is the exact opposite of OP's definition of tactical. Warrior requires almost zero moment-to-moment decision making, which is why it is the most new-player friendly profession in all modes.

    as a warrior you're constantly moving, (if you stand still, you're being a target, not a warrior)
    you have to time your CC with the enemies attacks, and your dodges inbetween.
    all in all, the warrior has some of the most fluent, action-based combat of all classes.

    That doesn't make it 'tactical' though.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In solo play, I would definately recommend Rev - it is a jack of all master of none class where the effectiveness varies based on how well you use your toolkit.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Warrior.
    Want something done, get a warrior.
    Want it done right, play a warrior.

    Warrior is like the duct tape of this game

    Warrior is the exact opposite of OP's definition of tactical. Warrior requires almost zero moment-to-moment decision making, which is why it is the most new-player friendly profession in all modes.

    as a warrior you're constantly moving, (if you stand still, you're being a target, not a warrior)
    you have to time your CC with the enemies attacks, and your dodges inbetween.
    all in all, the warrior has some of the most fluent, action-based combat of all classes.

    Warrior doesn't time it's CC with enemy attacks, not in competitive modes. It uses CC on cooldown to try to set up it's own damage. It is the easiest profession to learn and "master" with by far the lowest skill floor and ceiling. I'm not saying that it's not fun to play, it's definitely fun to not have to worry about awareness and reaction for a while. But if you want a profession that requires thought the you'll have to play something like Ele/Weaver, Thief/Daredevil. Those professions are only effective if played with awareness and strategic proactive nature along with quick reaction to respond to incoming threats. If they mess up once, bam, over half their health bar is gone.

    The difference between a bad Ele/Thief and a good Ele/Thief is astronomical. The difference between a bad Warrior and a good Warrior is negligible.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Trise.2865Trise.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2018

    That's not really a question anyone can answer for you. You're the one making decisions and considering what is decision vs automation. Most people don't even think about decisions and choices mid-stream, and therefore would be unable to parse that data.

    It seems what you're asking about is complexity. Angular complexity, in this specific case, refers to the number of viable moves at any given moment. Its counterpart is linear complexity, the number of choices in context to each other (different combo chains, rotations, etc.). It is important to note that, in most cases, available complexity is dependent more on specific build than profession. However,

    If you're looking for maximum overall complexity, I recommend an Elementalist-Weaver, usually wielding Daggers or Dagger/Focus, or most Mesmer builds.
    If you're looking for maximum angular complexity, I recommend a kit-based Engineer, any other Elementalist, or a Thief-Daredevil.
    If you're looking for maximum linear complexity, I recommend a Revenant, Ranger, or Thief-Deadeye.

    If we want ANet to step up their game, then we must step up ours.

  • Ardid.7203Ardid.7203 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2018

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Warrior.
    Want something done, get a warrior.
    Want it done right, play a warrior.

    Warrior is like the duct tape of this game

    Warrior is the exact opposite of OP's definition of tactical. Warrior requires almost zero moment-to-moment decision making, which is why it is the most new-player friendly profession in all modes.

    as a warrior you're constantly moving, (if you stand still, you're being a target, not a warrior)
    you have to time your CC with the enemies attacks, and your dodges inbetween.
    all in all, the warrior has some of the most fluent, action-based combat of all classes.

    IMO that can be said of any profession. All have to move constantly, all need to time their skills, all need to dodge attacks. Maybe Mirage can be consider different since they don't really dodge, or Scourge since they have so much AoE...

    I'm not an expert, but after thinking about this, those profession that interrupt skills a lot, they can't be played with a predefined pattern. If I'm right, that could affect specially the Spellbreaker, (Which IS a warrior, indeed). Maybe that can be considered "tactical", or at least compare with the level of "living right now" that Engie reaches.

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    GW1 mesmer was the epitome of a tactical class; I can't really think of anything in GW2 that isn't just different weightings of offense vs. defense, despite looking for a while.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Warrior.
    Want something done, get a warrior.
    Want it done right, play a warrior.

    Warrior is like the duct tape of this game

    Warrior is the exact opposite of OP's definition of tactical. Warrior requires almost zero moment-to-moment decision making, which is why it is the most new-player friendly profession in all modes.

    as a warrior you're constantly moving, (if you stand still, you're being a target, not a warrior)
    you have to time your CC with the enemies attacks, and your dodges inbetween.
    all in all, the warrior has some of the most fluent, action-based combat of all classes.

    I don’t time my CC with enemy attacks, not in competitive modes. It uses CC on cooldown to try to set up it's own damage. It is the easiest profession to learn and "master" with by far the lowest skill floor and ceiling. I'm not saying that it's not fun to play, it's definitely fun to not have to worry about awareness and reaction for a while. But if you want a profession that requires thought the you'll have to play something like Ele/Weaver, Thief/Daredevil. Those professions are only effective if played with awareness and strategic proactive nature along with quick reaction to respond to incoming threats. If they mess up once, bam, over half their health bar is gone.

    The difference between a bad Ele/Thief and a good Ele/Thief is astronomical. The difference between when I play good or bad is neglible.

    I fixed your comment, you were confused about your behavior being the baseline for all warriors

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Rhyse.8179Rhyse.8179 Member ✭✭✭

    None of them are anything close to what I would consider "tactical." GW2 is too much of an action game. You design your build, and you react to the immediate situation based on the strengths and weaknesses of that build. Whatever tactical components GW2 does have take place before combat starts. Where to engage, how far away are your allies, assessing the enemy and their reinforcements before choosing to engage, etc. All of those things apply equally to every class though. Once you're in combat, it's basically just a twitch game.

  • *Tactical : P

    Anyways, Warrior hands down.

  • In my opinion, Thief is the most tactical class, and it's mostly because of their unique resource for primary skill use, initiative.

    Unlike other classes, Thieves aren't bound to typical skill rotations based on skill cooldowns. Instead, they have a resource management system that encourages more critical thinking with regards to which skill to activate and when. This allows them to adjust on the fly, but also punishes them for reckless spamming. While I do agree that a lot of other classes have great versatility (like ele, etc), the existence of cooldowns does limit your ability to make on the spot decisions when circumstances change (you can't suddenly decide to use that 30 second cooldown skill again if you just cast it 10 seconds ago), and most play styles inevitably get funneled towards the most efficient skill rotations based around the cooldowns of each needed skill in that rotation. While thieves also have rotations for maximum damage efficiency in a PvE setting, I feel they are able to break out of that mold more easily or adjust more flexibly when needed because of the lack of cooldowns on weapon skills (e.g. need to remove the enemy's break bar fast because your party lacks CC? Just spam the same CC weapon skill multiple times, etc).

    When you also factor in thief's squishiness and it's reliance on positioning for both survival and damage, as well as its use of stealth and tricks/traps, I think that overall, it is a class that encompasses the theme of tactical play you're hinting at quite holistically.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2018

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    I purposely edited your quoted response to sound edgy, because I can't actually refute what you were saying...

    I fixed your comment, you seemed to have forgot your argument.

    There's no need to be so defensive. It's common knowledge that Warrior is the easiest to play profession. You must not play much competitive modes if you think that stuns on Warrior are used to actively interrupt specific enemy player abilities. Go watch literally any warrior play high tier sPvP or WvW Roaming. You will not find a Full Counter, Shield Bash, or Bull's Charge used to actively interrupt someone on purpose. Shield Bash and Bull's charge are gap closers that have a long activation time. Activation times that are longer than it takes for an enemy to finish casting a skill already in progress... Full Counter is used as a defense, not an active interrupt, as it requires the skill being cast to finish being casted before Full Counter even activates.
    Oh no, facts!

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

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