Buff Thief

Consider some form of these.

• Reduce cost for Shortbow 5 to 4 initiative, add evade into it, or grant 2 secs of superspeed at the end

• Make Preparedness baseline. Give us some options.

• signet of agility should also give 5 secs of vigor

• put the stability back on daggerstorm, too many things pass through this 4 second evade frame that is not a game changer.

• remove exhaustion from unhindered combatant.

if our damage is to be so weak, and our sustain too, then no other class should even be close to us in mobility,

yet there are a few that come to mind:

holomiragebirdie SB

Herald if chasing

all those that I just mentioned have comparable mobility, but have so much more to bring to the table (except maybe the herald)

I don't care if all the other classes stay the same, but let's make thief the #1 decap and +1'er in the biz

Shortbow is quite fine as it is imo. The only thing that puzzles me is that it doesn't really seem 900 range, but less. I will rather extend the range, but not reduce the cost (or you could use it 3-4 times in a row and it would be too unfair if other players are chasing you). Currently a mesmer could escape faster than us, without wasting a weapon slot for that.I cried a lot when they nerfed unhindered combatant, now I'm quite used to it. You must also give a way to other classes to deal with running thieves, or they would complain too much. I'd just buff a bit the damage. Many other classes are able to provide the same burst damage than a thief, taking less damage/without having to worry too much about telegraph/evade (see guardians).Stability on dagger storm: ok for pve, but in pvp it was fair to remove it. Maybe the cooldown could be slightly reduced, as trade off.

@Urud.4925 said:Shortbow is quite fine as it is imo. The only thing that puzzles me is that it doesn't really seem 900 range, but less. I will rather extend the range, but not reduce the cost (or you could use it 3-4 times in a row and it would be too unfair if other players are chasing you). Currently a mesmer could escape faster than us, without wasting a weapon slot for that.It's bad when your getting high/unstable ping, it will only go 1/2-3/4 the distance (but this also happens on skills from other classes with certain leaps/charges). I also believe it is fine as is, though I am 50/50 about a range change.

Although it was nice having stab on daggerstorm, I feel that having it removed gave people some chance against it so I think it was fair.I'm not sure about removing exhaustion mechanic from unhindered combatant, maybe slice 1s or so from the exhaustion or add some other beneficial effect to it, nothing big though, just something additional that helps you barely survive which I think would be fair.

Our dmg isn't low, not even on spvp standards, it's that everything else apart from Herald and power mesmer have a lot of dmg reduction goodies loaded onto their class.

I dunno if this is a troll post or not, but yes to these, no to the rest.

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

• Make Preparedness baseline. Give us some options.
• remove exhaustion from unhindered combatant.

Or at least make the exhaustion only apply if we break an immobilize. Not Cripple or Chill which farted out by any passerby.

@"Turk.5460" said:I dunno if this is a troll post or not, but yes to these, no to the rest.

Nope. I am serious.

Always ask for buff, never be satisfied. If you are reasonable, your class will get shelved.

While we are buffing thief, let's undo all the melee weapon reductions for the last 14 months.

Also, make vault peak out at 20% higher.

Increase range on shortbow five to 1200, we boost it with "shadow magic"...that's a popular idea right now...shadow magic

Preparedness really does need to be baseline so that when the devs mess around with a skills Initiative cost as a bandaid to a current problem it doesn't funnel people back into a trait line. I'm not sure on the rest of OP, especially shortbow, I feel like that weapon performs exactly as it should when it needs to be used and with how well it can combo with dodge, jump, other skills, etc I might not want the mechanics of that weapon to be messed around with.

I don't want stability on dagger storm, as they still need a way to get to you.

Im fine with Infiltrator Arrow costing 5. As you have complete control over where you are going, and it is quite powerful.

Preparedness does need to be baseline, as it sucks having to take it just so you aren't stuck in the mud.

Id like a buff to the utils, or at least a rework on most of them, as a lot aren't as useful as many other classes

All of the traps suck in most cases. For the tiny area they cover, they aren't as powerful as some of the things a dragon hunter or ranger may have.Activation for caltrops is a little too long for thr short duration they stay.Scorpion Wire as useful as it can be, is riddled with bugs.The passive for infiltrator signet is not worth a pitcher of urine.The new behavior of shadow refuge is annoying when you're not trying to get aoed to hell.

NERF Malicious Backstab and give us decent damage on Dagger AA.The DE changes to the stealth attacks ruined core thief weapons.

Nerf Everything. All the classes. Including Thief.

increase the velocity of infiltrators arrow so that you shadow step to the location faster upon using the skillIncrease dagger aa damage in pvp/wvw as the last nerf was total bsmake the thief able to move (even at a reduced speed) during pistol whip sword swingingincrease the speed of staff aa chain, in particular punishing strikes need to be faster (reduce the reflect duration to match the new animation duration obviously)increase the speed and role-back distance of Debilitating Arc such that you actually create some distance between the opponent and yourselfredesign the function of p/d if d/d is the defacto condi weapon set.nerf the damage bonus per malice for malicious backstabincrease the reveal time death's judgement applies

Uh, p/d is actually the best condi weapon set. It’s just people who love high evade uptime with a sacrifice to mobility who take D/D.

On topic, I think the main issue facing thief is that some aspects of other professions are difficult to fight against as a thief. Whether it is block/heal/barrier/evade/invuln there are a lot of abilities preventing all damage from being applied of making even a burst of damage feel useless unless it is a one shot.

I don’t think the issue is exclusive to thief. What I notice on thief is the relative lack of counterplay unless you run a perma evade or perma stealth build. That isn’t to say thief can’t handle itself in many cases but the trend is especially pronounced because outside of perma stealth or evade thief is fairly vulnerable. I don’t count “ability to run away” here because no WvW/pvp is won just by running away.

Now I’m not sure “more damage” is the answer. We have plenty of damage if you build for it. We also have been making the preparedness argument for a long time to no avail. What we got instead was initiative regen abilities in DE so I think that change won’t happen.

We only really need a few buffs to underused utilities. And a few adjustments to the distribution of damage on a few weapons. And nerfs to overperforming professions.

@"saerni.2584" said:...I don’t count “ability to run away” here because no WvW/pvp is won just by running away.

But...but...but...what else will people blame their loss on? Isn't it obvious that those "Thief resets" were the reason they lost? Because all of their cooldowns are 4 minutes long, but the Thieves' are only 13 seconds each!

yes buff thief

I am confused about this post really, but sure buff thief 15k+ backstab and perma stealth is kinda weak, one suggestion i can make, lets make a trait that gives one stack from every boon in the game if you spend initiative BUT let that trait have a icd of 2 sec because we dont want to make thief broken

@Nepster.4275 said:I am confused about this post really, but sure buff thief 15k+ backstab and perma stealth is kinda weak, one suggestion i can make, lets make a trait that gives one stack from every boon in the game if you spend initiative BUT let that trait have a icd of 2 sec because we dont want to make thief broken

15k+ backstab is not so easy in SPvP. Maybe can work against new/bad players, and its probably easier in wvw, but that stuff don't fly in SPvP.

Perma stealth sounds like DE, but good ole core can do it too, but that is pretty impractical outside roaming in hunt of daily grabbing noob squads.

In a practical sense regarding SPvP, some core aspects of thief need a buff.

If you are playing on mirage and having trouble with thief, you are bad or the thief is vastly superior.

Pound for Pound thief may not even be the best at decapping anymore.

+1 is a fake role made up in this online game only because people refused to adapt to thief, cry for nerfs instead. Now the sustain damage for targets above 50% health is all but gone.

a real thief would be gank and spank, then while you are down, kick you in the balls.

@saerni.2584 said:Uh, p/d is actually the best condi weapon set. It’s just people who love high evade uptime with a sacrifice to mobility who take D/D.

On topic, I think the main issue facing thief is that some aspects of other professions are difficult to fight against as a thief. Whether it is block/heal/barrier/evade/invuln there are a lot of abilities preventing all damage from being applied of making even a burst of damage feel useless unless it is a one shot.

I don’t think the issue is exclusive to thief. What I notice on thief is the relative lack of counterplay unless you run a perma evade or perma stealth build. That isn’t to say thief can’t handle itself in many cases but the trend is especially pronounced because outside of perma stealth or evade thief is fairly vulnerable. I don’t count “ability to run away” here because no WvW/pvp is won just by running away.

Now I’m not sure “more damage” is the answer. We have plenty of damage if you build for it. We also have been making the preparedness argument for a long time to no avail. What we got instead was initiative regen abilities in DE so I think that change won’t happen.

We only really need a few buffs to underused utilities. And a few adjustments to the distribution of damage on a few weapons. And nerfs to overperforming professions.

Kind of. I think you're the closest of anyone in this thread, though.

Initiative regeneration as a concept over baseline Improv is fine, and is something I suggested they do instead for a while now. It just needs to be more accessible to core. And to all the traitlines.

The problem is it's put solely on an elite spec and it's given in way too high a quantity for that one spec that it makes for a very delicate game of balancing things. Upper Hand, Rejuv and Kleptomancy aren't problematic traits at all (I think UH should be on-dodge or on-weapon-skill-dodge though) and play into the recovery theme well (though honestly I think Klepto would be better if it operated on a .5s delay, making for steal-engages with max initiative + skill use recover initiative, but have no effect gained on sub-max initiative in the midst of a precast (BP+HS+backstab comes to mind) due to animation locking. More traitlines need something to this effect to give the thief the ability to stay in combat longer, rather than rely on spammed defenses. It's why those builds are good - because nothing dies, and they offer the thief required sustain now that mobility is not enough to play with alone.

Distribution of damage doesn't really need to happen either, though. What would that suggest? Nerf D/D, S/P, and P/P for... what exactly? All three of these kits aren't competitive and PvE is going to be min-maxed regardless. No, better distribution of utility needs to occur more than anything, since essential damaging skills are pretty well-placed right now with each set having pretty good access to damage as far as the sheer numbers are concerned. P/D is weak on power, but it's a condition setup; so is scepter on power reaper/mesmer

The thief (NOT Deadeye) overall from a Edit: concept design perspective is pretty solid though (Daredevil is poorly-designed still but within reason since its nerfs; UC needs to be changed however). It's just the rest of the game is so overtuned right now it feels weak because by relative power in the numbers, it is. It's why really skilled thieves still perform decently, but why victories feel more like a grind than making outplays or really doing as the class would imply - taking initiative.

Very little can be done to the thief without breaking it. The problems lies in other professions and several game-wide mechanics, and until they properly deal with them, thief is going to remain in the positions of being overpowered/cheese/underpowered, unless they rework the entirety of the thief into a completely new class.

Which of course probably wouldn't go over too well.

These skills would be so overstacked.

As far as thief Utilities go the majority are not in a bad place. They require a few nudges or tweaks which includes everything from Lower cooldowns and certain ones and just FIXING issues with things like Scorpion wire.

A thief is probably more reliant on their utilities than any other profession. This because when INI used up a Utility is all they got other then spamming dodges or stacking stealth. This unlike other professions that can cycle through two weaponsets picking out a suitable skill off cooldown. This is one thing other professions do not understand, that being that when a thief ports sway or stealths or dodges , it very often the ONLY thing the thief can do at the time due to resource limitations.

This IS the price Thief pays for being able to spam a skill.

One of the worst things they can do to a theif weapon skill because it deemed OP is INCREASE Ini cost. This bad all round because it forces more builds into the ones allowing more INI access and further limits the number of skills one can use on a given weaponset. In P/P as example when INI boosted on Unload this just means less use of 2 , 4 and 5 simply because THOSE do not do damage and the thief can not afford to shut down his damage in order to use those skills. My experience on P/P since changes is where i DID use 2 , 4 and 5 prior time to time, i never use them now.

Daggera Storm is insanely stupid rn and dnot need buff. It need nerf tbh. Its not fun to play with or against. It could have ammo system

@Safandula.8723 said:Daggera Storm is insanely stupid rn and dnot need buff. It need nerf tbh. Its not fun to play with or against. It could have ammo system

this is not true. ds was just fine with stability. maybe if they would have increased the cast time so it can be interupted that would give some interesting advantage against it. but taking stability away from it was just stupid. thief doesnt even get stability from his own skills. nowhere. so why would they take our only stability Elite away? Only explanation would be that ppl would simply only choose DS and not IS or TG or whatever else because of this. but taking stability away was bad move.

@Safandula.8723 said:Daggera Storm is insanely stupid rn and dnot need buff. It need nerf tbh. Its not fun to play with or against. It could have ammo system

90 second cooldown. It fine. Utilities that need an adjust are things like :

Scorpion wire FIX the pullShadowtrap Lower cooldown 5 seconds make port more reliable.Ambush trap Lower cooldownTripwire Lower cooldown.SOM Add +3 INI on activation 15 percent boost to active heal.Infiltrators signet lower ICDDevourer Venom Lower ICDIce drake venom fix entirely.Thieves Guild Lower ICD

The PvP modes seems to be pushing an only solo act...maybe a duo act.

This requires many players to choose and build around classes that can 1 v X, and do it against a large variety of situations.

Why are we funneling thief into a +1 and decap only role?

Many classes can move about the maps at very comparable speeds, and they hit harder, and they have better sustain.

Some of you who say thief is fine, I honestly don't believe you even play thief, or do it anymore.

Anet nerfed exposed weakness, all melee auto attack damage (maybe not staff), impacting disruption.

Ok I can understand the nerf to UC, but the damage modifies and damage nerfs need to be undone. Or let ID crit, let steal crit.

Increase auto attack speed.

If thieves are not to be high damage, it needs to be fast.

Buff death blossom, increase the damage and coefficient, also let the player control the path of the evade.

I know that when thieves/rogues get really good at their profession, they can be oppressive as shit.

Remember when this guy did combat by trial for Tyrion? Ser Bronn of the Blackwater

He was able to win with dirty tricks ansd fighting style.

Thieves should not be automatically countered by pretty much everything. If they were not, then why is the recommendation that thief does not get home at start of match?

Plus one becomes a chore when others play classes that make it easy for them, but die before you can get there (2-3 seconds) in a match-up that should have been their's anyways.

Honestly, a players skills should be oppressive.

Don't try to funnel us into deadeye by nerfing core. We bought the game, it doesn't mean we want to play the spec. There are those that do, but it's not for all of us.

Shortbow 5 and shadowstep are not justisfication in today's game for thief to have such weak damage.

The only class mentioned as deadly in 1 v 1 in the description may if fact be the weakest at it. Those that can make it work, imagine if your hand was fair....you'd be GODS at dueling.

@bluri.2653 said:yes buff thief

Buff thief

Make teef great again