Winds of Disenchantment nerfed

Winds of Disenchantment: This skill no longer pulses the instant the spell is cast. Instead, every second after casting, the total number of pulses is reduced by 1. The duration of this skill has been split, and it will now have a 5-second duration in WvW and PvP while retaining a 10-second duration in PvE.

They're so out of touch.

Sounds good, though they could have reduced the cd a little to compensate for the duration. In fact fuck it, why not just unify PvE and WvW to 5s and reduce the cd to be the same in both modes. It's not like people are going to run it in PvE anyway, its a pure PvP/WvW skill. Sometimes I dont understand Anets unhealthy need to split everything.

@Dawdler.8521 said:Sounds good, though they could have reduced the cd a little to compensate for the duration. In fact kitten it, why not just unify PvE and WvW to 5s and reduce the cd to be the same in both modes. It's not like people are going to run it in PvE anyway, its a pure PvP/WvW skill. Sometimes I dont understand Anets unhealthy need to split everything.

Untrue. WoD has various uses in PvE content, most notably in fractals (due to No pain, No gain instability) but also some raid bosses too. Boss 3 of the new raid wing, you can coordinate WoD to skip a mechanic (provided DPS is high enough). Also very common to be used on Dhuum as well.

Long story short the skill-split in this case is justified. whether or not you agree with the nerf is a different topic.

I'm not mad at it. Just means zergs will have to practice better Winds-play rather than spamming four at the start of every engagement. Although, I guess if you're standing in one for longer than 5 seconds you'll be dead anyway. Allowing 1 second to react is a good way to defend against instant the boonstrip at the start of fights.

Finally. Sounds like a good change.

Its a hard nerf to war and weaver in wvw for sure maybe a soft nerf to rev all though that dmg is hard to boon up for one shot still a one shot lol.

@Jski.6180 said:Its a hard nerf to war and weaver in wvw for sure maybe a soft nerf to rev all though that dmg is hard to boon up for one shot still a one shot lol.

I see no ele changes lol

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Its a hard nerf to war and weaver in wvw for sure maybe a soft nerf to rev all though that dmg is hard to boon up for one shot still a one shot lol.

Ele has no boon control at all and boons are much stronger vs power dmg -33% so with out a strip ele dmg is effectually weaker. All this is going to do is make scorge meta agen because it comes with boon control. There a lot more then one skill effected when you hit big skills like this.

Even the lack of strip to deal with stab going to be a problem for ele as 1 stab strip for 10 ppl ends up causing more harm to the ele then good due to passives effects and at best its just going to remove the 1 stack of stab from 10 sec cd skill more then likely 1 stack from a 5 stack stab on a 28 sec cd lol. Its just a joke anet things less boon removal going to help the game (it was always that they stacked too much boon hate one one or 2 classes that was the problem).

When people figure out the meta and start running 4-scourges 1-firebrand per party, I will be the first to say "I told you so"

@"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:When people figure out the meta and start running 4-scourges 1-firebrand per party, I will be the first to say "I told you so"

Much prefer that tbh.

@KalasDelRio.8921 said:Allowing 1 second to react is a good way to defend against instant the boonstrip at the start of fights.

No. This skill has a long cast time, it has an incredibly huge tell, it depends on the warrior using a lot of its cooldowns to throw effectively and survive. Its not a CC, it doesnt lock you down, its a boonstrip that removes 1 boon per second. Its not like its clearing away all your boons instantly.

That part of the nerf was incredibly overkill; now it gives enemies 1 full second on top of the time telegraphed cast to get out of the way. Skill's basically useless unless you're already locked down and can't move (to which there's no point in throwing it on those enemies anyway).

It wasn't just a boon strip and it didn't just strip 1 boon per pulse when traited at least learn how the skill worked before posting about it.

Noone was using warrior in zergs practically. All this means is the 1-2 people who are being yelled at to switch to firebrand or necro by the commander are less effective. On every other class you get asked if you can switch by our commanders who are (almost) obsessed with winning. Telling.

I don't use this skill because I frankly was able to do more with rampage roaming.. but wow if this doesn't look bad knowing about the rare rationalization for low-mid skilled warriors in a group due to it. More pants on head changes.

I don't mind the 5 second nerf to it, I feel like 10 seconds might have been a little too long, so 5-7 seconds is more reasonable. But the 1 second of not stripping was a very poor change. It already takes 1.5 seconds to cast, you can see when the Warrior is casting, so what was the point of adding a 1 second wind up? If you're going to do that then make it 6 seconds.And I like how Anet thinks Warrior was the real problem in WvW. I feel like some Anet Devs was running around in WvW, got hit by a Warrior bubble or two and they were like "Whelp... this skill is OP, lets nerf it". What about Necro's Shades and their strip/corrupt? What about Firebrand pumping out boons? There's other classes that's more powerful than Warrior in WvW. The class was already in a tight spot and all this change did was push it out of group play.

@Israel.7056 said:It wasn't just a boon strip and it didn't just strip 1 boon per pulse when traited at least learn how the skill worked before posting about it.From the wiki:Disenchantment (1s): Incoming boons are immediately removed.Boons Removed: 1Number of Targets: 10Blocks MissilesDuration: 10sInterval: 1sRadius: 360Combo Field: LightningUnblockable

It strips 1 boon per second per pulse whilst negating new boons. Traited with enchantment collapse it would cause a chain reaction (again per 1s pulse); that's not the skill, that's the trait.If they wanted to tone that down, they could've applied a limit to the trait; there's no reason to delay the effect so that it doesn't do anything for 1 whole second after its cast. 1 second is a long time in this game.

The 1.5 second cast time + 1 second delay to initiate once casted is absurd. Make it a 2 second cast if you want, but the tell on that bubble is literally the biggest in the game (its a gigantic fucking bubble for christ sakes) for it to have an effective delay of 1 additional second after cast.

This won't really change anything either for the better for the worse, and like Proverbs said, it only shows that they're not read into the situation.

Mechanics:The only real issue with Winds in a WvW setting is the combination of its unique mechanic with the size of its AoE. Winds itself did not rip things quick enough to pose a problem - it becomes a problem when combined with Shade spam (at a lesser degree boon-breaking control traits that encourages you to spam CC and to an even lesser degree all other forms of rips and control).

Its unique ability is cool but wasn't really needed and came with no counterpoint. The size and the difficulty of crossing the size of the bubbles through breaks alone is the problem. Even if you break out of the initial CC the size of Winds tend to require multiple breaks to clear the AoE which in turn means that most players clear the AoE through invulnurability abilities rather than anything else when they get caught (or breaks tacked onto mobility abilities).

Behaviour:This means that while some players may pop first push to the common zerg tactics employed at the moment, most players tend to run out of buttons to use sometime around the second or third push with cooldowns skewered and playing well can't really deal with the issue - so players or full groups in that situation become much less agressive (as they are prompted to use their oh-meow buttons just to engage). Also, as per the above about what does what, even at the onset the tactic leans gameplay more towards pirateships than meleeballs to begin with. In smaller groups the issue may be consecutive Winds and hammer pressure to a larger degree but at large scale it is almost all about Shade spam under the Winds' umbrella.

As always, pirateships and very defensive or cautious gameplay is rather boring. We don't need incentives to be cowards and that sort of sizing opponents up approach tend to make the content-creators (leadership, initiators) bored far earlier than it makes the content-consumers (pickups, militia, followers) bored. That's also why the topic will continue to be debated here even though, in the creative circles, even the Warriors themselves dislike Winds' impact on the meta. TLDR, smaller AoE is the best quick way to go.

deleted

@Strages.2950 said:

@Israel.7056 said:It wasn't just a boon strip and it didn't just strip 1 boon per pulse when traited at least learn how the skill worked before posting about it.From the wiki:

Disenchantment (1s): Incoming boons are immediately removed.Boons Removed: 1Number of Targets: 10Blocks MissilesDuration: 10sInterval: 1sRadius: 360Combo Field: LightningUnblockable

Yeah it's a gigantic bubble so what? It has a big tell so what? It was also the most impactful elite in the game since pof release by a large margin for medium to large scale engagements. It was completely defining the meta for all organized play because of how powerful it was it needed to be toned down drastically.

Almost everyone runs the trait so for all intents and purposes it makes no sense to talk about the skill as if it removes 1 boon per pulse. But like I said in another thread it's not just a boon strip the boon denial is what makes it ridiculously strong.

Personally I would've left the skill as it was in terms of cd and duration but completely removed both the boon denial and the projectile hate I consider this nerf to be an odd sort of compromise but that's anet for you.

@Strages.2950 said:...It strips 1 boon per second per pulse whilst negating new boons. Traited with enchantment collapse it would cause a chain reaction (again per 1s pulse); that's not the skill, that's the trait.If they wanted to tone that down, they could've applied a limit to the trait; there's no reason to delay the effect so that it doesn't do anything for 1 whole second after its cast. 1 second is a long time in this game.

Enchantment collapse has a 1 second ICD, so it only triggers one time each pulse. No chain reaction.

@Murderous Clown.9723 said:

@Strages.2950 said:...It strips 1 boon per second per pulse whilst negating new boons. Traited with enchantment collapse it would cause a chain reaction (again per 1s pulse); that's not the skill, that's the trait.If they wanted to tone that down, they could've applied a limit to the trait; there's no reason to delay the effect so that it doesn't do anything for 1 whole second after its cast. 1 second is a long time in this game.

deleted

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Murderous Clown.9723 said:

@Strages.2950 said:...It strips 1 boon per second per pulse whilst negating new boons. Traited with enchantment collapse it would cause a chain reaction (again per 1s pulse); that's not the skill, that's the trait.If they wanted to tone that down, they could've applied a limit to the trait; there's no reason to delay the effect so that it doesn't do anything for 1 whole second after its cast. 1 second is a long time in this game.

I was making that comment purely for the intent of clearing up the misunderstanding, not to imply an opinion one way or the other on the debate. As it so happens I agree with you and am quite happy with the nerf, and I say that as a warrior main.

It never took all that much thought or skill to cast a bubble on an enemy stack and then chain the bubbles until the fight is over. Some situations had room for a little more thought than that, but mindless bubbles were still incredibly influential in a fight considering it's just one skill. Even if the enemies are able to get out of the bubble, it is still the only skill in the game that can singlehandedly force an entire group to do so on its own, and that makes it powerful still. Besides, it will still catch people if you time it right (after they have used some defensive resources rather than at the start of first push every time) and coordinate with your necros.

I had a lot of fun playing with the nerfed skill tonight, as funny as that sounds. It's a big nerf to mindless bubbles, but I was still getting a lot of use out of it.

@Israel.7056 said:

@Strages.2950 said:

@Israel.7056 said:It wasn't just a boon strip and it didn't just strip 1 boon per pulse when traited at least learn how the skill worked before posting about it.From the wiki:

Disenchantment (1s): Incoming boons are immediately removed.Boons Removed: 1Number of Targets: 10Blocks MissilesDuration: 10sInterval: 1sRadius: 360Combo Field: LightningUnblockable

Absolutely but it is one of 2 counters to the FB skills which gives resistance and retaliation the other is the scourge with his boon corruption .

The problem is the whole zerg meta is all about this becoming invulnerable and steam rolling the enemy zerg.Arena Net seem not to be too kind about this whole idea they nerfed because of this FBs 0er mantra one patch before and I agree with most of it with Arena NET.

The problem which I have with it is on one side if this meta weren't there we would pirateship a lot but with this narrow window they let open it is a good chance the whole back-line who does the pirateshipping will never make it in time under the bubble. It is I think counterable but with this the commander must run as SB the zerg must be really sticky we need possible more SBs in the zerg with called timing.

As Tempest I see also a timing problem usually when I in one of those steam roll actions I'm doing overload in it when the commander stops under the bubble even as fresh air the time is extremely short to recharge in my case wind overload which are precisely those 5 sec in the minimum case.

What I mean with this we must see but there is a chance this will create a window which is too tight for some classes to go thorough or you have some sort of split.

It's still a vital part of the meta. Placement and timing have just become more important, that's all.