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Difficulty choices for clocktower JP

I know that there are a lot of people who are having a very difficult time with the clocktower jumping puzzle, so perhaps there could be a difficulty setting similar to the wintersday jumping puzzle?

Keep the normal jumping puzzle as is for those who want a challenge, and maybe add a mode where you don't have to stop and wait for the material to explode out from the tower in certain places. Giving players who might have some issues with hand-eye coordination, ping problems or other troubles to familiarize themselves with the layout and take on the more harshly timed challenge later if so desired.

Of course you can adjust the rewards as appropriate for a lower difficulty.

<13

Comments

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Different difficulties work for the wintersday jp bc it is farmable in a way that the clocktower is not. You really only need to do it once a year . . .

  • Solvar.7953Solvar.7953 Member ✭✭✭

    Maybe 3 times a year, because you need that many for the overall achievement.
    A couple years back I got luck and had an instance all to myself for the near full time. With that, I was able to get a lot of runs in, and finally complete it (now I can do it with some regularity). What would help (and I think may be easier/more modest):
    1) Cut the number of players down per instance, so less likely to be waiting around.
    2) If there is less than 5 minutes on the clock, don't dump new players into an instance, as if there is less than 2 minutes, it won't start anyways. If I get in an instance with less than 5 minutes, I just exit and re-enter, hoping to get a better one.
    Since I believe GW2 is not running in AWS, adding scaling/more instances should be easier vs back in the day when they were running on their own servers.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:
    Different difficulties work for the wintersday jp bc it is farmable in a way that the clocktower is not. You really only need to do it once a year . . .

    I think the main thing which made adding difficulties to Wintersday jumping puzzle logical is that it already had 3 different paths through the timed section. All they had to do was adjust the timing on the snowflake platforms so one set take longer to disappear and one set take less time. Whereas the clocktower only has one path, so it would be a lot more work to change it.

    Personally I like @killermanjaro.5670's idea of a practice mode with no time limit and where you can restart immediately, so you can practice and learn the path and then get used to the timing separately.

    Although I'd suggest keeping the final jump from the stairs into the clock timed, because that is the only thing which makes that jump challenging but it takes practice to get it right and I imagine it would be even harder to learn if you'd gotten used to just running up the stairs and jumping immediately and suddenly you're faced with having to wait and catch just the right moment to get in.

    Danielle Aurorel, Desolation EU. Mini Collector

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    And you run till night is black, And keep on going in your dreams
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    It's the miles of moving forward, With the wind beneath your wings"

  • Urud.4925Urud.4925 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2018

    I managed to complete it (3 times so far, still 12 to go for the full achievements... ) at my second year. I have nothing against difficult JPs, the only problem with this is that it's only available during the festival (well, 3 weeks is not a very short period of time, but still, not spammable as you wish, if you want to practice). In general I prefer to have difficult achievements outside of festivals, but we also had the Crown Pavilion, and I didn't complain because I haven't been able to defeat Turai Ossa and missed a good bunch of AP.

    Maybe we could reduce the waiting time a bit, as @killermanjaro.5670 said. If you are still learning how to jump, it's boring to wait until the honored in applied jumps reaches the top and opens the chest. I spent a whole night (from 23 o' clock to 6 in the morning) to get the gold in the Scrap Rifle Field Test, just because I could easily restart if I mistook something, so it was basically all playing time. With 7 hours inside this JP, most of the time would be waiting time, if you keep failing the first part (the hardest one) of the JP.

    Anyway, ArenaNet did a good job with the Raceaway and with the new 50 AP achievement that only requires 9/10. We are talking about an old JP after all. Maybe they will also change it, maybe not, but so far I'm pleased with their decisions for this year.

  • Do you get anything from the chest if you complete it more than 1 time?

  • Urud.4925Urud.4925 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hmm, the usual trick or treat bags and 1 useless tonic (not permanent) iirc. It's not a good instance to spam to get trick or treat bags, but there is an achievement that you can repeat to get 25 AP in total.

  • Scud.5067Scud.5067 Member ✭✭✭

    I have become one with the tower.

    Practice, practice, practice - sometimes there isn't an Option B..

  • JDub.1530JDub.1530 Member ✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    This has come up every year for 6 years and the JP has so far and prob always will be, untouched.

    Not 100% true. The JP used to have full character models. So that bulky Norn or Charr would obstruct your view. Since year 2 everyone else just appears as a wisp. You probably knew that, but a nice historical fun fact for everyone. :D

  • DaFishBob.6518DaFishBob.6518 Member ✭✭✭

    I was thinking the other day that it'd be great to just have a practice instance available or maybe a version that's just strictly timed without that rising tide taking people away so that even if there's no hope of reaching the top in time, you could still practice the area you got stuck on instead of waiting around doing nothing. Of course no loot boxes along the way in the strictly timed version!

  • Swamurabi.7890Swamurabi.7890 Member ✭✭✭

    I remember when the clocktower was first released and everyone hated running it if there were fat norns and charr in the group. Also everyone ran it armorless so you could see where your feet landed, that is if you were well ahead in first and didn't have to see through all the other players. It's one of a very small number of achievements I'm most proud of.

  • titje.2745titje.2745 Member ✭✭✭

    don’t change it. i never made it till last year. i mostly played fps games and now more mmo so i was a noob. now a bit better. it’s practice. if there is a difficult jp then it’s sanctum scramble or what’s called for revenant ascended shield. i raged few hours and tried everything and got bronze in last second i think. because the ability’s never worked. skill 2 if i remember. wanted a nerf. didn’t get it. on youtube it looks smooth and easy. for me everything goes wrong. never worked. now halloween jp. zoom in your char so close view.

    if nerf. then nerf everything. i want title. leave no hero behind. i want so much. and no skill or interest. i can’t have everything. but i am proud with kingslayer and blazing light. that a not so skilled player like me (in mmo) got it.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2018

    @Lini.2698 said:
    I know that there are a lot of people who are having a very difficult time with the clocktower jumping puzzle, so perhaps there could be a difficulty setting similar to the wintersday jumping puzzle?

    Keep the normal jumping puzzle as is for those who want a challenge, and maybe add a mode where you don't have to stop and wait for the material to explode out from the tower in certain places. Giving players who might have some issues with hand-eye coordination, ping problems or other troubles to familiarize themselves with the layout and take on the more harshly timed challenge later if so desired.

    Of course you can adjust the rewards as appropriate for a lower difficulty.

    No achievement/collection progress but 5 ToT bags as reward if done on easy. That once a year choice box is also only available if done on normal.

  • trixantea.1230trixantea.1230 Member ✭✭✭

    I was about to make a thread like this when I tried to get the achievement. A small boost to movement speed would make it easier for many players who want to complete it.

  • Myrdreth.6829Myrdreth.6829 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2018

    Don't nerf the clock tower, BUT please: Let us play the clock tower jp solo without others players! The waiting time is the worst. And yeah, it's nice that Anet got rid of the Charr problem. But even the little blue spirits and the red name tags of the other players are distracting for me. Please please please let us enter the clock tower alone.

    edit: Oh, and I AM able to finish the JP. Got it 3 times for this year already. But because of the waiting time it wasn't really enjoyable and that's a pity. I think it's one of the best JP ingame. I love the design, I love the music, everything. I just don't understand why we are forced into groups.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Id rather they exlude the achievement from the meta if they hae to change anything.

    Its not bad to have something require abit more effort than others.

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    at least hide other players, playing a small human makes it impossible to do with a team filled with charr and norn blinking around with all kinds of effects ruining any chance of seeing anything.

    the truth is harsh, my opinions are too.

  • I doubt if I'll ever manage this one. I lack the patience to keep trying when the wait time for retrying is so long.

    However, I'm okay if ANet never, ever changes it. I think it's good for the game to have some content that is too hard for me; it reminds me that this is a huge game and I don't need to participate in everything, get every AP, claim every skin. It's also is more fun for me if there are some goals for which I have to stretch hard to reach.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2018

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    This has come up every year for 6 years and the JP has so far and prob always will be, untouched.

    The same was with Wintersday JP, until it eventually got changed last time. For pretty much the same reasons people are now asking to change Clocktower.

    I'm pretty sure that the only reason why it didn't get the same treatment yet is because the wintersday one was simply easier to adjust.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Aaralyna.3104Aaralyna.3104 Member ✭✭✭✭

    First of all, you don't have to do the jumping puzzle for either the annual meta achievement to complete nor for the (were it Lunatic boots) that come with it. You can get the boots via a recipe as well via vendor with candy cobs.

    I will be honest here and tell that I tried this jumping puzzle now for the second year. Up till today I never finished it. But with 1 year practising jumping puzzles (all Tyria ones), retrying the Hallloween puzzle this year, and adjusting some settings (and someone looking along via discord screenshare, tips and stuffs) I managed to almost finish it. I just made some errors of jumping on perhaps the last 5 jumps. In 2 hour trying today I failed about 90% to not even get at half the puzzle.

    Regardless of this, I am of opinion the jumping puzzle does not have to change. Yes there may be some players with high ping but they won't be able to pass any jumping puzzle, timed content in game, etc. However this will not get them locked out of the rewards as mentioned in my first sentence.

    Some tips:

    1. Practice jumping in general. If you didn't do any puzzle before, start on non time gated ones (don't cheese in with mesmer portals, optionally ask a friend along so you can jump together).
    2. Relax... The puzzle can be quite stressy. Sit comfortably, take a break if needed. Its not bad if you fail, you may get there at some point. Trial and repeat, and just go with the flow. And don't let other players pressure you, just think you are there alone.
    3. Camera settings. The puzzle asks you to turn your camera endlessly to the right. It can help if your camera turns faster (you can change this is game settings). Make sure you also have enough view depth as you need to jump down once.
    4. Mouse. As mentioned in point 3, lots of camera turning. If you use a standard mouse, you may want to raise its speed in your mouse settings (pc configuration screen in windows). A mouse with dpi setting also works if you have that luxury. Faster mouse means less arm stretching to keep make right turns (you can turn in a smaller spot so you can keep your arm still, or at least be less of an octopuss).
    5. During the puzzle, try not to take pauses (apart from 1st tiny cogwheel in start and the jump before entering the tower), too slow means out of time. Better gamble on a jump than wait and figure out you are out of time (especially before the big jump down).
    6. Don't you manage this year? There will be next year again. Practice makes perfect :)

    Good luck!

  • I dislike jumping puzzles in general. Some are fine (Siren's Landing for example), some are almost fun (Siren'a Landing again), some are just evil (Charlice anyone?) and some are bullkitten. I did most, I won't do this.

    the 'reward' and the AP are not worth my time. That simple.

  • Jumpin Lumpix.6108Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I really wish they would make the difficulty of the clock tower harder, and put super exclusive rewards in it. That way we could reward players that have actual gaming skills, rather then those who open their wallets.

  • Kumouta.4985Kumouta.4985 Member ✭✭✭

    i wish they could let me see other players so i can give better tips and block my own view to make it a little bit more challenging.
    Seriously.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    Different difficulties work for the wintersday jp bc it is farmable in a way that the clocktower is not. You really only need to do it once a year . . .

    I think the main thing which made adding difficulties to Wintersday jumping puzzle logical is that it already had 3 different paths through the timed section. All they had to do was adjust the timing on the snowflake platforms so one set take longer to disappear and one set take less time. Whereas the clocktower only has one path, so it would be a lot more work to change it.

    Personally I like @killermanjaro.5670's idea of a practice mode with no time limit and where you can restart immediately, so you can practice and learn the path and then get used to the timing separately.

    Although I'd suggest keeping the final jump from the stairs into the clock timed, because that is the only thing which makes that jump challenging but it takes practice to get it right and I imagine it would be even harder to learn if you'd gotten used to just running up the stairs and jumping immediately and suddenly you're faced with having to wait and catch just the right moment to get in.

    Practice mode would be a good idea, idk how hard it would be to implement. One thing I've noticed about ppl in game who complain that the jp is impossible and they just can't do it is that once they get it, they can do repeat completions with relative ease. So if a practice mode could give more ppl more confidence to keep trying, that would be a positive outcome . . .

  • @pholtos.9751 said:
    And then there's people like me.
    Could I get a harder difficulty? :P

    +1 to this. Clocktower is my favorite part of GW2 Halloween.

  • Dreamy Lu.3865Dreamy Lu.3865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Personally, what I dislike at this JP is the waiting time. I always do several tries before to do it completely. And when we need several repeats like me, this waiting time between each go is really long. Often, it makes me give up. I have some friends who also give up due to the waiting time.

    On the other hand, what I find so great in this JP is that other players are not disturbing the view. I dream that they make something similar with the Wintersday one.

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  • Pirindolo.9427Pirindolo.9427 Member ✭✭✭

    The waiting time is what is keeping so many ppl away even from just trying it. It should be changed to a 1-player-instance with instant restart after you die.

  • Sonoroho.5093Sonoroho.5093 Member ✭✭
    edited October 20, 2018

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    The waiting time is what is keeping so many ppl away even from just trying it. It should be changed to a 1-player-instance with instant restart after you die.

    +1. I would attempt it more often if this were implemented.

    As it is...I haven't even bothered this year yet.

  • Rauderi.8706Rauderi.8706 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    The waiting time is what is keeping so many people away even from just trying it. It should be changed to a 1-player-instance with instant restart after you die.

    This, this, this. Clocktower violates the principle of Fail Faster. I don't mind difficult. I do mind having to wait a ridiculous amount of time in the event of a minor failure.

    Many alts! Handle it!

    "A condescending answer might as well not be an answer at all."
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  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What I hate is when the map expires just as you join (meaning you have to wait a full minute before you jump, or exit and reload again). To be honest, I'm not sure how I feel about making the JP easier or a solo instance though - when interesting people gather at a piece of hard content, it can lead to some very fun conversations at the startline xD

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2018

    Why do people who can do it, or otherwise don't want it changed, object to multiple difficulties (and rewards)? It costs them absolutely nothing to let other players be able to finish it. Absolutely nothing.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    Why do people who can do it, or otherwise don't want it changed, object to multiple difficulties (and rewards)? It costs them absolutely nothing to let other players be able to finish it. Absolutely nothing.

    It cost dev time that they think can be used on something else they may enjoy instead of nefing what they can already do for others.

    Human nature really I can do it so everyone else should be able to.

  • Nidome.1365Nidome.1365 Member ✭✭✭

    I never had a problem with the wintersday JP, but the clock tower JP is one I have never managed and it isn't for want of trying.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    Why do people who can do it, or otherwise don't want it changed, object to multiple difficulties (and rewards)? It costs them absolutely nothing to let other players be able to finish it. Absolutely nothing.

    It cost dev time that they think can be used on something else they may enjoy instead of nefing what they can already do for others.

    Human nature really I can do it so everyone else should be able to.

    Except this would be trivial to implement. Just have some of the instances run at different rates.

    In fact, not only is it trivial, they probably have already done it! They had to originally find the right tuning to make it the difficulty it is now. It's a near certainty that they didn't guess at the right speed the first time they tried; thus, that must have already created instances with different timings.

    But, my question you answered in the second half. I would phrase it differently, but that wording might get me infracted. So, let's just say that I don't think of them very highly.

  • @killermanjaro.5670 said:
    I'd very much welcome the option of a solo 'practice' instance of it, where you could enter and attempt it without waiting for bits to appear, and without any timers/bits falling away, and most importantly where If you fail then you could restart and attempt it again straight away, without that stupid waiting timer, as that's the main reason I don't bother with it. Even if this 'practice' mode didn't give rewards I'd be fine with that, it'd just be nice to have an instance to enjoy it and try to improve for the actual challenge.

    you already have the easy mode option available.
    When the jp where first introduced you could see all the other players. because of all the players you would have a hard time to see where to jump next, and easily fail. now you just see a little fog and a red name over their head. watch a guide and try harder. its not that hard.

  • @Black Wolf.7348 said:

    @killermanjaro.5670 said:
    I'd very much welcome the option of a solo 'practice' instance of it, where you could enter and attempt it without waiting for bits to appear, and without any timers/bits falling away, and most importantly where If you fail then you could restart and attempt it again straight away, without that stupid waiting timer, as that's the main reason I don't bother with it. Even if this 'practice' mode didn't give rewards I'd be fine with that, it'd just be nice to have an instance to enjoy it and try to improve for the actual challenge.

    you already have the easy mode option available.
    When the jp where first introduced you could see all the other players. because of all the players you would have a hard time to see where to jump next, and easily fail. now you just see a little fog and a red name over their head. watch a guide and try harder. its not that hard.

    I didn't even mention an 'easy mode' option, only that it would be nice to have an instance to practise in, one where players can get used to the layout, and most importantly not have to wait around after each fail. Watching a guide is fine, but having to wait an eternity after each failed attempt is something that really causes an issue with trying to practise it, hence why I (and I'm sure many others) decide to just ignore this JP, even though I enjoy JPs.

    Also glad you find it "not that hard", but that doesn't mean others don't find it hard, and that's fine, as you say it's a case of "try harder", which is exactly why a 'practice instance' would be nice to have, so people who don't find it easy can try to improve at it, without having to spend half of their gaming time waiting in a lobby.

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2018

    It doesn't need difficulty settings, it needs to be separately instanced. The problem isn't the difficulty, it's the waiting time in between. I outlined this last year, on average, people spend around 15-25s of jumping while waiting something like 1:05 up to 1:15 or 1:20 before they can start again. This is kitten poor design. Most aren't going to get better at jumping waiting that long in between; they'll get frustrated and irritated instead.

    What they need to do (and do it now) is make this jumping puzzle purchasable and instanced in people's home instance. Not purchasable by gems or gold, but by halloween currency like candy corn (or the cobs). Not some asinine amount, but like 1000 candy corn or 1 cob. Then people go in their home instance by themselves and do the jumping puzzle at their pace. Allow them to skip the cut scenes, and have wait times no longer than 5s in between tries. Make it so you can only collect 1 set of bags off it per day, but leave it in people's home instance permanently with the ability to finish the annual achievement at any given time of year.

    The amount of people that piped up about this last year make it a complete shock that they didn't do anything about the waiting time with it this year. Imagine what the wintersday JP would be like if it functioned the same was as the clock tower jp...

  • Avelynn.2691Avelynn.2691 Member ✭✭
    edited October 21, 2018

    I would rather them try and fix the desyncing and stuttering that regularly occurs in there. Maybe it's my ping, but because of that, this is the only JP where someone who has completed it multiple times is still able to run into issues on a return visit. I finished the repeatable by lingering in 1 instance, but when I returned to do the daily the next day I crashed into the wall at the end or fell around where the moving parts loaded when my FPS stuttered.

    While somewhat annoying, the wait time isn't that bad. The only part that required extensive practice was the very first bit where the platforms had to spawn. Once you get past the jump onto the right small block -> gear -> first set of stairs, you can actually slow down a little. If you fail, you generally need more practice with this area over anywhere else and it doesn't take that long for the puzzle to restart (The only time I've had to wait 1+ min is if I fell at the very end of the JP). This makes it not much different from Skipping Stones in Southsun Cove. Myself and many others have done it on 250+ ping, you can too.

  • @Rauderi.8706 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    The waiting time is what is keeping so many people away even from just trying it. It should be changed to a 1-player-instance with instant restart after you die.

    This, this, this. Clocktower violates the principle of Fail Faster. I don't mind difficult. I do mind having to wait a ridiculous amount of time in the event of a minor failure.

    Perfectly said.

  • What is your problem with actually improving on your skills? I cant imagine anyone saying "nah, cant breath, will give in to that". You require that JP for nothing but your own, so invest time to get it done.

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's cool that it exists, but kitten change it to a single player instance where you haven't to wait every time for minutes to restart. This is utterly annoying and a waste of time.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My issue with it, has never been so much the difficulty (trust me it's not that hard), but the fact that you have to wait so long for it to restart. That's what causes the frustration, even if people don't realize it. In most JP, including Winter Wonderland, it's all about the timing, and if you mess up, you can start over pretty soon, if not immediately with your error still fresh, and keep some of the grasp on the timing, which allows you to improve. The Clock tower can make you wait minutes for it to restart, which means everything is gone, and you'll be more frustrated and less focused by the time you get to start over.
    It's all because it's treated like a pvp map, with you having to wait for the pvp session to restart. If that was changed, and you could either be switched to a new instance as soon as you fail, have a personal instance (because lets face it, having wisps jumping ahead of you brings nothing to the enjoyment of the JP), or simply re-script the whole thing so that it functions in a wave, like the wintersday puzzle, allowing multiple people to be completing it in different stages of the puzzle. Until they get rid of that enormous wait time, the difficulty will always seem greater than it actually is.