Raids in 2k18 became farm fiesta. Remove rewards from the old wings finally. And fix it, please - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Raids in 2k18 became farm fiesta. Remove rewards from the old wings finally. And fix it, please

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Comments

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭

    I haven't started raiding yet, and I demand to get the same gold reward as all the farmers that went into raiding before me :)

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xar.1387 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever read in this forum. The raiding community is already digging its own grave using excessive KP-requirements and often displaying a cancerous pseudo-elitistic toxicity. W1-W4 are fine. It's hard, but you at least somewhat get into them as newbie or person who doesn't has a static. It's W5 and W6 that are problematic health-wise for the game. It's utterly hard to get into them due to KP-requirements (not everyone has the luxury of a static - most statics already demand excessive requirements anyway). For most people, it's more pragmatic to simply buy at least Dhuum and Qadim once rather than doing them themselves, even if they're sufficiently skilled. To be honest, this game wasn't made for raids in the first place anyway. The combat-system is far too rudimentary; that's why ANet has to use a lot of gimmicky stuff in instanced PvE. Don't get me wrong, I like doing raids (when I get into them anyway), but I do think that raids should never be something ANet should really focus on.

    Well 1-2 raid wings a year I wouldent say that is focusing on it honestly.

    Aye. But one raid per year is sufficient, considering the raiding-community is small to begin with and considering that new wings (W5 onward) are mostly reserved for a small part of the already small community. ANet should rather focus on delivering quality OW-content which is really lacking lately, maybe some new additions to PvP or WvW too.

    But its not PvP / WvW game too. Playerbase of this modes is even smaller than Raiding one atm.
    So why they should do anything more there?

    Considering your arguments Anet shouldnt do almost anything here. Just story. Cause its not Raiding game. Not PvP. Not WvW.
    And every game mode population is relatively small.
    This way of thinking dont make this game better. Just worse tbh. And makes ppl leave the game

    Doing almost nothing cause 'population is low' dont make that population raise.

    The WvW and PvP playerbase is way bigger than the raiding one lmao what are you talking about? Don't pull random stats out of nowhere. Having queues of 30+ on every map, 90+ on EB on resets means there are at least 400 people playing or wanting to play on my server.

    Smugly chuckling forever.
    My sentence doesn't make sense? Well, I probably forgot to write half of it before posting.

  • Xar.1387Xar.1387 Member ✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Xar.1387 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever read in this forum. The raiding community is already digging its own grave using excessive KP-requirements and often displaying a cancerous pseudo-elitistic toxicity. W1-W4 are fine. It's hard, but you at least somewhat get into them as newbie or person who doesn't has a static. It's W5 and W6 that are problematic health-wise for the game. It's utterly hard to get into them due to KP-requirements (not everyone has the luxury of a static - most statics already demand excessive requirements anyway). For most people, it's more pragmatic to simply buy at least Dhuum and Qadim once rather than doing them themselves, even if they're sufficiently skilled. To be honest, this game wasn't made for raids in the first place anyway. The combat-system is far too rudimentary; that's why ANet has to use a lot of gimmicky stuff in instanced PvE. Don't get me wrong, I like doing raids (when I get into them anyway), but I do think that raids should never be something ANet should really focus on.

    Well 1-2 raid wings a year I wouldent say that is focusing on it honestly.

    Aye. But one raid per year is sufficient, considering the raiding-community is small to begin with and considering that new wings (W5 onward) are mostly reserved for a small part of the already small community. ANet should rather focus on delivering quality OW-content which is really lacking lately, maybe some new additions to PvP or WvW too.

    But its not PvP / WvW game too. Playerbase of this modes is even smaller than Raiding one atm.
    So why they should do anything more there?

    Considering your arguments Anet shouldnt do almost anything here. Just story. Cause its not Raiding game. Not PvP. Not WvW.
    And every game mode population is relatively small.
    This way of thinking dont make this game better. Just worse tbh. And makes ppl leave the game

    Doing almost nothing cause 'population is low' dont make that population raise.

    The WvW and PvP playerbase is way bigger than the raiding one lmao what are you talking about? Don't pull random stats out of nowhere. Having queues of 30+ on every map, 90+ on EB on resets means there are at least 400 people playing or wanting to play on my server.

    Yeah. And they had to merge WvW servers because population is 2big. You're right

    http://aiwe.eu - Polish (RolePlay / Raid / PvP) guild

  • banshee.9328banshee.9328 Member ✭✭
    edited October 24, 2018

    -> Farm fiesta
    -> Getting 2g +random exo per boss once per week

    kkthxbye

  • Raizel.8175Raizel.8175 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xar.1387 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever read in this forum. The raiding community is already digging its own grave using excessive KP-requirements and often displaying a cancerous pseudo-elitistic toxicity. W1-W4 are fine. It's hard, but you at least somewhat get into them as newbie or person who doesn't has a static. It's W5 and W6 that are problematic health-wise for the game. It's utterly hard to get into them due to KP-requirements (not everyone has the luxury of a static - most statics already demand excessive requirements anyway). For most people, it's more pragmatic to simply buy at least Dhuum and Qadim once rather than doing them themselves, even if they're sufficiently skilled. To be honest, this game wasn't made for raids in the first place anyway. The combat-system is far too rudimentary; that's why ANet has to use a lot of gimmicky stuff in instanced PvE. Don't get me wrong, I like doing raids (when I get into them anyway), but I do think that raids should never be something ANet should really focus on.

    Well 1-2 raid wings a year I wouldent say that is focusing on it honestly.

    Aye. But one raid per year is sufficient, considering the raiding-community is small to begin with and considering that new wings (W5 onward) are mostly reserved for a small part of the already small community. ANet should rather focus on delivering quality OW-content which is really lacking lately, maybe some new additions to PvP or WvW too.

    But its not PvP / WvW game too. Playerbase of this modes is even smaller than Raiding one atm.
    So why they should do anything more there?

    Considering your arguments Anet shouldnt do almost anything here. Just story. Cause its not Raiding game. Not PvP. Not WvW.
    And every game mode population is relatively small.
    This way of thinking dont make this game better. Just worse tbh. And makes ppl leave the game

    Doing almost nothing cause 'population is low' dont make that population raise.

    PvP and WvW are core-game-modes and important to the game. The number of players participating in this content is certainly higher than the number of players participating in raids. These gamemodes have been neglected for ages though - unlike raids where you get at least one new wing per year. On the other hand: We still don't have any new PvP-modes besides Conquest and the WvW-restructuring they've announced like... what? ...a year ago still isn't implemented.

    Yes, ANet certainly shouldn't focus on developing raids and I say that despite doing raids and enjoying them - even with PUGs. This game was not made for raids to begin with. The shallow combat-system isn't made for sophisticated instanced PvE. It's made for OW-content where you can play the class you want since performance doesn't matter that much. It's just that simple. If you really want ANet to focus more on developing raid-content, then you need a far more welcoming community, some decent QoL-implementations like a decent guild-browser, better reward-structures and some better boss-design (W6 suffers from class-stacking which is just nonsensical game-design). That is what would make the population rise - not more content which is inaccessible to the majority of the playerbase.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raizel.8175 said:

    @Xar.1387 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever read in this forum. The raiding community is already digging its own grave using excessive KP-requirements and often displaying a cancerous pseudo-elitistic toxicity. W1-W4 are fine. It's hard, but you at least somewhat get into them as newbie or person who doesn't has a static. It's W5 and W6 that are problematic health-wise for the game. It's utterly hard to get into them due to KP-requirements (not everyone has the luxury of a static - most statics already demand excessive requirements anyway). For most people, it's more pragmatic to simply buy at least Dhuum and Qadim once rather than doing them themselves, even if they're sufficiently skilled. To be honest, this game wasn't made for raids in the first place anyway. The combat-system is far too rudimentary; that's why ANet has to use a lot of gimmicky stuff in instanced PvE. Don't get me wrong, I like doing raids (when I get into them anyway), but I do think that raids should never be something ANet should really focus on.

    Well 1-2 raid wings a year I wouldent say that is focusing on it honestly.

    Aye. But one raid per year is sufficient, considering the raiding-community is small to begin with and considering that new wings (W5 onward) are mostly reserved for a small part of the already small community. ANet should rather focus on delivering quality OW-content which is really lacking lately, maybe some new additions to PvP or WvW too.

    But its not PvP / WvW game too. Playerbase of this modes is even smaller than Raiding one atm.
    So why they should do anything more there?

    Considering your arguments Anet shouldnt do almost anything here. Just story. Cause its not Raiding game. Not PvP. Not WvW.
    And every game mode population is relatively small.
    This way of thinking dont make this game better. Just worse tbh. And makes ppl leave the game

    Doing almost nothing cause 'population is low' dont make that population raise.

    PvP and WvW are core-game-modes and important to the game. The number of players participating in this content is certainly higher than the number of players participating in raids. These gamemodes have been neglected for ages though - unlike raids where you get at least one new wing per year. On the other hand: We still don't have any new PvP-modes besides Conquest and the WvW-restructuring they've announced like... what? ...a year ago still isn't implemented.

    Yes, ANet certainly shouldn't focus on developing raids and I say that despite doing raids and enjoying them - even with PUGs. This game was not made for raids to begin with. The shallow combat-system isn't made for sophisticated instanced PvE. It's made for OW-content where you can play the class you want since performance doesn't matter that much. It's just that simple. If you really want ANet to focus more on developing raid-content, then you need a far more welcoming community, some decent QoL-implementations like a decent guild-browser, better reward-structures and some better boss-design (W6 suffers from class-stacking which is just nonsensical game-design). That is what would make the population rise - not more content which is inaccessible to the majority of the playerbase.

    It’s certainly possible that they could cap Raids at 8 wings like dungeons and then focus on a few CMs once fractals are finished.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2018

    @Xar.1387 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Xar.1387 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever read in this forum. The raiding community is already digging its own grave using excessive KP-requirements and often displaying a cancerous pseudo-elitistic toxicity. W1-W4 are fine. It's hard, but you at least somewhat get into them as newbie or person who doesn't has a static. It's W5 and W6 that are problematic health-wise for the game. It's utterly hard to get into them due to KP-requirements (not everyone has the luxury of a static - most statics already demand excessive requirements anyway). For most people, it's more pragmatic to simply buy at least Dhuum and Qadim once rather than doing them themselves, even if they're sufficiently skilled. To be honest, this game wasn't made for raids in the first place anyway. The combat-system is far too rudimentary; that's why ANet has to use a lot of gimmicky stuff in instanced PvE. Don't get me wrong, I like doing raids (when I get into them anyway), but I do think that raids should never be something ANet should really focus on.

    Well 1-2 raid wings a year I wouldent say that is focusing on it honestly.

    Aye. But one raid per year is sufficient, considering the raiding-community is small to begin with and considering that new wings (W5 onward) are mostly reserved for a small part of the already small community. ANet should rather focus on delivering quality OW-content which is really lacking lately, maybe some new additions to PvP or WvW too.

    But its not PvP / WvW game too. Playerbase of this modes is even smaller than Raiding one atm.
    So why they should do anything more there?

    Considering your arguments Anet shouldnt do almost anything here. Just story. Cause its not Raiding game. Not PvP. Not WvW.
    And every game mode population is relatively small.
    This way of thinking dont make this game better. Just worse tbh. And makes ppl leave the game

    Doing almost nothing cause 'population is low' dont make that population raise.

    The WvW and PvP playerbase is way bigger than the raiding one lmao what are you talking about? Don't pull random stats out of nowhere. Having queues of 30+ on every map, 90+ on EB on resets means there are at least 400 people playing or wanting to play on my server.

    Yeah. And they had to merge WvW servers because population is 2big. You're right

    You just disqualified yourself for any further talk on this topic. My god, how narrowminded can you be.

    Coverage =/= Population

    And sure, some servers ARE small, not everything can be stacked. Not an argument though, since they get linked for that reason.

    Have a wonderful time.

    Smugly chuckling forever.
    My sentence doesn't make sense? Well, I probably forgot to write half of it before posting.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    It’s certainly possible that they could cap Raids at 8 wings like dungeons and then focus on a few CMs once fractals are finished.

    This won't work because Raids are expansion content, each expansion has a different set of Raids. Heart of Thorns has 4 Raid Wings, Path of Fire has 2 Raid Wings, it's quite possible to have 4 Raid Wings per expansion. The idea of a Raid cap is ridiculous

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    PvP and WvW are core-game-modes and important to the game.

    The main issue with and PVP and WVW is exactly this... they are core game modes that you can play without ever buying an expansion. I believe that's one of the main reasons those game modes have been mostly neglected, they cannot be monetized. And no, Elite Specs aren't "enough", you can play the game modes without using elite specs, yes you will be at a disadvantage, but you won't be blocked from participating. You can even play the game modes as a free player.

    What's a bit puzzling is the amount of effort put into Fractals, which are also core content that is not monetized, and certainly get way more attention than PVP/WVW.

  • Amineo.8951Amineo.8951 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    @banshee.9328 said:
    -> Farm fiesta
    -> Getting 2g +random exo per boss once per week

    kkthxbye

    The selling is out of hand though, have you seen how bad this is compared to fractals? There aren't any selling there anymore because everyone has to do the mechanics since they cannot be skipped in 100CM, I still consider Ark harder than any raid boss outside Dhuum.

    Edit: I think myself that it would be really funny to see how many people doing raids are buying clears, just to see how much are doing the content themselves.

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    PvP and WvW are core-game-modes and important to the game.

    The main issue with and PVP and WVW is exactly this... they are core game modes that you can play without ever buying an expansion. I believe that's one of the main reasons those game modes have been mostly neglected, they cannot be monetized. And no, Elite Specs aren't "enough", you can play the game modes without using elite specs, yes you will be at a disadvantage, but you won't be blocked from participating. You can even play the game modes as a free player.

    What's a bit puzzling is the amount of effort put into Fractals, which are also core content that is not monetized, and certainly get way more attention than PVP/WVW.

    But for high level fractals you need agony. And without expansion you dont gave masteries (so no singularity and no atuned/infused equipment) so you lose 5 out of 18 infusion slots.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    The main issue with and PVP and WVW is exactly this... they are core game modes that you can play without ever buying an expansion. I believe that's one of the main reasons those game modes have been mostly neglected, they cannot be monetized. And no, Elite Specs aren't "enough", you can play the game modes without using elite specs, yes you will be at a disadvantage, but you won't be blocked from participating. You can even play the game modes as a free player.

    What's a bit puzzling is the amount of effort put into Fractals, which are also core content that is not monetized, and certainly get way more attention than PVP/WVW.

    But for high level fractals you need agony. And without expansion you dont gave masteries (so no singularity and no atuned/infused equipment) so you lose 5 out of 18 infusion slots.

    You need the mastery to get infused equipment? Infused gear pre-dates expansions so I find it weird, I had loads of infused items long before Heart of Thorns was even released. Attuned yes, you can't get that without the mastery. Even without the mastery, you can get maximum AR, but it will be more expensive. Of course you'll lose the extra rewards from the mastery but you will be missing rewards in PVP/WVW as well, you can't access the reward tracks of expansions without having the appropriate expansion for example. Yes you will be at a disadvantage without expansions, but you can at least access the content, this isn't true for Raids for example, each expansion has its own set of Wings.

  • Raizel.8175Raizel.8175 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    PvP and WvW are core-game-modes and important to the game.

    The main issue with and PVP and WVW is exactly this... they are core game modes that you can play without ever buying an expansion. I believe that's one of the main reasons those game modes have been mostly neglected, they cannot be monetized. And no, Elite Specs aren't "enough", you can play the game modes without using elite specs, yes you will be at a disadvantage, but you won't be blocked from participating. You can even play the game modes as a free player.

    What's a bit puzzling is the amount of effort put into Fractals, which are also core content that is not monetized, and certainly get way more attention than PVP/WVW.

    Just using monetization as argument is kinda silly and not really healthy for the game. I mean, just look at the gaming industry as a whole. Just look at how many studios died due to building games around their respective cash shop. Really valuable IPs like Mass Effect got killed off for good because of that nonsense. I dare say it would be healthier for the game if they give PvP and WvW some love. That way, the game may attract people who like PvP/WvW or at least the game won't lose people due to the lack of PvP/WvW-content.

    By your logic, fractals kinda can be monetized - at least if people want to do everything, meaning also 99/100 CM. Chrono ist just too broken OP in PvE-content.

    Anyway, I do think games need a strong fundament and that ANet is basically killing off PvP/WvW by simply neglecting that content is stupid on their part.

  • @Amineo.8951 said:

    @banshee.9328 said:
    -> Farm fiesta
    -> Getting 2g +random exo per boss once per week

    kkthxbye

    (...)There aren't any selling there anymore because everyone has to do the mechanics since they cannot be skipped in 100CM(...)

    You may find fractal CMs sellers with no problems. LNHB is buyable title.
    Still I don't see any correlation between what I wrote and your answer ;) Ppl are buying raids because of collections, APs etc. and it has nothing to do with weekly boss rewards which are kitten considering time spending and efficiency in comparison to any farm like SW or fractals daily.

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    The main issue with and PVP and WVW is exactly this... they are core game modes that you can play without ever buying an expansion. I believe that's one of the main reasons those game modes have been mostly neglected, they cannot be monetized. And no, Elite Specs aren't "enough", you can play the game modes without using elite specs, yes you will be at a disadvantage, but you won't be blocked from participating. You can even play the game modes as a free player.

    What's a bit puzzling is the amount of effort put into Fractals, which are also core content that is not monetized, and certainly get way more attention than PVP/WVW.

    But for high level fractals you need agony. And without expansion you dont gave masteries (so no singularity and no atuned/infused equipment) so you lose 5 out of 18 infusion slots.

    You need the mastery to get infused equipment? Infused gear pre-dates expansions so I find it weird, I had loads of infused items long before Heart of Thorns was even released. Attuned yes, you can't get that without the mastery. Even without the mastery, you can get maximum AR, but it will be more expensive. Of course you'll lose the extra rewards from the mastery but you will be missing rewards in PVP/WVW as well, you can't access the reward tracks of expansions without having the appropriate expansion for example. Yes you will be at a disadvantage without expansions, but you can at least access the content, this isn't true for Raids for example, each expansion has its own set of Wings.

    You are right. But you cannot use infusion golem so you have to buy infusions from TP. And if you are f2p i think you cannot do that.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    Just using monetization as argument is kinda silly and not really healthy for the game. I mean, just look at the gaming industry as a whole. Just look at how many studios died due to building games around their respective cash shop. Really valuable IPs like Mass Effect got killed off for good because of that nonsense. I dare say it would be healthier for the game if they give PvP and WvW some love. That way, the game may attract people who like PvP/WvW or at least the game won't lose people due to the lack of PvP/WvW-content.

    By your logic, fractals kinda can be monetized - at least if people want to do everything, meaning also 99/100 CM. Chrono ist just too broken OP in PvE-content.

    Anyway, I do think games need a strong fundament and that ANet is basically killing off PvP/WvW by simply neglecting that content is stupid on their part.

    I'm sorry I didn't word it properly. I don't think PVP and WVW should remain like this, without attention because they cannot be as easily monetized. I'd love for PVP and WVW to get way more attention, I play both those game modes a lot, especially PVP. I gave a reason, as to why I think PVP and WVW do not get as much attention, not that I like, or approve, of said reason.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    PvP and WvW are core-game-modes and important to the game.

    The main issue with and PVP and WVW is exactly this... they are core game modes that you can play without ever buying an expansion. I believe that's one of the main reasons those game modes have been mostly neglected, they cannot be monetized. And no, Elite Specs aren't "enough", you can play the game modes without using elite specs, yes you will be at a disadvantage, but you won't be blocked from participating. You can even play the game modes as a free player.

    What's a bit puzzling is the amount of effort put into Fractals, which are also core content that is not monetized, and certainly get way more attention than PVP/WVW.

    Fractals are core content only theoretically. Remember, that without fractal masteries (which are locked behind buying an expansion) you have lowered rewards, harder access to AR and lower bonuses from pots. Anyone running fractals on frequent basis would be encouraged to "upgrade", even if that is not strictly required.

    Sometimes, soft enticement can be way more succesful than hard restrictions.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Fractals are core content only theoretically. Remember, that without fractal masteries (which are locked behind buying an expansion) you have lowered rewards, harder access to AR and lower bonuses from pots. Anyone running fractals on frequent basis would be encouraged to "upgrade", even if that is not strictly required.

    Sometimes, soft enticement can be way more succesful than hard restrictions.

    Anyone that wants to be successful in PVP/WVW will need the expansion in order to stay competitive using elite specs, then you'll be soundly beaten by those using elite specs and be "enticed" to buy an expansion (or some on the forums and complain about overpowered elite specs). I call them core content because you aren't barred from playing if you don't have an expansion. There are restrictions of course.

    Besides that, technically you need only ONE of the expansions for the rewards and the AR, you don't need to buy Path of Fire or any future expansions once you buy Heart of Thorns.

  • Xar.1387Xar.1387 Member ✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    It’s certainly possible that they could cap Raids at 8 wings like dungeons and then focus on a few CMs once fractals are finished.

    This won't work because Raids are expansion content, each expansion has a different set of Raids. Heart of Thorns has 4 Raid Wings, Path of Fire has 2 Raid Wings, it's quite possible to have 4 Raid Wings per expansion. The idea of a Raid cap is ridiculous

    Who knows. He may be right tbh. Current system of rewards in raids can lead to this after all. Just 8 active raiding wings to farm. Noone said 3rd expansion is going to focus on raids too. Maybe Anet will focus on WvW more? Maybe PvP again? Or something else. Just story mby. With HoT we got lege armor. PoF - lege trinkets. Lege weapons already exist. Back too. So what could be next? And amount of active raids still raises. So it can also stop them cause they will figure someday that there's already enough raids in GW2. And they dont need more. Sad hypothesis but it may happen

    IMO current way of developing raids (farm fiesta) may make it happen. And that's also one of reasons I created this thread

    http://aiwe.eu - Polish (RolePlay / Raid / PvP) guild

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xar.1387 said:
    Who knows. He may be right tbh. Current system of rewards in raids can lead to this after all. Just 8 active raiding wings to farm. Noone said 3rd expansion is going to focus on raids too. Maybe Anet will focus on WvW more? Maybe PvP again? Or something else. Just story mby. With HoT we got lege armor. PoF - lege trinkets. Lege weapons already exist. Back too. So what could be next? And amount of active raids still raises. So it can also stop them cause they will figure someday that there's already enough raids in GW2. And they dont need more. Sad hypothesis but it may happen

    IMO current way of developing raids (farm fiesta) may make it happen. And that's also one of reasons I created this thread

    Maybe we'll get an Amulet or an Accessory. Or maybe another Armor set, who knows what we'll get. Even weapons could be on the list, after all Gen 2 will be done very soon, maybe Gen 3 weapons will be in future Raids or something. I don't think "what could be next?" is any kind of reason not to continue developing Raids. The team that deals with WVW, the team that deals with PVP are separate to the the Raid team. I don't see any reason not to continue releasing Raids for future expansions

  • @Xar.1387 said:
    So what could be next?

    Legendary Food? Never runs out and you can choose the effect of food already in the game.
    Just some prestige Skins/Titles?
    It doesnt have do be something legendary tbh.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xar.1387 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Xar.1387 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever read in this forum. The raiding community is already digging its own grave using excessive KP-requirements and often displaying a cancerous pseudo-elitistic toxicity. W1-W4 are fine. It's hard, but you at least somewhat get into them as newbie or person who doesn't has a static. It's W5 and W6 that are problematic health-wise for the game. It's utterly hard to get into them due to KP-requirements (not everyone has the luxury of a static - most statics already demand excessive requirements anyway). For most people, it's more pragmatic to simply buy at least Dhuum and Qadim once rather than doing them themselves, even if they're sufficiently skilled. To be honest, this game wasn't made for raids in the first place anyway. The combat-system is far too rudimentary; that's why ANet has to use a lot of gimmicky stuff in instanced PvE. Don't get me wrong, I like doing raids (when I get into them anyway), but I do think that raids should never be something ANet should really focus on.

    Well 1-2 raid wings a year I wouldent say that is focusing on it honestly.

    Aye. But one raid per year is sufficient, considering the raiding-community is small to begin with and considering that new wings (W5 onward) are mostly reserved for a small part of the already small community. ANet should rather focus on delivering quality OW-content which is really lacking lately, maybe some new additions to PvP or WvW too.

    But its not PvP / WvW game too. Playerbase of this modes is even smaller than Raiding one atm.
    So why they should do anything more there?

    Considering your arguments Anet shouldnt do almost anything here. Just story. Cause its not Raiding game. Not PvP. Not WvW.
    And every game mode population is relatively small.
    This way of thinking dont make this game better. Just worse tbh. And makes ppl leave the game

    Doing almost nothing cause 'population is low' dont make that population raise.

    The WvW and PvP playerbase is way bigger than the raiding one lmao what are you talking about? Don't pull random stats out of nowhere. Having queues of 30+ on every map, 90+ on EB on resets means there are at least 400 people playing or wanting to play on my server.

    Yeah. And they had to merge WvW servers because population is 2big. You're right

    Lmao this guy. Servers never were merged. Low population severes get LINKED to high populated once, so everyone can get fair fights. Next time you speak of something, make sure you know the subject.
    If this game was about raids, you won't be abbe to craft gear and get trinkets from OW. You would be raiding for it and god forbit rolling dyce on a single peace between 10 raider members.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • Xar.1387Xar.1387 Member ✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Xar.1387 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Xar.1387 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever read in this forum. The raiding community is already digging its own grave using excessive KP-requirements and often displaying a cancerous pseudo-elitistic toxicity. W1-W4 are fine. It's hard, but you at least somewhat get into them as newbie or person who doesn't has a static. It's W5 and W6 that are problematic health-wise for the game. It's utterly hard to get into them due to KP-requirements (not everyone has the luxury of a static - most statics already demand excessive requirements anyway). For most people, it's more pragmatic to simply buy at least Dhuum and Qadim once rather than doing them themselves, even if they're sufficiently skilled. To be honest, this game wasn't made for raids in the first place anyway. The combat-system is far too rudimentary; that's why ANet has to use a lot of gimmicky stuff in instanced PvE. Don't get me wrong, I like doing raids (when I get into them anyway), but I do think that raids should never be something ANet should really focus on.

    Well 1-2 raid wings a year I wouldent say that is focusing on it honestly.

    Aye. But one raid per year is sufficient, considering the raiding-community is small to begin with and considering that new wings (W5 onward) are mostly reserved for a small part of the already small community. ANet should rather focus on delivering quality OW-content which is really lacking lately, maybe some new additions to PvP or WvW too.

    But its not PvP / WvW game too. Playerbase of this modes is even smaller than Raiding one atm.
    So why they should do anything more there?

    Considering your arguments Anet shouldnt do almost anything here. Just story. Cause its not Raiding game. Not PvP. Not WvW.
    And every game mode population is relatively small.
    This way of thinking dont make this game better. Just worse tbh. And makes ppl leave the game

    Doing almost nothing cause 'population is low' dont make that population raise.

    The WvW and PvP playerbase is way bigger than the raiding one lmao what are you talking about? Don't pull random stats out of nowhere. Having queues of 30+ on every map, 90+ on EB on resets means there are at least 400 people playing or wanting to play on my server.

    Yeah. And they had to merge WvW servers because population is 2big. You're right

    Lmao this guy. Servers never were merged. Low population severes get LINKED to high populated once, so everyone can get fair fights. Next time you speak of something, make sure you know the subject.
    If this game was about raids, you won't be abbe to craft gear and get trinkets from OW. You would be raiding for it and god forbit rolling dyce on a single peace between 10 raider members.

    <.<

    Merged / linked / united / connected / fused / ...

    WHATEVER. Rly

    Anyway those servers will be removed in the future

    http://aiwe.eu - Polish (RolePlay / Raid / PvP) guild

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xar.1387 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Xar.1387 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Xar.1387 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever read in this forum. The raiding community is already digging its own grave using excessive KP-requirements and often displaying a cancerous pseudo-elitistic toxicity. W1-W4 are fine. It's hard, but you at least somewhat get into them as newbie or person who doesn't has a static. It's W5 and W6 that are problematic health-wise for the game. It's utterly hard to get into them due to KP-requirements (not everyone has the luxury of a static - most statics already demand excessive requirements anyway). For most people, it's more pragmatic to simply buy at least Dhuum and Qadim once rather than doing them themselves, even if they're sufficiently skilled. To be honest, this game wasn't made for raids in the first place anyway. The combat-system is far too rudimentary; that's why ANet has to use a lot of gimmicky stuff in instanced PvE. Don't get me wrong, I like doing raids (when I get into them anyway), but I do think that raids should never be something ANet should really focus on.

    Well 1-2 raid wings a year I wouldent say that is focusing on it honestly.

    Aye. But one raid per year is sufficient, considering the raiding-community is small to begin with and considering that new wings (W5 onward) are mostly reserved for a small part of the already small community. ANet should rather focus on delivering quality OW-content which is really lacking lately, maybe some new additions to PvP or WvW too.

    But its not PvP / WvW game too. Playerbase of this modes is even smaller than Raiding one atm.
    So why they should do anything more there?

    Considering your arguments Anet shouldnt do almost anything here. Just story. Cause its not Raiding game. Not PvP. Not WvW.
    And every game mode population is relatively small.
    This way of thinking dont make this game better. Just worse tbh. And makes ppl leave the game

    Doing almost nothing cause 'population is low' dont make that population raise.

    The WvW and PvP playerbase is way bigger than the raiding one lmao what are you talking about? Don't pull random stats out of nowhere. Having queues of 30+ on every map, 90+ on EB on resets means there are at least 400 people playing or wanting to play on my server.

    Yeah. And they had to merge WvW servers because population is 2big. You're right

    Lmao this guy. Servers never were merged. Low population severes get LINKED to high populated once, so everyone can get fair fights. Next time you speak of something, make sure you know the subject.
    If this game was about raids, you won't be abbe to craft gear and get trinkets from OW. You would be raiding for it and god forbit rolling dyce on a single peace between 10 raider members.

    <.<

    Merged / linked / united / connected / fused / ...

    WHATEVER. Rly

    Ill try to explain you. You see population of a server does nothing with wvw players on it. It's overall population from eprs to spvps.
    Servers are linked not because there isn't enough wvw players but to give the chance to those that are on low populated servers have same opportunity in wvw.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • Xar.1387Xar.1387 Member ✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    Anyway i dont care how much populated is any game mode tbh. Less or more. Raids / PvP / WvW etc, etc. Each of them is unique. And every brings different people to the game. Which makes MMO game bigger. And more popular. In a whole. Until those modes are ingame, ArenaNet should support every of them. And trying to bring as much new people interested in those modes as they can. Bring Raiders. PvPers. And people which like Mass-PvP. Instead of making veterans leave to the other games which support those modes more.

    As other games shows, every of this game mode is able to bring ALOT of ppl. But it requires alot of work and support.

    While right now many people says "its not PvP game", "its not Raiding game", "its not WvW game".
    And this argument is constantly being repeated. But it surely wont make this game better at all. Just worse. Cause GW2 wont be about anything then.
    Writing something like that surely wont push developers to support those modes more.

    http://aiwe.eu - Polish (RolePlay / Raid / PvP) guild

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    @Xar.1387 said:
    Anyway i dont care how much populated is any game mode tbh. Less or more. Raids / PvP / WvW etc, etc. Each of them is unique. And every brings different people to the game. Which makes MMO game bigger. And more popular. Until those modes are ingame, ArenaNet should support every of them. And trying to bring as much new people interested in those modes as they can. Bring Raiders. PvPers. And people which like Mass-PvP. Instead of making veterans leave to the other games which support those modes more.

    As other games shows, every of this game mode is able to bring ALOT of ppl. But it requires alot of work and support.

    While right now many people says "its not PvP game", "its not Raiding game", "its not WvW game".
    And this argument is constantly being repeated. But it surely wont make this game better at all. Just worse. Cause GW2 wont be about anything then

    You are missing the point. GW2 is about the Story. People buy expacs for the story, new maps, rest such as espec, raids etc are bonus content to most of the GW2 players.
    Frankly most of those players don't spend time on forums arguing about things, they play the game. And as far as they do, play, come back for another episode. Arena.NET knows they doing their job right.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    The main issue with and PVP and WVW is exactly this... they are core game modes that you can play without ever buying an expansion. I believe that's one of the main reasons those game modes have been mostly neglected, they cannot be monetized. And no, Elite Specs aren't "enough", you can play the game modes without using elite specs, yes you will be at a disadvantage, but you won't be blocked from participating. You can even play the game modes as a free player.

    What's a bit puzzling is the amount of effort put into Fractals, which are also core content that is not monetized, and certainly get way more attention than PVP/WVW.

    But for high level fractals you need agony. And without expansion you dont gave masteries (so no singularity and no atuned/infused equipment) so you lose 5 out of 18 infusion slots.

    You need the mastery to get infused equipment? Infused gear pre-dates expansions so I find it weird, I had loads of infused items long before Heart of Thorns was even released. Attuned yes, you can't get that without the mastery. Even without the mastery, you can get maximum AR, but it will be more expensive. Of course you'll lose the extra rewards from the mastery but you will be missing rewards in PVP/WVW as well, you can't access the reward tracks of expansions without having the appropriate expansion for example. Yes you will be at a disadvantage without expansions, but you can at least access the content, this isn't true for Raids for example, each expansion has its own set of Wings.

    You are right. But you cannot use infusion golem so you have to buy infusions from TP. And if you are f2p i think you cannot do that.

    You do know you can craft them yourself useing an artificer right?

  • @Linken.6345 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    The main issue with and PVP and WVW is exactly this... they are core game modes that you can play without ever buying an expansion. I believe that's one of the main reasons those game modes have been mostly neglected, they cannot be monetized. And no, Elite Specs aren't "enough", you can play the game modes without using elite specs, yes you will be at a disadvantage, but you won't be blocked from participating. You can even play the game modes as a free player.

    What's a bit puzzling is the amount of effort put into Fractals, which are also core content that is not monetized, and certainly get way more attention than PVP/WVW.

    But for high level fractals you need agony. And without expansion you dont gave masteries (so no singularity and no atuned/infused equipment) so you lose 5 out of 18 infusion slots.

    You need the mastery to get infused equipment? Infused gear pre-dates expansions so I find it weird, I had loads of infused items long before Heart of Thorns was even released. Attuned yes, you can't get that without the mastery. Even without the mastery, you can get maximum AR, but it will be more expensive. Of course you'll lose the extra rewards from the mastery but you will be missing rewards in PVP/WVW as well, you can't access the reward tracks of expansions without having the appropriate expansion for example. Yes you will be at a disadvantage without expansions, but you can at least access the content, this isn't true for Raids for example, each expansion has its own set of Wings.

    You are right. But you cannot use infusion golem so you have to buy infusions from TP. And if you are f2p i think you cannot do that.

    You do know you can craft them yourself useing an artificer right?

    To be fair I never have to search for what is and isnt part of the expansions and f2p

  • Ceit.7619Ceit.7619 Member ✭✭✭

    Everything in a game can become a 'farm fiesta', whatever that means. Raid content is meant to be farmed. If it was meant to be one and done, it would be like a living story episode, and it wouldn't have unique drops that you need to kill the boss a hundred times in order to get it. The nature of guild raid decorations, LI, randomized loot drops with unique skins available, all suggest that the intention is for raids to be farmed. Removing old rewards would just be a foolish move, especially when there is already incentive to playing newer wings. New boss proofs, new ascended skins, achievements, and then the types of players who just want to progress through the content (like yourself).

  • There is a model in the game for the idea of reducing spread will force more players into the same narrowed content: dynamic mega-servers. One problem was that with static servers players were being distributed across too many empty maps so that they subjectively felt as if nobody else was playing the game and gamers were not interacting with other gamers. There is also an existing history of the deprecation of content through removal of rewards moving players to new content. We saw that with dungeons and fractals. Conceptually. if no other factors existed, this might indeed function as OP envisions.

    However the OP's argument has at least 1 unspoken underlying assumption: that the pool of raiders will remain static or continue to grow if ANET deprecates early raids. There is an expressed assumption that raiding is or should be primarily for the purpose of challenge and continued participation in early content is bad for the mode. Both of these assumption are fallacies.

    The assumption that the pool of raiders will remain constant or grow has already been challenged. Players leave the game out of boredom, real-life issues, frustration, etc. The number of new players to the game or a given mode has to equal or exceed the number of players leaving in order for that game mode to remain viable. It has already been pointed out that the OP's assertion will negatively impact new players coming into raiding as a game mode. It has also been pointed out that the OP's assertion will provide a disincentive for HoT only gamers because they will lose most/any reward for the content they have already paid for. The burden is now upon the OP to demonstrate at least logically how their model overcomes this hurdle of the loss of player inflow and loss of existing players is not directly contradictory to their own statement:

    @Xar.1387 said:

    Until those modes are ingame, ArenaNet should support every of them. And trying to bring as much new people interested in those modes as they can. Bring Raiders. PvPers. And people which like Mass-PvP. Instead of making veterans leave to the other games which support those modes more.

    The dungeon to fractal example in fact is not a direct correlation at all because fractals have an increasing challenge design that makes accommodation for new players to learn mechanics and increase their AR whereas deprecating early raids to disincentivize raiders for doing them actually penalizes new raiders for being . . . new.

    This is where the expressed assumption that challenge is or should be the primary driving factor for raiding directly conflicts with the effects of the OP's desired deprecation of rewards. If the only thing that pays players for raiding is the new, more challenging content, but it is by definition harder to play, as someone has already noted, the bar for entry gets higher and higher which means that the inflow of new raiders will continue to drop. While the increase in challenge may hypothetically reduce the loss of raiders to boredom, again the burden is on the OP to demonstrate that the implementation of their assertion, will both not cause a catastrophic reduction in that pool of raiders and in fact have a beneficial effect to "bring as much new people interested in those modes as they can".

    I am myself a raider and I love it. My guild has a lot of players who have no experience raiding. Some are brand new to GW2, others have been playing since pre-launch, others took a long break from the game and have recently returned. We have been running training raids to bring these players into raiding. These early "old" raids are excellent for that purpose. The new raiders are challenged (as previously mentioned by several others) and they get a sense of accomplishment when they learn the mechanics, understand rotations and begin to defeat these early bosses. They deserve their loot rewards just as much as the people who were the first in the door and first to defeat VG. Learning how to defeat VG & escort are gateways into having the confidence to try more difficult bosses. The early wings also provide an opportunity to relatively quickly earn the gear that is arguably necessary in order to beat the more challenging content.

    The assertion that raiding should primarily be for challenge and not for farming is also flawed. As far as I know, raiding provides the fastest path to ascended armor. If you buy a character slot and want to gear that character quickly, go raid through W1-W4 for shards to gear that new character in order to learn how to raid in a new profession. Here again existing mastered content provides a good opportunity to master a new profession or elite specialization so that the raider isn't also trying to master new mechanics while also mastering a new rotation & set of skills. There is nothing wrong with desiring a challenge in raiding, but demanding that all raiders be forced to conform to the OP's values neglects too many other variables and differences in individual motivation.

    TLDR: OP's assertion would over time reduce the number of raiders to unsustainable levels and is based upon faulty logic.

  • LordMorgul.9845LordMorgul.9845 Member ✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    hey remove all dungeon reward too they are to old!!!! seriusly we are arguin about this? leave also world boss they are useless by now and reduce tequati size to a kitty so he can be archieved by new players!!!

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What a completely misguided suggestion: Deleting old content doesn't make Anet focus more on new content. Nor the players.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't think they'll ever put a main focus on PvP again. Seriously, they had the chance back in the days when GW2 PvP had a tiny competitive e-sport niche. They should have started split balancing between modes when it was heavily needed and focussing on that but they missed it. If you look at the actual PvP scene there are well established A+ titles. GW2 will never be able to get anything from the cake (back). It would need a big revolution within the game to have such an effect and regarding the evolution in GW2 it's more than unlikely to happen. Minor improvements are possible and I expect them in all game modes but nothing more.

  • So what if people's skills get better with practice so "raid become easier"? It is normal and expected. It should not result in penalizing people and cutting them out of any kind of rewards.

    So what if people farm any content? Why to take that from those who like it or do it for whatever other reason?

    Who decides when a particular content (or raid if you wish) is "old" and the loot from it should be removed? Based on what criteria would it be done?

    In my view, removing rewards from old content is unfair to players who did not do that content for whatever reason.

    I really don't understand OP's motive for this suggestion. After all, if one doesn't want to be rewarded for certain things done (I can hardly believe there's a lot of such people) he/she can always donate or destroy items/gold rewarded.

    Rytlock Brimstone: So we find the archon, take him out, then use Kas's "imposter" trick to take his place, right?
    Lady Kasmeer Meade: It's not a trick. Mesmers don't do "tricks"—we utilize illusion.
    Rytlock Brimstone: Yeah, yeah. You guys are worse than elementalists.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deadly Moonshiner.1354 said:
    So what if people's skills get better with practice so "raid become easier"? It is normal and expected. It should not result in penalizing people and cutting them out of any kind of rewards.

    So what if people farm any content? Why to take that from those who like it or do it for whatever other reason?

    Who decides when a particular content (or raid if you wish) is "old" and the loot from it should be removed? Based on what criteria would it be done?

    In my view, removing rewards from old content is unfair to players who did not do that content for whatever reason.

    I really don't understand OP's motive for this suggestion. After all, if one doesn't want to be rewarded for certain things done (I can hardly believe there's a lot of such people) he/she can always donate or destroy items/gold rewarded.

    I guess you could also just ignore those raid wings too.

  • I disagree. I havent completed any Raid yet and I want them to have rewards to make me want to do it again.

  • wanya.1697wanya.1697 Member ✭✭✭

    there are still enough players out there who even fail at escort so no I rly dont think thread opener is correct
    anet could make CMs repeatable for extra loot but not reduce loot for the normal clear that would be rly stupid

  • Zagerus.8675Zagerus.8675 Member ✭✭✭

    While I don't agree that removing/toning down rewards is a good idea, it -could- provide a unique opportunity to turn the initial wings into stepping stones for new raiders. If you're new to the game or can't meet time commitments to be in a static you are still left with spending a ton of time organizing a group, and sometimes it is only for one boss. In that sense the time commitment vs. rewards gained is pretty justified imo. If the rewards in the initial wing(s) are toned down, the fights should theoretically lose some of their edge against new players. Some things that you could do while shaving the shard reward:

    Vale Guardian:
    - Change greens so that if you miss, it inflicts a minor pulsing damage debuff instead of a spike of damage. Damage could be @ or around average regen healing.
    Gorseval:
    - Reduce Orb count
    Sabetha:
    - Slightly lower health on cannons.

    On the other hand... you could make the wings more difficult. Some things that you could do to make the community rage:

    Vale Guardian:
    - Missing Greens causes everyone in the area to lose all boons in addition to the spike damage.

    Gorseval:
    - Reinforce Gorseval's break phase by adding KB shockwaves to his fist pound attack. Aegis and stability uptime shouldn't be a problem in experienced groups.

    Sabetha:
    - Give her an unblockable aoe KB as part of her attack chain in the last phase. KB distance equal to half of the platform.

  • With the introduction of LD the reward for the old wings have been deleted. Currently only two wings give these, the old wings give li, which is worthless to those who mastered the wings long ago. What does old encounters give now, 2 gold, 1 exo worth probably less than 1 gold and 1 rare worth less than 50s.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    With the introduction of LD the reward for the old wings have been deleted. Currently only two wings give these, the old wings give li, which is worthless to those who mastered the wings long ago. What does old encounters give now, 2 gold, 1 exo worth probably less than 1 gold and 1 rare worth less than 50s.

    You are discounting all the people who have yet to get the ascended items they want(skins or other wise), and the people who still need to make legendary armor, regardless of if they have mastered the wings already. 2 gold is nothing to scoff at either, and exos and rares are useful for salvage if nothing else.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zagerus.8675 said:
    While I don't agree that removing/toning down rewards is a good idea, it -could- provide a unique opportunity to turn the initial wings into stepping stones for new raiders. If you're new to the game or can't meet time commitments to be in a static you are still left with spending a ton of time organizing a group, and sometimes it is only for one boss. In that sense the time commitment vs. rewards gained is pretty justified imo. If the rewards in the initial wing(s) are toned down, the fights should theoretically lose some of their edge against new players. Some things that you could do while shaving the shard reward:

    Vale Guardian:
    - Change greens so that if you miss, it inflicts a minor pulsing damage debuff instead of a spike of damage. Damage could be @ or around average regen healing.

    So basically remove the punishment for missed green entirely. Does not help at all for new players.

    Gorseval:
    - Reduce Orb count

    Orbs are not the problem, longer World Eater casttime would be better.

    Sabetha:
    - Slightly lower health on cannons.

    Cannon health is not the problem, making the bomb last longer would help.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2018

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    Vale Guardian:
    - Change greens so that if you miss, it inflicts a minor pulsing damage debuff instead of a spike of damage. Damage could be @ or around average regen healing.

    So basically remove the punishment for missed green entirely. Does not help at all for new players.

    Yes, that change would be equal to completely removing the mechanic. Better to just decrease the damage spike a little. I'd also decrease the range (and damage) of teleports, and damage aura of seekers.

    Gorseval:
    - Reduce Orb count

    Orbs are not the problem, longer World Eater casttime would be better.

    Reducing orb health would probably not hurt, as it would still instill importance of avoiding their fields/destroying them. Longer World Eater casttime would be a good idea regardless whether one would go for updraft or no-updraft strat.

    Sabetha:
    - Slightly lower health on cannons.

    Cannon health is not the problem, making the bomb last longer would help.

    Also a good idea. Personally haven't seen a single case where someone couldn't kill the cannon once they jumped safely - the problems are always centered around actual jump (bombs, not going there on time, getting killed by firewall or flak). Making the next and current cannon marked on platform (and not only on minimap) in easymode only would also be of significant help for new groups.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

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