Land Mines As a Utility Set

Mines would make an excellent addition to the engineer arsenal, and they fit the engineer play style quite nicely. Either implemented via a core engineer rework, or through a new elite specialization, mines would bring back engineer game play that hasn't been seen since the decline of turrets. Before the turret nerf, and before HoT, engineer was the king of bunkers. With strong turrets and ground target capability you were able to set up your fortress on a point and fend off anyone who would try to take it from you. Now, unfortunately, turrets have become no more than mediocre utility skills only used for their overcharge abilities before you blow them up. Land mines, or more generally, trap skills would be a great way to gain some of that fortress game play back, and they would compliment turrets well.

I've thought of some skills that would fit this theme. If implemented through a core engineer rework, land mines would provide engineer with a utility set that could be governed by the explosives specialization. Currently the only utility traits that explosives has are two kit traits that have been heavily scrutinized for being lackluster yet essential.

The Mines

Cluster Mine: Trap. Lay a trap that deals damage and scatters proximity mines in the area when triggered.

Rocket Mine: Trap. Lay a trap that launches heat seeking missiles at foes in the area when triggered.

Shatter Mine:Trap. Lay a trap that knocks foes back and removes boons.

Warp Mine: Trap. Place a module to mark the exit of your warp mine.

• Place Warp Mine: Trap. Lay a trap that teleports foes to your exit module when triggered. Allies may enter portal for only a short time after the trap is triggered.

Cluster Mine and Rocket Mine would provide passive dps and burst dps respectively. Shatter Mine would provide cc and boon strip, it would serve as a replacement for Throw Mine should mines be implemented through core since existing utility skills (elixir c, flame turret, throw mine, etc.) would likely need to be removed to make room for a new utility set. Warp mine would provide a new type of cc, opponent teleport.

The idea here is instead of waiting for someone to show up and assault your fortress, you could bring them there yourself. The skill would operate similar to mesmer portal where you set an entrance and exit, however it would likely have to obey pathing rules like shadow step to prevent trolling in WvW. A skill like this would help bring back the old bunker engineer play style, and could lead to some hilarious moments in WvW zerg fights while providing another fight mechanic to break up the stale pirate ship bubble meta.

Traits

Specialization: Explosives/New Elite Spec

Debilitating Mines: Trap. skills have reduced cool down and remove additional boons.

alternatively

Endothermic Mines: Trap. skills have increased radius an cause chilling.

Closing Remarks

I found designing a new utility set to be quite fun. I would love to see what other utilities the community can think of. To me, mines seem like the low hanging fruit for the engineer class. My preference would be to implement mines with a core engineer rework to fix the utility skills because I think they fit the explosives specialization rather well. Can you think of some good trap skills that could work for this set? How about some traits?

i'm gonna go with no

Too similar to bombs, imo.

I'd like to see mine do something more...it just feels like its taking up a slot that could be better used most of the time.

@derd.6413 said:i'm gonna go with no

Care to elaborate? I see you post this same comment on other threads, but you rarely provide anything to support your opinion. I can't tell if your trolling, or if you genuinely don't think Mines(Traps) would make a good utility set. A comment like this really adds nothing to the discussion. Take a note from Opopanax, they at least provide meaningful feedback.

@"Opopanax.1803" said:Too similar to bombs, imo.

I'd like to see mine do something more...it just feels like its taking up a slot that could be better used most of the time.

Fair point. Though I disagree with them being similar to bombs. Bomb kit is a defensive melee weapon that is only really effective if the enemy is either A. Standing Still or B. chasing you. You don't get the same "set up and defend" style game play with bombs, and mines would compliment turrets well.

It seems you would rather see mines implemented through an elite spec, say the demolitionist, where you have more freedom to make them into something more. What would you want to see them do?

Give it charges on utility belt and normal bar. Make one of the two a stunbreak. Done.

@Zex Anthon.8673 said:

@"derd.6413" said:i'm gonna go with no

my main issue is that there's no point to it, if you want your fortification engi back, it's better to rework/fix turrets rather then introduce a new skill type to engi. . the skills you've suggested are also underwhelming and bland:

• shatter mine is the current "throw mine"

• cluster Mine is the toolbelt skill of mine tweaked to fit the skill type

• rocket mine is just why? (why have a mine launch a heat seeking missile instead of just explode)

• the unique aspect of warp mine is more of a troll skill then anything usefull and other then that it's a delayed mesmer portal

the only thing i see happen because of your suggestions is that ppl will be pissed for deleting flamethrower and bunker engi will remain dead

To me, bombs is already the "trap" playstyle. AOE radiused damage that is placed point blank.

I think the "set up and defend" style that you are looking for would be better solved as re-working Turrets [like Derd suggests], which need more help than Mine.

If anything, I'd take mines and roll them into bomb kit to make it more powerful, which I feel bomb kit could use anyway. They play similar to bomb anyway.-Add boonstrip effect to concussion bomb.-Replace bomb 5 with minefield. Roll some/all of glue bomb into smoke bomb (rename shock bomb).

@derd.6413 said:

@Zex Anthon.8673 said:

@derd.6413 said:i'm gonna go with no

• shatter mine is the current "throw mine"

• Shatter Mine is the mine is the toolbelt skill of mine tweaked to fit the skill type

• rocket mine is just why? (why have a mine launch a heat seeking missile instead of just explode)

• the unique aspect of warp mine is more of a troll skill then anything usefull and other then that it's a delayed mesmer portal

Thank you for providing valid criticism instead of just saying "um no". It might be better to rework/fix turrets, but I see no reason why you couldn't add a utility set for more skill variety in conjunction with a turret fix. You say the skills I suggest are underwhelming and bland, thats fine, I'm not a game designer and I'm sure someone else could come up with more interesting skills, but I can give you my reasoning for choosing these skills.

Shatter mine and cluster mine were chosen to provide replacements for throw mine should something like this be implemented for core engineer. Of course, if mines were introduced in an elite spec, then these skills would be nixed for something else. I designed the skills to follow the theme of the explosives trait line. Cluster mines would provide passive dps, while rocket mine is more bursty.

I added rockets because having a mine "just explode" would be underwhelming and bland. Additionally, the reason I chose rockets is to provide some counter play. Having the burst tied to a projectile that can be dodged, blocked, or reflected, means the damage can be made much higher than if it "just explodes", making it feel like an actual burst skill.

I admit the warp mine is quite gimmicky, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it useless. For PvP it can be used to drag opponents out of a fight to break up the enemy team more, it can be used to pull someone to an area where you have already set up with mines and turrets, and it can be used to provide defense against someone trying to back cap. In WvW it can be used to split up a zerg and transport them into a bubble. Mesmer portal only affects allies, and can ignore pathing rules. Warp mine would affect enemies, obey pathing rules, and can only be triggered by an enemy. The two skills are very different.

Who said anything about deleting flamethrower? I don't think you have enough evidence to claim bunker engi would remain dead. What is certain is bunker engi would remain dead if nothing changes.

@Zex Anthon.8673 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Zex Anthon.8673 said:

@derd.6413 said:i'm gonna go with no

• shatter mine is the current "throw mine"

• Shatter Mine is the mine is the toolbelt skill of mine tweaked to fit the skill type

• rocket mine is just why? (why have a mine launch a heat seeking missile instead of just explode)

• the unique aspect of warp mine is more of a troll skill then anything usefull and other then that it's a delayed mesmer portal

except you didn't make a unique and interesting mine skill, you've made a mine skill with extra unnecessary steps to it (instead of "trigger>explosion" it's

"trigger>launch projectile>explosion")

I admit the warp mine is quite gimmicky, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it useless. For PvP it can be used to drag opponents out of a fight to break up the enemy team more, it can be used to pull someone to an area where you have already set up with mines and turrets, and it can be used to provide defense against someone trying to back cap. In WvW it can be used to split up a zerg and transport them into a bubble. Mesmer portal only affects allies, and can ignore pathing rules. Warp mine would affect enemies, obey pathing rules, and can only be triggered by an enemy. The two skills are very different.

Who said anything about deleting flamethrower? I don't think you have enough evidence to claim bunker engi would remain dead. What is certain is bunker engi would remain dead if nothing changes.

you did:Cluster Mine and Rocket Mine would provide passive dps and burst dps respectively. Shatter Mine would provide cc and boon strip, it would serve as a replacement for Throw Mine should mines be implemented through core since existing utility skills (elixir c, flame turret, throw mine, etc.) would likely need to be removed to make room for a new utility set.

@derd.6413 said:

Who said anything about deleting flamethrower? I don't think you have enough evidence to claim bunker engi would remain dead. What is certain is bunker engi would remain dead if nothing changes.

you did:Cluster Mine and Rocket Mine would provide passive dps and burst dps respectively. Shatter Mine would provide cc and boon strip, it would serve as a replacement for Throw Mine should mines be implemented through core since existing utility skills (elixir c,

flame turret

, throw mine, etc.) would likely need to

be removed

to make room for a new utility set.

Flamethrower and flame turret are two completely different skills.

@Zex Anthon.8673 said:

@derd.6413 said:

Who said anything about deleting flamethrower? I don't think you have enough evidence to claim bunker engi would remain dead. What is certain is bunker engi would remain dead if nothing changes.

you did:Cluster Mine and Rocket Mine would provide passive dps and burst dps respectively. Shatter Mine would provide cc and boon strip, it would serve as a replacement for Throw Mine should mines be implemented through core since existing utility skills (elixir c,

flame turret

, throw mine, etc.) would likely need to

be removed

to make room for a new utility set.

a misread oops

@derd.6413 said:

Flamethrower and flame turret are two completely different skills.

No problem it happens. :)

But your points still holds, adding another utility set to core would be extra work and would require removal of one kit/migration of kits altogether, and you may think its unnecessary, but I think having the extra variety in skills along with the traits could help core engi a lot. Additionally, with the announcement that LWS5 will be directly after LWS4, right now is a prime time for reworks.

Grenade kit and bomb kit could be combined to demolition kit to free up the space. I suggested removing elixir c because one time condition removal on a 40s CD doesn't really hold in the current meta. I suggested removing flame turret because being close range means it likely gets destroyed before it can be of any use, and the overcharge is made redundant by skills in 4 kits, though the smoke field is nice and you could make the argument that rocket and rifle turret could be merged since they serve the same purpose.