Transfer is a p2w option, do you agree?

It just suddenly crossed my mind.

I remember that in f2p games that focus on pvp, transfer scroll is something that not available all the time in item shop. Simply because it is very easy to break the power balance between fractions the moment it become available and there are quite a few mmo that die off right after a few months they added it, simply because majority went and stack on the strongest fraction thus eliminating any forms of meaningful competition.

P2w by my definition which shared by many other mmo players is as simple as "as long as you can obtain any forms of advantage over other players through monetary means, it is p2w".through that defintion, gw2 indeed is p2w but due to its low gear cap, it is not a wealth vs wealth level p2w. however, can that be said for transfer since if a person want to, he can spend thousands just to move people.

You're gonna get disagreement with that definition but yes I agree with the definition and your characterization of transfers.

Though hard to say the server you transfer to won't have an exodus.

But if you choose a server with the right coverage, then yes, it's paying to go to a winning server.

Again, another reason to not have increased rewards for 'winning'

It will become irrelevant in the future anyway, with the Alliances system coming into play whenever it does servers will no longer be a thing in the game.

Also keep in mind, this has been something that has been on the game pretty much since it released back in 2012, to imply that it is pay to win or has become pay to win simply because people "consolidated power" holds no bearing on their own individual performance in the game and isn't making them win. What personal advantage are they gaining by transferring servers exactly? I think you're stretching the definition rather thin in this circumstance. You can transfer 100 people onto a tier 1 server yet those 100 people could still get run over in 3 seconds in a fight or be next to useless in roaming circumstances.

People like to really stretch the most commonly perceived definition of pay to win to almost anything, personally I see pay to win as the literal translation of that phrase because that is exactly where it is derived from; literally paying to win (several MMORPGs in the past had ingame markets where you could directly buy gear more powerful than any gear you could acquire through gameplay). However like most phrases and such it has become misused and abused by the general public as a generic excuse for why they lost. Does it hold some accuracy in certain situations even with recent MMORPGs? Sure, but not with every scenario that its used in, not by a mile.

What exactly do you "win"? The carry?

Pay to win a couple of extra bouncy chests during two rank-ups and a false sense of accomplishment when placing first. Sounds like a steal!

I agree with this assessment.

That is unfortunately the mentality of winning some have though. It's like when people alt-f4 so you don't get the stomp. They think they are winning too. Many people have weird ways to make themselves feel like they are winning.

It's a psychic reward more than a material one but there are some distinct material advantages to being on a winning server particularly if they're k training a lot and running over most of the fights. It all adds up over time.

@"SkyShroud.2865" said:P2w by my definition which shared by many other mmo players is as simple as "as long as you can obtain any forms of advantage over other players through monetary means, it is p2w".through that defintion, gw2 indeed is p2w but due to its low gear cap, it is not a wealth vs wealth level p2w. however, can that be said for transfer since if a person want to, he can spend thousands just to move people.Then by that definition buying the game is already p2w and any subsequent aspects you consider p2w are a moot point, the condition have already been met. This is further proven by the fact that you cannot buy the game for anything but real cash, unlike transfers and everything on the TP that you can buy for gold converted to gems.

Disagree with your definition but would agree with your conclusion if there was anything to win . . .

what is there to win in doing it?

also consider that transfering to a stronger server also means you'll be up against stronger servers.

I have to say after being in tiers 3 and 4 the last several months, being linked now with a tier 2 server feels like a “win”. More people to help defend, kill,capture. The game is just a lot more fun again. So I can see why people pay to transfer to a higher pop server. The “rewards” are less frustration, more fun, less yelling/arguing/blaming between teammates. The game is just a lot more enjoyable. I didn’t have to pay to win but would consider it if we get linked next with another tier 3 or 4 server.

@"SkyShroud.2865" said:.... since if a person want to, he can spend thousands just to move people.

Op is about "spend thousands" to move many players away from one's competition and possibly to one's own server if it is open.

How could this be done?

By talking to Guild leaders and moving whole guilds away from some servers.

This is probably what Op's winning strategy means by "spending thousands just to move people."

Maybe ETOM could not be manipulated like this,

But if ETOM is active, then Anet would lose "thousands" in transfer fees and other incentives that would be spent by willing players with large wallets.

Players could use these opportunities to support Anet by being agreeable with any approach of offers to transfer.

Through transferring, players are supporting Anet financially even if others are paying for it.

I agree with you up to an extent. However I think the only people who see xfering to a more populated server and going up in tier as winning these days are those who have yet to play long enough to realize that winning a matchup is empty and pointless except in that it plays a part in determining who you roll as opponents next week.

Nah. It's not pay to win. Even if it were, since you could buy a transfer with gold, you can play to get the gold to pay for the transfer, thus not paying real cash. Plenty of people farm gold efficiently to buy gems and never spend a cent on gems.

That said, pay to win usually refers to power. That is to say your character itself is more powerful by something you buy in the cash shop. But I don't think this is any definition of pay to win I've ever heard.

The tendency of this community to stretch the definition of pay to win further and further devalues the term and makes it less useful.

As an individual player you gain no advantage over any other individual player by transferring servers. In addition, the rewards are the same per unit of time invested -- in other words you don't get anything faster than players that didn't pay to transfer.

In some ways, transferring to a "winning" server is a disadvantage because you have to fight queues to play and you're less likely to be on a "outnumbered" map.

Is "pay to lose" a thing?

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"SkyShroud.2865" said:P2w by my definition which shared by many other mmo players is as simple as "as long as you can obtain any forms of advantage over other players through monetary means, it is p2w".through that defintion, gw2 indeed is p2w but due to its low gear cap, it is not a wealth vs wealth level p2w. however, can that be said for transfer since if a person want to, he can spend thousands just to move people.Then by that definition buying the game is already p2w and any subsequent aspects you consider p2w are a moot point, the condition have already been met. This is further proven by the fact that you cannot buy the game for anything but real cash, unlike transfers and everything on the TP that you can buy for gold converted to gems.

Elite specs included in expansions and only available to those who buy the xpac would be a mild form of p2w for sure. I disagree that any other p2w is moot however, as this topic can be discussed in terms of degree, and not whether it is or isnt.

Definitions are descriptive not prescriptive. The meanings of words can change over time as people use them in different ways. It may be that at one point p2w had a much more narrow usage but I tend to agree with the OP's more modern usage as it's the way I have come to personally use the term and the way I hear the people I play with use the term. Any competitive advantage of any form that can be purchased with real money in any way is what is more and more being called p2w. I think paid transfers certainly fall into that category.

@SoV.5139 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"SkyShroud.2865" said:P2w by my definition which shared by many other mmo players is as simple as "as long as you can obtain any forms of advantage over other players through monetary means, it is p2w".through that defintion, gw2 indeed is p2w but due to its low gear cap, it is not a wealth vs wealth level p2w. however, can that be said for transfer since if a person want to, he can spend thousands just to move people.Then by that definition buying the game is already p2w and any subsequent aspects you consider p2w are a moot point, the condition have already been met. This is further proven by the fact that you cannot buy the game for anything but real cash, unlike transfers and everything on the TP that you can buy for gold converted to gems.

Transfers is much tamer because you're not going to pay to win anything - you're just gonna pay. Servers are like lava lamps, going up is a sure way to go down. Mission accomplished on Anets part.

Anybody remember tournament season 1?

Yes.

More words for minimum post size requirements.

When you can just use a moderate amount of ingame gold to transfer I'm not sure it qualifies as p2w.

The only thing you gain is a few extra WvW ranks. Rank chests, lord loot and heavy bags gained are a wash as you are spending gems to transfer. Afaik most everything else is tied to the participation system which doesn't care if you are winning or losing so long as you do something every few minutes.

Monetary means as in real currency, not gems which can also be earned in game with gold which everyone has access to.About the only p2w you could consider in gw2 is buying the expansions for the new overpowered specs in pvp, over others who don't get it but they all still have to play in the same player pools.

p2w is a term used for when players are allowed to drop real money to either be able to stay competitive or bypass content that would take a long time to do it.

p2p (pay to play) is differentiated from p2w as it's either 1 time pay or a periodical subscription to have access to 100% to the content available. Items that can be obtained through the same procedures of p2w but that lack the winning aspect by not providing necessary advantage is also considered p2p. Examples can be account keys, expansions, DLCs (when they aren't specific boosted items), cosmetic items (when cosmetic isn't rewarded)...

A transfer to a server that allows you to play the same content and that can be payed by normal gold income cannot be considered p2w. HoT and PoF are p2p and not p2w. Boosters, however, are an example of p2w in gw2 , but at the same time they can be considered as soft-p2w, their benefits are mild at best.

When will people stop gambling with the meaning of the words trying to find answers that justify their nonsense... It's the same situation with the other guy desperately catering downstate as a handicapping mechanic, when the implementation of downstate already negates very basic definition of itself.